Has anyone connected a ipod using quality cables to a hi end system (I have a NAD/Paradigm setup and consider it hi end).. I was wondering about the sound quality of an ipod in comparison to CDs... My interest was peaked this weekend when visiting my inlaws he had a 20gb ipod hooked up to one of those Bose/ipod Sound Docks, the sound was "ok" but what got me was he had all of his music (cds and all) loaded onto the ipod which meant he had any song of any album he owned at his fingertips and ready to play in seconds with a push of a button... I just wonder about sound quality though using say the cables Monster sells for connecting an ipod to a home system.., I hope someone here tried it and has some insight and opinions trying this. Ipods are suppose to be "CD" quality correct?
the ipod is only as good as the codec and the bit rate used. that said, it is still considered inferior to cd quality. using the ipod on a hifi system is not really a bad idea, just not a great idea. the voltage output of the headphone jack is lower than of normal RCA outputs like a real cd player. you may get noise in your connection and you may have to turn the volume up alittle more than usual. the ipod is more of a convenience than a piece of hifi equipment. i franlky dont really understand why people need to have all this convenience. its not that much of a hassle to change a cd or use a cd changer. i have my system hooked up to both my computer and my cd player. i use the computer for music that i uploaded from my dad's collection. but i still use the cd player for listening to things i really want to appreciate.
^^ What Kano said is true. More so if you have a good sound card (no Creative anything or any generic Creative rip offs, I mean like a M-Audio or sometihng).
There is a point on an iPod where the mp3 gets a bit higher than it will output anyway, around 192 kbps or so.
As Chris says, the quality is heavily dependant on the codec used. On a quality system, 128kbit MP3 is exposed as the nasty, limited, broken codec it is. 128kbit AAC is significantly better, almost listenable.
Higher rate AAC (I use 192kbit) is actually pretty good. Lossless is by far the best and it takes an iPod into pretty good CD player territory in my view, but it depends on the iPod. In my opinion, the early iPods had better sound quality, but nowhere near as much capacity which defeats the object of the exercise.
I use the iPod on the big system as background music or when friends are visiting. That way I can have a whole evening's music playing on a playlist. If I'm really in the mood to 'play music', I'll get out a CD.
Onkyo now make a remote controlled dock, which allows you to control the iPod remotely (volume, next/previous etc.) which is a nice addition should you wish it to be your main source.
The iPod is only as good as the bit rate being used. Lossless files and 320kbs AAC files sound damn good on my system. Pretty damn close to my CD player if you ask me. The 320 a little less though.
From what I understand the Onkyo unit only works on Onkyo equipment. However Apple just came out with a remote controlled dock as well.
Mrs A and I did a trial of a new iPod and settled on 192 kb AAC, too.
Just connect the iPod directly to the HiFi, and try the different formats and bit rates, to see which you prefer.
"Apple Lossless" is MP4. That really is the same as the original CD, in sound quality, as far as I could tell.
On any file format, there were serious losses from Airport Express with the analogue connection. Probably not with the TOSlink, where the sound is likely to be as good as the DAC in the receiver/amp allows.
yeah sometimes I almost wonder if it's the forum admins who do that, to generate traffic and activity which will jack up their hits-meter which will help sell advertising.
I would like to do the ipod thing and integrate it into my system sometime in the future. Why not...I like the idea of having as many good sounding sources as possible.
The digital music/movie server is the source component of the future. I probably won't go that far for awhile but "Apple Lossless" I could do.
vinyl/fm/cd/sacd/xm/ipod...wherever I can get good music that's where it's at.
Art... for someone who appreciates SQ, I can't understand why you'd go that route. I built a barebones audio server with 2 160GB HDs (which enables true lossless audio conversion - .wav) for under $300. And I can regularly buy 160GB HDs for $40 or less w/ rebates when I need to expand. Granted, it's not portable, but with 1GB SD cards at $30 w/ rebates, my Palm is.
GottaBeLossless
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Art... for someone who appreciates SQ, I can't understand why you'd go that route. I built a barebones audio server with 2 160GB HDs (which enables true lossless audio conversion - .wav) for under $300. And I can regularly buy 160GB HDs for $40 or less w/ rebates when I need to expand. Granted, it's not portable, but with 1GB SD cards at $30 w/ rebates, my Palm is.
I see there are posts thinking I have left town.. Sorry guys, truth is I lost a good friend Monday due to blood clot a week after his surgery.. I am very thankful for all your input here, seems like my idea here might work huh.. I have bought 2 of my daughters ipod minis and the oldest a iPod Nano for Christmas and maybe I should experiment with those first( they'll love Dad monkeying around with their presents huh lol), the difference in the two seems to be the mini uses a HD and the newest version the Nano uses flash memory.. Any ideas on which would be better in sound quality? Bottom line with me is I like convenience but good sound quality is a must, hence the reason I spent lots of $$ on a good home system, I have a NAD T752 with Paradigm Studios, Yamaha Natural Sound CD (older but I love the sound it gives) and my good old Technics Quartz Turntable which unfortunately I believe is on it's last legs .. I do have a lot of deciphering to do here, AAC, 128 vs 192kbit vs 320kbs, Lossless is all new to me which means I got some reading up to do... But I really would like some thoughts on the HD iPods vs the Flashmemory iPods.. You guys here helped me incredibly in researching my current system which I've had for almost 2 years now and love it and trust your opinions greatly...
