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New member Username: Mark_sSt. Paul, MN Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 | So here I am all set to plunk down a grand for a NAD 763 to drive my Paradigms (Studio 40v.3's in front). And this Edster guy won't quit yackin' about his little Panasonic digital. For two hundred bucks, I'm going to give it a shot. Just one question, folks: Should I pay 70 dollars more and get the one with the HDMI? Is it worth it, audio wise? (I will soon be upgrading to an HDMI capable DVD player and an HDMI-out Plasma or LCD TV.) I'd rather go with the XR55 becuase (1) the bigger brother is only available in silver and looks even cheaper and uglier than the XR55 and (2) if I decide to keep it, there's something really cool about the stealthy classic bargainy sleeper vibe of the XR55. |
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Bronze Member Username: Paul98Post Number: 85 Registered: Oct-05 | The XR70 only has 1 HDMI in, and no outs. I would just go with the XR55 since it's cheaper. The main reason you would use the HDMI connection is from a DVD-audio player that has HDMI out for dvd-audio. I would just go with the XR55 for now then in a couple years go with one with HDMI ins and outs. Though I would really like to know how dvd-audio sounds over the HDMI input compaired to the analog inputs. |
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New member Username: Mark_sSt. Paul, MN Post Number: 2 Registered: Nov-05 | Excellent information, Paul. That's exactly why I turned to you geniuses on this here board. Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2230 Registered: Feb-05 | I salute your adventurous spirit. After hearing the Panny I sure wouldn't do that to my Studio 40's. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2950 Registered: Mar-05 | Mark, now now, I'm not the only Audio-Heretic here, LOL: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=1251&page=1&p p=10 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=530504 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=417894 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=591368 Get the xr70 if you must have HDMI, sonically I doubt there's much difference though some folks who've heard/had both claim there's a slight improvement with the 55. |
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New member Username: Mark_sSt. Paul, MN Post Number: 3 Registered: Nov-05 | Art. I"m really looking forward to testing out the Panasonic. I will be as honest as possible. However, I am a clergyperson by trade and our reputation has been a bit tarnished by the last few centuries of Western history. Art. Seriously, I have an H.K. surround receiver in the house as well as an NAD C370 integrated and I can't wait to compare them and give you my report. Edster, kudos to you for your bargain-sniffin' ways and your openness to a shift in Gestalt. Keep bringin' the noise. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2231 Registered: Feb-05 | Trust me he will. However you must know that I would be happy to enjoy a bargain product were it any good. As a state social worker I don't have money for expensive gear and if I could avoid it and have good sound I would. There ain't no shift in Gestalt and there ain't no free lunch. |
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Silver Member Username: NewbPost Number: 202 Registered: Dec-03 | hey art, so r you saying the panny is average? if so in what way, reliablity, performance? thx |
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Silver Member Username: NewbPost Number: 203 Registered: Dec-03 | sry i meant below average |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2956 Registered: Mar-05 | > As a state social worker I don't have money for expensive gear heh, then how on earth do you swing the kind of gear you have? My very rough guess is your main system (excluding the TV) must've run what, $5000-7000? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2960 Registered: Mar-05 | BTW, just found out today that the Panny actually uses SIX of its 7 amps for 2-channel listening in Bi-wire mode. Wow, gotta try that sometime. http://panasonic.com.au/content/lib...les/F001536.pdf That link came from a thread on another forum where the owner of a $2500 Rotel (and $10K speakers) chose to keep the xr55 and resell the Rotel: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=600778&page=1&p p=30 So guys, all the buzz about the Panny is NOT just about price price price. Many people who can afford far more expensive receivers and separates are finding that they prefer it, not just the financially challenged like yours truly, LOL. So Chas, I think it's safe to say that the Panny is not "below average" by any means, even if after an AB listen you decide that you prefer the built-in fuzziness of analog over digital amplification. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2237 Registered: Feb-05 | "so r you saying the panny is average? if so in what way, reliablity, performance?" No I'm saying it's performance is far below average. I don't know about reliability though I would guess that it is above average as Panasonic usually makes reliable inexpensive electronics. Their direct view and plasma tv's are exceptional but their LCD rear projection sets are below average. Overall I like Panasonic as a brand but having listened to that receiver I have to say that it is the most over rated "hunk-o-junk" of all time. If it sounds good to the folks who own it "more power to them". If you gave me one, I would give it away or deposit it in a dumpster. