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New member Username: RoadwarriorPost Number: 2 Registered: Nov-05 | I got great treatment today and listened to a few Wilsons. Anybody care? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6716 Registered: May-04 | I'll bet your mother cares. |
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New member Username: RoadwarriorPost Number: 6 Registered: Nov-05 | I walked throught the door at The Audio Centre in Montreal today and had a look around. Nice store, lots of listening rooms and lots of employees(sales people?) I wandered into an empty room with the most marvellous stuff...Mark Levinson, Wilson, and Bryston..heaven on earth |
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New member Username: RoadwarriorPost Number: 7 Registered: Nov-05 | was I mistaken that this may be an audiophile forum? I read the dispute about Wilson speakers, and thought that some members may not have actually heard the pieces in question. Am I mistaken? |
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New member Username: RoadwarriorPost Number: 9 Registered: Nov-05 | The listening room measured about 28x30, 28 wide. The depth is tapered by a shelf, about 16 deep to accommodate the step shelf for the second tier of seats, a 10" incline. The ceiing carries an accommodating shelf, matching the floor, but offset 2' forward, providing forward visibility, as well as an unimpeded path for sound(there was no sound from the ceiling). The speakers, stereo only, thank you, were place rather close to the forward wall, corner wise, leaving about 24" of space in either apex of the corner, neither reflecting a hard surface. The roon was partially carpetted, the speakers standing on spike toes on the carpet, the 'open spaces' of the room being hardwood floors(no doubt running the entire floor space of the room) and a rather enjoyable space for 12 of your favorite friends! (More to follow there). John Banks, the President of Audio Centre, welcomed me quite well when I asked him for a look at the good stuff(this IS a Saturday), and allowed a bit of time for Frank (the big dollar and big music lover guy) until Frank had to be called away. Understood. After all, I was just a guy off the street, looking to review his store, and his best stuff for ecoustics,com. I fully explained myself to be just an audio guy looking to put straight the yatter about Wilson on Ecoustics.com. Welcome to the jungle, audiophiles, lookie se here! To Follow... |
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Bronze Member Username: RoadwarriorPost Number: 11 Registered: Nov-05 | The equipment today is as follows: Source Linn UNI (universal) one port cd/dvd player. Pre Bryston SP1.7 pre/pro Amp Bryston 7B SST (x2) and the speakers are Wilson Audio Sophia. First uo is Stravinsky. Cannot name the piece, but I used it only to sound out the room. All orchestral, but no bass drums or organ, of course, it IS Stravinsky! The sound followed the room quite well, 2 speakers only, and I could pick up the focal points about 15-20 degrees around the room before falling off focus. The sound is sweet, melodic, and on time for all the passages this recording has to offer. I am not a Stravinsky lover, more Rochmanninof. Yet the speakers offered the finest definition of off center sound I have ever heard. 18' apart, and the presence was right in front of me! Astounding! After coffee, we had a go with Tears for fears, again an off the shelf cd. Night and Day! The forward bits of the opening track(dont know the album), were tightly paced and accurate, agaun with the spaciality to cover the room from my seat. BUT WAIT, AS i measured out the room, the sound fell off drastically. What the? John saw my face and confirmed the obvious. Quote'these are personal speakers'. Meant for the captains chairs, all others can sit aside and find their own happy place. Rest assured,the system I enjoyed today would make any big buck audiophile happy in so many ways as it would leave so many wanting. Just give me the big chair, and everyone else for themselves! Personal nirvana...5 stars+ Others...who cares? |
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Bronze Member Username: RoadwarriorPost Number: 12 Registered: Nov-05 | I have been offered a showing on Monday(store closed) of all the best stuff in the store, including the big Wilsons(currently under power by Levinson k33 monos) and Spectral amps and processors. Any body want anything special? Just another day listening to 300K worth of music. |
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Bronze Member Username: RoadwarriorPost Number: 15 Registered: Nov-05 | Sarcasm ...That didnt look right. Just my FIRST day looking and listening to big buck stuff...sorry. Like a kid in a candy store. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6723 Registered: May-04 | "Yet the speakers offered the finest definition of off center sound I have ever heard.' Sorry, I don't have a clue what that means. What are you used to listening to as far as equipment goes? And, what do you use as a reference for making your decisions regarding equipment? Do you attend concerts of any particular type of music? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2317 Registered: Feb-05 | Sounds like you had a good time Tom. High end gear makes for great entertainment. Just be careful you don't get spoiled. I've listened to several Wilson speakers and found the Maxx 2's to be quite compelling. Wasn't as impressed with Sophia's or Watt/Puppy's. Much prefer the sound of the Vandersteen Model 5A. Sounds like an excellent retailer you visited. |
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Bronze Member Username: RoadwarriorPost Number: 17 Registered: Nov-05 | Alas, my only reference is live music, from piano to bass drums, live. Many many times. A poor reference for normal reproduction,perhaps, but Monday will tell. The invitation to test the best of the best, all of Wilson along with Spectral, and Levinson, will be special. I look forward t finding words to match the hearing! |
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Bronze Member Username: RoadwarriorPost Number: 18 Registered: Nov-05 | Mr(or) Mrs Vigne... I play in a a band and have for a few years. The sound at the end of the mix is my reward, but the sound on the stage is all that matters, the rest is up to the engineer |
