Front Vienna Acoustics: But different company speakers for rear ? Please advice.
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Shekhar. Unregistered guest | Happy holidays All, I am planning on getting Vienna acoustics Bach Grand floor standing speakers for the fronts($1700/pair), Vienna acoustics Center($650), Denon AVR3806 receiver($1100). But Vienna rears are pretty expensive. So to save some money, I am thinking of getting Definitive tech Pro satellite 100 for rear(it has very good reviews, they are $400/pair, verses Vienna rear are 1000/pair). So basically, Fronts and center are perfectly matching. Question is for rear: Does it really make big difference to have the same company's, same family's, speakers for Rear? What i think is, rear is used may be 15% of the times in movie, and none while listening to just music. I know they say, it's best to match all speakers, but I also thinking of being practical..  Wondering how would it matter to use Def tech rears? Or am I compromising a whole lot on the system(considering am already spending 4.5 grand)? Wondering how much % difference it would make while listening to 1. movie and 2. Music. Or do you think i should spend $600 more and get the matching rears? Thanks so much for your time. -Shekhar. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 800 Registered: May-05 | Shekar - I'm not an H/T guy, so I don't know much about how different rears would sound for movies, but if you are listening to music in 2 channel mode, it won't make any difference because they (along with the center) won't be used at all. My main reason for posting - the Vienna's are a four ohm speaker. Many people here have said that Denon's do not handle 4 ohm speakers well at all. I have no personal experience with Denon but others here have. Here's a link to a thread where I asked the question before - https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/180304.html The last few posts are in reference to it. Personally I'd look into a receiver that can drive 4 ohm without any problems. Arcam, NAD, and Harman/Kardon are a few off the top of my head. Those Vienna's are great speakers. If I were in your shoes, I'd look for a receiver that could drive them properly rather than a speaker that could be driven by the Denon. Just my opinion though... |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1081 Registered: Sep-04 | Shekhar Although the output from the rears is much less than the fronts and centre, the whole point of surround sound is to project a uniform soundspace into the room. This is why you often hear the phrase 'timbre-matched', meaning that a speaker has been designed to match the presentation of another speaker. If you use speakers which do not meet this criterion, it's very possible that the resultant soundscape in the room will not sound correct and so the whole soundscape will sound artificial. This is more annoying than not having rears at all! So my view is to either match with the same brand or to find rears which are timbre-matched to the Vienna Acoustics or which can be adjusted to do so (such as Speakercraft which have adjustable crossovers). The 3805 and the 3806 can cope better with 4-ohm loads than the lower models from Denon. I don't think this is a big issue with the 38xx models. Regards, Frank. |
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Shekhar Unregistered guest | Thanks Stu and Frank. Yes, i called Denon as well as Vienna acoustics. Both think there should be NO issue to handle 4 Ohms. Denon said, we handle from 4 -8 ohms. None of them adviced me to choose other model. Same with the sales person i work with, he said, it's no issue, company give strict numbers to be on safer side, but they support 4 Ohms. Plus the speakers sound just great with Denon. I am not sure if the speakers i am looking into are timber-matched. Do you know how can we do that? I am hearing this term for first time.:-) Does anyone else have mixmatched speakers? Denon guy said, they don't care, and as long as they sound good, you should be fine. Thanks again ! Shekhar. |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 41 Registered: Nov-05 | similar tweeters will help with timbre matching, and I actually have now, a pair of M@k ss150s, that have been my surround speakers for a few years, they were integrated into a system which consisted of NHT 2.9s, and now used with aerial acoustics. Timbre matching is much more important for your center and LR speakers, you may notice some difference, but not much, the signals sent to rear, and surrounds are really for effects, ie. racing cars, spaceships cruising by etc. It happens (usually so fast) that all you hear is the surround effect. NOW, in music you will notice the difference significantly more, but unless you have a perfect room, with perfect acoustics IMO I think your fine with mismatched surrounds and rears. If wallet allows it is nice to have all matching speakers though. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 431 Registered: Feb-05 | I personally would NEVER match viennas with a different brand of speaker. Viennas are quite laid back, and ULTRA smooth in the midrange, I would be hesitant to match another brand of speaker with them. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2441 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm with Frank and Gavin. As Frank mentioned,"the whole point of surround sound is to project a uniform soundspace into the room". Each speaker has a unique sound that is best matched by it's like. Whether it's 10% or 90% of the sound that comes from the rears it will be noticeable when the sound pans and changes character from front to rear. It ain't a good thing. Timbre matching is essential. |