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2238 Registered: Feb-05 | "As a state social worker I don't have money for expensive gear" Eddie quit being silly. Have you ever heard of credit. 150 of my closest colleages and I just got laid off this week. Fortunately for me I have seniority over most folks in my district so I was able to bump someone in a lower job. So point being, remember when I posted my pitiful salary.....well knock off about 10% and that's where I'm at now. Fortunately I'm good enough at what I do that I have all of the community partners lobbying my agency leadership to have me continue doing my current job even at the lower pay scale. I love working with folks and don't want to give that up to be a food stamp worker. Now do you know enough to believe that I ain't got no money. Sound is important enough to me to get myself a$$hole deep in debt. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2962 Registered: Mar-05 | > Sound is important enough to me to get myself a$$hole deep in debt. yikes. well, IMO most non-audiophile folks would still find the dollar amount is pretty astronomical, whether it's paid up front or on a credit card. I respect that you value music so much, but the vast majority of people that I recommend the Panny to are usually not out to put themselves in debt for the sake of audio, hence my persistence in informing them of this option. You may have noticed that I usually do not give Panny or Ascend recs to people who post here asking about the really high end stuff...hey, the US economy has to run on something right? lol |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 534 Registered: Mar-04 | sorry to enter the fray so late. i've been away a while. i do love my SA-XR55 a whole bunch. smooth detailed fast lush grain free imagemonster i didn't buy mine for sonics or the FEW raves (they're really starting to catch on) but to power MMGs that i wanted, but it spanked my onkyo and NAD in every way top to bottom so much (ok... NAD does bass really well) that i no longer blame my superzeros for treble politeness. they just never recieved a refined treble. as to HDMI, i would have said get that for high rez digital before, but it sounds like my SA-XR55 sounds a little airier, detailed and quick in the treble now since i'm feeding it my sony DVD/SACD player's analogue outs! i think the panny D/A converters are a bit laid back and polite while the sony's are a bit more foreward and quick. metallic percussion sounds crisper with the sony's D/A converter. it's a welcomed improvement to a treble speed freak like me. the panny's D/A sounds warmer and mellower. i never thought that i'd go back to analogue ins with a DVD player, but i'm seriously thinking of getting multichannel RCAs and buying some SACDs now. for 16/44 audio at least, the SA-XR55 can sound just as good if not better via analogue ins. i'm not as stressed about not getting the SA-XR70 because i was planning on analogue biamping maggies now. i'm inclined to think that panny sound can be improved with a better D/A converter and analogue in. i don't have any SACDs to compare against and even if i did, my sony would downconvert them to 16/48 via coax anyways. it doesn't have HDMI either. the 55 does look alot better. what doesn't come out well in the picures is the classy, featureless chrome display strip. it makes the panny look as expensive as it sounds when turned off depending on what it's reflecting anyways. i saw cieling when i opened the box. and said "coooooool". i just hate the video jacks on the front, but most recievers have those anyways. i bought my old onkyo because it didn't. |
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New member Username: Mark_sSt. Paul, MN Post Number: 5 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks for jumping in, budget minded. My XR-55 is supposed to show up this week. It should be fun. You still gonna try those MMG's? I'm moving my NAD C370 into my study and I'm definitely going to give the Maggies a ride. (Of course I'll have to try the Panasonic on them if I decide to keep it.) |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2329 Registered: Feb-05 | Perhaps you might think about trying the 40's with good electronics hearing their full potential. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 283 Registered: Apr-04 | Yes ED..the global ecomony runs on LOW to MID-FI. Going to check out the Panasonic at Circuit City today, very attractive price online...but then there is that refurbed Marantz SR4320 out there... ART KYLE..Seriously...Can you elaborate on what you feel is the problem with the sound of the Panasonic or why you think that it's not acceptable? Thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 285 Registered: Apr-04 | Just came back from Circuit City. The guy there had not heard of the Panasonic. He checked their website to see it, then checked inventory of that store and all those in the area. NONE. Then checked the Chicago warehouse. NONE. Said he didn't know where they would be coming from if ordered online. Oh well... |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3109 Registered: Mar-05 | Rick, You'll have to gamble $15 on possible return shipping for the Panny from amazon.com --- I look at it as a 30 day home audition fee. Would love to hear