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Bronze Member Username: RoadwarriorPost Number: 19 Registered: Nov-05 | Jan, off center meaning 'out of focus range' which would be the mean focus center of the mains pointed at me in a center seat. Other, I intend to mean other listeners |
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Bronze Member Username: RoadwarriorPost Number: 20 Registered: Nov-05 | And , yes, Jan, I talked to my mom today..She cares..Only a mom would know |
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New member Username: BoytoyPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 | And nobody comments on an actual review, yet rants on a simulated one... Oh wait.. maybe thats the difference.. Pardon me |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6724 Registered: May-04 | "Yet the speakers offered the finest definition of off center sound I have ever heard." I guess I'm very dense tonight. I still don't understand what you are referring to. Is this a matter of when you are seated at the apex of the triangle or when you are seated away from the apex? Does the "off center sound" refer to where you are or the sound from the speakers? "Out of focus range" sounds like depth of field in a camera lens. Is this what you are saying? If so, what am I to make of that statement? In general, the sound from very good speakers shouldn't be "out of focus". "The sound at the end of the mix is my reward, but the sound on the stage is all that matters, the rest is up to the engineer." Once again, that doesn't make sense to me. I'm not trying to be rude, but you refer to this as the best you've ever heard; but then indicate you've not heard any other speaker to use as a comparison. So how does that relate to what you're hearing from the Wilson? Are you telling me this is what you hear on stage? I know you know what you mean; but, unfortunately, I don't. I really have no idea what you heard today. Bt - Just what do you want us to say? What rant would you prefer? And, at this point, I'm absloutely confused as to which is the "actual" review and which is the "simulated" review. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6725 Registered: May-04 | I know you'll think me a dolt; but what does this mean? " ... there was no sound from the ceiling." Why would there be sound from the ceiling? "The sound followed the room quite well, 2 speakers only, and I could pick up the focal points about 15-20 degrees around the room before falling off focus." Where was the room going? What focal points were 15-20 degrees around the room and why did they fall off focus? "BUT WAIT, AS i measured out the room, the sound fell off drastically." ? ? ? I don't know how to respond because I just don't know what you heard or what you said you heard. |
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New member Username: Tom_thumbPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 | Sorry, Jan, I will try to clarify. |
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New member Username: Tom_thumbPost Number: 2 Registered: Nov-05 | I have heard a bunch of speakers, just not a set in this price and quality range. I know that price does not guarantee quality, but the 2 seem to go together here, for me. Yes I was referring to my seating position in the triangle, although the triangle was not perfect, as outlined by my measurements. By off axis, I am referring to my position away from the 'ideal' spot at the top of the triangle. There was no sound reflected from the ceiling, due to the nice ceiling treatment. Moreover, I was trying to express the 'focus', or centrality of the pair. The sweet spot is very defined, and John Banks could see my suprise when the sound really disappeared as I moved about the room, thus my 'personal speakers' comment. Sorry for the loose terminology there, I am obviously not a proffesional, here, just passing along what I heard. And I have no idea what happened to my name up there, BTW, I signed in like normal! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6738 Registered: May-04 | I am still unclear how the sound "disappeared". Do you simply mean the soundstage shifted toward one speaker when you moved off axis? Surely the sound did not totally disappear. Many high end speakers have a rather narrowly defined sweet spot so this can be neither a criticism nor a commendation for the Wilson speaker. There is no real need for a professional here, However, discussing your perception of the speaker's ability to recreate the musical event is often of value. We generally like to read about the speakers ability to reproduce the sound of instruments in a believable fashion. Does a piano, or violin sound convincingly like the real thing? Do you hear a sense of the space where the recording was made? Were both the micro and macrodynamics of equal quality? Those are the sort of things we would like to know. We all listen for slightly different items and generally do not agree that any one design performs all tasks to our liking. But, to give some idea where the Wilson fits into your "reference", it would be helpful if you gave us some idea what you listen to or how you listen, how you judge a systems's performance. Is that possible? Your "review" is apparently in response to the previous thread regarding Wilson speakers. In that case we had someone who had never heard the Wilson speakers but knew from what he had read that they were terrible speakers. This was, of course, all based upon his personal likes and dislikes as he reads them. In this case we have someone who has listened to a Wilson speaker but we have no idea what your likes and dislikes are. To give your opinion more weight, it would help if you could tell us more about both what you heard and how that compared to your "reference". Other than those among us who decide which speakers we specifically dislike based on specs alone, just hearing speakers and amplification in the price range of the Wilsons, Linn and the Brystons would probably impress most of us. Is this the case here or do you have more you can add to the review? |
