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New member Username: BluesPost Number: 10 Registered: Mar-04 | I've been told that this format may not really take off because of DVD-A. Let's face it, CDs should've been obsolete years ago. I was then wondering if it makes any difference whether a receiver has HDCD decoding or not. My guess is not really unless you already have a large collection of HDCDs (which I doubt many people do). Thoughts? |
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New member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 9 Registered: Mar-04 | I haven't come across ONE HDCD yet! Admittedly I've not been looking for one especially but I thought I may have bumped into one by now. Can't be many about! I'd like to hear one though, just to see what the sound difference is - if anything palpable. |
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Bronze Member Username: InviernoPost Number: 40 Registered: Feb-04 | Checking through my collection about 1 out of every 15-20 CD's is an HDCD. Note that the format started sometime in the mid to late 90's. So any CD's from before that time are clearly not going to be HDCD. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 707 Registered: Dec-03 | Blues, CD sound is limited by the format of 16-bit, 44 kHz, which was arrived at in order to allow about and hour of stereo to be carried on a 12 cm diameter disc with a single layer, holding about 650 MB of information. I am not sure what the specification is for HDCD. Some later CDs had 20 bit recording, it did not make a big difference. People have got used to the disc size. DVDs have a double layer and can hold more information, over 5 GB. On DVD-Video discs most of this space is used for video. On DVD-Audio discs it is used for high-resolution sound, and in 5.1 channels. The improved sound quality of DVD-Audio over CD is very easy to hear. DVD-Audio is a major step forward. CD, on its introduction, was already obsolete, except in one decisive factor, which was convenience. DVD-Audio gives the same convenience, but much better sound. On this forum: Twilight of the Compact Disc |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 213 Registered: Feb-04 | HDCD is in a 20-bit format over the normal 16-bit cd. If you have a DVD/CD, CD player or receiver that decodes HDCD then consider it a bonus rather than thinking it's the origin of a whole new format. Quite a few from our cd collection are HDCD and some Telarc (not branded as HDCD) are 20 bit recordings also. In fact we even have a couple of Telarc surround sound cd's. If it's a war, then HDCD is Switzerland. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 709 Registered: Dec-03 | My Rantz, Thanks! I have some CDs on which the label it says "recorded with 20-bit A/D conversion" and a recent one with "recorded with 24-bit resolution". But there is nothing on the label about how they play back, or HDCD, which I hadn't heard of. I thought the 20-bit and 24-bit CDs were pretty good until I heard DVD-A. "If it's a war, then HDCD is Switzerland". Never heard that before. Pure joy. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 214 Registered: Feb-04 | John A You keep insisting on making my ears salivate. (ha ha!) Although quite not sealed in cement, I'm leaning towards the Denon 2900. At $1990 here it is much more than we can really afford, however the reviews and lab tests tell the story. In short, no other universal DVD player gets such consistant, raving reviews. Except no HDCD! When we spend the money, we'll want long term enjoyment although we have fallen into a trap in the past when buying the top of the line 1st generation Yamaha DVD player for $1200. It was nothing but trouble. I forget the model, but the top Nad DVD standard player here is about $1350 about the same as the Denon 2200 so another 10lbs of player for the extra may be justified (hey, I'll use that on my wife!). |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 710 Registered: Dec-03 | My Rantz, Yes, I have read the thread about the Denon 2200. The 2900 looks like a better bet. But that's pricey. You could almost get and Arcam DV88 for that.... (would be my first choice). The T533, at a third of the price, here, of the Denon 2900, is the only DVD-A player from NAD. If you go up to the Denon 2900 price range, then you have more choice. |
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Bronze Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 60 Registered: Dec-03 | There is a lot of HDCD encoded titles out there. Labels don't always put HDCD on the CD due to the fact that they would have to pay Microsoft. The HDCD digital filter is very highly regarded. Some HDCD titles off the top of my head... Kinks Reissues Grateful Dead Reissues Motley Crue Reissues Van Halen Reissues Neil Young Beck (last 3 albums) Doors Reissues Dave Brubeck - Time Out Acoustic Disc Releases Beach Boys - Pet Sounds a more comprehensive list can be seen at www.hdcd.com. I'm not sure how up-to-date it is as I have HDCD titles that are not on this list. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 712 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Ben. Interesting. I wonder if I have some HDCDs without knowing it. I did not know Microsoft were into audio etc., except for Mediaplayer. |
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Bronze Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 61 Registered: Dec-03 | Microsift bought Pacific Microsystems who developed HDCD. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 714 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Ben. That's another MS acquisition, then, like Hotmail and about a thousand other things. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 29 Registered: Mar-04 | I think you guys in the U.S. must have more HDCD's than we Brits get. My Nad player has an HDCD led that lights when it's loaded with the appropriate disc but it's never lit once and I've bought on average 5 cd's a month for the past umpteen years. Plus NONE of my cd's have the HDCD logo on them. Bummer! |
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New member Username: Unbridled_idChicagoUsa Post Number: 10 Registered: Mar-04 | I have a nad 541i and own several cds but was unaware any were hdcd... Then I popped in the flaming lips' soft bulletin and at once noticed a richer, deeper, and more enveloping sound and yes the red led was on indicating it was encoded... I at once felt that if all my cds (i burn most cause I feel than the music industry are a bunch of crooks) sounded like that I would really be happy... I would imagine dvd audio sounds even better but with the limited number of titles out (dont' forget sacd!) who's gonna re-buy their whole collection... Not me at this point in time... |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 736 Registered: Dec-03 | Quite a lot of people "upgraded" their LP collections to CD, thinking it was better. It wasn't, except for convenience. People believed the hype, spent a lot, and the industry was pleased. SACD is an attempt to get people to do that all over again. In my opinion, keep your CD collection. Mine is irreplaceable. But, if you want to move on to better sound, get DVD-Audio. |