your thoughts on it since I think you have NAD gear too. The global economy probably runs more on low- than mid-fi if we are using Art and Tawaun's definition of "mid-fi" being amps costing above say $3K. But I think it's the higher end stuff that really keeps the small audio shops and audio magazines alive because those guys can't compete with the volume of the big box stores nor the low overhead of the online retailers. Nothing wrong with people willing to pay for the extra service and convenience of brick and mortar shops, or for high end gear---I just think it's important to keep in mind that a lot of the alleged "conventional wisdom" and folklore that the audio subculture is built on is built upon the entrenched economic interests of advertisers, magazines and some high end retailers. The Panny is actually not found in most Circuit City stores from what I read on these boards, it's easy to see why---in a listening room with impartial or supportive sales staff it would demolish their sales of more expensive analog receivers that they probably make a much better net profit on. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3110 Registered: Mar-05 | Mark, when your xr55 gets in and you've broken it in for a few days, please do an AB comparison with your NAD c370 and post your results...that will be very interesting esp. for me, since I found that it easily outpowered and outperformed my 100wpc NAD separates. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 287 Registered: Apr-04 | The ONLY thing they had to drive speakers in the Circuit City speaker room was a huge Harmon Kardon. Saw only Harman Kardon, Onkyo and Sherwood on the floor outside of the room. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3118 Registered: Mar-05 | geez, and I thought MY circuit city was bad... |
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New member Username: Mark_sSt. Paul, MN Post Number: 6 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks fellas. Actually the xr55 arrived today but my in-laws are visiting from California and I need to be sort of diplomatic about this. (They fly back on Wednesday.) After a few days of break-in I'm gonna AB my NAD c370 and the new Panasonic. Both hooked up with Kimber PBJ's to a NAD c521BEE. I really don't have any stake in this. I just wanna know what sounds good. And I wanna know if the Panasonic will perform at a reliable and decent level for my HT system and thus save me about a thousand dollars. But it seems that if I do happen to like the way the Panasonic sounds and images, certain members of this board will only conclude that I failed to couple my studio 40's with "good electronics." Go figure. Anyhoo. Thanks for the help. This is fun. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2335 Registered: Feb-05 | That would be me and I stand by it. I've heard the Panny and if you like it that's fine but my audition leads me to believe that it is very poor for music reproduction. To each his own. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3123 Registered: Mar-05 | oh, brother... What I'd give to find an electrician who could disguise the Panny inside the casing of a Rotel (first adding about a 25lb lead plate to replicate the correct weight), and ship it over to Art for a home demo...LOL |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1314 Registered: Jun-05 | Maybe it wouldnt make any difference Eddie,some of the Rotels are terrible to. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3128 Registered: Mar-05 | maybe so but I'll bet Art would be much more forgiving of it if he didn't know it was the EVIL PANNY he was listening to, heh! |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 162 Registered: Jul-05 | Probably not. He seems to know what he is talking about. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3137 Registered: Mar-05 | > But it seems that if I do happen to like the way the Panasonic sounds and images, certain members of this board will only conclude that I failed to couple my studio 40's with "good electronics." Go figure. Mark, I don't think that Art would call a NAD c370 *bad* electronics since he has some NAD gear himself. So if an AB test with the NAD has you jumping on the xr55 bandwagon too, that takes care of that. (Art will protest of course, LOL.) |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2339 Registered: Feb-05 | "maybe so but I'll bet Art would be much more forgiving of it if he didn't know it was the EVIL PANNY he was listening to, heh!" Hardly...folks who were there when I auditioned it were shaking their heads in disbelief that anyone thought that Panny sounded anywhere in the same ballpark as the HK's. Then they laughed...as did I. Anytime I do an audition I do it with as open a mind as possible. Remember the Yamaha lessons you've learned Eddie...I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. |
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Silver Member Username: SmittyPost Number: 256 Registered: Dec-03 | Art's not the only one who's hasn't been seduced by the Panny cult. The nice thing about the Panny is that they're typically sold at places with liberal return policies. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 774 Registered: May-05 | I would like to officially join the Panny Sucks club. More on it when I have a little more time... |
