Buy this amplifier
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7332 Registered: May-04 | For the money spent, you cannot get a better education in audio. http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e.html http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3 |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 303 Registered: Jan-05 | What did you learn from this? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7337 Registered: May-04 | It's not what I learned, it's what I heard. But, that's how I usually take on a new piece of equipment. There are questions to be asked about what I'm hearing and lessons to be learned about how it all fits tigether to reproduce music. (Honestly, not to sound like I know it all, but there aren't too many things I think I'll learn from this amplifier. I've heard them all before but the price tag for that lesson was in the five figure mark. One of the absolutely "jaw dropping" [and I don't think you've seen me use that word before for my own experience] aspects of this amp's abilities was that my room was disappeared while I listened to the amp over the first hour and the recording venue of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue [a great article on this album appears in this month's Stereophile] just materialized. Instruments were outside my side window and coming from what had been my closet. It is this kind of education in both audio and music making [the interplay of the musicians is well served] that this amp will provide to anyone who hasn't yet been able to spend long periods with mega buck equipment.) I don't have time for a detailed description here. I have a concert to go to this afternoon and that trumps hifi anytime. Also, I only have a few hours (I was up till 5AM listening) and the suggestion is to log about 100 hours before hearing what the amp can really do. Additionally I was using batteries and a dedicated, though equally inexpensive power supply, is suggested. So I've got more to do before I can make any "definitive" statements. Read the reviews (http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=sonic%20t%20amplifier) to find out what is going on with this amp. They are all essentially dead on what I heard last night. I can't remember an audio product where all the reviews I've seen have been so equal in praise and fault finding. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 304 Registered: Jan-05 | Damn....jaw dropping. I have not heard you use that before. Did you get the one with the plastic case or the "audiophile" case? Not, that I'm worried about aesthetics or anything like that. Now, I am intrigued. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 305 Registered: Jan-05 | What speaker and source did you pair with the amp? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7338 Registered: May-04 | https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/193045.html |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7339 Registered: May-04 | I bought the $25 amp (I figured it couldn't be as good as the reviews and didn't want to invest much at this point) off Amazon with about $7 s&h. $6.99 for a 24 pack of alkaline batteries to begin (the amp takes 8 at a time) and then I had to scronge through my cables to find the pieces that would fit. I happened to have a Monster cable RCA to mini plug cable from when I owned the "audiophile cheapskate" Radio Shack CD player mentioned in the article. I needed a female to female connector to get the cables from the Denon to mate with the Monster adapter. I have some 20 year old Kimber 8TC speaker cables that I pared down until they fit in the spring clip speaker outputs on the back of the amp. The Denon 2900 went directly into the amp at first and I used a pair of 4-5 year old, $200 retail KEF Crestas since they are the most efficient speaker I own. I've always liked these speakers but they were $200 retail. They are about the same size as the LS3/5a's but ported as is the fashion today and a simple 8 Ohm load. What I heard from that system astounded me as the music played. By one quarter of the way through the CD I was hearing my room morph into another space. The amp has about 6-8 watts into an 8 Ohm load but the 88dB KEF's did fine with the Miles Davis. (http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=kef%20cresta%201) Detail was present but not in my face and the sense of PRaT was excellent though not distracting. Instruments sounded real and mostly lacked some roundness and three dimensionality to be top notch. And this is through $200 speakers. Timbre was exceptional for the speakers being used. Bass was full, tight (to my estimation, at least) and woody when needed but obviously not able to descend beyond about 45-50Hz. The amp was a little muted in dynamics so I turned the volume control all the way up to essentially take it out of the circuit. Then the Denon went back into the Mac 6200's pre amp and the pre out fed the Sonic T. This gave a jump in clarity and dynamics at the expense of (what I considered too much false) warmth. The soundstage narrowed by about 0.001% but instruments gained some three dimensionality. Individual strings on an acoustic guitar where more easily defined. The next selection on the Denon/KEF's was a collection of Bernard Hermann soundtracks. Hermann used odd stage setups and very odd instruments to portray the characters in the films he scored. The amp strained occasionally when things got big and complex. This amp doesn't clip like tubes or solid state; just as the reviews indicate. It kind of pharts and throws aluminum spit balls at you when it reaches its limits. Next came the NSM 5S speakers, an upgraded version of the 5 that I was told probably won't be put back in production due to costs (it uses a Morel tweeter) and the effect on sales of the more expensive speakers in the line. (http://www.nsmaudio.com/brochures/5broc.html) Now we're down to 85dB but still a solid 8 Ohm load. With only about 8 watts, the difference of 3db sensitivity was easily noticeable. Brothers in Arms found the amp at its limits one more than one accasion at a volume I could easily accept but not everyone would prefer to have as their limit. When I got back from the concert today I hooked up the 3/5a's with my OCOS speaker cable. With Ray Brown playing jazz the 83dB Rogers are surprisingly loud. Not loud loud, but comfortable. My Rogers are the old style with 15 Ohm load and the 3/5a has been known to take on amplifiers much larger than itself and come away the winner. The crossover in the old style 3/5a is complex with lots of small notch filters to bring the frequency response in line and can be difficult to drive. But the speaker has a very simple impedance load overall and it has long been considered one of the most tube friendly speakers ever made just for that reason. So, though the amp is now operating at only a few watts into a 15 Ohm load, the Rogers are listenable. I'm not taking the Rogers and the T amp to the beach party but they seem happy with one another. Next I'll hook up my VPI turntable to the Audible Illusions pre amp and run it into the T amp. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7361 Registered: May-04 | Still running as described above; through the 6200 pre amp and using the T amp as a power amp only. I've put about 50 hours on the amp so far (I went back to the more efficient $200 KEFs to get a bit more volume from some CD's I wanted to listen to last night) and spent too much of that time listening to the music and the system. I'm still running off the same set of batteries that I began with, so battery life is quite good. The sound has improved over what was a very high level to begin with. The sound stage is more expansive and the ability to remove my listening room from the equation seems to be a simple task for the T amp. The amp is slightly quicker and smoother than at first though there was never any problem in that area. I would agree with the reviews that the T amp has the sound of an excellent digital source. If it fails at anything of importance to me (so far) it is the slightly less than "analog" sound it produces. With the other things the amp does well and given that most people are very much used to both digital and solid state sound, this could hardly be called a flaw in the design. It betters the Mac tubes in the area of silence (and I thought they were dead quiet until now) and that in turn gets many other things in music reproduction correct. It lacks the ability of the Macs to totally engage me in the music to the last degree but I am so astounded at what I'm hearing in the ability to sit back and hear fatique free music from anything other than tubes that this amp is still fascinating me every time I listen to a new piece of music. |
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Bronze Member Username: SubiedriverPost Number: 68 Registered: Apr-05 | Agree with you Jan. I own 2 of the cheapo plastic case models and recently got the newer "audiophile" version -- same chip but a nicer case made of metal. Am using the metal case amp in my office on my desktop driving an old pair of KEF K Series speakers, using Mac Mini as a source. Very very nice sound. People who visit are kind of taken aback. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 309 Registered: Jan-05 | I ordered the $30 T-amp from Parts Express yesterday. Initially, I'll pair it with Monitor Audio GR10's but I may look into trying out a more efficient speaker, specifically, the Omega Super 3. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7369 Registered: May-04 | Let us know what you hear, SM. I changed out the initial set of alkaline batteries last night. They lasted approx. 60 hours, so that indicates a battery life at least 5 times what Sonic Impact suggests. New batteries restored some "oomph" in the amp and some dynamic ability. I've been shopping around for a power supply and found them very difficult to locate. Going with the suggestion that the amp should run between 12 and 13.8 volts DC with a 3-5 amp capacity, I found no one in the 7th largest city in the US had anything available that would suit my needs. (Caution should be taken with the Radio Shack DC supplies; take in a multi meter before making a purchase as the model labeled 12VDC, 3 amp will actually output about 15 volts. This will undoubtedly affect the lifespan of the unit as this far exceeds the voltage span allowed by Sonic Impact in their spec sheet for the chipset. The Radio Shack 13.8 regulated supply also comes in at slightly over 14 VDC so it is still a bit too high when 12 volts is the target. Jumping the voltage to 13 volts is the equivalent of running a conventional amp at 130 volts and will gain you a small blip in wattage while stressing the circuit just a bit since there is no heat sink on the chip.) Smaller amperage adapters were available but I wanted to stay at more than 1 amp minimum. I doubt this chipset has a need for very much current and playing the stiffer is better route is a hold over from the idea of excellent sounding amplifiers that have to weigh the same as a compact car. Obviously this amplifier blows away all those concepts and I wonder just what the effect of higher amperage will be on the sound. I have a 12VDC, 0.50 amp supply that I will swap out as I try to figure out any differences in power supplies. I ordered the 13.5 VDC, 3 amp wall wart from Parts Express and that should be here in a few days. (I'll take care to measure the actual voltage of both adapters before making the connection.) I also have some rechargeable NiMH AA's that I'll try in place of the AC/DC adapters. For now I've ruled out a sealed lead acid battery since I don't think the additional amperage over the rechargeables or wall wart is going to be of any great advantage. The SLA also would necessiate arrangements for a different charger and an outboard box for the supply or replacing the entire box for the amp and PS. I have always been told, however, that a battery supply is the best for audio since there is not AC ripple that can come through the system. Some reviews indicate not using a battery supply while others advocate the SLA route. The sound continues to be top notch. For someone used to the sound of tubes (me), it might lack a bit of the "warmth" that tubes can produce. Not warmth in the sense of frequency extension or bloat or emphasis on certain midrange sounds, but warmth in, once again, an analog (read not "digital") type of reproduction. I hooked the Audible Illusions tube pre amp into the T amp last night. (An adventure that broke a twenty year old solder joint in an interconnect and became much more of a task than I had wanted just before a dinner engagement.) The introduction of the tubes into the signal path between the Denon 2900 and the T amp made another level of immersion in the sound possible. The music is more involving with the AI though still not to the level I enjoy with the McIntosh tube amps in the system. Replacing the involvement of the Mac tubes though is the quiet of the T amp and all that brings with it. Additionally, I'm still using the 88dB KEF's and finding it difficult to both believe the sound they are allowing through and knowing just what are the limitations of these inexpensive speakers that are producing such a wonderful soundstage and timing. I have to listen more through the 3/5a's to determine how more closely matched speaker components will benefit the three dimensionality of the soundstge. That is, at this point, another area where the tubes and Rogers do a better job than the T amp and the $200 KEF's. Possibly the different power supplies will produce results that will further change my opinion of the T amp. The reviews indicate that should happen and they have proven true to this point. However, the excellent sound this flea watt, plastic cased amplifier produces in stock, alkaline battery driven form makes me wonder just what effects the modifications to the basic amp will produce other than making someone believe they no longer are listening to less than $50 worth of amplification. I can see stiffening the power supply as it comes into the amp though battery power would eliminate the need for a smoothing cap. And I can see where a cap on the signal inputs could help the bass response of the amp. Beyond that, I'm sceptical of most other changes that would do anything other than facilitate the hook up of the amp using more typical connectors and cables. I don't envision this amp having much reaction to audiophile speaker cables and can only image chunky binding posts and "decent" cables being more for convenience and function rather than icing on the cake. I think if or when I change the amp's connectors a pair of nice barrier strips would be more productive than fancy binding posts. HG - Have you put the "audiophile approved" version up against the basic amp to listen for the benefits of the added $100? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7370 Registered: May-04 | SM - You might want to contact Timn8ter before jumping on the Omega bandwagon. While the Omega's have been receiving good reviews, as I discussed with Rick Barnes on the Tube Talk thread, they seem to be asking an awful lot of money for what amounts to a single Fostex driver and a bit of a signal shaping circuit in a cabinet. I think there are probably better values available using the same Fostex drivers and what needs to be done to the driver to smooth its response is no secret among the DIY crowd. I agree a more sensitive speaker will benefit the T amp and this was as much my reason for purchasing the T amp as it was just out of curiousity. Due to what I have to work with and the volume levels I really use, none of my current amps (that I prefer) would have worked well with a 97dB speaker in the system. So the T amp is my route to eventually trying a SET tube amp. The Fostex and the Tangband full range drivers have been met with quite a bit of interest in the SDFR DIY bunch. When things get sorted out, I'll do some investigation into what I want to do with speakers. As for now, the 88dB KEF's will almost always suit my needs for volume and will provide better sound than a pair of off the Best Buy shelf Klipsch or JBL's. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 310 Registered: Jan-05 | Thanks, Jan. Great info all around. I'm looking forward to experiencing the T-Amp. Reading your enthusiasm and reading another person's plan to sell his MA6900 (!) in favor of the T-Amp has certainly piqued my interest in this. For $30, it isn't much of a risk to try out, eh.  Surely, my MA6200 has nothing to fear? Timn8ter's speakers are definitely an intriguing possibility. However, their sensitivity rating is less than the MA's I have. Plus, I'm interested in hearing what single driver speakers are all about. Initially, the MA's will be the speaker I'll pair with it but I do hope to find a used pair of Omega's at some point. In regards to the power supply issue, that is part of the upgrade RedWine does with their Clari-T amps; they use an SLA battery. These amps are built using audiophile parts (don't know whether the internals are $300 superior to the Super T) and seem to be very highly regarded. I do remember reading that they use the SLA to eliminate the potential for noise from AC. Anyway, it'll be fun, I think, to get this setup over the weekend. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7374 Registered: May-04 | I didn't make myself clear when I suggested you contact Tim about speakers. I don't believe anything he currently produces in his line are any more efficient than the average speaker. However, he has been on the DIY speaker forum for some time and has created contacts that might offer an alternative to the Omegas at a lower cost. The Fostex drivers are very popular on that forum and Tim's contact through the internet speaker companies might yield very much the same design ( asingle driver and a bit of signal processing components) for which Omega seems to charge rather exhorbitant amounts. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=de270b5176cc0960bd586c21457bed af&forumid=22 |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 431 Registered: Oct-04 | The Athena Technology AS-B1 are very efficient (90dB), very inexpensive ($120), and very well reviewed, I really feel that with this kind of set-up, which I would discribe as "audiophile on a shoe-string budget", I think they're an ideal complement to Sonic Impacts T-Amps. https://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=ATHASB1%2E2&product_nam e=Audition%20B1%2E2%20Speakers%20-%20Black,%20Pair |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 311 Registered: Jan-05 | Sorry, Jan, I missed your original point. That's what happens when I try to think at home after a 14 hour day at work.  I see your point about the Omegas (although the cabinets seems to be exceptional and a step above most speakers in that price range.) I'll ping Tim and see if he has some recommendations. Thanks for the Athena recommendation, Christopher. That looks like a great value. Last year, I tested (i.e. bought) several different models of speakers before discovering I loved the planar sound of Magnepan MMG's. That's the speaker in my main system now. In the second system, I'm using Monitor Audio GR10's which are almost as efficient as the Athenas. But, what I've really gotten interested in is hearing what a single driver speaker offers so that's probably what I'll try out at some point. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2695 Registered: Feb-05 | Another efficient speaker that has been getting decent press. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006JPDI/104-5187747-6850301?v=glance&n=17228 2 |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 432 Registered: Oct-04 | SM, I would definetly consider the Alegeria Audio Ling Single, not as effiecient, but you will not find a better deal on a SDFR speaker on the market, unless you build one yourself perhaps, but even then it would be hard. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 433 Registered: Oct-04 | http://www.us.alegriaaudio.com/LingSingle.htm |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2696 Registered: Feb-05 | OK you have piqued my interest. I've been wanting to put together a inexpensive 2 channel system for my wife. This may be a way to do it and have it sound good as well. I have a Marantz DV6400 in the spare bedroom that may serve as a decent source. Time to begin the research. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 434 Registered: Oct-04 | Art, so which speakers will you use? |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 312 Registered: Jan-05 | Hey Christopher, thanks for the link to the Ling Single. I didn't see that before and didn't realize they offered a single driver model. This may be something to check out even with the lower efficiency. Hmmmm....Thanks again. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 313 Registered: Jan-05 | So, I did a google search on the Ling Single and the first link I arbitrarily clicked on: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/reviews/156699.html LOL! Thanks, Jan. I'm going to read this on my lunch break. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 435 Registered: Oct-04 | SM, I suggest reading this thread as well http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-59257.html |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7401 Registered: May-04 | That looks like your amplifier arrived. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 215 Registered: Nov-05 | or the BF! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2699 Registered: Feb-05 | Not sure which speakers I will use Christopher. They have to be cheap. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 216 Registered: Nov-05 | I know you can turn it on SM, but can it turn . . . Oh never mind. Good that you are getting enjoyment from it. And cheap enjoyment at that. I wonder if they'll come down under so I can have a listen? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7404 Registered: May-04 | All sales are done through the internet, but I thought I saw a comment on one of the review sites that indicated they were available in your part of the known universe. The BF has been gone for some time now, unless something has happened to explain SM's absence from the forum other than work and home repairs. It's nice to know SM will have a second battery powered device to replace the BF. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 436 Registered: Oct-04 | What is BF??? |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 317 Registered: Jan-05 | It's nice to know SM will have a second battery powered device to replace the BF. Man, that was crude! lol CM, BF=Boyfriend. I'm a......girl. Shhhhh.... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7405 Registered: May-04 | I was talking about your alarm clock. What are you thinking? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 437 Registered: Oct-04 | HA! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 218 Registered: Nov-05 | Hmm, I was thinking about a Beach Boys song |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7406 Registered: May-04 | Pet Sounds, perhaps? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7407 Registered: May-04 | The Duracell NiMH, 2500 mAh rechargeables make a noticeable improvement in the sound of the T amp over a standard AA alkaline battery. The Duracells output about 1.4 VDC when fully charged but have more current capacity than thr standard alkalines. That amount of voltage should be slightly beneath the 12 volts Sonic Impact suggests for the circuit and therefore a slight reduction in wattage. But, the sound and the dynamics are slightly better still. I'm still awaiting delivery of the 13.5 VDC wall wart power supply from Parts Express. I was going to use the existing 12 VDC PS from my Tivoli radio but it checked at 17 VDC!!! There would seem to be a conspiracy afoot to have all 12 VDC power supplies running at such high voltage they will cause premature break down of the components they are feeding. I shall take this information down to the Kennedy Assassination Museum here in Dallas (the conspiracy museum which tracks the hundreds of theories concerning JFK's death and not to be confused with the Kennedy Museum in the [sixth floor] book depository which claims no conspiracy and projects LHO as the lone assassin; for the latter surely would tell me I'm nuts) to see if they have any further information or evidence of such a conspiracy. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 318 Registered: Jan-05 | My God, y'all are like a couple of 15 year old boys. Where's Nun and her ruler? |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 221 Registered: Nov-05 | da de da de da - da de da! da de da de da - da de da! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 222 Registered: Nov-05 | The T-amp is closer than I thought. http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/category2_1.htm Next time I'm up that way I might check these out. When I'm old enough to drive that is :-) Good, good, good, good . . . |
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Anonymous | Whack! Whack! Bad children |
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Anonymous | Whack! Whack! Bad children |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 319 Registered: Jan-05 | The amp actually arrived on Wednesday but I didn't have batteries so it sat in the box until last night when I anxiously unboxed it and prepared to set it up only to discover I had bought AAA batteries when AA were required. Fortunately, I had 4 new Duracell AA batteries available and 4 rechargeable NiMH batteries in my digital camera so the amp has power. This is probably not an optimal power configuration but, hey, it works. Last night, the "system" consisted of: - T-Amp - Monitor Audio GR10's (88dB/8ohm) - Woods Medium Duty 16ga electrical cord as speaker wires cut to 4 ft. length - The mini-plug adapter included with the amp - iPod Mini - loaded with 328kb AAC files as source Obviously, the source is the weakest link of this system - not so much the iPod but the music files. Still..... within the first few minutes, I had a stupid grin on my face. I won't (and can't) go into audiophile-babble so I'll just tell you how this affected me. One thing, it kept me up well past my normal bedtime as I could not stop listening. Another thing, I was so totally immersed in the music, I didn't even think of tweaks I could or should do. In the past couple of years of trying out different equipment (3 amps or a/v receivers, 1 tube amp, 4 brands of speakers, 3 CDP/universal player/ iPod, etc) there have been only two other times when I was wholly drawn in like this: - The first occurred when I first heard the McIntosh MA6200 (which led to me dismantling an HT/music system I had assembled only months before) - The second time occurred when I first listened to Magnepan MMG's (which were a revelation to me after previously listening to Monitor Audio, B&W, and Spendor speakers in my system - and the MMG's became the immediate favorites.) It doesn't have quite the visceral effect on me that the MA6200 does but this amp is damn excellent. It's hard to believe what I'm hearing. It really is as quiet as Jan indicated in his comments and, to me, presents a "black velvet background" to borrow a phrase Rick Barnes used a couple of years ago. At that time, I remember reading his comment and thinking "I'd like a little of what he's smoking." But, when I first heard music as presented by the MA6200, I immediately understood what he meant. It's a little like being in love.... if you have to ask "how do I know it's love?" then you haven't been in love. Trying to articulate what a black velvet background is to someone else is difficult but, when you hear it, you'll know it and you won't forget it. And, you hear it with the T-Amp. The other thing I'm having a difficult time