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Shekhar. Unregistered guest | I see. Now question is, would Vienna Acoustics bach timber-match with Definitive Tech Pro satllite 100? Or how do I know which ones will timber-match.. In audio room(Magnolia hi-fi), I heard those Def tech rears(just rears) and compared them with Vienna acoustics rears. Infact, Def tech rear sounded better. I also have chosen Def tech subwoofer. I believe that should be ok. Thanks, Shekhar. |
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Anonymous | You didn't like the def-tech fronts I take it? |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 42 Registered: Nov-05 | man oh man, I give up! I suggest you get matching amplification as well, otherwise you wont have what the manufacturer intended. Then you might as well buy a HTIB. At least then you know it all matches. Did I miss something? I said ideally matching is the way to go, but it IS NOT NECESSARY for surrounds, YOU will NOT notice the difference unless your room is a MOVIE THEATRE, even then, you can notice differences. Differences in sound are noticed even with matching speaker brands, Fronts floorstanding=more bass and depth, rears bookshelf=less bass, MUCH LESS depth, surrounds dipole,tripole produce once again MUCH different sound, EVEN if its the same make. 80-90percent of movie information is to the fronts,center, the rest to surrounds or rear channels, FOR EFFECTS. Get as close a match of the TWEETER for better surround effects, as bass info isnt sent to those speakers anyway(shouldnt be) Thats all Ive got. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2445 Registered: Feb-05 | Shekhar, are you reading what has been posted. If you are buying Vienna Acoustics speakers for the fronts and center make sure you buy VIENNA ACOUSTICS speakers for the REARS with the SAME drivers as the fronts and center that you are buying. Is that clear enough. If you don't care what the whole mess sounds like just buy any damn thing for the rears. BTW were you just listening to the rears when you compared Def Techs to Vienna's. How does that work...do tell? If you liked them better for rears then what's wrong with them for fronts? Sounds like a whole bunch of money wasted to me. |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 43 Registered: Nov-05 | art its too bad you cant come listen to what my "whole mess sounds like" If I covered up the surrounds you wouldnt know if they were the same speakers or not. UNLESS I played music through all channels. Sorry Shekhar, dont mean to cross talk, do what you think is best, AND affordable, and practical like you stated in start of thread. Art, you live only a couple hours away, if your coming through sometime, let me know, your more than welcome to have a listen. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 435 Registered: Feb-05 | David, reuarding your comment saying buying the same brand of amp for all speakers... yes that applies too. That really needs to be done as well. And no, you are more apt to notice the difference in your OWN HOME vs. a movie theatre because the speakers tend to be of higher quality. Im sorry, but using Athenas for mains and Bose 151's for rears (example) would TOTALLY screw up the timbre and isnt helped if you use outlaw m-200 monoblocks up front which are really smooth, and rotel in the back, which can be forward. The forward nature of the rotel would clash with the tinny, bright nature of the bose. Mind you, this is just an example, But I think you saying that timbre matching and amp matching isnt important is hogwash. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 436 Registered: Feb-05 | and saying that the TWEETER is of utmost importance is bull... the soul of music lies in the midrange. If you had a speaker that had muddy midrange and poorly reproduced vocals in a movie, or during music listning instead of making them dance around the room, you would notice it in a HEARTBEAT. and making sure the speakers have the same tweeter? Does this mean that because MartinLogan puts a dome tweeter on their center channel speakers that I can't use it with their electrostatic speakers even though it is timbre matched with them? I have heard the cinema i center channel mated up with the ascent i. Cinema has a tweeter being it is a center, with a stat panel handling the midrange. The ascent is electrostat from upper bass on up to 20k. Does this mean they arent mated to go with each other because they don't have the same tweeter even though they come from the same line? BTW, that combination works flawlessly. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2446 Registered: Feb-05 | David I'm up that way quite often one of these days we'll have to get together for a listen. My frustration with Shekhar was not that he was buying different rears it's that he wouldn't do a simple google search for a term. By the time I've thrown out a question here I've done a minimium amount of research. It's my pet peeve I suppose but I get a bit frustrated when folks ask us to do all of the homework. It looks like you have a nice system David and I'll bet you'd agree that it would benefit from having all of the speakers timbre matched. There are times when it would be more difficult than others to tell if rears are timbre matched but even with movies there are quite a few where the difference would be apparent. |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 44 Registered: Nov-05 | gavin, as far as the amp goes, Im well aware of matching sounds sonically with same amplification, my only reason for posting in this thread at all is how the thread started.....he made a statement about "being practical" and obviously didnt want to spend a fortune changing everything out. And gavin I do have to disagree about your "matching speakers with different tweeters, ESPECIALLY for say a center channel, and LR. NOW similar speakers in similarly made enclosures with similar size drivers, with similar tweeters will be difficult to notice to most people. Notice I say most. Art yes, I will be getting aerials for my surrounds in the near future, and YES I do agree that ideally having timbre matching speakers does help to integrate the sound more seamlessly, my statements are based on what I read his question to be, and what would benefit him the most. Oh by the way gavin, YES I notice the difference in sound on my CC5, and CC3, as they are powered by an anthem MCA50, as opposed to the 9s that are powered by a bryston, MUCH different sound, but not so much that I cant stand it, and dont enjoy watching a MOVIE, thats why it was important for me to get bryston for LR, so when I listen to stereo, or cds, I have the best sound I can achieve. There are many give and takes in this hobby that would be nice to avoid, but as none of us (at least that i know of) here can just run out and purchase 60,000 worth of gear, or for that matter even just a few grand just because were told that if everything doesnt timbre match it wont be enjoyable, I personally have sold to family and friends systems, some whole some not, that still sound pleasing to me when Im able to visit and listen, and a few of them are MisMatched gear, and although I am a very picky listener (sometimes pathetically) they still dont make me cringe. one last thing, most people that have heard my system, dont even realize that my surrounds are different brands than the rest, and also dont notice the difference in sound from center to LR. Art I agree, a simple google for most questions would be a great benefit to many questions here, but I am also guilty of laziness at times myself! Anytime your coming into town, and would like to stop by, your more than welcome. leave a post and we can arrange. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 715 Registered: Dec-04 | Wow, David, y'all said a mouthfull! As far as timbre matching, I have been fairly faithful, and well rewarded, but, really, what do the surrounds contribute to movies? A little bomm, little bang, I must state that the surounds are of little importance for movies(so long as they are not bose or sony yunk). Now, if you want to run 2+2 front/rear, then yes, the match should be as close as you can get, ideally, the same line(or as close as possible) |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2452 Registered: Feb-05 | David, you brought up a point that no one here has called me on yet but I'll fess up anyway. My mains are powered differently than my surrounds and center. The difference isn't as great as not having the speakers timbre matched but there is still a difference. Aerial speakers are marvelous and I hope to someday have a great set of speakers. For now I'll enjoy what I have. Your points are well taken. |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 46 Registered: Nov-05 | gavin, are you reading your posts before posting? "the soul of the MUSIC lies in the midrange" since we are not talking about the music obviously since his questions were related to SURROUND speakers (for effect), I give up. Hey nuck, thanks for the input, almost thought my 36 years of listening was done wrong! wouldve had to change everything and start over! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 717 Registered: Dec-04 | Nah, David, youre on the money. Just out of the mouths of babes and fools quote I |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 438 Registered: Feb-05 | David, yes I am reading my posts before posting. you didn't read further down where I said that vocals don't only apply to music, but movies as well now did you david? "If you had a speaker that had muddy midrange and poorly reproduced vocals in a MOVIE, or during music listning instead of making them dance around the room, you would notice it in a HEARTBEAT" My point is that if I am going to have to put up with mismatched gear, I will blow my wad on tremendous mains and a center, and a decent amp (or 5 monoblocks) and leave the surrounds out of the picture until I can afford to purchase all from the same company. |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 49 Registered: Nov-05 | "the soul of the music lies in the midrange" TO WHOM? no need for the ride cymbal, no need for high notes on a female voice, no need to hear high notes on a lead guitar, hell, I guess even pianos dont carry high notes, oh I forgot about the bass in a singers voice, or low notes on a bass, or the KICK drum(the list goes on) THE SOUL OF THE MUSIC IS THE MUSIC ALL of it. Have your last say, and let this thread be done. We havent helped this guy at all, if anything hes more confused now, than when he originally posted. Gavin, your knowledge exceeds your smarts...and vice versa |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 441 Registered: Feb-05 | the soul of the music lies in the midrange because 75% of the music lies in the midrange...that's why. I admit I am not good at wording what I want to say, and didn't want to start a flame war between us. That was the basis for my whole arguement, and I never correctly stated it. my apologies. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 753 Registered: Dec-04 | I get your point, Gavin, and yes it is true. Davd, you are getting flamed up here, good to see! Thats why we hang out here, no? I will digress to the rears not being of critical importance in the scenario of movies, so long as they are not shite. HOWEVER, for 4 channel, A+B listening, the back pair MUST timbre match the fronts. I run this way sometimes, and a mismatch is as obvious as a half-bone in loose trousers. However, I cannot yet accept the amp-matching-speakers concept. Pre-amp, uhh, no. Source player, maybe. I have run my speakers with NAD(recommended with Psb, sister company), Marantz(don't ask why) and H/K)original receiver). I settled on the Rotel amp with H/K receiver as pre, and never looked back. The others worked ok, except the Marantz, which couldnt run the low impedance of the speakers. While I did hear a difference between powers, I found the Rotel to be able to run higher volumes, with lots left on the dial to run my stuff. I think the underlying power available is what I heard most. If that is what matches amps to speakers best, then thats what I got. But I do ramble on... |
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Shekhar. Unregistered guest | All, Thanks everyone for valuable inputs !! I must agree some of the terms are new/confusing to me, but I get the overall point. I agree with David that your system may sound just right even with different rears. Finally, I got home my system on the weekend. Played 2-3 movies so far. Saving Private Ryan, and one Indian movie. I did NOT feel any difference in rears, nor did I feel that rears are mismatching. I was thinking that if there is mismatch, the Jet plane which goes from your Front speaker, will sound like 747 in Rear speakers or something along those lines. but none of that happens. The bullet sound, blasts sound very matching with rears. In the indian movie, there was a scene where female is singing, and her sound moves to rear speakers(in the same breath). It also sounded very matched. I didn't feel the difference in sound. I haven't tried much with Music yet, but so far from those 2-3 movies, I see no issues. Again, I know its best to match, but need to be practicle and see the "VALUE" in spending money, if by spending $600 more, i am going to notice 5% difference in only few cases, I would rather utilize that somewhere else(buy an iPod or something) :-) This set up is definitely not "A Mess".. Other intersting thing is, Vienna recommends Berg as one of the matching speakers for your Bach fronts. Now, as someone said in this thread, those speakers vary in design. Bach are made in wooden frame, long floor standing, where as Berg are in Silver metal frame with hardly any extra space behind/around the midrange and twiter. I don't get how would they truely 100% match.. For true matching, you should have same same speakers in back... which many of them don't have.. They might have same company, but different design.. So there you go.... I guess, people start some compromise right there.. I know it's much Less compromise than having different brand speakers.. but if you want to be perfect, then why even go for such small compromises? ;-) I will have to try on music and test now. -Shekhar. |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 