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New member Username: Tom_thumbPost Number: 3 Registered: Nov-05 | Hmmm, how to type the sound is a very difficult thing. Big surprise! By disappear, the focus of the speaker, the best points of the presentation really left my ears when I moved away from the captains chair. The sound was still in the room, but had none of the best traits, or sounds, that the primary seating offers. Almost like being in the room next to the music, if that makes any sense. The sound is that focused. As a reference to quality of equipment and sound, I must use my cousins setup, because thats the biggest performance system I have heard until now, however, as always happens, is completely different. That system is Linn powered and speakers, I dont know the models, sorry, and he is on vacation. He has 2 mono amps and 2 floorstanders with about 12" bass and 4 other drivers in the cabinets.His source is Linn also, very close to the uni in the demo system. Ok. Highest highlights. The piano and tynpani combination of Stravinsky. Each note, each stroke across the tympani is clearly defined and in harmony with the piano playing one octave lower. The volumes were quite muted, and an ear to the 4-1/2" mid-high revealed both sounds coming in perfect time, in perfect duality, and achieving more high frequency than I would have imagined. Stepping back the field of sound rounded out more and more, until reaching the captains chair, where to stereo seperation became startlingly apparant, and the seat beckoned. The transfer of stereo duties was most impressive.If a string or low horn was meant to be left or right(I dont know the piece, alas), the seperation would be complete. Like dead nothing on the left. Only two passages did that, but if I can play some Beatles(rubber soul is on the menu next time), I may be able to judge better. However when rolling in of channels, a quiet drum roll leading to cresendo and splash, the transfer of sound was as if 2 center channels were taking up the space. Just a wave of building power, rolling like emotion sweeping across the room, and right in the listeners face. Extraordinary. I hope to try the bass of these pieces tomorrow. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 517 Registered: Dec-04 | Helen, Tom or Roadwarrior, I think you may have an identity crisis on the go here, 7 faces of Eve, or at least a visit to the Maury Povich show. At any rate, when you find yourself, and have another review, if you follow the guidlines as you have from jan, the reviews may be even better yet. Follow the instruments, let us know your favorites and maybe play some of your favorite songs as well, if possible. When I get back to Montreal, I will look up this store and go see meself, soundss like great fun. Please continue... |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1308 Registered: Jun-05 | I still think this is just down right pathetic. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6755 Registered: May-04 | How so? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1310 Registered: Jun-05 | Because, thats Baylesss trying to pull everyones leg.The man or woman has had 3 idinities on this thread alone.What you cant see that Jan? It will be back to first order crossovers before you know it.I can hear everyone complaining and screaming out troll,its plainly evident in his posts. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 383 Registered: Feb-05 | you know... I think I might be inclined to agree |
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Bronze Member Username: 2morexExmore, Virginia USA Post Number: 24 Registered: Nov-05 | I second the second. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6757 Registered: May-04 | But our contrbutor seems to enjoy the Wilsons. We all know PB decided he disliked the Wilsons as soon as he read the spec sheet. A ruse de guerre? A conundrum? Tune in next week, Bat-fans! Same Bat-time; same Bat-channel! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1312 Registered: Jun-05 | Behind closed doors the guy loves Wilsons,come on he is obsessed with Wilsons,like 15 year old boys are over Britany Spears.Jan its reverse phycology who in their right mind would pick a $2,200 speaker over the the $40,000 Wilsons,1st order crossover time and phase coherant or not,most of us cant afford them so we buy other speakers that we can afford,Bayless throws tantrums and doesent even own any speakers he went to hear the Wilsons recently and didnt even go to hear his so called favorite dreamspeaker the Green Mountain Callistos.Doesent that seem odd? Wilson better get a restraining order against that lunitic,he may make his way to Utah and blow up the whole factory and all of Dave Wilsons life time dreams! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 522 Registered: Dec-04 | I doubt its Bayless. He named the store in Montreal, and the guy who runs the show. I called and asked about Monday hours(I'll get to the bottom of this, dam the expense!) Open only for private auditions, and no, you cant get one over the phone. I think we got an enthusiastic noob here, forum challenged. Wait and see? Humming the tune from jeopardy... |
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Anonymous | PB seems like just the type of guy that would use the steel midrange reflex port from the WA sophia to stimulate himself. After all, the diamater should be just about correct ;-) |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 530 Registered: Dec-04 | feel better now, vooldmort? |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 537 Registered: Dec-04 | That was me, by the way. What a lotta laughs from a bag of rocks and some gold paint. Bugs Bunny laugh. I did hear them, and I am awful at reviewing them. Somewhere PB is tittering at still being a hot topic, every Troll's dream. |
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Bronze Member Username: 2morexExmore, Virginia USA Post Number: 28 Registered: Nov-05 | It's now tuesday!! where's the review we were promised!!! Tawaun, Nuck, Jan, are we to beg to hear from helen? You guys can, I'll pass. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6770 Registered: May-04 | Impatient lil'cuss; isn't he? |
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Bronze Member Username: 2morexExmore, Virginia USA Post Number: 29 Registered: Nov-05 | Well, after all that tease......the lady could have delivered something? Feel like we've been delivered a penguin. Hope you know what that is! |