believing is how the Monitor Audio speakers play with the T-Amp. With this amp, they seem to disappear. The MA's lower sensitivity limits how loud the amp drives them but, they are playing loud enough to fill my room (12x20x8). With the T-Amp, I have a new found appreciation for the MA's. For those who have followed my escapades over the last couple of years, you know I bought these for the HT system and, after dismantling that system for a Mac 2 channel, I ended up putting the MA's in a box and listening with a pair of B&W CDM NT1 - until the Maggies came along. A month ago, I took them out of the box and paired them with a NAD c350 integrated amp to use in the bedroom - but, only did so because the Maggies were in the main system and I had sold the B&W (but only because they were more marketable than the MA's). Interestingly, with the T-Amp some of the factors that caused the MA's to live in a box for a year have been mitigated. The bright tweeter has been tamed, the bass was very fast and tight and the soundstage expands beyond the speaker box. This is the most impressive aspect to me. As some may recall, after getting the MMG's, I said "I'll never get another box speaker" or something to that effect. Times change and so do I. In fact, I need to quickly get the Maggies hooked up to Mac and reassure myself that they still have my heart. Today, I've done some experimentation with various equipment configurations. The first thing I tried was pairing the MMG's with the T-Amp. This didn't work out very well. The amp did drive the MMG's pretty well on some material, for instance, Art Pepper. But, for the most part, the MMG's were lacking in dynamics with the T-Amp and, the huge soundstage that blew me away when I first heard the MMG's was not present. Also, the threshold for distortion with this pairing was much smaller. So, for now, the MA's will be the speaker of choice. The other changes in the system today include hooking the T-Amp up to the NAD c350's pre-out and using the NAD as a pre-amp. Before continuing, I'd like to congratulate myself for using a pre-out configuration for the first time ever. LOL! Ok, that was sad. But still, it's a personal milestone in my audio trek. So, anyway. Instead of the iPod as a source, I pulled a Toshiba SD2109 DVD out of the closet and used it as a source. At some point, I'm sure I'll try the Denon DVD-2200 or NAD c541i CDP with it but, for now, the Toshiba is the source. And it sounds fantastic. Today's musical guests included Norah Jones, Jack Johnson, Miles Davis (of the B i t c h e s Brew era), Art Pepper, Daniel Lanois, and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra performing Haydn Sym 103. With the exception of some peaks in Haydn, the T-Amp handled it all with grace: excellent dynamics, huge soundstage and smooth, velvety presentation. Right now, I'm listening to Gillian Welch "Soul Journey" with the T-Amp paired with Orb Audio satellite/sub system. I have the sub connected to the speaker outputs of the amp and the sats coming out of the sub. Here, again, is a scenario in which the speakers transcend expectations formed from previous experience. These speakers normally are connected to a Harmon Kardon AV140 a/v receiver and my enthusiasm for that pairing is in constant flux. I had essentially decided it was a great system for HT but only a decent system for music. With the T-Amp, the Orbs have taken on a new personality. They haven't quite disappeared the way the MA's did but they are sounding more cohesive with a bigger soundstage than they ever did before. Also, these speakers are the most efficient I have on hand and I'm able to play them a little louder than the MA's. I have to stress, though, that both speakers play "loud enough" for most listening conditions. This little amp is truly a wonder and I give it high recommendation without hesitation. |
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Anonymous | Whack! Whack! Bad children |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 320 Registered: Jan-05 | I wonder if Nun is familiar with the Beach Boys? |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 223 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks SM - a great report. I really will have to check this amp out, Trouble is - I don't need one. With our open plan house, the one music center serves us well. And I guess I'd get that look if I told Mrs Rantz about this. Uh Oh - looks like the Nun is having problems - Ha! |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 321 Registered: Jan-05 | Art, I would venture to say that your wife would be very pleased with the T-Amp. Speaking as a sister, even the $30 plastic version isn't all that bad aesthetically and it sounds terrific! The speakers you choose will be important - but, based on what I've heard from the speakers I've paired with it, the efficiency looks to be the most critical aspect. Even Jan indicated that speakers you wouldn't expect to be hi-performance seem to become more capable paired with it. Let us know what you do. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 322 Registered: Jan-05 | MR, I know what you mean. I have too much equipment right now. I have to admit, this is such a stunning revelation, it's making me rethink some things. Well, I'm off to buy some more batteries.... |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 225 Registered: Nov-05 | SM - you'll have to stop it. Buying audio gear I mean. Have a good evening with Mr T |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 438 Registered: Oct-04 | Nice review SM, thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7408 Registered: May-04 | At the price, this amp is well worth the investment as a spare should anything need repairs in the main system. Sm - I would recommend trying the close to/on the floor placement that Rick and I have discussed in Old Dogs. I have the KEF's on a 2" thick concrete paver with a layer of paper towel between the paver and the speakers. A large TipToe is under the front of the speaker to tilt it back to aim the tweeter at my listening position. I sit about 6-7' from the speakers and the soundstage is beyond the walls of the room in every direction. Even the ambience of the sound wraps around me with well recorded pieces. As I said in the first post, listening to this amp is an education in audio. I would only change your post to read the blackness of the background is something you do not hear. I would also suggest running the T amp from the pre outs of the 6200. In case you didn't click on this link in the site referenced by Rantz: http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_morsiani_e.html |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 323 Registered: Jan-05 | I would only change your post to read the blackness of the background is something you do not hear. This may be an issue of interpretation. From my perspective, I do hear it. But, what I hear is the absolute silence that seems to envelope each note like a cushion of air. To me, this silence is the essence of the "black velvet background". Maybe it isn't accurate to say you "hear it" but it is definitely something you sense. I used the NAD as a pre-amp primarily due to convenience. It isn't in a rack and doesn't weigh as much as the MA6200 so that made it easy to quickly hook up. I am interested in making the "progression" of pairing Mr T with all of my equipment. Something tells me he is a bit of a swinger. |
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Bronze Member Username: MrbeefyPost Number: 21 Registered: Jan-06 | wow... I laughed about, what, 2-3 weeks ago when someone dug this thing up? Now your starting to make a believer out of me! When I get back from vacation in a month, I think I'll pick one of these units up. Good timing too; I recently bought a set of Boston Acoustics A60s on Ebay (still in the mail). They have 90 dB and are said to be quite well managed with only 10 watts. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7414 Registered: May-04 | I've been staring at the A-40's that are in the HT system and wondering how they'd do with the T amp. http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/tripath_amps_e.html Yet another dimension of class T amplifiers. They sound very interesting. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7415 Registered: May-04 | I'd have to agree once again with the reviewer's assessment of the Sonic Impact amp. It is not the most engaging amp (falling between most solid state and most tube amps I've heard and yet not a MOSFET) I've ever listened to and there does seem to be a lack of "bloom" in some instruments. Adding the Audible Illusions pre amp makes the T amp more listenable and interesting. In some ways. Adding another layer of "noise", however minor, is not what the T amp really needs. There are limitations to this amplifier. However, for $25 ... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7417 Registered: May-04 | http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/news.htm |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 324 Registered: Jan-05 | In listening last night, I discovered a couple of things: - The T-Amp cannot take place of the MA6200. I listened to the MA6200 last night and rediscovered the essence that captured me the first time I heard it. - I like the T-Amp better when it is not running with a pre-amp. I realized last night that it sounded much leaner when paired with the NAD. I think it sounds richer and fuller when used as an integrated amp. To me, this amp is ideal for use as a office or bedroom system for those who can afford or are willing to pay for more conventional hi-fi equipment. If budget is a concern or you can't understand why someone would put a lot of money into audio equipment, this amp delivers a rewarding listening experience at a tremendous value. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2710 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks SM that's very helpful for me. That is exactly why I'm considering one. As an inexpensive way to put together a system for my wife that I don't have to worry about the grandchildren messing with, and that provides a reasonable level of fidelity. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7421 Registered: May-04 | http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=26 |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1165 Registered: Dec-04 | Well, 2 of these with a fair pair of Klipch might be nice at the computer desk, but may as well be made of pure unobtainium in Canada. Shame. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7423 Registered: May-04 | Nuck - If you're referring to the link just above your post, they are coming from Italy and they had no problem taking my order to ship to the US. (http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=257&language=e n&osCsid=a481e37f44c02e43dd3d17cde6052680) They, and the Sonic Impact unit, are stereo amplifiers so one should do you. The bump in wattage from the Sonic Impact amp should make decent volume with just about any speaker. Or, you might consider: http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project05/Project05.html The speakers and amp are a fairly simple project and can be tailored to your system and taste. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1167 Registered: Dec-04 | I was referring to the t-amp original(vanilla)? actually, Jan. You got the T from amazom, yes? And now you are becoming the Eddie of high quality cheap amps(ouch, that was the back of my head). Really good links, and reviews, thanks. When I can get the 30$ unit here, I certainly will. A real eye-opener! SM might have to move some equipment soon. Art's on the hook, too. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1168 Registered: Dec-04 | Jan, did the mail arrive? |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 326 Registered: Jan-05 | I've given some thought as to how I'll use the T-Amp. Right now, I'm leaning towards using it as the amp to drive the front speakers in my HT system. At this point, I don't have any intentions of modding it or going to a more audiophile version - at least not until I get some other things going first (like Mr. Dual). In my HT system, I think it is a noticeable improvement over the pairing of Orb Audio speakers with a Harmon Kardon a/v receiver. The Orbs really sounded better the best they have when I tested them with the T-Amp. The MA6200 remains in the main system with the Maggies. Although, I do remain interested in trying out a single-driver speaker with the Mac. Leaning towards the Ling Single. Another good thing the T-Amp brought to me is getting me back into listening to music over my main system. With all the remodeling going on at my house the last few months, I haven't cranked up the Mac as much and have been listening mainly to the iPod with Etymotic earphones. It's been great to get reaquainted with Mac! |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4611 Registered: Jun-04 | ok now im intrested I scanned your posts and im intrested enough to read it all....you all may have another intrested party |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4612 Registered: Jun-04 | ok Im having a hard time putting this all together what do i need to be able to hook this amp up to my cerwin vega dx 7's they have 12's with mids and tweets and are very efficient pretty sure its 96 db 1w1 meter |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4613 Registered: Jun-04 | oh duhh me all I would need is a cd player to play the music |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7425 Registered: May-04 | Nuck - I just ordered the amplificatore Italofonona last night. With the emotional drive Italian and French audio products usually impart to the music, I'm interested to hear what an Italian version of the Tripath amplifier (with three-four times the wattage of the SI T amp) will sound like. Connecting emotionally to the music is my largest complaint with the T amp I now own. It has a tap your