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Anonymous | I have an Arcam AVR300, Arcam CD73, Sony HX900 Recorder, and a RCA dtc210 sat reciever, currently using Polks LSI9's, LSiC, PSW505 sub. I am thinking about doing a speaker upgrade. Any body have an opinion? I listen about 50/50 to music and movies. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 167 Registered: Dec-04 | Anon, Look for Frank Abela here, he lives the stuff. And yes, I am rather jealous of your setup. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2723 Registered: Mar-05 | Geez, it sounds like you already have a killer setup---the only thing I'd suggest upgrading is the sub. An SVS Ultra/2 would be a spectacular addition for $2K: http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb12_ultra_2.htm Though for $1200 I'm sure the Plus/2 wouldn't be bad either: http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb12_plus_2.htm |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 260 Registered: Feb-05 | for $2k, a martinlogan sub will KILL anything that SVS puts out in terms of sound quality and blinding speed. ML are one of the only subs that I wouldnt hesita.te to match with planars, which I would never do with SVS. They just arent fast and clean enough |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6338 Registered: May-04 | What are you upgrading? All the speakers, just the LSi9's? Just a front pair/set or $2,000 for everything including a matching sub? Is the $2,000 before you trade off the Polks or are you counting on some money from their sale. Why are you upgrading the Polks? What do they do or not do that makes you think they are due for an upgrade? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2724 Registered: Mar-05 | maybe, but the guy does 50/50 music to movies. Also have you ever listened to these higher end SVS subs? I've heard they are many steps above the usual $400-700 ones that most people get. |
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Anonymous | Thanks for all the help, I was just going for an upgrade to the LSi9's BUT it sounds like the sub may be the best way to go for now and upgrade the LSi9's later? The $2k can be played with a little. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 261 Registered: Feb-05 | yes I have edster. I am comparing the $1800 MartinLogan Depth to the SVS Ultra/2. There is really no comparison between the two. The Depth is MUCH faster, having 3 8 inch woofers, and goes to a solid 20Hz with nary a hint of boom. You really have to hear this sub to believe it, as it sounds like "no sub" in the sense of blending absolutly seemlessly with your mains. And yes, it can play loud, although not as loud as the SVS. But quantity does not always equal quality. The SVS is to my ears quite bassy, which is OK for HT, but not good for music. MartinLogan has subwoofers in all price ranges: $599 Dynamo (1x10) 25--120 Hz ± 3 dB. $999 Grotto (1x10) 22--150 Hz ± 3 dB $1800 Depth (3x8) 20--150 Hz ±3 dB $2795 Decent (3x10) 18--150 Hz ±3 dB All the subs except the dynamo are servo controlled. The Dynamo has a unique configuration that enables it to be used in a downward firing OR front firing manner. at each of their respective price points, these subs are absolutly fantastic. I can't recommend them enough, especially if you do 50/50 HT/music. I used to reccomend SVS for their lower priced models, but now that MartinLogan has come out with a model that is only $100 or so more expensive than their least costly, I only do that when HT is the primary concern, not music. I can't urge you enough to track down a local ML dealer and see what they have to say, and try to at least audition their subs. They are BLINDING fast (great transient response), and can really deliver in HT as well. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2729 Registered: Mar-05 | My God, a $600 *anything* by Martin Logan definitely arouses my curiousity! lol |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 262 Registered: Feb-05 | their new Vignette speakers are $600 or $700 each, and sound great! They are a 2 way version of the Fresco. The Montage floorstander is $1400 a pair, and is the best speaker I have had the pleasure of hearing in that price class that I can recall. |
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Anonymous | Heh they better sound great for $6-700 each. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 263 Registered: Feb-05 | thats nothing... their top of the line speaker is $120,000 a pair. their electrostatic speakers start at $2700 a pair. ML are truly a wonder to behold. their less expensive speakers use planar drivers similar to magnepan |
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Anonymous | I'm aware; but there are other speakers that cost the same money which sound "great" as well. You make it sound like some great feat that they were able to make a $1400 a pair speaker sound good. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 264 Registered: Feb-05 | being that they use planar technology, its some great feat that they managed to get a DYNAMIC planar sound great at $1400 a pair. plus, I find ML speakers among the best in the world, keeping company with Wilson Audio and Revel. This isnt to say that I don't find other speakers great, I myself own magnepan and paradigm. However, my maggies are nowhere as dynamic as ML, and I will freely admit that. Sorry for not making my point clear. some dynamic speakers I like are: Paradigm Reference and Signature Thiel Wilson Audio Avalon Revel At the less expensive end: Ascend Acoustics (amazing for the price) |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 265 Registered: Feb-05 | not only that...but my maggies are quite power hungry. There are comprimises in anything you purchase. Bottom line is there is something for everyone. But, my fascination with planars is what led me to reccomend the ML line of subs. One sub that I forgot about, and is fantastic as well and really fast, is the Paradigm Servo-15. Not sure on the price however. I believe that it is around $1800-$2000. |
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Anonymous | I've heard rumors that ML's are fairly demanding as well. Having a dealer nearby I am resonably aquainted with their sound, but never thought them to be "all that". To each his own though. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 266 Registered: Feb-05 | have you heard their subs however? I am assuming that you are the same anon that has been posting here all along. if you don't care for the ML subs, the Paradigm Servo 15 is another great choice. Loud, low, and TIGHT! |