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Bronze Member Username: PbdrPost Number: 70 Registered: Apr-05 | RD and Jan, You do realize that Nuck admitted to making this up. Or rather, making the poster up, he did listen to the speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: 2morexExmore, Virginia USA Post Number: 30 Registered: Nov-05 | Pete: and I am teasing the Nuckster back, therefore the penquin joke. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6776 Registered: May-04 | I'm soooooooooooooooo happy right now. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6777 Registered: May-04 | Nuck - I think you need to explain why you thought this was a good idea and what purpose you thought would be served by this charade. Now, along with all the anonymous posters coming and going within threads, we have regulars who feel like stringing members along with false and confusing identiites? You really thought that was a good idea? |
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Bronze Member Username: 2morexExmore, Virginia USA Post Number: 32 Registered: Nov-05 | Jan: don't you think that at least 3/4 of the anons are actually registered users, and isn't it funny that Nuck gets so mad at anons coming back at him. Can't have it both ways, but he sure got you. I guess you owe him one, big time. On to another forum we go... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6779 Registered: May-04 | Yeah, I thought I was being nice to someone who had no clue what they were doing. Now I find out I was being nice to someone who had no clue what they were doing! I think Nuck just got crossed off Santa's list for being naughty. And probably off some people's list for responses from here on out. |
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Bronze Member Username: 2morexExmore, Virginia USA Post Number: 33 Registered: Nov-05 | And that's not all. Wonder if he was the anon answering himself, and if this logic prevails, the "fu anon" was meant for himself! damn cannucks... I went back and reread some of this forum, he really got you, Jan! He must be rolling in the floor. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 544 Registered: Dec-04 | My post was as another user because I had excused myself for a while to tend to other matters, which, luckily worked out. However, needing a pick me up, I researched and visited the store, and wrote the 'review'. The owner asked about this forum, and I gave him some info, he said he was disappointed in others, and would like to try this one. I suggested he look in, but he had problems being a new user/member and wanted to know how new people were greeted, so I proceeded, keeping in mind that I thought I might not have the chance to be back for a long time, thus the Alternate identity, and to remind myself that being a somewhat accepted member, I can forget the way some noobs are responded to. I have never posted as Anon, and I felt posting a name would get me directed responses, and more easily answered than crossing Anons. I was unable to visit the store forthe closed door session, had to nurse a sick machine, instead. The store owner is going to bide his time, wondering if we were all nuts, rude or had pms, before things got friendlier. Jamie |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6781 Registered: May-04 | ? |
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Bronze Member Username: 2morexExmore, Virginia USA Post Number: 34 Registered: Nov-05 | Jan, I am with you. I have been reading this forum for a while and only recently began to post. I have never observed "nuts", rude, or pms. Some anons attempt some humor but all in all I think everyone here rather enjoys themselves, even the anons. If the users were nasty, poor edster would have given up a long time ago! Maybe Nuck is at it again. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 545 Registered: Dec-04 | Before things got friendlier as thr thread went on,left it kind of open ended, sorry |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6788 Registered: May-04 | ??? |
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nout Unregistered guest | Who is who?...am I the only person who's clueless righ now? Tom Thumb and Helen Alberta are both Nuck? Right?... because the audio dealer (from the Wilson Speakers) was afraid to register and log in?...why was that? This forum isn't particularly S@tan's stove is it? It's not like he's going to be monitored by the "enemy" is he? And why did some people think it was Bayless?...where does all this paranoia come from? |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 549 Registered: Dec-04 | Nout, yes, the posts were from Nuck. The dealer(owner) was disappointed in forum posts before, and wanted to see how a new memeber was greeted. Jans I bet your mother cares could be read several ways, I;m sure No this forum is not evil in any way, just not friendly in some ways. As the thread warmed up, and Q's wereA'd, it got better. The PB link is one which I didn't xpect or consider, but thats the way it goes, I guess. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6793 Registered: May-04 | ? |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 550 Registered: Dec-04 | Jan, your ? key is getting old. If you cannot comprende, or will not see anything other than the obvious wordage, then you are not trying, or are unable to understand. How shall it be s-p-e-l-l-e-d out for you? Please respond, so we can get more than a ? from you. I am not concerned ir you think me a lout or whatnot, your responses were appropriate, and tended to get downright advisable as the thread progressed, although expecting perhaps too much from a poster expecting too much from him/herself. If you can consider, for a moment, a noob trying to join in and give an opinion, however unqualified, you may see where this thread was naturally leading. Perhaps a swat for not knowing how to express the sound? Not using aknowleged verbiage? The review was my own, and educational, however the thread really got poor when PB got called into it. If apologies are owed, then I offer them to all offended parties. A short spout on how to treat noobs? Even ones with high aspirations? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6796 Registered: May-04 | ! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 556 Registered: Dec-04 | Eat my shorts, Jan. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6797 Registered: May-04 | ???!!! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 571 Registered: Dec-04 | MOFW, huh? Nice to see you shut up for once. |
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Anonymous | I got great treatment today and listened to a few Bose (Thats right, the MOST respected name in sound). Anybody care? |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 573 Registered: Dec-04 | I do, how'd it go? |