toes sort of sound; but SM is correct, the Mac amplifiers do a much better job with PRaT while giving up a bit to the T amp in the make-you-smile-because-your-hifi-sounds-so-much-like-expensive-gear department. The impression I have from the T amp most often is the soundstage is painted in planes instead of layers and the sound of the instrument is put in place instead of being projected into the space. (Keep in mind the elcheapo speakers I am using when you read these comments. My impression could change entirely if I had the opportunity to hear the SI T amp with a pair of highy sensitive better quality speakers. And, of course, most recordings have this type of sound to begin with.) Still, for all the quibbles about things only "audiophiles" would notice and complain about, I think the T amp, in its $25 version, is still an unbelievable education in audio. What the T amp does well, it does very, very well. Where it falls short, it does so only in comparison to amplifiers that are more often than not silly expensive. But, instead of trying to drag more performance out of the SI T amp, I thought I would do better spending the same amount of money for a better version of the Tripath amplifier to begin with. And how could I pass up anything Italian? Nuck, I'm glad you felt the baciagalloop slap across the back of your neck. I will restrain my enthusiasm for the T amp and any comments regarding its performance to this thread. Despite the title to this thread, it remains for anyone to decide whether a $25-35 investment is worth their time. As I said, this unit is well worth having, in my estimation, just to keep as a spare amp. sean - You will need a pair of speaker cables no larger than 16 AWG and (possibly) 8 "AA" alkaline batteries. If you do not have an interconnect that goes from two male RCA's down to a 1/8" stereo mini plug, you'll have to buy that also. The interconnect and an AC/DC converter to eliminate the batteries can be ordered from the Sonic Impact seller when you purchase the amplifier. Finally, the 13.5VDC power supply (wall wart) from Parts Express arrived yesterday. A quick check indicates 18 VDC at the tip of the connector. This would certainly seem to be too high for the SI amp (a full 50% over the recommended volatge) and I'll give Parts Express a call before I hook this up to the T amp. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4614 Registered: Jun-04 | Jan is this sonic going to be ok on 4 ohm speakers in requards to the quality of sound also im a little woried that my speakers can take 255 rms ...i mean im running them on a onkyo 424 reciever now that puts out 65 rms per channel and they get motre than loud enough but what im lookin for now is musical acurracy and clearity not loud my hearing is too precious....also would i be better off buying the panasonic SA-XR55 budget minded bought if i was looking to replace my onko in favor of adding dolby digital ...(im a movie buff) |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4615 Registered: Jun-04 | im looking for the sound quality that ive heard you guys mention time and time again and im tired of being curious now i want to get serious and buy something.....the onkyo is good (much better than the new onkyo) but I no theres much better |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7431 Registered: May-04 | I can't tell you what to buy. The SI T amp will produce about 10 clean watts into a 4 Ohm load. While people tend to underestimate what 10 watts can produce, particularly when 1 watt will manage 96dB out of your speakers, 10 watts still is not much for many listeners. The Panasonic is a different beast from all I can gather. You'll have to make your decision based either on what you read or by auditioning both amplifiers. The T amp is not, at this point, intended for HT use unless you are willing to live within its restrictions. SM says she'll hook her amplifier up in her HT system, so maybe she can give more advice. But, certainly, if HT is your target, the Panasonic has the bells and whistles and can do HT at the flick of a remote. Making the T amp fit into a HT system will require some hook ups that will require you understand what goes to where. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4616 Registered: Jun-04 | im basically concerned with the amp not producing enough power for the bass out of the 12 inch speakers but i do have a 10 inch powered subwoofer made by onkyo as well producing 120 watts rms ...I guess I could advance with a second si t amp or even a third to do front rear and center channel operation because last time I listened to dolby digital I felt it lacked coverage in frequency ranges and my dolby onkyo prologic did a better job in those reguards but when dolby digital did play right it did come out much brighter (in a good way) |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 330 Registered: Jan-05 | Actually, I won't be able to use the T-Amp in the HT after all as I've discovered the H/K doesn't have a pre-out connection. Right now, the T-Amp is setup in my bedroom system. Jan, please give us a full report of the Italian version once you get it. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4617 Registered: Jun-04 | Well im looking to replace my onkyo with something else for streo listening then because im thinking the t amp just wont fit the bill for meesp since sm said that her ma 6200 was better ....what does one of those run |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7432 Registered: May-04 | Sean - The size of the driver in your speaker cabinet makes little difference in terms of an amplifier being able to drive the speaker to volume. It is the efficiency of the speaker as a whole system( in your case, you own a high efficiency speaker) and the electrical phase angle of the speaker's crossover components which will generally determine whether an amplifier will have a difficult time mating with a particular speaker. There are other factors to consider when mating components, but that essentially covers whether a speaker can reach full volume with an particular amplifier. There are large speakers which are quite easy to drive and small speakers which can cause an amplifier to have siezures. You can find a McIntosh MA6200 on sites such as Audiogon and Audio Classics. The price is based on condition of the unit and what the seller wants to ask. You should be able to find a 6200 in good working condition for under $1k. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7436 Registered: May-04 | Autocostruire ------------------------------------------------------ Order Number: 692 Detailed Invoice: http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/account_history_info.php?order_ Date Ordered: Sunday 05 February, 2006 The comments for your order are Your order has been updated to the following status. New status: Shipped |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4634 Registered: Jun-04 | ok im new here I know this is good stuff but educate me on what does what and how as far as buiding a workable system here |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4635 Registered: Jun-04 | im so lickin my lips here made a shift in my car audio desires now im movin on to home audio |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7440 Registered: May-04 | What does what and how? Tell me exactly what you want to know. I can tell you most of what you learned from car audio either should be forgotten, ignored or will be the opposite of what you expect when you begin putting together a home system. But, of course, that all depends on what you expectations amount to. What is good sound for one listener could easily drive another from the room. In my estimation, to do a decent job at piecing together a realistic sounding system, you must begin with a reference point in your sights and then aim all efforts toward assembling a system which comes as close as possible to that reference. So my first question is always; do you have a reference point for what you consider good sound other than your car stereo? If so, what is that reference? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4640 Registered: Jun-04 | Ok ive located a Sonic t amplifier for 26.99 plus shipping and ive been considering buying one of these again but also want to keep in mind the site you have just shared. What I want to do is have a taste of this in between tube and solid state feel that this class t is said to offer considering I havent had a tube amp in front of me and as far as I can tell cannot afford. The sound im looking for doesnt have to be loud at all but over the years with car audio ive noticed one charachteristic that annoys me to no end and that is none of the systems ive heard ever sound comfortable and balanced at low listening volumes and when you do get them to balance right its at a much higher volume and I hear what Ill call excessive tweeter range with a less than controlled sound and feel. Ive also noticed that my ears tend to be very sensitive to the tweeter frequency ranges and it distracts me from really sitting back and enjoying the music,I guess its what ive heard described as wearing you out. Since being into car audio and home audio ive come to feel that I like a tweeter thats natural and mids that are full bodied and open as far as the low end I like it fast and tight and for in home use it doesnt have to extend low It just has to be up to the task in any music type I throw at it. I have a very wide variety of music taste and I find the older I get the the wider that variety becomes. I guess you can say ive come to apreciate music and its many expressions. Any way to get back to my original question I guess what I really wanted to know is what do I look for to create flexability in options should I want to create a home theater experience out of these class t amps. As of now from the reports ive read on the web I have to say im very intrested to see what an idea like this would sound like. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7445 Registered: May-04 | Sean - You seem quite adept at describing what you have heard from your car stereo. But I asked you for a reference other than your car stereo. Do you see a problem here? Ask anyone interested in audio what they want and they will not tell you they prefer slow, sloppy and closed in. Everyone wants fast, tight and open, sean, and the actual acquisition of those traits is expensive and open to debate on when they have been reached depending on what the listener uses as a reference for "accurate" sound. To say that is not really an answer to my question. Let's try it again and this time I would like you to think of a reference sound that a home system should attempt to recreate. In other words, what are you trying to reproduce in your home? For a HT system based on a group of 6 watt amplifiers you will need pre amp outputs on the processor and very efficient speakers all the way around. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4641 Registered: Jun-04 | "Let's try it again and this time I would like you to think of a reference sound that a home system should attempt to recreate. In other words, what are you trying to reproduce in your home? " I dont understand what your asking Jan Im trying to reproduce the qualities I described I dont know how else to tell you. Your asking what am i trying to reproduce in my home makes me think your asking what sound do I want. Please clearify. Thanks, Sean |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4642 Registered: Jun-04 | even though you say a refrence point other than car audio and I used that as my example Id say ive answered the question you asked me so disreguard the fact I used my car audio experience to answer you. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4643 Registered: Jun-04 | "For a HT system based on a group of 6 watt amplifiers you will need pre amp outputs on the processor and very efficient speakers all the way around." Do you have a recommendation as far as the processor I would buy to do this task well? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7447 Registered: May-04 | Nope, no suggestion. You get to decide what suits your needs. Price is not that important at this point. Read some of the other areas on the forum and decide what you think might work. I may be the wrong person to ask regarding how to put together a system. To me you are asking me to put into a few sentences what I've learned over 35 years in this hobby. That's not easy to do. As I stated at the front of this thread, the SI T amp will give you an education in what is important both in music and in audio. But it will do so by way of you having an idea of what you are hearing then asking and answering questions about what makes this interesting and worth listening to. I also spent several decades selling audio. I have a different way of getting to what might suit someone that many of the members on this forum don't ask. What I need to know is not something that can be easily conveyed by just asking questions in a static environment. I would like to know what you're hearing as you listen to various pieces of equipment and music. Let me begin with the question I most often posed to my clients. Do you listen to live music and what sort do you listen to? Is all the music you hear amplified through some sort of sound reinforcement system or do you ever hear acoustic instruments playing without amplification? If you do hear live music, can you identify some qualities of live music that are important to you beyond the hifi terms of fast, tight, and open? Why did you pick the CV's if volume is not important to you. That is what CV's do. Saying you just liked the sound is not an answer I can build on. And saying you thought they were tight, fast and open will not do since many people would vehemently disagree with at least part of that assessment. See? This is why I may not be able to do this on the forum. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4644 Registered: Jun-04 | Ok Jan I see where your coming from now. Bear with me here when I got into home audio it was from the typical stand point most come into that realm. The what name is on it and how much power does it produce. The same goes for the speakers what name is on it how much power can it handle and what size are the speakers. Now things have progressed and ive taken time to really think about what im truely looking for in what im hearing and where things fall short but also keeping in mind reasonable price involvement. Having stated the price I also realize planning and patience and education can help you minimize the hit it has on your wallet. When it comes down to the sound im looking for I guess real would describe it best when I hear an instrument I want it to sound as close to the real thing as possible yet not in your face. I wanna clearify to you that when I bought the cerwin vegas sound quality was only vaguely undewrstod at that time and I by no means am saying the speakers are a musical wonder. I guess what I really should ask based on where I think im headed with my palns is do you think if I bought a processor with doly digital that the sonic impacts would make a good choice for movies or do you think sticking to streo listening would be my best bet with that? I mean the investment would be minimal in terms of amplification investment. Thanks, Sean |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4645 Registered: Jun-04 | I decided to go ahead and buy one of these sonic impact amps Theres just too much good im hearing about these amps I gotta hear it for myself. I went ahead and ordered one from parts express. I figure buying one I can test it out and see first hand if it would make a good home theater experience if I bought 3 total. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7449 Registered: May-04 | Good idea. I think the T amp will be best used in a strict two channel set up. Its strengths are more in line with sitting down to absorb some music than being excited by explosions. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4652 Registered: Jun-04 | Thats a good deal then. If thats all i get out of my 37.00 purchase with sonic impact then thats fine. I wanna hear what all the rave is about. Thanks, Jan |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4658 Registered: Jun-04 | I was just sitting here thinking about the comment you just made.... "Its strengths are more in line with sitting down to absorb some music than being excited by explosions." Your right and concerning music that gets annoying to me sometimes too. (the boom) Its gonna be nice to have a change of pace. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7452 Registered: May-04 | Sean - You do know the "boom" is built into your CV's; don't you? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4659 Registered: Jun-04 | yes....I was just reflecting on the fact that I was listening to streaming audio music yesterday on winamp because I have my pc running on a 1/8 stereo adaptor to my onkyo reciever and the bass boom was just really anoying my ears. I think my tastes are changing and I may sell these cerwin vegas back to my brother. He regrets selling them so should be easy to talk him into. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7455 Registered: May-04 | OK, now the somewhat bad news. It is difficult to find a speaker that will be as sensitive/efficient as the CV's, and therefore play as loud with minimal wattage (the T amp), without sacrificing some degree of accuracy. In other words, in affordable speakers, it is difficult to combine accuracy and high efficiency. Not impossible, but most of what is on the consumer market isn't put together like that. When it plays loud, it tends to boom and sizzle. Unfortunately, the inverse is also true, when it heads toward accuracy, it tends to loose sensistivity. As I said, not always, but that's how the market usually works. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7456 Registered: May-04 | I was surprised to have the Italian T amp kit arrive at my door this morning courtesy of FED-EX. It would appear to be a very simple kit with no surface mount devices to be concerned with. I'm also waiting for a 12VDC rechargeable sealed lead acid battery and charger to arrive from here: http://www.action-electronics.com/chargers.htm I contacted Parts Express concerning the 15.5VDC adapter I ordered from them. Their tech says it should be no problem with the T amp since what they sell is an unregulated supply (figured that), and the load of the amp will bring it down to an acceptable voltage when in use. I'm a bit sceptical about the voltage dropping almost 50% under the load of the amplifier. I plugged the adapter into the amp under the advisement of the PE tech and the amp case does get a bit warmer during use than when I am running it off the rechargeable "AA" batteries. The amp sounds good with a slight improvement in the immediacey" of the sound with the adapter; but I'm still concerned that excessive voltage will ultimately effect the reliability of the amp. I've not seen any good recommendations for regulated power supplies other than those listed in the TNT article. Most everything I've found has been at 13.8VDC which is a tad high for the new amp kit. So, as of now, I am waiting for the SLA battery to arrive and provide a constant (more or less) 12VDC. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4660 Registered: Jun-04 | Well if all else fails I can build my own speakers I guess and make up for the efficiency issues. I considered making eithier a tline enclosure, dipole, or a line array....all of which are new to me but Im eager to try any of the above. As far as my batteries for my sonic impact I got lucky and found a second set of 15 minute rechargables on sale for 7 bucks at wallmart. (cant beat that deal) Jan do you think the amplifier sounds better because of the increased voltage procucing more power out of the amp? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4661 Registered: Jun-04 | If so I wonder what one of my peltiers might do to cool the chip if im thinkin things through right. Would an idea like this work? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4664 Registered: Jun-04 | jan would an idea like this work well for one of our selected type of speakers? I found this idea intresting. A parabolic shape wouldnt this increase efficiecy of the speaker. http://cgi.ebay.com/SoundTube-FP663-4-Dome-Speaker-4-Ohm-Sharp-Focus-Point_W0QQi temZ5862258228QQcategoryZ3276QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7458 Registered: May-04 | The amp probably benefits from the higher voltage and amperage of the adapter vs. batteries. An amp should produce higher wattage when you run it at higher voltages and the larger current supply should give the amp a bit more "oomph". In this respect, high current availability is more desirable than excessive voltage. If you apply more voltage at the expense of reliability then you have to decide which you value the most. Don't know what your "peltier" is. Are we talking a fan or a heat sink asembly? I see the term applied to many different configurations. A simple heatsink attached to the Tripath chip has been the route I've seen employed most often in the modifications of the T amp. The problem becomes one of running the chip with too much input voltage to squeeze out an extra watt. I'm not sure what your plans would be for the parabolic reflector. It doesn't appear to be a good choice for a music speaker. And I doubt you'll gain anything from the reflector in terms of efficiency. The efficiency is pretty much established by the sensitivity of the driver(s). The enclosure type can affect the overall numbers, but you are looking mostly at the driver's specifications and the amount of power wasted in the crossover when talking about most conventional speaker designs. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4666 Registered: Jun-04 | ok thanks for your timely and well thought out response |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4669 Registered: Jun-04 | Jan would the fostex 126e be a good choice in a t line paired with the sonic impact make a good match. Ive never heard a fostex |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7464 Registered: May-04 | If you're interested in the Fostex drivers, read about them on the DIY forum http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ and in general information sites as drivers in high efficiency systems paired with SET amplifiers. Fostex has a good reputation but most of their affordable full range drivers require a compensation network to mitigate a few problems the drivers have in the upper mids. In general, I'd say the Fostex drivers would be a good place to start with full range drivers if you will be limited in wattage and money. Timn8ter has done plenty of design work and can offer more advice on DIY speakers than I ever could. He will normally be happy to respond to any questions you ask. As to transmission lines, that is a whole different can of worms. Check out the T-line speaker site; http://www.t-linespeakers.org/ There has been a lot that has been done with the basic idea of transmission lines in the past few years. http://www.highefficiencyloudspeakers.com/ |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4671 Registered: Jun-04 | My SI just arrived in the mail. Im now charging up my 8 rayovac 15 min chargables which sadly will take 1 hr because I didnt prepare and I only have a 2 position 15 min charger. 50 hrs burn in soon on the way. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7467 Registered: May-04 | Well, I'm a bit ahead of sean and the new Autocostruire amplifier is assembled and running on "A" batteries. The kit was very well done and the instruction manual was, for a translated set of technical instructions, well written and extremely simple to follow. Even with my deteriorated soldering skills and over attention to correct placement of components, the amplifier went together in a few hours. If you can read the numbers on the capacitors and have a digital multimeter the rest is merely a matter of locating the designated position of the parts on the board. If you can understand that the component designated on the worksheet as going to "RfIn" actually goes in "RfIn" on the board, you can put this kit together. (I did have to take off my new bifocals as the board is a pretty tight fit.) Assembling the project case I will have to buy or construct will take longer than building up the amplifier kit itself. For now, I'm thinking it might do well in an empty Illy espresso canister. The amp is far smoother than their coffee but I don't have a Vestri chocolate canister available. Hmmm, maybe a biscotti jar would work? I know sean doesn't want to hear this when he is just about to report on his reactions to the Si T amp, but the Autocostiere amp is an immediate and noticeable improvement over the less expensive amplifier. The extra power is noticeable and the dynamics of the amp, both micro and macro, far outshine the lesser T amp. I'll let the amplifier burn in a few more hours as it was still improving when I went to bed at 4 AM. I put in on low volume and have run it for about 15 hours so far and the sound is still opening up. More to come. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4672 Registered: Jun-04 | "I know sean doesn't want to hear this when he is just about to report on his reactions to the Si T amp, but the Autocostiere amp is an immediate and noticeable improvement over the less expensive amplifier. The extra power is noticeable and the dynamics of the amp, both micro and macro, far outshine the lesser T amp. I'll let the amplifier burn in a few more hours as it was still improving when I went to bed at 4 AM. I put in on low volume and have run it for about 15 hours so far and the sound is still opening up. More to come." Well thats ok Jan because I got more to look forward to and I JUST hooked the SI up and I have one word for this amp IMPRESSIVE its detailed accurate and suprisingly loud on my cerwin vegas youd never know im running 11 w per channel on them one BIG gripe I have though The batteries are a MAJOR pain to get in. This SI is hands down better than my onkyo 424 reciever as of my second song Im playing rachel lampa and shes sounds so sweet on this thing. Thank you so much for your review of this amp. Definately a lesson in audio without a doubt. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7470 Registered: May-04 | Yeah, the battery compartment could use some work. Glad you're enjoying the amplifier. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4675 Registered: Jun-04 | been listening almost 5 hrs and its still impressing me and im not hearing the sloppy bass transitions others are claiming on busy passages were it has faults i think it has more to do with propper speaker matching. Im listening to yanni now and am just taking it all in. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4677 Registered: Jun-04 | I decided to try the si from a different angle and use my advent mini 2's with the 5.25 and tweets. what a contrast compared to the cerwin vegas the advents are probably 89 db efficient compared to the cerwins 96 db. One thing I do know is that the si would suit me fine on 89 db maybe even less efficient speakers; but one thing I noticed is the advents are overly punchy on some of the music I played earlier today on the cerwins. The advents are also much tamer on the tweets and thats not bad from a sound level point of view but Id like a slightly richer tone to the tweets. The mids are fine too from a sound level point of view but id like a slightly softer tone. I know this may seem like two extreme changes but Im doing the best I can to describe the sound im after hoping I could get some pointers as to wether you think the fostexs seem like a match even any other model other than what I previously asked about in the 4 inch size. I plan on using my onkyo powered sub along with these in a very tame fashion. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4678 Registered: Jun-04 | ok think I put my finger on what I want I want a wide open sound out of my mids and tweets but not forward and I want this set up for very causual volumes not lets jam out or wake the neighbors kinda sound. haha |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4679 Registered: Jun-04 | I just wanted to let you know I picked up some bookshelf fostex's to see what they are like on the si. |