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Gary Whyte Unregistered guest | I have an NAD C542 CD player that includes the HDCD processor. The nice thing about HDCD is it gives better sound quality without causing compatibility problems--you don't have to buy a new player if you buy HDCD discs, they can be played on any CD player. But if you want the extra quality, you get it on an HDCD- compatible player and can still play all your other CDs. By the way, Joni Mitchell's complete collection of albums has been remastered using HDCD technology (they are all marked as HDCD and the prices don't appear to be any higher). |
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swampcat Unregistered guest | The new denon cd changer (top model only) cliams to be HDCD. Will this blow away dvd audio? |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 948 Registered: Dec-03 | swampcat, No chance. Not with the same recording, and everything else being equal. HDCD is not in the race, imho. More important may be the sampling frequency and bit number of the master recording. My best CDs are from 20 or 24 bit masters. But for playback, DVD-A's 24 bit 192 kHz is off the scale, for resolution, compared with any CD. |
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Bronze Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 83 Registered: Dec-03 | It depends on the recording and your CD player. Most DVD-A's are not 24/192. It is very important that you check the back of the DVD-A. There are a lot of 24/48 titles out there which I would avoid like the plague, unless a 5.1 mix is important to you. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 954 Registered: Dec-03 | That's right, Ben. Furthermore, some DVD-A discs do not have two-channel at all, and just rely on a 5.1 downmix. Always read the label. |
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New member Username: AsimoPost Number: 3 Registered: Apr-04 | I have NAD C541 CD player that has HDCD. I did not buy it for the HDCD device, it just was there. After few months of very enjoying listening to standard CD's, I tried to find HDCD just to see the difference. In the five biggest CD's stores in Tel-Aviv including Tower Records I did not find any classical music HDCD. Some of the sellers even did not know what HDCD is. Finally I found some local jazz specialized mailing shop that had few classical HDCD in full price. I ordered one HDCD ( Palestrina Magnificat) and he also sent me a sampler HDCD of Linn Record with different music genres. After some listening and comparing I have found that there is a difference in favor of the HDCD especially in the sampler Linn CD but a good standard CD sounded as good as the Palestrina Magnificat HDCD. My conclusion is that I would not do efforts to find HDCD in full price any more. I will buy it only if I find HDCD in the same CD price and performance that I look for. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 955 Registered: Dec-03 | Asimo, As you may know, Palestrina wrote for performance in what we today, in audio, call "surround sound". This is an example of a musical "genre" where stereo can never hope to approach reproduction of the kind of experience that the composer had in mind. The one DVD-A I know of music contemporary with Palestrina is amazing, and a total revelation. |
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Bronze Member Username: SrkstanKazakhstan Post Number: 54 Registered: Apr-04 | Do HDCDs digitize at a higher quality to a PC hard disk than do CDs? I play all of my music from my PC into a hi-fi system (actually sounds wonderful with a good sound card that mimics DVD-A in 5.1 surround). If I buy a HDCD and digitize it, will it sound better than my digitized CDs? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1161 Registered: Dec-03 | Sean, Good question, Concerning HDCD, my cynical view is that either you can't copy files freely or you can't burn discs freely, or both; and that is its primary purpose. You need an HDCD processor: http://www.hdcd.com/partners/proaudio/mastering.html In this respect, HDCD resembles SACD: the claims to improved sound quality may be partly true (certainly with SACD), but they are not the real issue, from the manufacturer's point of view. The intention is to replace CD with something more profitable. Serious business. I do hope I have got it wrong. |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest | John A. - Just getting back on this thread as I jump around so this is in reference to an older posting. Switzerland, very good, but you and I both show our age. In today's war on terrorism HDCD is Estonia. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1164 Registered: Dec-03 | Jan, I remember that post, too. It was My Rantz: "If this is war, HDCD is Switzerland". Great line. Age has nothing to do with it, though. A real oldie might still say "...HDCD is Belgium"; once (before WW I) "...America". I owe you long replies on other threads. Do you not take my point, above? Would Mr E. Blair/G. Orwell have written in praise of HDCD? |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 215 Registered: Dec-03 | JohnA., If I may jump in here, I have stated on a previous thread, that IMHO HDCD sounds no better than a well recorded CD, when played on a high end player or transport. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1167 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick, Yes, I remember, and thank you. Your "HO" with my "conspiracy theory" (May 21, 5.39, above) for HDCD. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1168 Registered: Dec-03 | Should have read "Your "HO" is consistent with with my "conspiracy theory" |
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New member Username: Dgb100PA Post Number: 1 Registered: May-04 | This thread just prompted me to join the list. I've actually got two HDCD players, one is my Mitsubishi DD-6000 DVD player (24/96) and the NAD 541 CD player. Personally I hear a substantial difference between HDCD and regular CDs, particularly on the NAD. Bigger soundstage and imaging is much better. The NAD also upsamples regular CDs to 24/96, very nice CD player for the realtively low price. You should not have to pay any premium for HDCD, and it probably will stick around as many studios are using the process just as a matter of course. It's not a new format, just an improvment of the standard CD. There aren't many US titles, but there are tons availabe from China and Hong Kong where HDCD has really caught on. I was skeptical about the quality of these items, but I did a direct A/B of Quenn's Night at the Opera standard CD and the HDCD, the HDCD was better. I'm hoping HDCD will become a nice, 2-channel alternative to the SACD and DVD-A multi channel world, which I really don't care to enter. |