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Anonymous | "have you heard their subs however?" Can't say that I have, just their speakers. "I am assuming that you are the same anon that has been posting here all along. " I am not the original poster anon. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2071 Registered: Feb-05 | Other good subs. Vandersteen (both of them) REL (all of them) Era Sub 10 All of these subs are very musical and can keep up with nearly any speaker. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 267 Registered: Feb-05 | art... anon was looking for subs in the $2k range, the RELs that I am aware of are above that. Can you set me straight here? Thats why I am so pro-ml because they can keep up with anything, and are "fairly" reasonably priced. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2072 Registered: Feb-05 | REL makes subs as low as $800, that's why I'm pro REL. The REL Strata III is a particularly good value at under $1500. The Vandersteens are under $1400 and the Era is 1k. I would put these subs against any. |
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New member Username: PlatoWoodbury, NJ Post Number: 8 Registered: Oct-05 | Gavin, I totally agree with you about Martin Logans. I recently upgraded from B&W Nautilus 804 to a pair of Ascent i and everyday I can't wait to get home from work to listen to them. The best quality I have ever heard on a speaker in this price range. I use them for music and some HT. I don't even feel the need for a sub for HT. However, they retail for almost $5k. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 988 Registered: Sep-04 | The reason I have not contributed to this thread so far is that I have no experience whatsoever of Polk speakers. What little I have heard about them has not been especially complimentary, but this is just hearsay. Martin Logans have this wonderfully open midrange with a beautifully extended liquid treble. However, I find I have problems with their bass integration (they typically use an ordinary drive unit for bass) and their pace. They are excellent speakers, don't get me wrong, but they're not my cup of tea exactly from a musical perspective. Also, MLs are dipoles which means they are more room dependant than most speakers. MLs are also not particularly easy to drive. I have used the AVR300 to great effect with several speaker brands including: M&K - the best on surround sound and not bad at all on music. Much better performance than you'd expect, very sophisticated. B&W - DM600 series and 700 series. Both are a reasonably good match, the 700 series is miles better. Totem - good combination for music and HT, discreet speakers with a big sound, great clarity and dynamics. Dynaudio Audience series - also good combination for music and HT with a flexible range to suit most tastes, great presence and dynamics Subs - I have used REL and M&K. I have also heard that the Velodynes are excellent. The REL ST series (Stampede and Strata V) are very flexible and effective for sensible money. The Stgampede is not far off the Strata V, especially in average sized rooms. The RELs are a touch warm in presentation. The M&Ks perform amazingly well. They're not as flexible as the RELs but their performance envelope is remarkably good. Even the entry level sub goes down to 22hz flat. All the rest go to 20hz flat minimum. That's remarkable prformance by anyone's measure. Presentation is entirely neutral, fine in a warm system but can be construed as cool in a neutral one. The Velodynes are meant to have a similar performance envelope to the M&Ks. I have not heard them myself (soon will) but the stories I am hearing from people I trust is that they are formidable, especially now that even their more entry level subs have full room EQ software built-in, allowing you to tailor their response to the vaguaries of your room. All the above are good combinations with the Arcam and should raise the game considerably. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 270 Registered: Feb-05 | Frank, have you heard the newer ML line up, with aluminum cone woofers? The older ones had far more issues than the new ones with speed and integration, at least to my ears. |
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Anonymous | I want to thank everyone for all the post's. I have a lot of information to go and a lot of speakers to preveiw. I am sure my time wont be waisted by listening to any of them. Just for info., the Polks sound fine, just not really "Blow your socks off Great". I don't dislike them, just I think and as you all have shown me, thier is better. Again Thanks to All |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 713 Registered: Oct-04 | There's always better. Post back if you decide to sell the Lsi9s, I'd be interested. |
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Silver Member Username: AudioholicPost Number: 194 Registered: Apr-05 | Wilson's are drastically overpriced. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2091 Registered: Feb-05 | Everything is relative. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1120 Registered: Jun-05 | Wilsons are expensive but they are great to,I wouldnt say they are drastically overpriced either Dave Wilson makes no bones about what crowd he sells to,they are no more expensive then any other high end speakers out there such as Avalon or Kharma.ML has never done it for me,but I can see how they can be apealing,but their speed and intergration in the bass just sounds odd to me.The Rel,M&K,Era,Vandersteen,Velodynes are very are the cream of the crop,so is Definitive,BagEnd,Thiel,Aerial Accoustics,Paradigm servo-15,B&W and a few others that I didnt name. |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummPost Number: 271 Registered: Feb-05 | wilson audio ARE VERY expensive (over 10 large) but I threw them in as an example. I feel that MartinLogan can keep up with them in terms of treble speed and air, and midrange purity. Bass IMHO is great on the NEW (not old) models, but to each his own Thiel is great as well, but this is what high end audio is all about!!! so many great choices!!! I LOVE IT |