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New member Username: JsbEvanston, IL Post Number: 6 Registered: Jan-06 | Forgive me for a naive question. There have been several references here to a "break-in" or "burn in" period for the Sonic T amp. What exactly constitutes break in? Is it just having the amp powered on? Is it having an input signal to the amp as well? Does there need to be a signal output to speakers? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7492 Registered: May-04 | "Is it just having the amp powered on?" No. The amplifier has a sleep mode when no signal is applied to the inputs. "Is it having an input signal to the amp as well?" Yes. "Does there need to be a signal output to speakers?" Yes. Run music through the amplifier hooked to your speakers for about 50 hours of use at moderate volume and you should notice an improvement in the overall sound quality. The amplifier will sound slightly better after about a half hour warm up each time you switch it on after break in is complete. |
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New member Username: JsbEvanston, IL Post Number: 7 Registered: Jan-06 | Thanks Jan. The T amp I bought a few weeks ago is in my home office area, so it has been getting 7-8 hours of use each weekday. I don't know if I can discern any improvement in the sound -- I liked it right away, and I still like it! I just bought another one to use outside when the weather improves, so I may switch to that one just to put some hours on it before then. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4702 Registered: Jun-04 | well ive tested this amp on five different sets of speakers and the one was my brothers klh 12 inch with mids and tweets and his cheapo technic reciever with 70 watts sounded better in every way except the midrange.....in every other set i tried it on the sound was improved overall on the SI over the original recievers they were played on so you can have poor performance with some speakers on the amplifier hence the mixed reviews in some isolated cases...it seems this Si does emphasize the midrange frequencies in every case though |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4703 Registered: Jun-04 | overall id say the amp is nice but not a giant killer |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7496 Registered: May-04 | How did it fare on the Fostex bookshelfs? |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4704 Registered: Jun-04 | dunno didnt recieve them yet just won them on ebay ill be sure to let you know....they are in excellent shape so I know they were beaten and the guys items he had for sale other than the fostexs were musical instruments and looked very nice so I know hes a music lover also |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4705 Registered: Jun-04 | werent beaten I meant to say |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4714 Registered: Jun-04 | man this si sucks the batteries mine died about 9 hrs in on 2000ma rechargables and i did notice the sound quality drop off about 6 hrs in |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4715 Registered: Jun-04 | ahh fresh batteries fresh sound |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4716 Registered: Jun-04 | I probably went through batteries faster beacuse im running the amp in 4 ohms cuz the vegas are 4 ohms |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4727 Registered: Jun-04 | Jan I just got my fostex bookshelfs and hooked them up to the sonic impact they are the ss 1.1 model. I thought they were 4 inch fullrange speakers but they look more like 3 inch fullrange. I have to say that the Si definately seems to match the fostex's fairly well. One thing I like about the fostexs is that they are balanced and not excessive. I think they are a bit too punchy on the si but when I hook my equalizer up to them they should be fine overall id say the 33 bucks shipped I spent was worth it and the speakers look brand new. Do you know what the fostexs would cost new? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7537 Registered: May-04 | I don't know thw model you have. Get the model number and find it through a search engine or just place "Fostex Loudspeakers" in a se. With the limited wattage available from the T amps, it wpuld seem higher efficiency is a moer important specification than most others when shopping for a speaker to pair with the Tripath chips. It is not the most important spec, but it gives the amplifier lots of headroom to be working into a 96dB or higher speaker than an 86dB design. When the amplifier doesn't have to work so close to its limits, the available headroom gives the amp lots more punch and clarity. Or so it would seem from what I've heard and read. Though not my favorite speaker to sit and listen through for long periods, I would guess the T amps and a pair of Klipschorns (with another 8db sensitivity boost over most Fostex drivers) would be an interesting combination. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4728 Registered: Jun-04 | It's interesting you mentioned the Klipschorns because I looked at them before the fostex's. The fostex's are intresting especially if they are only 3 inch fullrange speakers. I think I am going to try the 4 inch fullranges next in a tline they shoiuld be intresting also especially for the price. Ive wanted an excuse to make my own speakers and also experience a tline for the first time so they fit the bill. Im also going to probably make my own subwoofer as well down the road using my image dynamics id12 subwoofer but in the mean time my onkyo powered sub will suit me. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4729 Registered: Jun-04 | Well I found them heres an except from the website article The satellite speakers--model SS-1.1--are now full-range, and, like its predecessor, shielded from magnetic interference caused by video monitors. A new proprietary crossover network provides better efficiency, creating a smoother transition between the subwoofer and satellite speakers. The net result is a more accurate sound and musical response. We also have available optional mounting brackets." The PS-3.1 system includes two SS-1.1 full-range, shielded satellite speakers that are rated at 5 watts into 4 ohms. The SW-1.1 subwoofer is a ported bass reflex design and is rated at 15 watts into 4 ohms. The powered system requires no external amplification. the ss 1.1 is what I have minus the subwoofer. The 5 watt power handling and 4 ohm load explains why they sound like they do right now on the si. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 450 Registered: Oct-04 | I just picked up a pair of CSS FR125S (not terribly efficient @ 86dB) that I plan on screwing around with. I may try a straight forward open baffle design. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 340 Registered: Jan-05 | Jan, Have you done any additional listening to the Autocostruire amp? If so, what are your impressions? Do you think some of the "audiophile" amps based on the T-Amp would be worthy of a main listening system? I've read comments from some who believe these amps are a mix of the best qualities of tube-amps and the best qualities of SS amps. It was clear to me, the Sonic T-Amp could not be a replacement for the MA6200 but, I'm wondering if an audiophile version might be a formidable competitor considering how good the T-Amp is? If you were to spend say $850 on a new amp - would you look at getting a SET amp (such as Don Garber's Fi X 2A3) or a modified chip amp (such as Red Wine's http://www.redwineaudio.com/Clari_T_Customization.html )? One of the drawbacks of the T-Amp is it does have a digital quality to it. Do you think pairing it with a tube preamp would improve that aspect? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7582 Registered: May-04 | I don't have time for an elaborate answer right now; but I'd be interested in your impressions of the T amp vs. the Mac 6200. What made you decide the Mac was the better of the two for your tastes and what final impressions you have regarding the SI T amp (at least as of this moment). I have a bit more experimentation to do with the Autocostriure amp before any more comments are made regarding its performance. Suffice to say it is what I consider a large step above the SI amp in sound quality and most particularly in its ability to portray real instruments being played by live performers who overlay an emotional intent on their performance and underlay a structured foundation all the while playing in a "live" acoustic space. At this point, the stock SI amp is an interesting lesson (and well worth the admission cost at the below $30 asking price, the opening post of this thread remains intact) but it is not much more than that. The Autocostruire amplifier takes up several more chapters of the book. I have done some more work on the Autocostruire amplifier, stripping out the protection networks and Zobels, adding a bit more capacitance on the inputs, fiddling with the feedback network (all of which are options provided by Autocostruire in their instruction manual) and placing a decent sized cap and a soft start circuit across the outputs of the sealed lead acid battery. The micro and macro dynamics are quite remarkable and supply that quality of frequent surprise by the performance which I find immeasureable and irreplaceable when the amp is used with a fully charged battery (the floating charger makes this a simple task to perform and I installed a switch to cut off the charger when I'm listening). All these modifcations and additions took place as I was preparing a simple enclosure for the amp and installing decent quality jacks and connectors. I still have the stock volume pot in the circuit while I decide the final configuration of this system. As of right now, I'm running the digital player through the Audible Illusions pre amp since it provides the ability to quickly switch to a phono input. It could possibly be the addition of the tube based pre amp is still just a mind set that says I need tubes somewhere in the system. The T amps go a long way to dismissing many of the "audiophile" concepts I have long believed true in audio. The tubes, while taking the level of quality up a bit in my estimation, must be adding some noise and complexty to the signal path. Neither should be a good thing; but for now they are doing a superb job. I am quite frequently simply amazed at the sound of the system even with $199 speakers in place. If you've been following "Tube Talk" lately, you'll know I'm having a difficult time assigning labels and find the "sound" of tubes or transistors to be much too generalize into neat little packets, piles and p00psheets. I have a hard time thinking of the Autocostruire as somewhere between two seemingly polar opposites as tubes and solid state. If I had to make an assessment at this moment, the Autocostruiere amplifier (but not the Si amp) is, other than power output, far more similar to my McIntosh tubes than to my Mac solid state. But, even that is overstating the case. The Autocostruire is merely another way to listen through to the music. Transparency? Yes, if I must use a word familiar to audiophiles, that would be an acceptable term. "Stepping aside" or becoming a conduit are more adept ways to describe what I am hearing through the system right now. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 343 Registered: Jan-05 | No, I haven't followed Tube Talk lately but, after posting the above I headed over there and saw your post and, in particular, your comments about the marketing of "tube magic". Very astute observation: "My problem starts when those words create an impression that there is something amiss with what we presently own and there is a solution at the end of your credit card statement." With all the audio reading I've done lately, this may be what is driving my current restlessness (see my comments on Old Dogs). As you know, I was very enthusiastic in my first impressions about the Si amp. The enthusiasm has dampened a little bit but I do consider it to be a very listenable if not wholly engaging and it is suitable solution for my bedroom system (in fact, I will soon be selling my NAD c350) paired with the MA speakers. Comparing it with the MA6200 is not an apples to apples comparison as the listening I did had the Si amp paired with the Toshiba 2109 as a source and the MA speakers and the MA6200 paired with the NAD c541i CDP and MMG speakers. I would not expect this Si system to sound better than the MA6200 system and it didn't. It's hard for me to articulate but the MA6200 has this visceral effect on me and draws me into the music on an emotional level that the Si amp doesn't. Beyond that, The MA6200 has a deeper (but not necessarily wider) soundstage, is richer harmonically and has better bass extension with more oomph (!) than the Si in my opinion. The one thing I can't deny is that the Si amp has piqued my interest in exploring other amp possibilities. The Si isn't the answer as long as I have the MA6200. But, it raised enough of a question mark to make me wonder seriously about trying something else. From experiences others have reported, the modded amps (not the Si) based on the tripath chip have the warmth and richness of a tube amp but with the detail and bass extension of an SS. At the same time, I haven't forgotten the brief taste of tubes I had last year with the Onix amp. While it lacked the low end power of the MA6200, it still had a little extra sweetness that caused the MA6200 to be displaced to the office - at least until Uncle Sam intervened. So, taking all this into consideration, would a modded tripath amp be a step further into audio nirvana? Or, is the SET amp the ticket to that ride? Or, should I just stop wondering if something is amiss with what I presently own? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7584 Registered: May-04 | SM - After decades of owning and selling consumer audio that is hopefully a bit about average, I find there are two ways to reach Audio Nirvana. One is to find what presents the music in a manner you consider convincing and then walk away from the idea that there is something better than what you own. There will always be something that sounds "better" than what you own whether it be truly so or merely a suggestion in a magazine or audio shop. If you've read the response on colorations which I posted on "Tube Talk", you know I feel that at a certain level of equipment, certain pieces are merely letting us choose between the various colorations which we find pleasing or, at times, are no more than new to our ears. There are certainly bad and mediocre products on the market and each piece of audio should be judged on its own merits, but taken individually, there are plenty of components we could live with and be happy with, if only we didn't begin to think there is the possibility of something better than what we own. We all get to lay out our own plans for what is important to us in reproducing music in our home. If we are clear on what we want and need to perform that task, the initial task of finding which piece suits those requirements becomes much less of a strain and keeping that piece as our main system becomes more long term. I used to suggest to my clients that they should consider a "musical" system since the basic nature of music is unlikely to swing in a different direction over the next twenty years. If the amplifier is musical today, it will probably be musical next year. If you pick a system based on how good a hifi it is, you will always walk into a shop or read a magazine only to find something new which portrays music differently than what you own. So the task then becomes understanding what is essential to bringing music into your home. Once that's done, then you can either sit back and relax to the music. Or, you can try to find other colorations which appeal to you more. It becomes a ladder you will climb until you reach wherever you feel comfortable. The concept of a transparent system is at the highest rung and it takes some very special gear to actually achieve that level with all types of music. Therefore you must decide how high you can climb and what colorations you can live with and which you cannot tolerate. The second route to Audio Nirvana, in my experience, is to have large enough pockets to constantly try something new. This relieves you of most demands of understanding what is musical since you will be able to constantly rely on someone else's idea of transparancy and musicality every time you change equipment. The problem I've found with this route, from my clients perspective, not my own, is you get addicted to changing the musical values constantly and even people who might have a clear idea of what is musical will dispose of the equipment that satisfies those criteria just for the sake of change. Just to hear a better "hifi" in many cases. I would never suggest the Mac MA6200 is the finest amplifier you could own. It is, however, a very good amplifier that can hold its own against many other designs. You surely know I seldom make recommendations on the forum. Can an upgraded Tripath chip amp serve as an all round amplifier in a high end system? Most assuredly. Assuming it meets you needs and desires. Can it make you forget the 6200? I have no idea. When you have something quite good it becomes a matter of increments that you will be searching out. Only you can determine what those requirements should be. Can an SET fill the bill? An awful lot of people think so. But an SET brings not only the low power concessions of the basic 2020/2024 chips, but the peculiarities which are exclusive to SET's. Can you live with those restrictions to gain the benefits? You'll have to decide what you can live with and what you would throw away before anyone can answer that question. If you can determine a reasonably clear idea of your destination, then it is easier to find your final location. I think I've said that to you before. The Autocostruire amplifier seems to be a very good product. I need to spend more time with it to get a better idea of how much potential is there; but, as of now, it could become a very easy to live with amplifier in my system. It fits what I need and does it at minimal cost. There's not much more that I desire, and after those two requirements are met everything else becomes a subset of those two requirements. But I think there are several amplifiers that might fit, at least my musical needs despite their financial cost. Each with its own personality to some extent. I have no desire to listen to them all since I am essentially happy with the McIntosh tubes and the Autocostruire that are presently in my room. With the Macs, I found something long ago that satisfied the majority of my requirements. Whether my requirements didn't change much over time because I had the Mac tubes I don't know. In my estimation, every time I was ready to move forward in sound quality, the Mac tubes were able to convey what I found myself searching for. I am not yet certain about the Italian chip amp but, at this moment, I would say it will stay in my system for a long time to come. There are listeners who wouldn't like the Macs and therefore probably wouldn't like the Auocostruire. So what does that prove? That there is something out there for everyone? Possibly. What I would sugegst to you is that you sit down and write a review of the MA6200. Include your impressions of it against some of the other amplifiers you've heard. Do not include amplifiers you've only read about. List the strengths and the weaknesses of the Mac amplifier and then list what you hear in live music that you would like to have present in your system. Maybe a refresher in live music might be helpful. Determine what qualities of live music are still lacking in your system's reproduction and compare that list against possible replacements whenever you feel an itch to buy something new. I would suggest you avoid hifi words such as "soundstage", "depth" or even "warmth", at least at first, and concentrate on only those things musical, not the hifi stuff the magazine's want to sell you. If you think there are enough things musically that are within the ability of another amplifier, then study the down sides of that new choice. Remember most SET's sound will change, sometimes dramatically, with whichever speaker load you connect to the amplifier. Stop thinking in terms of each new component and begin thinking in terms of what your system does. SET's are not going to like the Magnepans. Are you ready to get rid of them? To get a single driver design more to the liking of an SET or the chip amps? Read what the character of the SDFR speakers are and decide if the change is worth the effort. Think how each component influences the others before and after it in the chain. What makes the system musical? It is not just one component. Most of all, don't be pulled into change just for the sake of change due to a review in a magazine. Unless you have very deep pockets and intend to make a habit of changing out equipment. When I get some extra time I'll send you some more information that doesn't really relate to this thread. Is your old email addresss still good? |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 350 Registered: Jan-05 | Thanks, Jan. The more I think about it, the more I believe the amp is not the problem in my system. I still remember first plugging in that gap-toothed Mac and being drawn immediately into another realm of musical experience. Nothing I had heard in my house before had the impact of that experience and, in retrospect, I probably thought I had reached audio nirvana then. Surely, the problem now is I am being influenced by the testimonials of others for amps and systems I've never heard. I need to stop reading. I'd like to think about this some more but, for now, I have a major headache and I'm late for work. Thanks for your input. I will revisit it. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4730 Registered: Jun-04 | Ive read most of what you and sm have said here Jan and ive come to one conclusion quickly. The si amp is nice for the price no argument there but It must be paired with the right speakers to suit the listener. Having said that and paired the si to many different speakers and music and up against other recievers ive realized that an amplifier can have a particular sound and strong points that are inherent in the amplifier itself but it must also be paired to the correct speakers to match the users tastes and the amplifiers characteristics. What this has taught me is the answer to a questions ive long had with audio systems in general wether it be car or home audio. Long story short I believe attention must be taken on all levels to match all of your pieces to your tastes speakers, amplifier, music tastes, the feel, expected type of usage, and the like. I know no that there is no one piece is best or one piece fits all; it's all up to the listener and his or her desires much like an artist and his painting; to him or her it's a masterpiece and an expression themselves. This experience in general has taught me in my spirtual walk as well as helped me gain knowledge in the field of audio as well. Contententment is a word worth pondering for sure. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4731 Registered: Jun-04 | correction...contentment |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4732 Registered: Jun-04 | "I know no" should read....I now know |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7589 Registered: May-04 | I had those figured out, sean. You're heading in the right direction. There are plenty of things to consider as you put together a system where the components achieve a synchronicity which transcends the individual parts. Keep reading and listening. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mnr3Post Number: 26 Registered: Jan-06 | Jan, any update on the power supply from PE? are you still feeding the Italian amp batteries? I ask because I might try one of the two, but would prefer to go with AC. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7590 Registered: May-04 | My current source (no pun) of power for the Autocostriure is a Power Sonic 12 VDC, 5.0 Ah Valve Regulated Lead Acid Battery (the new terminology for a sealed lead acid battery). The battery and floating charger can be obtained from this source at a reasonable cost; http://www.action-electronics.com/sla.htm Fully charged the battery has an unloaded voltage output of approx. 13.7 VDC. The floating charger can be left in circuit at all times although I installed a switch to take the charger out of the circuit when the amp is in use. Putting the charger back in line when listening is done allows the battery to maintain a full charge at virtually all times as the current draw of the T amp chips is minimal. The sound with the fully charged battery supply is very smmoth and exceptionally quick with both large and small scale dynamics being surprising in their power and nuance. I have no desire to go beyond this power supply to anything else. Some reports have indicated the T amps work well with regulated switching power supplies and others suggest staying away from switching type power supplies. Personally, I preferred the simplisicity of the battery and the idea the incoming voltage would be noise free at all times. The sound quality with the VRLA battery was a substantial improvement over the rechargeable NiMh "AA"'s I had used previously. |
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Bronze Member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 47 Registered: Apr-05 | Well, my curiosity got the best of me and I had to order one of these Sonic Impact T-Amps. It arrived today at my office in a shipping box from Parts Express that seemed too small and too light to be anything significant. It turns out that this amp is actually even smaller than it appears in the pictures in the reviews. This thing is so light, I think I have empty plastic food containers the same size as the T-Amp that weigh more. In fact, a plastic food container would probably make a much sturdier case. OK, take it home and figure out what I need to hook it up. I found a couple of wall wart transformers, one rated 12V-200mA and another rated 9V-500mA. I got out my DMM and checked them. The 12V-200mA actually measured 22V-700+mA! The 9V-500mA measured 13.9V-2A! I figure the turbochanged 12V might fry this little amp, so the overachieving 9V wall wart gets the nod. I plug it in and switch it on and the red LED lights up...no smoke, so the power is covered. Next up is speaker cables. I have a pair of Halloween orange 14ga Home Depot outdoor AC extension cord speaker cables I made up a while back with banana plugs on both ends. I remove the banana plugs from one end of each pair and twist the bare wire down as tight as I can. I would have to say that 14ga is about the limit of what the flimsy, cheapo snap terminals on the back of the T-Amp will take. I have to be careful because the weight of the cables puts a strain on the snap terminals and the T-Amp won't sit flat. Plug the bananas into my NHT ST-4 speakers and that takes care of the output signals. The NHT's are only rated at 86db so I won't be able to go crazy. Finally, I need a stereo mini-plug to RCA adapter, so I scavenge the one from my computer sound card. This is actually 2 adapter cables plugged together, consisting of a male/male stereo mini-plug to a female mini-plug/male RCA's. Attach the RCA's to the NAD C542 CD player and I'm ready to go. I'm not really sure what to expect here. On one hand, all of the reviews and experienced opinions are very positive. On the other hand I just can't see how a little 6 watt, plastic, door stop looking amp can sound anything like Hi-Fi. After listening to selected tracks from a dozen CD's that I consider good sounding, I'm stunned. Within limits, this is a very listenable Hi-Fi component. Even with the worst kind of speaker binders and a hastily acquired RCA interconnect, this amp really sings. First the good points. The background is totally quiet. Soft low-level passages appear from a completely black background. The speakers seem to disappear, and the imaging is very stable and believable. Instruments and voices are right-sized, not bigger than life, or 1/4 scale. Probably the most impressive quality of this amplifier is the width and depth that is conveyed in the sound field. Sometimes the sound seems to come from behind. Now for the criticisms. Apparently, most of my criticisms have to do with the power limitation of the T-Amp. The T-Amp doesn't have the bass slam of a more powerful amplifier. It's a little bright compared to what I'm used to, but not really a fault. My main amplifier is a NAD C372 that most will agree is a warm sounding amp. My biggest criticism is that when it clips, it is very ugly. I pushed it a little too far on a few occasions and it sounds sort of like a table saw cutting bricks. This amp really needs more efficient speakers than I'm using now. My next test will be to pull some 90db Boston Acoutics out of storage for a trial with the T-Amp. Overall, I'm very impressed with this little guy. I'm pretty sure I can get more out of it too with some mods to allow better power and better cabling. |