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Anonymous | Great! The people at Frys mostly left me to my own devices while I fooled around in their sound room. Lots of stuff to choose from, Onkyo, Bose, Polk, etc. The Bose blew it all away though with their massive soundstage! They made everything else seem kind of small and tinny with tipped up highs and bloated lows, especially those uber-expensive LSi 25's. Their built in subs sound horrible to me. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 575 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks for the feedback, everyone to their own. If it sounds right to you, and if you have done enough homework, then buy what works for you! Keep looking around, lots of stuff out there, but if you have found what you want, and can barter a bit(nudge), then get what you want! Happy listening! |
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Anonymous | ya know Nuck, you have FAR too much time on your hands to invent new screen names, and monikers, and fake Bose reviews for the rest of us to care. THIS anon contribution is actually from a contributing member that has DECENT ADVICE to give! maybe you should my advice, and take the d!ldo out of your rear! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 578 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks vooldemort, no Anons here, you can keep your opinion to keep you warm, I post only my own name again. Your jacket still suks. Get a name. Even for a day. I might suggest 'Uugly F-U-K ' |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 579 Registered: Dec-04 | Vooldemort, you may have so much time yourself.1:03pm and you are online? Do yu have a job? I am here because I worked 21 days in a row, what's your excuse? You are a coward. A nameless faceless blob, cruising the internet and this forum, looking for little places to insert your little mind. Find another little place, like between my butt cheeks! Loser, vooldemort! Your wardrobe suks more than you! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 580 Registered: Dec-04 | Did you have a question about the Wilson speakers? Remember the thread haeding? |
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Anonymous | "I am here because I worked 21 days in a row, what's your excuse? " I have also worked 21 days in a row. Or maybe I live in a different time zone. Or perhaps I have a job where I can cruise the internet. Or maybe, I'm a billionare that doesn't need to work. Loser, Nuck!!! My Dyson vacuum sucks more than you (but not much more)! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 586 Registered: Dec-04 | vooldemort, you are lame. How did you like the Wilsons when you heard them? |
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Anonymous | "Did you have a question about the Wilson speakers? " Yes, I have a question. Why did they let a lowlife like you near them? |
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Anonymous | "vooldemort, you are lame. " So are you. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 588 Registered: Dec-04 | Vooldemort, I come and see you. Give me your address there. |
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Bronze Member Username: 2morexExmore, Virginia USA Post Number: 36 Registered: Nov-05 | Now we have reached rude and nasty. Enough guys. Nuck, I like you wit but you dish it out much better than you take it. Relax, man, you deserve some crap after this fiasco and then your Clintonian excuse as to why. Let's close this thread and move on to greener pastures. Anon, you are like a stick in dog doo, the more you stir it the worse it smells. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 589 Registered: Dec-04 | Granted, and Agreed RD. Gets ugly quick. But this anon is such a ..urgg.ackk... I stand down, as you suggest. Thanks, RD. So who else has heard the Wilsons? |
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nout Unregistered guest | I thought it was pretty funny LOL Loser, vooldemort! Loser, Nuck!!! Things cannot get more fundamental like this! |
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Anonymous | "Vooldemort, I come and see you. Give me your address there." 436 14th St Oakland, CA |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 590 Registered: Dec-04 | Kids, if you don't shut up, I'm gonna pull this thread over! Ounce of one's own tonic. Gulp! OK I'll shut up. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 591 Registered: Dec-04 | perfect, I work close to there about once a year, on Telegraph Rd. We can have a.. beer |
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Anonymous | Just name the time! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 592 Registered: Dec-04 | I will call when I'm there..if you come to Canada, Toronto, ..do call. My Email is there, no? Gimme a call anyway jmacaulay3@hotmail.com |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 594 Registered: Dec-04 | For goodness sakes, the paranoina is running deep here, let it GO people. I never mattered anyhow! Use the Nuck name as a part of a funny line or something, just for laffs! Sheesh!!! Thats all I did anyhow! Let's everybody lighten up, no? |
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Bronze Member Username: 2morexExmore, Virginia USA Post Number: 37 Registered: Nov-05 | Nuck, I think it was one of the all time forum hoaxes, I mean Jan bit whole stock and barrel, you had tawaun all bent out of shape. After you exposed it, I had to laugh with you. However, this anon crap back and forth is fruitless, maybe I don't get it. Jan's gone silent, tendonitis! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 596 Registered: Dec-04 | Dude, it ran it's own course. I didn't set it up at all, the thing played out on it's own. I never intended to run anybody down, just played along, never intending to hurt any feelings, but exposed the forum to shortcomings(?) along the way. It is what it is, a roadkill. See it as a tragedy,or an opportunity, depending on which side of the dinner plate you sit at. I really never intended things to go so far, but am not any further discoureged, I lost the fun banter with Jan in the mix. So, as always, give and take. Once a weenie, always a weenie. Story of my life... But If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got. |