Condolences, Paul. I lost a friend of mine just 10 days ago (funeral's tomorrow). he was 31, married with 2 kids. I was gobsmacked, especially since he was 6ft 4inch tall, fit, and a picture of health to look at. Turns out he had an enlarged heart. Could've happened anytime.
Brings one closer to one's own motality doesn't it?
I have tried various formats with an ear to sound quality.
On my system there are numerous options in iTunes
iTunes > Preferences > Advanced > Importing
The default setting is Apple's aac at 128 kbps I think, which is better than mp3 at the same bit rate, but still designed for people who want "thousands of songs in your pocket" and are not so bothered with sound quality.
At the other end, you can import CD files as wav or aiff files at up to the original CD specification, which is 16 bit, 44.1 kHz, stereo.
In my opinion, that makes the iPod "high end"- the limiting factor then becomes the inbuilt Digital-to-Analogue Converter. In the original full-size iPod it was not at all bad, and the results are equal to CD played in a reasonable CD player. I read in HiFi news that the "mini" did not have such a good D-A-C. I do not know about the nano or the latest full-size iPod, but with the latter (a present for the wife!) we tried saving "Dark Side of the Moon" CD tracks at different settings.
I would have chosen "Apple Lossless" which to my ears was as good as the CD played on an NAD T533 player. The file sizes are about half those of 16-bit 44.1 kHz, but that was not enough for Mrs A who listens on headphones, while on the go. So she settled for aac at 192 kHz, which gives file sizes about 1/10 those of the original CD tracks.
Rule of thumb: a CD has about 650 MB of information.
1 GB equals 1,000 MB. That is about three CDs-worth.
So a 30 GB iPod will store roughly 30 x 3, equals, say, 100 CDs at native resolution.
Or 200 CDs in Apple Lossless format.
Or 1,000 CDs at 192 kbps aac.
It is all a trade-off between number of tracks ("songs") and sound quality.
Apple "Lossless" means the file sizes are a little smaller (about half the size as on the CD) but it is achieved by digital packing, not by missing out audio information. Like "zip" compression of computer files.
So, I think an "audiophile" would go for full-strength .aiff, or, probably just as good, Apple Lossless, and take it from there.
Just get a mini-jack to RCA cable and use it to connect the iPod as a source to a decent HiFi; any audio input to your NAD receiver would do - probably "tape in" will give the best sound since it misses out the surround sound processor. You could also try the L and R channels of "Ext 5.1" for the same reason, but maybe they are in use...
"Art... for someone who appreciates SQ, I can't understand why you'd go that route."
I wouldn't as a primary source but more like background music. Like I listen to my XM radio. Just another way to put a variety of music in my home and on the road. Primary will remain CD and Vinyl.
Thanks all for the condolences, sorry to hear about your friend Frank, life's just not fair at times.. John thanks so much for the input, wow that was definitly a wealth of information you have passed on to us! And exactly what I was hoping for, as close to CD as possible is what I am hoping for, if I have to settle for something less desirable then I wouldn't even bother but it sounds like Loseless does just that.. Just for clarification you lisened to all the different formats through your T753 doing your comparision? Great point about the dig/analog converters in the different generation iPods, unfortunitly I would have taken for granted that would have gotten better with each evolution but this may not be a given. Looks like this idea is looking promising afterall, but as I have said all along the sound quality has to be totally acceptable to my ears. I'm just going to have to buy a really good set of Mini-jack to RCA cables such as the ones Monster is selling for this use with iPods and experiment like you did Frank when I kids open their mini and nano iPods on Christmas, don't worry I won't hog them on them on christmas LOL... I'll just do it when they are not using them, although this is opening a new door, my kids will want to play "their" iPods with "their" music on MY SYSTEM when they see me doing it.... It's just so painfull hearing some of the "crap" they listen to come out of my Studios!! LOL
You are welcome. I am with Art and you about HiFi, Cd and vinyl.
The object with iPod is portability, it seems to me.
If we sit and listen to HiFi systems, it seems to me we may as well connect a computer directly - all the iTunes files are there, and play just as well.
Also, if you have a WiFi (e.g. APple "Airport" card)in a the computer, there is a very nice Apple "Airport Express" Base station which send iTunes and has an optical TOS-link out - give it to the TOSlink digital audio input of e.g. a T753 and you are using that receiver's DAC.
I tried this with my older model T760 and the results were very good. You can even sent DTS files wirelessly from the computer to the receiver.
I still like playing discs, myself. But if people want audio servers, I cannot see what advantage they have over just using a computer in this way.
There is another advantage to the iPod idea for me which I didn't mention, I am a drummer and have a setup in sound proof room in the basement where I have another receiver/speaker system for playing the drums with along with a nice set of Sennheiser open-air headphones and and the convience of having "All" my music in one small device would make life alot easier in that respect.. Hence the reason the idea of using my computer as a music server wouldn't be what I'm looking for.. Anyone have any info on the quality of A/C converters on new iPods vs older models, especially the 30-60gig versions?
John, So Apple Lossless compresses the material to half of the orginal info, is there any loss in sound quality with this compression?? There has to be when going to acc obviously which throws that format out the window..
.. I do have a lot of deciphering to do here, AAC, 128 vs 192kbit vs 320kbs, Lossless is all new to me which means I got some reading up to do... But I really would like some thoughts on the HD iPods vs the Flashmemory iPods.. You guys here helped me incredibly in researching my current system which I've had for almost 2 years now and love it and trust your opinions greatly...