Yamaha 657 vs Marantz 4500 vs your sugestion
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New member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 | This is my first post so I want to greet everyone around this forum. I've been reading much of the heated and sometimes enjoyable debate between Edster (I still can't figure if he has any vested interest in panasonic propably has stock :-)) vs Art (owner of a 657) and others concerning the panasonic xr55, but its not easy to get one here in Greece. I would like to hear your opinion on Yamaha 657 vs Marantz 4500 based on the fact that I will listen primarily to music, still I want the movie sound reproduction to be on par or close enough. Good speakers will be purchased later...(I own 2x30W Philips -1970s- and 2x60W Technics mini hifi 1990s speakers). So I want an AV receiver that will become a good foundation for my audio system expansion. My source is going to be an HTPC with TOSLINK or COAX digital output. PS Is there a stereo reciever/amp in the same amount of money -or close- as these two that will give me significant better music reprodusction? If so how can I solve the DAC/surround format decoding without paying too much more? |
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milagro Unregistered guest | Any receiver that does music well will almost by definition do HT well, so I'd choose based on which of those two you prefer more for music. The Yamaha is said to be more neutral, and the Marantz more "warm." I would wait until you figure out which speakers you want to get, because you don't want to match "warm" speakers with a "warm" receiver whereas "bright" will be better balanced with a "warm" receiver and "neutral" speakers could go with either. Unfortunately "neutral" speakers are not so easy to find as the other two in my experience. |
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New member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 2 Registered: Feb-06 | ok milagro if I follow your logic marantz 4500 would be better suited than yamaha with eg Klipsch RF-15 or RF-20 speakers? Are there cheap good hybrid panels that would sound good and be driven sufficiently by the yamaha or marantz (less than 1000 euro per pair price range)? |
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milagro Unregistered guest | exactly, the Marantz would be the much safer bet with those Klipsch speakers. Don't know anything about hybrid panels but 1000 euro seems a bit too low. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2808 Registered: Feb-05 | For a little more money there is the Outlaw RR2150 which is the first place I would look if I were in the market for an affordable stereo receiver. Remember I used my Yamaha receiver as a processor and power only for the rears. I no longer do HT but I kept that Yamaha as an AM/FM/XM tuner and it does a great job with that. I now listen to my movies in stereo. For all but the blockbuster action movies it's fine. Someday I'll convert my garage into a HT but for me music is first. As for your question about Marantz vs Yamaha. For music neither is particularly satisfying, that's why I suggest the Outlaw. If you must have an AVR consider spending a little more on the Outlaw AVR. As for your PS question, anytime you start separating out the functions you will invariably spend more money. I would consider how important the processing function is to you before proceeding. |
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New member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 3 Registered: Feb-06 | Art I do not think that I will be able to find Outlaw here in Greece/Europe. (Even if I find it somewhere online it would be too expensive including transfer fees). So I am open to other stereo sugestions... If you had to chose between Yamaha 657 and Marantz 4500 then which one? I need a good DAC outside my HTPC (source) that is why I leaned towards the AVRs. They can handle both the DACs +all the digital format decoding +HT multi speaker driving for the price. Are there good stereo amps with toslink input and good DACs? Finally what is the panasonic adopters take on those Yamaha, Marantz models? Do they feel that both these AVRs are much worse musically than the panasonic model? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2811 Registered: Feb-05 | Between those 2 I would choose the Yamaha for it's fexibility. They are both decent entry level AVR's. The Yamaha needs efficient speakers to be at their best. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3641 Registered: Mar-05 | > Finally what is the panasonic adopters take on those Yamaha, Marantz models? Do they feel that both these AVRs are much worse musically than the panasonic model? I would not recommend the Panny with your Klipsch speakers for music listening, as much as I like it. I would agree with Milagro and err on the side of caution by going with the Marantz. However with efficient and *neutral or warm* 8 ohm speakers I would choose the Panny over those 2 by a long shot. |