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Bronze Member Username: 2morexExmore, Virginia USA Post Number: 38 Registered: Nov-05 | amen, brother. Long live the King |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 603 Registered: Dec-04 | He say'than you, than you vera much' Pass the peanut butter an bananna sandwich |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6800 Registered: May-04 | Nuck - I really am not sure what "shortcommings" of the forum you feel you exposed. If there are any to be found in this thread or the original Wilson thread, I would say it is the short fuse displayed by postings such as, "I don't give a rat's patootie if you don't care", "FU anon", "All I asked is 'does anybody care?' Thats all, and all this grief?", "And still fu anon", "Eat my shorts, Jan", and "I might suggest 'Uugly F-U-K '". Whatever impression you were trying to make for your shop owner friend can't have been helped by those comments. Particularly when some of them were in response to nothing more intimidating than "!". That some of those comments were made to the person who was trying to be friendly to the new comer probably came across as quite inviting for someone looking in. I don't get it and doubt that I ever will. Not that it matters. As I've said before, this is just a hifi forum. And, no, you did not hurt my feelings. After all the insults hurled my way by people on this forum, it will require a far more concerted effort to manage that. I consider this thread over. I've certainly stopped having fun. Apologies of sorts have been made by the repsonsible party. Shall we just move on and hope no one sees this as how the forum welcomes people? |
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Anonymous | Nyuck! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 604 Registered: Dec-04 | Jan, moving on seems a responsible position at this juncture. I have enjoyed playing your little game of following the ? and !. I went in knowing fully well your lead and tease, and followed the bait accordingly, thank you for following the bait as expected. My thesis was needing a minor thread, and your lead has fulfilled my conjecture to a T. The following of a highly intelligent, loosely focused individual was filled so easily! Your quotes, and rants from old dogs have filled my logs, and when you 'loose it', the emotions and helplessness are words that I could not express myself. Thank-you for being the focus of my 'minor'. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 605 Registered: Dec-04 | vooldemort, what part of my shorts did you miss eating? |
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Anonymous | Nyuck Nuyck Nyuck!!! Actually it was Jan that had that pleasure Mr. Nuck. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 609 Registered: Dec-04 | Oh, now I have earned the Mr. title, vooldemort> How do you figgur? |
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Anonymous | Why not, ehh? |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 612 Registered: Dec-04 | vooldemort, you are an odd duck. Kvack |
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Anonymous | How do you figure? |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 613 Registered: Dec-04 | I feel like Anakin now! what have I done?! Could a Panny be next?! NAW! |
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Bayless is gone Unregistered guest | Check with admin. I un-registered here weeks ago. By the way Jan, Mr Hardesty DID in fact hear the Wilson speakers he slammed. On several ocassions. Over many hours of listening. Having said that, as i'm certian you know, in your many years (or so called many years) of retail experience, it is quite possible to judge a book (or speaker) by it's cover. And it is entirely possible to do so when said speaker designer is using not one but two woofers as midrange drivers. Especially when the MLSS data is available on said drivers on the driver manufacturers website which shows, quite clearly to anyone with half a brain, that these drivers are NOT intended to be used as mid's. (Didn't seem to bother Art Kyle though, odd as that may seem. Thats kinda like putting a moped engine in a Mercedes 560 sedan) They have substantial cone breakup and distortion in the band pass region Wilson is using them in. If your idea of a competent designer is one who cannot differentiate a woofer from a midrange driver,buy the Wilsons. Paul Bayless. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2395 Registered: Feb-05 | I was hoping that unregistered meant "left with tail between legs never to return", oh well. Strange as it may seem Bayless I judge a speaker by it's sound, try it sometime. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6836 Registered: May-04 | Couldn't leave quietly, eh, PB? And, now, after a combined number of more than 250 posts over more than a month's time (yes, I saw your farewell on the original thread also; one just isn't enough, eh, PB?), you now get around to telling me the author of the "review" did listen to the speakers. PB! That was my very first issue way back on October 28!!! What is the point of telling me that now?! No need to answer. We all know what your point is whenever you post anything. None the less, once again you have managed to take a swipe at everyone who is not you. For what reason, PB? To feed your ego just a bit more. For God's sake, PB, try starving the beast for awhile! There was no need to say anything other than goodbye! If that! It is exactly this incessant desire to demean everyone who engages in a discourse with you that won you the hearts and minds of all involved, PB. NOT!!! You never understood why there was so much opposition to your point of view because you never opened your eyes and mind enough to let any light in. It is your bullheaded stubborness and downright poor manners to which everyone objects, not your technical estimations. It is your desire to pick a fight with strangers that makes you extremely unwelcome on this forum. If you had just once acknowledged anyone else's point of view, you would have been accepted here. However, with your slash and burn attitude toward everyone on this forum and your myopic desire to discuss only two issues; you were the tumor we wished removed. You say you have "unregistered". That accomplishes what? Quite obviously you have figured out how to insult us yet again in an "unregistered" status. What exactly are we to make of you as an "unregistered" participant who returns once again as an "unregistered guest"? PB, your (lack of) common sense and decency never ceases to amaze me. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6837 Registered: May-04 | BTW, PB, why did you post any remarks regarding the original Wilson thread over here? Did you rightly assume no one wanted to look at the original any longer? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1324 Registered: Jun-05 | Just when I was wrong about this thread,well who was involved in it rather,but it is in my book the most pathetic thread I,ve ever seen,even before Bayless showed back up as a unregistered user.Nuck you are a funny guy and I enjoy your humor most of the time,but what was the meaning of this useless sharade that you created?This is without a doubt the most unuseful thread I've seen on this forum to date,even worse than the ones Bayless started himself.Just when I thought this would at worst be the worst thread of 2005,here you come again Bayless this time as a cowardly unregistered user now I see why it took you over 125 posts to tell us what kind of speaker you had which in fact turned out to be no speakers,now it looks like it might be the worst thread in ecoustics history one thing I've always respected about you Bayless is how you stuck to your guns no matter what any of us thought,but posting as unregistered really showed your true colors,and at this moment I for one miss Pauls honesty although none of us ever agreed with him exept for a few things off of the audio topic.Bayless your like roaches you might be able to get them out of your house but they will just go to someone elses and do the same thing all over again,what I'm saying is why dont you migrate your way to Audioreview,Audio Asylum,Audioholics,any of them just move out of this house,I hate for someonelse to have roaches,but you know the old sane better them than us.Nuck you are a well liked member and i like you to, your a lot of fun,but please dont pull another deciteful stunt like that again,unless you could join the likes of Bayless,and Paul as eCoustics outcasts. |
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Bronze Member Username: PbdrPost Number: 85 Registered: Apr-05 | Tawaun, I think that might be a little harsh on Nuck. He was trying to make a point with this thread and, in many ways, made it. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 793 Registered: Nov-04 | what exactly was his point peter? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1327 Registered: Jun-05 | Thats the point Peter it wasnt a point it was just plain immature,im not trying to be harsh to Nuck Peter as I've stated before and im not alone Nuck is well liked on this forum,stunts like this will get you on the exile list.What kind of reaction do you expect from members on this forum? So if you were reading my post correctly the harshness was dirrected at Bayless not Nuck,what I gave to Nuck was a little friendly advice,as you have already seen Jan didnt like it at all and other members will be harsher than that. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 795 Registered: Nov-04 | well i frankly dont care for this thread. the forum is based on our trust for eachother's integrity. bayless never had it to begin with, neither did paul nor did richard. nuck may have had some, though i havent seen any real contributions from him, but by doing this retarded thing he loses his credibility. just hope he doesnt try idiotic things again. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 648 Registered: Dec-04 | 1. It was an honest review. 2.I wanted to get an unbiased opinion of the review, thus the penname. 3. It got caried away in a hurry, often when I couldn't be around. 4. When it got ugly, I had to fessup, no fun being a goof for long(not too long anyhow). 5. I didn't like the idea of someone else getting flak for my posts, no matter who. Thank you for your time. |
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Bayless is gone Unregistered guest | Tawaun, "cowardly unregistered guest"? Tooooo funny dude. Someday many of you will see I was correct in my time/phase theory. In an earlier post, I was chastized by a few here saying one could not merely "look" at a speaker or the components used and judge it's sound characteristics. To that statement, I offer you "The basics" Knowing them, one can look at a driver, a driver layout, a cabinet, or measure a diaphragm's size, and say "Physics states this will obviously happen!" Thus one can spot how "this" is going to color the sound in a certain way, and what music will reveal that flaw- so you know if you can live with it or not. Air Pressure Sound is air pressure changing. Change takes time, and thus our ears hear by using time, unlike the eyes, which see by freezing time (blinking) or by ignoring time (scenes pass in a blur like motion picture frames). If air pressure changes quickly- higher or lower, we call that sound. If the pressure changes very slowly, we call it weather. If it happens instantly, we call it a shock wave. For fluctuations more rapid than the weather, air's response becomes non-linear when it is compressed more than +/- 1% about the mean static air pressure- the air itself generates harmonic distortion if compressed or rarefied more than 1%. Why? Because the non-symmetric O2, N2 and CO2 molecules start spinning around like dumbells, more and more, as you strike them together harder and harder. And that means some of the linear momentum (billiard ball motion) we desire goes into rotary spin, stealing energy from the peaks, which rounds over the waveform. We interpret that rounding-over as adding even-order harmonics. The compression ratio in a car engine's cylinder is 8:1 or greater = 800%[sup]+[/sup]. Do the same math for a deeply-stroking small woofer's piston vs. its cabinet's cubic inches- the compression inside the cabinet is more than 1% ! Then look at the air next to the front of its cone- again compressed far more than 1% ! No wonder a bigger woofer means more "slam", more impact, even when playing softly!! Less air distortion! Hearing Strong pressure changes are "louder". How quickly they change from high to low pressure and back again is of course, what we hear as frequency- or tone. Or do we? Our ears don't respond much to negative pressures- estimated as only a 30% response, not 100%. Lower air pressures do not "pull" our eardrums outwards, but just allow them to be pushed out by higher internal pressure. The outward "push" response time is slower (= less amplitude) because the eardrum's outward motions are damped by the friction of the inner-ear's fluid against the walls of the