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New member Username: Will22Vancouver, British Colu... Canada Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-05 | Hey guys, First off I have to mention how excited I am to have found a site like this with so much information and diverse opinions with respect to HIFI audio. Well, I finally convinced the old lady that we should "invest" in a good audio system strictly for music listening, seeing as we both enjoy music. The girlfriend is a trained musician (pianist) and will need speakers that can articulate classical pieces (ie. Liszt, Rachmaninov etc... ), and although I like classical, I also enjoy Jazz (Charlie Parker, Jimmy Smith, Fats Waller etc..) and Rock & Roll (all the typical classics but goodies). Now, am I asking for too much for a simple speaker that can handle these dynamics in this price range? I don't need anything fancy, just some value-oriented recommendations please. For a CD player I'm considering the NAD C542, and probably a C352 for the amp. Please keep in mind that I live in Vancouver and that it is relatively tough to find very exotic HIFI dealers. I'm not aware of any decent online retailers. Lastly, the components must pass an "aesthetic" hurdle as judged by the girlfriend. She doesn't want something that'll "ruin" our living room (give me a break). Thanks for all the help and I'll post updates regarding suggestions. Cheers, Will PS - sorry if this post was too long. it's my first one. |
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New member Username: WillfiPost Number: 1 Registered: Oct-05 | A pair of Quad 21L's would do your job incredibly. My musical tastes are similar and I enjoy mine alot! I had them powered originally with a NAD C350 and NAD C542 cd, but have since upgraded both amp and source and can definitly say that the speakers are still not my weakest link. Very smooth and extended sound, with amazing staging and imaging, while a little light on the lowest octave - something I personally prefer. I've been listening lately to Lisa Ekdahl (Back to Earth, Jazz) and I swear I can reach out and start touching the piano keys in front of me - very convincing! A great ability of these speakers is that as music travels through the crossover frequency, there's absolutely no change to the sound or size of the image, a problem that I have had with every other speaker I've tried, including Paradigm Studio Series. As for the look, mine are Birds Eye Maple and looks immaculate - Very high WAF! Hope you have a dealer with them, as you should definitely audition them as you won't be disappointed! www.quad-hifi.co.uk click on "L-series" Will (as well) |
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New member Username: Will22Vancouver, British Colu... Canada Post Number: 2 Registered: Oct-05 | Will, Thanks for thoughtful recommendation. I haven't auditioned the Quad's yet but I'll look around in the city to see if I can get a chance to hear them. However, I just finished reading a few reviews on them and they were all positive. You're right, they are also gorgeous looking speakers - classy looking but subtle. By the way, what did you updgrade your amp and CD player to? Thanks again. |
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New member Username: WillfiPost Number: 2 Registered: Oct-05 | I have switched the amp to a Creek 5350se and have a Cary cd308T CD Player. The pair work terrific together as the amp is a touch dry, while I have a set of Mullard tubes in the CD that warm things back up! I have been doing some A/B comparisons between the Cary and the NAD c542 and I can definitely tell you that the NAD's no slouch, as it offers almost what the Cary does, just a little less complete. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 956 Registered: Sep-04 | Have a look at: Dynaudio's Audience range and the Dynaudio FOCUS 110. These are quality speakers which are pretty good at most things. Totem's range of speakers. With a 352 you can power up to a Hawk, although personally I'd want better electronics on that level of speaker. Vancouver has a couple of good dealers. Have a look around and see what they can offer you from a system perspective. For a given budget, it's better to spend a little more on your source components (CD player and amp) and a little less on the speakers since a low fidelity signal can't be corrected by really good speakers, just shown to be broken very well. Advice is a very useful thing. I believe there's a place called HiFi Centre (http://www.hificentre.com) in Vancouver? That would be a good place to start. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1446 Registered: Feb-04 | For a given budget, it's better to spend a little more on your source components (CD player and amp) and a little less on the speakers since a low fidelity signal can't be corrected by really good speakers, just shown to be broken very well. And then there's the opposite school of thought, so that's an opinion that isn't shared by everyone. My opinion is that there is much more sonic differences between speakers than there is between sources. I'll take it further and say that in my opinion there are likely more sonic differences from switching crossover designs in the same loudspeakers than in most source changes. |
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New member Username: Will22Vancouver, British Colu... Canada Post Number: 4 Registered: Oct-05 | Thanks for the insight Frank. I have heard of the Totem's before - a good company from Montreal I believe. They are terrific looking speakers and I have heard good things about them, in particular the Rainmaker bookshelf. However, I tend to lean towards the school of thought raied by Peter that there are steady and present differences between speaker sources that can make sources moot (to a point). Although your perspective also makes perfect sense to me; ie. garbage in, garbage out. But for some reason I think the limit in marginal benefit is reached faster (in terms of price) when it comes to sources. Because really, if I had an extra $500 to spend, I'd utilize it in getting better speakers that I may not have been able to previously afford. But then again, what do I know? Interesting perspectives though. I am new to this so I'm just trying to soak everything in. Thanks for the opinions Frank and Peter. |