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Silver Member Username: SmittyPost Number: 257 Registered: Dec-03 | Ha ha...that's the problem with ecoustics, they have no polling feature. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2340 Registered: Feb-05 | Welcome to the club Stu and Smitty. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3141 Registered: Mar-05 | Stu, I think a more accurate name for your "Panny Sucks Club" would be the "Pannys Envy Club"... R O T F L M A O !!! |
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New member Username: Mark_sSt. Paul, MN Post Number: 7 Registered: Nov-05 | Hey gang. Let's quit polarizing here. This is not about who is against who. This is about if (and it IS a big if) a 200 dollar surround receiver with some newer technology will present an image and a soundstage that keeps one buyer from laying out about five times more money. Those of us who are testing this out will do our best to give you the most honest feedback we can. Do you trust us? We're all on the same team, kids. We all like the experience. Let's can the ad-hominum attacks and stick to our real-life reviews of the equipment. I want it to rip me open. I want it to make me bleed. How much to I need to pay? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3151 Registered: Mar-05 | Don't worry Mark, we're all friends yankin' each other's chain here...though Art does get a little frisky on this subject sometimes, LOL. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2343 Registered: Feb-05 | Mark it's not about trust it's about experience and preference. One of the two big proponents of the Panny has admitted repeatedly that he likes bright sound and abhors warm sound (McIntosh for example). He also liked his Onkyo receiver better than his NAD gear. Should I take him seriously? Simple answer... NO! Point is I don't know any of you and after hearing the Panny twice, once for a lengthy audition, I do not take seriously anyone who thinks it sounds like anything but junk. It's that simple. So do I trust ya'll....no ofcourse not. I do however respect the opinions of Jan, Frank, and Stu to name just a few because they have demonstrated a knowledge of audio, and not just the nuts and bolts but what good sound is. Eddie knows I'm not mad at him and I suspect he's not mad at me. This stuff isn't worth getting worked up over. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3157 Registered: Mar-05 | > Eddie knows I'm not mad at him and I suspect he's not mad at me. This stuff isn't worth getting worked up over. This I agree with. It's worth endless chuckles though. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 778 Registered: May-05 | "I think a more accurate name for your "Panny Sucks Club" would be the "Pannys Envy Club"..." In that case, I envy it just a tad less than a Bose Lifestyle system... |
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Silver Member Username: SmittyPost Number: 259 Registered: Dec-03 | How about 'Beat the Panny with a Club'? We can meet once a month and see if a baseball bat hitting the Panny is the best sound that comes out of it. If not, maybe a big rock would make it sound better. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 779 Registered: May-05 | At least those things would sound natural and uncolored |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2347 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm game, anyone with a Louisville Slugger...lol! |
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Silver Member Username: SmittyPost Number: 260 Registered: Dec-03 | Excellent, I think the first meeting should coincide with the Dec 23rd Festivus holiday. We can make it part of the "airing of grievances". For background music on a real stereo system, I recommend the Ramones "Beat on the Brat" Beat the Panny LOL! Oh yea... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2351 Registered: Feb-05 | Oh goody a "festivus" for the "rest of us"...lol !!! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3166 Registered: Mar-05 | tsk tsk, why are you guys so deathly A F R A I D of this little thing? giggle, giggle, giggle... |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3167 Registered: Mar-05 | oh, besides the PANNYS ENVY CLUB, you guys can also call yourselves the UNPLANNED OBSOLESCENCE CLUB!!! ROTFL... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2355 Registered: Feb-05 | Judging by the increasing size of your font Eddie, I believe we know who is really afraid. Folks with ears and experience are speaking out. Have you seen a Prima Luna Prologue tube amp. It isn't very big and I would make it a nice little home in a heartbeat. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3191 Registered: Mar-05 | well I figure since the Panny-phobes on this thread have descended to 3rd-grade rhetoric, they deserve to read 3rd-grade font sizes...LOL! No have not seen any tubes in person, but they are pretty funky-looking little things. I liked the first line from the Stereophile review on this receiver: "My first reaction to the Prima Luna Prologue One was based solely on looks: For $1095, I might not have been disappointed had it sounded no better than a Bose Wave Radio." http://stereophile.com/integratedamps/205prima/ Kind of says a lot about where Art Dudley's coming from if he has low expectations for a $1100 piece of electronics. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2363 Registered: Feb-05 | Let's see..an Art Dudley review vs Edster....slam dunk I'll take Art. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3198 Registered: Mar-05 | no surprise there, Art! LOL When you want a champagne review, you go to a champagne drinker. I'm a beer critic, never pretended otherwise. In fact, compared to someone like you I probably am much pickier about my beer than about my audio. |