cochlea. One theory why we don't "hear" this as any sort of a problem: our brains "fill in" the missing negative halves of the waveforms. Another is we ignore the missing negative halves and count only/mostly the positive cycles as "tone". Then there are the Fletcher-Munson loudness curves- based mostly on headphone testing- the test subjects' bodies not excited by low tones. But we use our bodies to feel bass- one reason the "loudness button" boosts bass too much. The other reason is that studio engineers/producers always alter the tone balance and dynamic range of rock/pop/jazz/folk recordings for the best sound at a certain playback loudness, without any help from the loudness button (or sometimes with it, like Michael Jackson's recordings). From the air pressure changing regularly, we decode many, many different oscillations at once- more than a thousand different ones between 20Hz and 20kHz- our ears are spectrum analyzers! We can instantly choose which tones "belong together" or reject other tones entirely- neither of which any computer can yet do (not even close). We also hear the "envelope"- the "outer shape" of the waveform- that we see on a `scope. Certain envelope shapes we hear as beat frequencies. Others we hear as "timbre" or textures. Those shapes are created by all the different harmonics of an instrument or voice playing against each other- in time and in loudness. Hence my insistence that good loudspeakers are always minimum-phase (phase-linear) devices, as the timing between high and low tones must be preserved. Speed of sound ~1/3 km per second (=not too fast) & Once sound leaves a source, it always spreads out. Thus we hear sound arrive from all parts of a diaphragm, and we hear when it arrives. If it the diaphragm is 2m tall, we hear sound arrive first from its center point, and then from farther out, and finally from its ends a few milliseconds later- and so do our rooms' walls. The idea of a "line source" putting out a straight-sided cylinder of sound is only true for steady-state test tones, not the transients of music. Those late transient arrivals round over/smear the dynamic contrasts- one reason why panel speakers do not often sound "dynamic". A so-called "line source" or a large-panel speaker sounds "large" because it makes more reflections from the walls of the room (reflections which also posses all those differing time-arrivals). Yet if one sits in the true nearfield of a line source or full-range panel speaker, you hear only a pinpoint image, not a 2meter-tall image. For any music, from any instrument. Materials A material's characteristics, its properties, are described in several ways- and some terms are mistaken for others. A rigid material is one that does not bend or stretch or compress much. If you stand on the end of a brick, its atoms each move more closely together by only a few Angstroms- not much, so the brick feels firm to us. If we pile many of them together and then drive a locomotive across, they all share the larger load, and again, they feel just as firm. You might mistakenly call the brick strong. It is not. It is stiff. The measure of strength is how much force it takes to pull it apart. A piece of rubber could be as strong as a piece of steel- but it stretches a lot before it breaks under the same force. This number is the breaking strength. It is Young's modulus that describes the % stretch. Hang a weight from the end of a piano wire, and measure the stretch induced, a % change in length for so many kg per square meter of wire crossection. The force per sq. meter required to produce a 100% stretch (which would double the wire's length) is the number you see when you look up the material's "Young's Modulus". Of course, only an elastic band can stretch 100% without breaking, as the molecules "unwind". Virtually all stiff materials fail at far less than 1% "strain" (they fail after enlongating only by 1% max). By the way, "stress" is the external force applied, and "strain" is the material's response. Apply stress, and a strain is produced. Young's modulus is a number useful mostly for predicting enlongation in materials- fibers for example. You can stretch a rope, but you cannot compress it linearly- it buckles. So a rope is only good in tension, collapsing under compression. Cement is best under compression, failing under tension. Gothic cathedral walls resist compression, but the flying buttresses keep them from falling over under the roof load that pushes outwards- the walls have a low bending modulus. Shear modulus is how much force produces a given amount of bending. Shear distortion in a material is like pushing a large book sideways, watching the pages slide past each other. Bulk modulus is how much force is required to compress the material's volume- when squeezed from all sides equally. Think of a submarine- compression makes it smaller in volume, which means it displaces less water- so it sinks faster. Compress it more and it then buckles at its weakest point. When "this material is stronger", it has a higher breaking strength. When "tougher", you can flex it without it tearing or fracturing. Steel is strong and tough. Glass is strong but brittle. Glass fibers added to plastic make it "tougher"- cracks cannot propagate past the fibers. When a material is more rigid (more stiff), then it has both higher Young's and higher shear moduli (both are necessary). When a material is said to be stiffer (not stronger) than steel, that's a weight for weight comparision, not volume for volume. A kg of steel is far smaller than a kg of Kevlar. So what is the stiffness of just a little piece of the Kevlar, the same size as a little piece of steel? Just compare the (Young's modulus/density) of each- the specific modulus- to get the true measure of how stiff/unit volume. Trust me, I CAN look at a design, the drivers used, the crossover slope and come REALLY SCARY close to describing the sound of said speaker. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6884 Registered: May-04 | PB - Read your own nom de plume and apply it wisely. You have had far too much attention paid to your rants and disparaging comments. Either contribute something beneficial to the discussion forum or this is where you are finally ignored. Everyone can make up their own mind about how to respond to PB but I suggest that, as with anonymous posters, he should be ignored from this point forward. No need to respond to him, you know what the comments will be in return. Goodbye, PB. |