51 Registered: Nov-05 | Shekhar, glad to see you back on this thread! thought we lost you due to some of our differences! Also nice to see you got something you enjoy! And can say you did it while saving a buck....or two! Let us know how the music sounds, Im guessing youll be keeping us informed? BTW-welcome to the world of mismatched surrounds! er......what surrounds! |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 443 Registered: Feb-05 | just as long as you don't pair Bose (or anything on the same plane) with those fantastic speakers, Shekhar! I'm sure it will sound fine. |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 55 Registered: Nov-05 | Little change of pace gavin? good to see! and Cmon....bose is fantastic! Gavin, have my setup in bragging area, under almost done, take a look if youd like. Notice the surrounds are different, but I can tell you, they still integrate very well with present setup. Merry Christmas to all, and to all...........well, we'll talk later Im sure. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1096 Registered: Sep-04 | David, Bose fits a niche, but fantastic is not a word found in that niche. Other words may be used and even 'good' might make it in (on a bad night) but that's about the best of it. Having different amplifiers with a homogenous speaker system is not as bad as having a homogenous set of amps with mismatched speakers. Anyone who can't hear mismatched speakers at the back or centre is either deluding themselves or hasn't heard a decent surround sound system. Mismatched speakers is not necessarily the same as saying speakers of the same brand. Having same-brand speakers is a way of reducing the lielihood of mismatched speakers. Gaving different-brand speakers in your system is a method for running the risk of mismatched speakers. Now it's all very well saying that the rears accounf for less than 15% of the sound int he system. The fact remains that if the rears are inherently bright and the fronts inherently smooth, the change in the soundfield from front to back is significant, will be heard, and will break the illusion that the soundfield is meant to create. This applies to music and film. Strictly speaking, in the case of music, all the speakers should be exactly the same from left, centre, right through right surround and left surround. With movies you can get away with different speaker models so long as they're timbre-matched. I haven't heard a proper music surround setup that works yet - in my opinion. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 57 Registered: Nov-05 | Frank, no argument here, except in my setup even, I have different surrounds, same speaker mnfctr for LF,RF,C,R, and you cannot tell their different, and I am certainly not hearing them as an entirely different presence. There is also much more that was said in this thread that is possible you skipped over. I agree wholeheartedly though about the music (if your running all channels) that the same exact speaker in each location is the only way to meet expected sonic imaging, though in my case I like to listen to my music in stereo, even in mono on occasion depending on what Im listening to, so for me that is not an issue. I think Shekhar found a good match for himself, and will be very content with it as it is,....... now is it ideal? for him I say yes,especially since he said he did not notice difference in presentation of effects and a female voice from front through his surrounds, so apparantly his setup is a pretty good timbe match. This is all subject to debate, as everything is, and I only hold the patent on what opinions I myself have, and dont claim anything beyond that. If you, me, or anyone else starts telling others what is "the only way" then how do we really know what is workable and what is not through other peoples experiences? Merry Christmas! Dave |
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Shekhar Unregistered guest | Thanks guys !!!! I have one more question.. This time with Subwoofer. With the same set up I have.. That is: Vienna Bach fronts, Vinenna Theatro Center, Denon AVR3806 receiver, Def Tech ProCinema 100 rears, I have Def. tech Supercube III as my subwoofer. It is very powerful, and sounded very effective for movies. But I was wondering if it's a good sub for music as well? I haven't had much chance to analyze music yet, but i was wondering if I should go for Something like Velodyn or Rel? My budget can allow me around $700 or so.. What I like about Velodyn is the remote controll for controling base.. And a rep was telling me Rel Q150 ($700) will be much tighter, accurate and more responsive than Supercube III($500). He was saying Vinennas are tested with Rel subs. If the sound difference will be significant or easily noticiable while listening to music I am ok to spend few hundred dollars more.. Btw, I am not the person who loves house to be shaken up. But a nice bass/accurate will be great.. Any experience on this ? Btw, I think Denon 3806 has that auto mike set up thing, using which it sets up the speakers. I think I can use for timber matching speakers and sub. Thanks, Shekhar. |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 58 Registered: Nov-05 | YES to either REL or Velodyne. If you can get into the velodyne DD12 your set. |