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New member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 4 Registered: Feb-06 | I do not own klipsch speakers I was just considering them. "However with efficient and *neutral or warm* 8 ohm speakers I would choose the Panny over those 2 by a long shot." Why is that, more power, better music reproduction, less distortion, more clarity? I am trying to establish where the panny outclasses them, since I like the all digital idea, but there is so much controversy. So if all three of them were matched with the "right" speaker (in the under 1000 euro per pair category), would the panny come out clearly on top??? I want some arguments from both sides of the fence. Finally noone seems to have any info on cheap panels or Stereo amps with digital inputs. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3646 Registered: Mar-05 | Far superior clarity, smoothness, and power, at least on my speakers/system/room. People who dislike the Panny usually claim that the treble is harsh and the midrange/vocals sound unnatural. I have never experienced this, but the speakers/source/room combination have a lot to do with it too. For a more balanced view of this receiver, I suggest doing a search for it on AVS Forums. Don't know if you can do this in Greece, but I'd ask for a home audition to make sure. |
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New member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 5 Registered: Feb-06 | If I add a stereo amp, or two mono apms for the front LR channels in Yamaha's Pre Outs will the YPAO 7.1 speaker adjustment work correctly? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2815 Registered: Feb-05 | Yes it will George. I used 2 external amps with it one for my fronts and another for the center. The mono block that I used for the center was not necessary but just for fun. YPAO worked with external amps. Unlike the reviewers I liked it best without the YPAO, my wife liked it better with. |
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New member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 6 Registered: Feb-06 | http://www.digit-life.com/articles/siroccopro/index.html This is what I believe to be a disconitnued product. Has anyone heard something similar? Are studio monitor speaker solutions good for hi-fi music listening? Has anyone compared similar systems with the receivers/speaker combinations we were discussing in this thread? |
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Bronze Member Username: StevizardIndianapolis, Indiana USA Post Number: 28 Registered: Aug-05 | George, Comparing the Marantz to a Panasonic is like comparing a mountain lion to a kitten. There's really not much of a comparison. Panasonic, RCA, GE, Sylvania, LG, Bose, Sony, and dare I say "Yamaha", are all about in the same basket - they're kittens. They mass produce products using the least expensive methods and parts they can find. Ok, so maybe Yamaha is a bigger kitten. But Marantz, Sherwood, Denon, Onkyo, Harman Kardon, etc. are on a whole other, higher level (IMHO). If my choice was between a Marantz and a Panasonic, it wouldn't take a millisecond to decide in favor of the Marantz. The Harmon Kardon below is right up your alley . . . smooth, warm tone.  |
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New member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 7 Registered: Feb-06 | Stevizard I am talking about entry level receivers here and I am trying to find a hidden shortcut to a higher price category (receiver wise). Someone stated -I think around this forum- that the 4500 was the weak link of the marantz receiver series... So it could be that marantz went even lower quality wise in order to be able to compete with the more mass producers in this price range. This is exactly why I am asking people with first hand experience and good speaker setups with the specific models. I do not think I am going to be able to audition these cheap models properly by myself in shops, so my whole approach involves a lot of guesswork... |
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New member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 8 Registered: Feb-06 | HKs are much more expensive here in Greece... |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3655 Registered: Mar-05 | George in that case I'd try the Marantz over the HK. In my experience with Marantz, their really good stuff starts with the 7*000 and 8*000 series. My digital Panny, which cost 1/3 as much, ate my Marantz 5400 for lunch. LOL |
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New member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 9 Registered: Feb-06 | Ok I am terribly confused just put 1,2,3 on these three models based on their music reproduction ONLY and a percentage of "betterness" if able to do so (assume matched speakers). Thanx in advance to those who will participate in my survey; any further clarifying comment is welcome... -. Yamaha 657 -. Marantz 4500 -. Panasonic XR 55 |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2819 Registered: Feb-05 | Per 2 Marantz dealers that I know the service issues with Marantz start with 7000 and 8000 series receivers. I gave the Panasonic a couple of listens and one longer critical listen and found it to be one of the worst sounding audio components I've ever heard. I compared it directly with a Harman Kardon receiver and everyone present could not believe how much better the HK was. The power supply in the Yamaha is miniscule but sounds good with very efficient speakers. With Marantz I would only recommend the 5000 series that is where that brand represents a good value. Stevizard, I would look at pulling Onkyo from your hot list. Yamaha RX-V receivers outperform them in all of the meaningful ways. Other than that I agree with you. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3656 Registered: Mar-05 | George what are the return policies in Greece like? If they allow you to return for a refund I'd do a home demo of at least 2 of those 3 receivers, your ears should be the final judge not random subjective opinions in cyberspace. |
