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New member Username: SoundslikebrianPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 | This is a bit of a technical question... so here goes. DVD-A has a sample rate of 192kHz in stereo (96kHz for surround). Sweet. It also uses a "lossless" 2:1 MLP compression. Once again... sweet. Dolby uses 11:1 and sounds like poopy (to me anyway). Now moving on to SACD with its 2.8MHz sample rate. Un-real. So my question is this: what is the DAC's job in a dvd/cd player? Most DACs I've seen in SACD/DVD-A players are 196kHz. How is the SACD sample rate inhibited (if at all) by a DAC that runs 192kHz max? Bit rate obviously wouldn't be affected at all because SACD has a bit rate of a whopping 1! Hope this is clear and I look forward to any replies. Cheers, Brian |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3813 Registered: Dec-03 | Brian, There is a description of the two formats from a disc manufacturer-distributor on DVD-Audio vs SACD. Plus links on that page. Bitstream versus PCM debate for high-density compact disc sets it all out as far as I can see. What has happened since that article was written, I think, is that "three-dimensional sound reproduction" has been extended to DSD bitstream in the form of surround-sound SACD. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6731 Registered: May-04 | BA - Sorry, your question is not clear to me. DAC is a Digital to Analog Converter. From that description, its job should be obvious. As to the remainder of your question, hopefully John's link will provide the information to explain why the systems vary from one another. |
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Silver Member Username: Arnold_layneMadridSpain Post Number: 431 Registered: Jun-04 | There are multiformat DACs, who deal with PCM and DSD separately. The two signal types literally enter the chip on different pins. Cheers AL |
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New member Username: SoundslikebrianPost Number: 2 Registered: Nov-05 | Jeez, I re-read my post and it is quite unclear. Here's the deal: I'm looking to get the Pioneer DV-578A-S because its cheap. I know there has been a lot of buzz, both good and bad, about this player. Here are my specific questions, that may all be asking the same thing: 1 - When you playback SACDs on this particular player does it convert to PCM or is it DSD playback? 2 - this might be a dumb question, but does DSD utilize DACs or is that a PCM exclusive technology? 3 - If it does convert to PCM, even though the SACD has a potential of 2.8MHz, is it playing at 192kHz as dictated by the DAC? I hope, if nothing else, someone sees my confusion. Thanks, Brian |
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New member Username: SoundslikebrianPost Number: 3 Registered: Nov-05 | ahh... AL snuck in a post while I was typing up my second. That clarifies a lot. Do, on this particular player, is it a multiformat DAC or PCM only? Where would I be able to find out? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6747 Registered: May-04 | At the price of the Pioneer (didn't see that coming in your first post), I can't imagine they have two separate DAC's in the player. You can find out which chip is used by reading a few reviews, possibly looking at the Pioneer specifications or sending an email to Pioneer. All you need is the chip manufacturer and the model number of the chip to then find out more information about that particular chip. To answer your previous questions; in SACD playback the signal is actually converted to analog. There is no way to retrieve SACD playback in a digital form. (I don't believe Sony has introduced any electronics here or abroad that accept a DSD signal though they are supposedly working on that.) While SACD is a DSD encode/decode process, many of the discs began life as either analog or PCM recordings. Depending on exactly how the signal is handled in the playback system, the SACD signal may be converted at some point to a PCM format. This is usually done when the SACD player allows speaker set up and bass management. These functions cannot, at this point, be handled in a DSD format and must be converted to PCM for those tasks. Since SACD at this point leaves the player as an analog only signal there is a DAC involved. When the signal is converted to PCM it is utilizing the sampling rate of the processor used for the specific function. My understanding is most often it will be a 96kHz processor though someone may correct me on that point. |
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Bronze Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 23 Registered: Nov-05 | Jan, SACD can now be retrieved in pure digital form between a Denon player and Denon amp/receiver both having Denon ilink V3. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6754 Registered: May-04 | Yet another step forward in the audio industry! |
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Silver Member Username: Arnold_layneMadridSpain Post Number: 432 Registered: Jun-04 | I'm afraid the Pioneer DV-578A DACs don't seem to handle DSD at all. AFAIK they are Burr-Brown, but a very basic model. The DSD to PCM conversion is probably at 88.2 KHz/24 bits. It is said to be a more even number in this context, 2.822.400/88.200 = 32 whilst 2.822.400/96.000 = 29,4. |