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Shekhar Unregistered guest | David, Thanks ! I know that, higher end REL or Velodyn are the best subs. But would you say, REL Q150($700) will be much better than supercube III? Am wondering if it's worth trading in Supercube III with REL Q150 or a $700 price range Velodyn? regards, Shekhar. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1102 Registered: Sep-04 | Shekhar The Q150 is designed primarily for Home Theatre, not music. FOr music, you need to be looking at REL's ST range. The entry level is the REL Stampede. This is a brilliant sub. It's very small with only an 8 inch drive unit and yet it goes very deep, very tight and fast. If Vienna test their speakers with REL subs, then you also know they will match timbrally. The Stampede is more money than you wish to spend, but if you truly want an improvement in sonic quality, and since you already have an entry level sub, there is little point in going for another 'almost entry level' sub. I would save up for a few more months until I could afford one of the better subs. By the way, the REL Stampede is also remote controlled with several program modes. However, it's not quite as sophisticated as the full EQ programming of the Velodynes. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2482 Registered: Feb-05 | The Era subs are designed by Michael Kelly of Aerial to compete directly with REL subs at a lower cost. http://www.signalpathint.com/Era/ERA%20MAIN.htm http://www.goodwinshighend.com/speaker.htm#era |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 59 Registered: Nov-05 | Shekhar, as you know I have aerial speakers, I also demod the aerial SW12 sub from aerial which has gotten awesome reviews, I also demod the velodyne DD15 and in IMO the velodyne sounded more musical, now keep in mind the aerial sub was at a dissadvantage to begin with as it was placed in a more visual location for exposure, which Im certain limited its response and depth. But besides the sound of the velodyne, what I really liked about it was everything that came with it to integrate it into ANY system, in ANY room. Google velodyne DD12 to get all the specs, and goodies on this sub. ALSO DONT let ANYONE here tell you that your sub has to be timbre matched, that is the most ridiculous thing Ive read up to date on these forums, and IMO if you did trade even for REL entry level, or velodyne entry level you will have a better sub, but Frank does have a point in saving just a bit more to go maybe one level up in the velodyne or REL subs, If you can wait a little, or save a little more, I would say do that, and you will be pleasantly rewarded. Let us know. |
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Shekhar Unregistered guest | hmmm.. infact i heard opposite about REL Q150. The person said Q150 is "very musical" as well, and it is fast and tight for both music as well as movie. This was suggested by sumikoaudio.net audio technical person. Sukimo are the distributors of Vienna acoustics and REL for USA. He said supercubeIII will be great for movies, but may NOT be able to keep up as fast as Viennas for music. Hence I started the reseach for Subs. I see your point about waiting and getting the best sub. But here's about my budget: I wouldn't want to spend a whole lot on my sound system. I can afford to upgrade to the high end subs you mentioned, but my budget has already gone to $5,500 ( I started with $4,000 ). And if I keep spending more, my wife will probably put me in Garage Plus I don't spend lot of my time in listening to audio like some do. Having said that, I am willing to spend another $200-300 more to get a better sub. REL Q150 fits in that category, its $700 for sale, (Original $1100). Could you recommend anything in Velodyn around $700 range ? I would really like the remote feature.. and 2. Somehow, I am under impression that Velodyn is better company than REL(comparing same price range subs). True? Thanks folks ! -Shekhar. P.S. Thanks David for eliminating new worry of timeber matching the Sub.. My hair almost turned gray. haha. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 444 Registered: Feb-05 | I agree that the statememt that the sub has to be timbre matched is rediculous. My favorite designs in subwoofers come from MartinLogan. Fast, deep, tight, and musical are just a few of the words that I would use to describe their subs. In the $700 price range, I would STRONGLY reccomend taking a look at the MartinLogan Dynamo. If you can afford another $300, the ML grotto is servo controlled, and is also a rather compelling design as well. www.martinlogan.com |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 60 Registered: Nov-05 | Gavin, WE AGREE!! mark this day down(lol) Shekhar, if you can afford it, I say dont hesitate, you are putting together a very nice system and would cheat yourself by trying to save a buck now, bite the bullet, kiss the wife, take her to dinner even! But once she hears what your trying to do, she will grow to enjoy it. My wife doesnt give a rats a** about what Ive done, in fact she says I have to remodel the bathroom to even things up! But she does admit to enjoying what I have been putting together, AND she notices the differences which is amazing since she is not a critical listener. As far as gavins review on the MartinLogan, I couldnt say good or bad as that is one that I have not heard, so I cant help you there, maybe someone else here will read this thread and be able to be of assistance, My money would go to the velodyne though, as that is one that I have heard. Dave |
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Shekhar Unregistered guest | Hmm Being in software field, i tend to think of ROI- Return of Investment. So lets say if i upgrade to: 1. decent level valodyn($600 DLS4000 with remote) or 2. around $1000 velodyn(that's max I want to go, e.g. SPL800) how would my system sound different?? (I think I will be definitely getting atleast DLS4000 (mainly for remote and company reputation) I am new to subs. So I am wondering what exactly will be the difference by upgrading to those. I know movies may not be much since the Supercube III definitely gives a boom. So would music be MUCH MUCH better? and in what sense ? Bass will be more tight(not sure what that means)? It won't have lingering bass effect ? music will sound much smooth? Or much more? Please throw some light.. with specific examples...if you can.. Sorry if it's a stupid question. Thanks! Shekhar. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 448 Registered: Feb-05 | Shekhar, if you are looking to spend max $1000 I would STRONGLY look at the MartinLogan grotto. It is one of the TIGHTEST (but not artificially tight) subs that I have ever heard, and will intergrate with just about any speaker system with no problems. It is a servo controlled design, which helps to eliminate distortion. here is a link to more info than I could EVER give you. Keep in mind that this sub is fast enough for me to mate with my magnepans without reservation. http://www.martinlogan.com/grotto_speaker.html They also have a lower priced option, called the Dynamo, that is worth checking out as well. |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 64 Registered: Nov-05 | The tightness is how fast the bass responds, like a kick drum being a quick kick drum, and a bass note(single) being defined and quick. Music will not sound boomy, or like the bass is out of a box. And since the velodyne are pretty musical subs, dont worry about the sound with movies, once youve integrated it with your system, ie. crossover levels, volume, phase, location etc. your movies will sound even better. And yes music would be MUCH better. Merry Christmas |
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Shekhar Unregistered guest | I will check Grotto. I tried M.Longan Dynamo, but I could hardly feel the punch when checked in Magnolia audio. I guess, it is good sub but may not be that powerful? -Shekhar. |
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Bronze Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 66 Registered: Nov-05 | Shekhar, Velodyne DD12! you will never second guess your decision. Im getting 2 DD15, or 2 DD18s this spring, find a place to listen to this sub, you will be amazed. |
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Shekhar. Unregistered guest | David, Googled DD12.. Here is the result. Product search results for Velodyne DD12 Velodyne DD12. - $2,395.00 - NewYorkWholesaleAudioVideo Velodyne DD12 . - $2,398.00 - Dependableaudiovideo Velodyne DD12 - $2,399.99 - DigitalCraze.com You must be kidding !! :-)) I can't get a 2K sub.. Max I can spend is around $900 -1000.. if you know any Velodyn in that range that might be good. -Shekhar. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1111 Registered: Sep-04 | Probably the SPL800i or SPL1000 if you're lucky. Good subs. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 451 Registered: Feb-05 | Shekhar, What you were hearing with the Dynamo was a properly intergrated subwoofer. You aren't supposed to feel the punch unless it is intentionally put there by the producers. It is capable of a firm punch in the gut. However, the grotto is more powerful, with a 25Hz room control that can increase the power of the 25Hz wave if you are after a real kick :-) |
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Bronze Member Username: RikmeisterHometown, Pa Usa Post Number: 52 Registered: Jun-05 | why not look on audiogon.com for a good demo or used sub. you could save a bundle there. Or spend the extra money and get a good lawyer for the divorce. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2599 Registered: Feb-05 | Era Sub 10 1k. |
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