Just Music!
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Christina Radh Unregistered guest | hey everyone, im very new to all this, but as a self-respecting music fan i know i have to get a proper "system" and that I have to ultimately trust my own ears. i just hope u guys will give me some love and help me narrow my search while i test the big, bad world of Audio in Dubai! i live in an apartment (plenty of sunlight & air-conditioning!) and my living room is probably 18ft x 10ft. Tiled floor. 6 ft French windows along one side. No drapes, no curtains, no rugs...just an L shaped couch, 2 coffee tables and art on the walls. My musical tastes totally vary, although im very partial to Brit Pop & Punk Rock. Some of my fav albums, in no particular order, are: Nevermind- Nirvana London Calling- Clash OK Computer- Radiohead The Black Album- Jay Z DSOTM- Pink Floyd Best of- Marilyn Manson Come With Us- Chemical Brothers Parklife- Blur *****es Brew- Miles Davis If you were me and had US$ 3000ish to spend, what would your ideal combo be? Please list as; 1. Speakers 2. Amp 3. CD Player Many thanks in advance, c |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1975 Registered: Feb-05 | Rotel RA 1062 integrated amp $700 Rotel RCD 1072 CD player $700 B&W DM 603 S3 speakers $1000 per pair This setup leaves you money for buying new music or a competent sub. This setup should be very good for the kind of music you listen to. Good luck with your shopping. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 256 Registered: Apr-04 | You'll pay top dollar for Rotel and they ARE NOT available for sale on the internet. On the other hand the NAD C352 integrated amp ($599) & NAD C542 CD Player ($499) are excellent and you can find them at BELOW list prices at www.saturdayaudio.com. Check them out and call them for a price quote. By the way...To my ears, the NAD has a warmer sound than Rotel. I own both. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2598 Registered: Mar-05 | Dubai...wow, now that's supposed to be a huge shopping mecca! However if it's anything like Saudi Arabia, where I worked for 2 years, selection is poor (lots of Sony, Kenwood, and JVC crap) and prices high. To begin with, what audio brands are available there besides those Japanese mega-corps? I am not sure you even need to spend $3K for a great 2-channel system, unless that money is just burning a hole in your pocket. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 257 Registered: Apr-04 | Oh...speakers...You need not pay anything close to $1,000 for speakers. Check out The Athena Audition Line. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 6170 Registered: May-04 | CR - I have no idea what is available to you so I have no way to make any specific recommendations regarding what products to buy. However, "Tiled floor. 6 ft French windows along one side. No drapes, no curtains, no rugs...just an L shaped couch, 2 coffee tables and art on the walls", spells P-R-O-B-L-E-M-S. What you have described is a very "hard" room. Hard refers, in this case, to the surfaces and their abilty to either reflect, absorb or diffuse the soundwaves that strike the surface. In your case, everything will reflect the sound and cause multiple sound waves (closely spaced echoes) which strike your ears at slightly different intervals. The results will hardly be "high fidelity" no matter what equipment you purchase. The simplest way to demonstrate the problem is clapping your hands or shouting in your room and then in a room with "soft" surfaces. If you hear the small echoes of your signal, you will get the same results with whatever speakers are placed in this room. The audibility of the system is compromised in this type of room since the mid and high frequency energy has no natural absorption. Bass response will be deficient since the signals continue to move and reflect in the room and literally bang into one another. I would suspect your room sounds quite "alive" when someone speaks in the room. Given your choice in music, I think a warning is in order before you plunge into a system which might prove too overbearing in your room. If you read through the archives of this section on the forum, you will see several questions regarding how to tame rooms similar to yours to provide good sound quality. You might also read some of the articles on this section of the forum before you commit to a purchase. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/accessories/1664.html One route would be to accommodate your room with speakers which roll off the high frequencies slightly and let the room make up the emphasis the speakers remove. This is generally a band aid approach and has the problem of being correct only when used in this location (if at all). The more accepted response to getting good sound in such a room is to treat the hard surfaces in order to gain more absorption of the mids and highs. This sort of treatment will actually bring about better and deeper bass response in your room. Of course, the choice is yours to make, but doing nothing other than placing speakers in this room is likely to cause problems down the road. You might also want to read a few articles on speaker placement in order to get the best out of your system in this room. http://www.decware.com/paper14.htm Good luck. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1977 Registered: Feb-05 | Heed Jan's points on room treatments. If you have a 3k budget and want to buy good gear for your listening preferences, my opinion is go for the best you can get for the dollars. Obviously you can spend less and just as obviously you can spend tens of thousands of dollars more. My recommendation was based on your budget and listening preference. As much as I like NAD I don't think it is as successful for your musical tastes as Rotel and I've owned them both. B&W speakers are a fabulous match for Rotel electronics. Also as Jan says room treatment in your case will be essential. Ofcourse all of our suggestions may be moot depending on the availability of gear in your area of the world. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 330 Registered: Feb-05 | Christina: Jans input should certainly be considered and some type of room treatment and/or rearrangement will be required. Once the room acoustics issues have been addressed you can begin to think about equipment. I won't reccomend speakers since you have to listen and decide for yourself but I can give you some alternatives to the Rotel or NAD. You could also consider the Parasound 2 channel gear which is immensely powerful and clean also Adcom and B&K great choices as well which all of these should fit into your given budget. All three of these makes will offer an interesting and IMO better option than the Rotel or NAD. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 258 Registered: Apr-04 | Remember, you don't have to spend big bucks for good sound. Take the money that you save and acoustically soften your room with an area rug, curtains and pillows. Then, have fun entertaining your friends with your freshly decorated room and new sound system. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1980 Registered: Feb-05 | Adcom makes high quality power amps but I would skip their pre amps, some of the worst in the business. Eric mentioned a couple of other really good brands Parasound and B&K. B&K may be out of your price range however. Good quality amplifiers can be had for great prices used at Audiogon. Just check their classifieds online. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 259 Registered: Apr-04 | If you feel that you need to spend more for speakers, Paradigm and B&W are fine choices. Both are great with NAD components. |
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Unregistered guest | Wow! You guys are just the best! Thank you to every single one of you for your time & assistance. These below are 2 of the "top" audio outfits in Dubai. (I wont even bother listing the Bose/JBL showrooms...yes, plenty around!) http://www.dubaiaudio.com/audio.htm http://www.vvsons.com/prefessionalequipmentsuppl.html There is also a B&W and Rotel distributor, but none of them have websites. I've tested NAD amps (C372, C660) & CDP (C542), DefTech BP 8 speakers, JM Labs speakers & some Marantz gear. Next Saturday, off to B&W et al with a print-out of your collective suggestions. (also taking carpet-makeover seriously!) Its no exagerration when I say the salesman here have absolutely no clue. But then they receive no training either so overall everyones quite content at their 10-7 jobs in la-la land.... i could go on but I think its best we save the topic of customer service levels in the UAE for another day & forum! Once again, many thanks, c |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 662 Registered: May-05 | Christina, I listen to similar music as you. All of the suggestions here have been very good, and I believe the room is probably the most important and neglected component in a stereo system. I would like to add NAD with PSB speakers. This is what I found about a year ago when I was looking to buy a completely new stereo - To me, the Rotel and B&W were a little too bland, especially together. Marantz was a little too laid back compared to NAD. The difference to me was like sitting in a back row of a concert with slower bass (Marantz) compared to being up front with fast tight bass (NAD). To me Adcom sounded a little muffled, like their was a heavy sheet/light blanket over the speakers. B&K sounded somewhat better, but similar. I haven't hear Parasound, but I've been told they are very good. For speakers, I liked DefTech very much. I thought they weren't the most detailed music speakers though. I also liked Klipsch RF series (not Synergy Series). In the first 5-10 minutes, I thought these were the best speakers, hands down. My dealer asked me to listen to them for about 20-30 minutes and tell him what I thought then. After about 25 minutes, I had to turn them off. They were way too bright and my ears were ringing from normal - not too loud - volume levels. Like I said earlier, I found B&W a bit too bland. To me, it came down to Paradigm and PSB. I can't remember the Paradigm model, around $1000 tower. They sounded similar, yet different. I don't know exactly what it was, but I liked the PSB's better. The deal became even sweeter when I got the PSB's for a little more than half the retail price for a new - not used, returned, blemished, etc - pair of Image T55's. Even if both were at full retail price, I'd have bought the PSB's. I didn't know about the special price