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possuman Unregistered guest | To: Those seeking power supplies for the sonic impact. Am I the only one that has been to sonic impact's website and seen that they sell a power adapter for $20.00? What's with the searching at radio shack, etc.? Also, for those intrigued by the amp, check out the sound pads or the speakers featuring them. The Soundpax speakers sound great for vibrating pieces of cardboard. They're definatley not audiophile quality, but they're suprisingly good. The sound pads can be mounted onto the back of a poster on posterboard to create a speaker that does not intrude into the space of the room in situations where space is an issue: dorm rooms, apartments, bathrooms, cubicles, etc. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7936 Registered: May-04 | https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/reviews/209464.html |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 1989 Registered: Dec-04 | So,once again, what would be a good speaker choice for a computer desk speaker with a little bass for thr 'T'? Close listening position, 1M, and full depth(with a little+ bass)? Small speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8148 Registered: May-04 | Contact Tim; he has some full range suggestions. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2010 Registered: Dec-04 | Well I made it home(finally) and opened the box. What a goofy looking little plastic box it comes in! I need to open the case to solder speaker leads to it, but I am afraid of breaking it. Anyhow, the local dealer has Klipch cinema speakers(95db) for an outrageous price, I need to find something for less $. I will start with the batteries, and find some speakers. Back to the birdhouses... Jan, waiting for Tim's reply. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2015 Registered: Dec-04 | Tim has a pair of lings(broken in) on the way to me now. Woo Hoo! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2165 Registered: Dec-04 | Well, I have opened the case of the little devil and exposed the product for what is. It is exactly what has previously been described. However, this unit (1 of 2) is going under the knife. The power in wires have been replaced by external leads(14g) bare wire to be connected to any one of 3 supplies. I have the battery pack still available. I have a small L/A battery and trickle charger, I also have a Multi power adapter which is rated 12 and 14v(with 8 others),and I will measure the actual voltage before applying it as well as under load. The input is for a headphone jack, I have paralleled a pair of rca plugs as on option. The outputs have been paralleled with Monster thx2 directional cables, 14g, one meter in length. Interistingly enough, this is extra from woring the center channel in the theatre, I never even knew it was directional. Okay, I only claim to get my shoes on the correct feet, nothing more. Unfortunately, I find myself void of speakers to use, the Psb Alpha's have found a home with the son. After the operation, Mrs. Nuck commented that the little thing appeared to be on life support, as true as that may be, all circuits read correctly. Oh Ling, where art thou? The Lings are in the hands of the USPS, Canada post and the Great Pumpkin.(sigh) |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8260 Registered: May-04 | If you haven't yet, check my write up of the T amps for some just added links to the modifier's pages and other useful info for jazzing up the T amps. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2168 Registered: Dec-04 | Jan, I read your article as soon as it was posted. I'm gonna take it slow, norush, and analyze each step. I don't expect to take the little guy to the N'th degree, but have a little fun. Hopefully the Lings will be here for next weekend and I can try the proper setup. As well, my soundcard has no stereo outs, so its either a new card(why not)?, or try the T with the Rotel cdp. And thank you. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2193 Registered: Dec-04 | I blew it up putting the batteries in with the power on. Rats. |
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Bronze Member Username: RuvePost Number: 30 Registered: Mar-06 | http://tripathpower.com |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4822 Registered: Jun-04 | mine keeps turning off and on after running for say an hour. Im thinking its my springs getting bent from putting the rechargable batteries in and out to recharge. There could be a poor connection either from improper alignment of the springs at the batteries or at the other end of the amp inside the amp housing. Either way its a consistant problem and ive tried realigning the springs the best I could and still with no avail at fixing the problem. Oh well maybe ill open the case up and take a look. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3062 Registered: Dec-04 | Use a power supply, sean. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8715 Registered: May-04 | Cheap speakers to run on the T amps; https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/239377.html |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3088 Registered: Dec-04 | And there's no getting around how 'house' a stacked pair presents itself. Very cool, in an Animal house kind of way. |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4823 Registered: Jun-04 | i might try the power supply any suggestions where to get a good one for the t amp |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8727 Registered: May-04 | I still suggest the SLA battery supply. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3117 Registered: Dec-04 | That works. Just be careful, is all. A fair current in one of those (which is obviously better). |
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Bronze Member Username: GamerdudeOntario Canada Post Number: 67 Registered: Apr-06 | you mod those so much there great |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8788 Registered: May-04 | . Just a note to anyone thinking about using these amplifiers. The other night I switched from the Mac tubes to the Autocostruire amplifier while using a new pair of 90dB sensitive speakers. I'm not sure what happened because the amplifier had been running for several hours without any connections being changed. I had switched the amplifier "off", which, in my case, is simply throwing the three position switch between the battery and the amplifier card. (Center position is off, down is slow start/charge to the amplifier card and finally up is full power to the card. The amplifier is also wired to disconnect the battery charger from the battery while the amplifier is in use. So the powering up sequence is to first disconnect the charger from the battery, next throw the power switch from off to slow start and then, after about ten seconds of trickle charging the amplifier's capacitors, throw the power switch to full battery power.) This resulted in two "blurps" of sound from the amplifier as the full 12VDC power hit the caps. Then nothing. I disconnected all inputs and outputs from the amplifier case and opened up the top panel to find my 3 amp fast blow fuse had taken the brunt of the amperage and had done its job admirably. It was now deceased but the amplifier was, after inserting a new fuse, ready to play music. I replaced the 3 amp fuse with a 1 amp fuse for better protection and have not had any further complaints from the amplifier. The 3 amp fuse is still well under the amperage rating of my 7 amp SLA battery but I felt it was taking an unecessary risk to run that high when the 1 amp fuse seems not to be in jeopardy during normal usage of the chip amp. Once again I thank the Patron Saint of fuses. . |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4825 Registered: Jun-04 | Well I tried two power supplies I had that carried the correct voltage ranges for the sonic impact. The first power supply had a 12 volt dc charge with a 1250 ma supply. The second power supply had a 13.5 volt dc charge with a 1000 ma supply. And I must say there was a distint change for the better in sound with the 13.5 volt 1000ma power supply but the amp got too hot temperature wise for my tastes. I have to admit I dont no why the sla battery is better than the power supplies I have but I would appriciate a small lesson from you Jan. "Electronic school 101 per say" Thanks, Sean |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4826 Registered: Jun-04 | mine keeps turning off and on after running for say an hour. Im thinking its my springs getting bent from putting the rechargable batteries in and out to recharge. There could be a poor connection either from improper alignment of the springs at the batteries or at the other end of the amp inside the amp housing. Either way its a consistant problem and ive tried realigning the springs the best I could and still with no avail at fixing the problem. Oh well maybe ill open the case up and take a look. ps...The problem I had before was my battery compartment no problems occured while using the power supplies. back to my question at hand.... Well I tried two power supplies I had that carried the correct voltage ranges for the sonic impact. The first power supply had a 12 volt dc charge with a 1250 ma supply. The second power supply had a 13.5 volt dc charge with a 1000 ma supply. And I must say there was a distint change for the better in sound with the 13.5 volt 1000ma power supply but the amp got too hot temperature wise for my tastes. I have to admit I dont no why the sla battery is better than the power supplies I have but I would appriciate a small lesson from you Jan. "Electronic school 101 per say" Thanks, Sean |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8805 Registered: May-04 | . I can only assume the power supplies you have used are not regulated supplies. This means the amperage and voltage are not constant. There is some debate as to which power source is better for the T amps. Some people like regulated power supplies with a transformer ans some like the SLA battery approach. Both of those power sources are capable of constant voltage no matter the variance in the incoming line voltage and they will not droop when the dynamic peaks hit. The battery supply has the advantage of having no AC ripple introduced to the amplifier's power supply. DC voltage is dead quiet while AC voltage has the sonic signature of the alternating current. An audio amplifier of any sort today is essentially a modulated power supply. Any noise introduced into the power supply will have a signature on the sound quality. The disadvantage to batteries is the limited use time. This isn't much of a problem with the medium amperage SLA's and a floating charger. The Autocostruire amp has run for several hours with no signs of giving up when disconnected from the charger. I flip a switch and, after listening for a few hours, the battery charges while I sleep. Nuck feels uncomfortable with SLA's in his room but this is the sort of battery used in emergency exit lights and back up power supplies. The unspillable lead acid batteries should be safe unless subjected to extreme heat. . |
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Gold Member Username: InsearchofbassPost Number: 4827 Registered: Jun-04 | Thanks Jan I appreciate your reply. |
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New member Username: FtalifePost Number: 4 Registered: Jul-06 | Thank you for the info. |
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New member Username: Jaques_strappPost Number: 8 Registered: Jul-06 | Hi everyone! I read this whole thing. I've been looking for something to use with an active x-over for the high frequencies. Since tube amps are spendy this seems like a good alternative. I notice 3 way active x-overs for under $100 on ebay. Some have up to 24 db slopes! They are intended for musicians but I don't see why they wouldn't work at home. This would greatly improve the efficiency of these little amps. What say you guys? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9317 Registered: May-04 | . The small T amps would work well as a tweeter amplifier. |
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