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Bronze Member Username: LowPost Number: 13 Registered: Nov-05 | Is there a difference between the xr55s and the xr55k? |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 770 Registered: Oct-04 | One is (s)ilver, and they both sound like (k)rap |
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Bronze Member Username: LowPost Number: 14 Registered: Nov-05 | Witty, but I am poor so it'll have to do. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3252 Registered: Mar-05 | Braden, never mind lame-o Kano, it's that time of month for him again...sigh! LOL |
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Bronze Member Username: LowPost Number: 15 Registered: Nov-05 | hahahaha Can't co(p)e with the (m)astery of the Pana(s)onic |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3258 Registered: Mar-05 | LOL! |
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Silver Member Username: Paul98Post Number: 102 Registered: Oct-05 | Have you done a freq sweep with spl meter of your panasonic? and if you did, did you also do it with your other gear? |
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Silver Member Username: Paul98Post Number: 103 Registered: Oct-05 | I did some tests between my old receiver and my panasonic. Both gave me around the same values in the freq response. But the two sounded very different when doing the sweep. Has anyone else tried and noticed that? |
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New member Username: DzjangagainPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-05 | Mark, What's up with your AB-ing of the Panny with the NAD c370??? Dzjang |
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coleco Unregistered guest | Bought a panny xr-50 a year ago. Sucks for music but it does HT well so I kept it. It run on Energy C5s. Treble is very fatiguing. I swore at first that it's putting out too much treble energy so I did some sweeps (I have a measurement mic and an edirol ua-25). Freq response is pretty damn flat but treble just sounds wrong. Totally wrong. It hurts my ears. It's a shame because is images very well, the bass and mids are great. If I eq it down about 14db @ 10khz then it sounds good. Dare I say, human voices sound like human voices at this point. Regardless of how well the panny's handle everything below 1khz, and other good qualities aside, I don't think it reasonable to say it's 'hifi'. Claim synergy issues if you will, but an amp should be able to handle an average set of floorstanders without freaking out. It's just a flawed piece of hardware, and frustrating because it *could* be good. |
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Unregistered guest | I'm in the market for a new reciever. As a new father cash just isn't available these days to go with a 1000 dollar recievers. I have a short list currently and though the Panasonic isn't currently on it, its price might make it worth an audition despite its varying reputations. My habits are primarily Movies. Music I listen to in a different room on an older but expensive non 5.1 reciever. To determine whether the Panasonic even meets my minimum criteria for an audition I want to verify it has certain capabilities. I searched both the US and Canadian Panasonic sites and can't find any information to confirm Ya or Na. Though the Panasonic sites confirm Component switching, I need to confirm that it does upconversion to Component. I'm fully aware of the general opinion of the quality of most of these conversion functions but I value convenience first and foremost. Second, I don't see any mention of time delay\lipsync function and am curious if the feature is available. Not likely but would appreciate a confirmation just the same. Currently on my short list are the following ... Denon AVR-686S * Denon AVR-786S * Denon AVR-1706 Onkyo TX-SR603X Onkyo TX-SR703 Pioneer VSX-1015TX * * The two Denons and the Pioneer I can get significantly under retail via Employee Discount. The others I'd be paying Retail. |
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Anonymous | I think we need to get eddie a 6 foot blow up panny. That way he can take it to bed with him. What d'ya think guys? lol |
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Anonymous | that way he can give it a BLOWJOB every night |
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Anonymous | I sure wish somebody would give a lonely pathetic fella like ME a blowjob. Please? Pretty please? With sugar on it? |
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New member Username: Tommy_jenkinsTallahasse, FL Post Number: 4 Registered: Dec-05 | Just found this today, http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=6382 |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1020 Registered: Dec-04 | Pretty much as expected, brash, difficult power, which sounds good in a Brittish flat. Have you SEEn a British flat? North American broom closets(mostly). Albeut, good marks for low listening levels, the lower the better, actually! Like '0'. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1021 Registered: Dec-04 | Am I the first with 'Tin Panny Ally'? |