until I opened my wallet. In the end, I bought the NAD C320BEE, and PSB Image T55's. Had I needed more power and had more money, I would have bought either the NAD C352 or C372. I have an older NAD cd changer - 523 - that I was also going to replace with a C542 until I re-discovered something much better - Turntables. If you already have a decent CD player and access to buying records, I'd strongly suggest a good Turntable. I initially bought a Pro-Ject Debut III, but upgraded it to a Pro-Ject 1 Xpression. If you really want to get the most out of your stereo, you owe it to yourself to try out Vinyl. Both Turntables were very good for the money, but I felt the 1 Xpression was definately worth the extra money. The Debut III retails for $279 US and the 1 Xpression retails for $450 US. If going this route, you'd also most likely need a phono pre-amp, unless the integrated amp or pre-amp you buy has one built in. NAD and Pro-Ject both make equally good phono pre-amps for about $120 US. I bought the NAD because that is what my dealer had on hand. These are just my opinions though. You may find that they are completely off or right on. The only way is to listen for yourself to as many different things as possible. Also, don't buy the salesman's favorite gear, buy your favorite gear. I say this because the place where I bought my NAD C320BEE didn't want to sell it to me. The salesman actually argued with me and tried to force me to buy a Marantz stereo receiver for about $150 more. I listened to it, but eliminated it after I heard their integrated amp. After argueing with him for about 15 minutes, I said "If you don't want to sell me the NAD, I'll buy it from someone who does." He said "Well, if that's what you want then I guess I have to sell it to you." Like he was doing me a favor. The owner overheard this and gave me $50 off, not that that's what I was looking for or expected. My point is be careful. Find a dealer who listens to you and what you want, not what he/she wants to sell. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 663 Registered: May-05 | Sorry - Just to add to my previous post... The only thing I've ever bought and will never buy from the above mentioned dealer was the NAD integrated amp. |
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Christina Radh Unregistered guest | aah LP's! i would jump at that, if only Dubai had a decent supply of them. As an expatriate, the day will come when i will try life in another country, and with that i hope i can get back-to-the-basics with scores of things including music, writing by hand and making lemonade with real lemons! cheers everyone! |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 556 Registered: Dec-03 | I want to emphasize what Jan, Art, Eric and Rick have said. Acoustically treat that room before you spend US$3000 on a system. A US$2000 system will sound better in a properly treated room than the 3K one in an untreated room. It can't be emphasized enough that the room is part of your system.Two keys points: Absorb bass, diffract highs. Many people think they are controlling high frequencies by putting in damping panels when in reality all they are doing is reducing the energy of those signals in the room. The result is that the bass still overpowers the highs. Bass traps and diffraction panels. That's the ticket! |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 557 Registered: Dec-03 | Making an assumption on your ceiling height being 7.5 feet that will give you a 56Hz room mode, the 1/4 wave of which is about 5 feet. Try to avoid placing speakers at those intervals. The center line of your room is going to be a problem for a seating point so try to be off to one side or another or even set up your system on the diagonal rather than the perpendicular. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 968 Registered: Sep-04 | Christina I was about to point you at Dubai Audio since they have many brands I regard quite highly but I'm dismayed at your report of lack of service. Well, the brands are good! As for LPs, well that's what online shopping is for isn't it?  Try http://www.vivante.co.uk. They'll export to pretty much anywhere and give excellent service. As to record decks, well, loads around... regards, Frank. |
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Christina Radh Unregistered guest | Thx for the URL Frank. However, the hassle of dealing with the local Customs department doesnt make it a viable option for me. You have to remember that the UAE is an Islamic country that censors content. For example, I can never buy the Manic Street Preachers album "The Holy Bible" here, simply because of the word "Bible" in the title. Although I must add that things are improving, albeit at a slow rate. Today, I can buy an uncensored Greenday or Manson CD that I couldnt as little as 18 months ago. Cheers, d |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 728 Registered: Dec-03 | As long as they let you blast London Calling, then maybe you can really Rock the Casbah! |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 420 Registered: Apr-05 | Christina you are going to tell me you can't find a Persian rug in Dubai that you like and throw it on that tile floor? That should help a lot. |
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