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New member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 10 Registered: Feb-06 | This is a last minute contestant -350Euros in Greece- thanx to a Stevizard recomendation on an another thread (for a stereo receiver?!). The Sherwood R756R (does anyone know what the last R stands for?) This is a very interesting case, because this receiver has the digital nature of the panasonic, but includes pre outs in case it becomes insufficient when I upgrade my speakers. So what are the differences between the sherwood and the panny? Is it an all digital solution, enough power etc? I do not care about the 7 instead of 5 channels... nor about connections etc just the music quality part. |
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Bronze Member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 11 Registered: Feb-06 | Ed I would like to narrow it down to 2 models, but even then it would not be easy to order both return/refund etc... (Panasonic/Sherwood no chance returning them) |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3657 Registered: Mar-05 | The Sherwood is digital switching? I find that hard to believe considering how big it is. The website also does not mention it being digital switching. http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_r756.html If you cannot return the Sherwood or the Panasonic then I'd choose between the Yamaha and the Marantz if you can home audition them against each other. |
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Bronze Member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 12 Registered: Feb-06 | Ed you are propably right I was misled by the greek ad stating the 756 as a digital amp... But in their site only the Sherwood R-903 is specifically stated to be digital... So out goes the 756 (an older model anyway) |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3662 Registered: Mar-05 | http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_r903.html# geez, $600 MSRP and has spring clips! I'd be curious to hear it though. |
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Bronze Member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 15 Registered: Feb-06 | A strange routing question for Panasonic xr55, Marantz 4500 and Yamaha 657. - If I want to use 4 front speakers LR1 and LR2 using 2 channel analog or digital (44, 48, 96Khz) input. - Will I be able to control the volume independently for LR1 and LR2 (eg 30% less in LR2)? - Will I be able to use the pure direct mode in such a scheme? - Will I have to use the multizone or the surround speaker terminals of those receivers to connect the LR2 speakers? - Is my intended topology the same as multi channel stereo supported by the receivers, or do they alter the signal that goes to the surround speakers? - Which of the three receivers gives me the best flexibility in this scenario? |
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John Wagner Unregistered guest | I ordered a Outlaw RR2150 Stereo receiver today but I will not get it until 3 to 4 weeks from now. It might be even longer than that after the review comes out on this receiver in Stereophile magazine in March! |
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Bronze Member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 16 Registered: Feb-06 | Anyone that has tried/knows connecting four front speakers to a receiver?! I asked with more detail in my previous post but no answers... |
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Bronze Member Username: JethroLansing, Mi Post Number: 28 Registered: Jan-06 | buying a receiver first T_T. marantz good warm sound that won't fatigue your ears. but if u buy a receiver first you'll need to find speakers that sound well with em... imo if u get the speakers first it will be a much easier fit to find a receiver to match. but, i don't understand when ppl look for a receiver as a foundation to sound. find a speaker u like as a foundation for ur sound then pick the receiver or separates w/e to compliment em. b&w a neutral speaker that will sound great in my opinion with most receivers. try the 600 series out i think u cannot go wrong with em in there price range. listen for urself. later |
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Bronze Member Username: StridergtAthensGreec e Post Number: 22 Registered: Feb-06 | Well jeff ur much more sound approach -speakers first- would ruin my budget right now :-( BTW since listening to all these stuff opens up the appetite... Has anyone listened to the Martin Logan Mosaic, can they be driven by entry level receivers? |
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