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New member Username: WillfiPost Number: 4 Registered: Oct-05 | Will, your decision to use the NAD for front end with a quality speaker is the best decision in my opinion. This will give you great sound to start with the ability to upgrade and compare sources in the future without missing a beat. Like I said the c542 is an amazing player and will not be much of a limiting factor at all, and this player is "safe" so it'll allow you to get some experience on what you prefer so if you do decide to upgrade you'll have a good idea what you'd like to get. I do belive that a NADc542/c352/Quad 21L will serve your needs very well. Also another speaker I was considering at the time was the Epos 15.2 .Them and the Quad 21l's are fairly similar with the difference mainly between the tweeters - hard for Epos and soft for Quads. When playing female vocalists I found that the Quads have a very smooth transition from mid to tweet while the Epos tended to sweeten things up. For Rock and Roll the Epos would be a little better as they have a little more sizzle. I've also auditioned Totems and I find them best suited for soft rock and more mellow music, they are very flowing. I would say that they are not the most dynamic especially with some upfront Jazz, they seem to lack a bit of Pop to them. |
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Bronze Member Username: Cousin_itPost Number: 43 Registered: May-05 | William, I don't like to recommend gear anymore, but I do think a pair of Ohm MicroWalsh Talls would be worth considering. Because they are only sold factory direct, I sometimes feel compelled to tell people about them. I've owned a pair for about a year, and I've compared them to almost everything. They'll work well with your NAD system, they don't look too bad, they'll ship to Canada (don't have to worry about shortage of stores) and will absolutely deliver in Jazz and Classical music. Here's a review: http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/walsh/micro.html |
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New member Username: WillfiPost Number: 7 Registered: Oct-05 | William Harrison can you turn on your pm's. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 967 Registered: Sep-04 | Peter, So what is the opposite school of thought? How on earth is a speaker, no matter how good, going to fix a broken signal? And how is this even the speaker's job? I agree and appreciate that speakers are respoonsible for the ultimate sound and they produce as much difference as anything else. However, the fact remains that once the signal is broken, you can't unbreak it. There may be less differences sonically from different electronics, but there are many more differences musically in my view. The NAD components that are being talked about are fine components at their price range, but the fact remains that a better quality CD player is likely to give far more engaging results than a better speaker. In fact, if the speaker's really good, it could simply show up the faults of the electronics. It's not unheard of, and source-first principles argue that it's better for the speaker to mask the faults than to expose them. Personally I believe more in balance, but weighted toward the source rather than the other way around. I would advise Will to go to a dealer or two and ask for demonstrations of various options that would fall within his budget. By all means do the NAD thing, but have a listen to a system with an alternative approach. You could be surprised. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: Will22Vancouver, British Colu... Canada Post Number: 6 Registered: Oct-05 | Thanks for the opinions guys. I would be interested to hear more regarding the relative importance of sources. Don't these things reach a limit relatively quickly? Obviously a really expensive Krell system would probably sound amazing (and really stretch your wallet too), but what about for us mere frugal mortals. I thought source manufacturers basically used the same parts (ie. some generic DAC made in Asia). I am probably going to learn a lesson from some purist for making such an uneducated comment... Hey Will (Willfi), what do you mean PM's? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2643 Registered: Mar-05 | William, The following thread might be of interest, especially postings #1259 (on DACs) and #1260 (testimony of a NAD owner) on page 42: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=530504&page=42&p p=30 |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 971 Registered: Sep-04 | William, Most car manufacturers use common parts and components. the cars they make differ considerably. This is true of electronics just as much as anything else. Also, there's not much point in buying a £7000 CD player if the same manufacturer makes a £3000 player and a £1500, but these manufacturers do exist and the more expensive players/preamps/power amps all sell to varying degrees. I agree that one should not make a decision on the basis of the technology that's used. In fact, that's what I've been saying all along! Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 976 Registered: Sep-04 | Incidentally, yes, there is a law of diminishing returns, but in your case you simply want the best value system your money can buy irrespective of whether it is source weighted or not. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: WillfiPost Number: 16 Registered: Oct-05 | William, Turn on Private Messaging (PM) in your user profile so I can ask you something in Private. Thanks |