HDMI Compatible A/V Receiver - Hold the analog crap

DH New member Username: Vade64 Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-05	Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 11:41 GMT What is the deal these days with a near $1000 a/v system that still has all of thos red/white/yellow RCA's on the back of them? Are there really that many folks out there that watch that much VHS programming? How about this... THX certified unit, component, optical, DVI, and HDMI connections only (maybe one composite and one analog for legacy programming, CD, VHS), sub, speakers and that's it. Take a look at the back of the Onkyo TX-NR1000 http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR1000&class=Receiver&p=i That is just nuts. Is all of that really necessary? I guess the logic is that if you're paying that much for a unit, the kitchen sink is not to be left out. I am looking to upgrade from a Sony STR and want HDMI switching but it appears that there isn't much out there just yet.
Edster922 Gold Member Username: Edster922 Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2569 Registered: Mar-05	Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 14:05 GMT This is what's called Gadget Geek Eye Candy. Those looking for real SQ tend to look elsewhere. The good news is, it won't be hard for you to buy AVRs that offer a huge SQ improvement over a Sony STR though...and probably without paying $1000! Here's an example of a surprisingly affordable HDMI receiver with stellar sound quality and the opposite of a Gadget Geek appliance: http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product_Code=PAN+SAXR70S&JRSource=PriceG rabber.datafeed.PAN+SAXR70S You can read up on its sister, the sa-xr55 whose main difference is the lack of HDMI: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/160136.html http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=1251&page=1&p p=10 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=530504 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=417894
Gregory Stern Silver Member Username: Gman Mt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 708 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 14:12 GMT The new Denon avr 3806 (not THX)lists for about $1299. It can be gotten from various internet outlets for less than $1,000. It has HDMI and D-link (if you happen to have a D-Link equipped Denon dvd player, which will allow it to pass all audio in digital form: from stereo to multi-channel). It also has Audyssey, which is currently the most sophisticated method for acoustically balancing your speaker/room/listener/listeners interface. Has built-in XM radio capability (if you subscribe). Does not have a firewire (i-link) connection. Hence, if you want to listen to dvd-a or sacd in multichannel through a digital connection, you must get a Denon universal dvd player with D-link. Otherwise you will need a bunch of analog cables for the separate channels. Yamaha has the RX-V1600 and RX-V2600 with similar capabilities, except no Audyssey, but a more standard type of acoustic EQ. Onkyo TX-SR803 is THX Select 2 and has similar capabilities to the Yamahas. Pioneer Elite 74Txi MSRP $1700 THX Select2 (can be gotten at less than $1200)has the most digital capabilities: USB for connecting to computer or IPOD for playing music, HDMI, firewire (i-link), XM radio, and also has an auto functioning acoustic speaker balancing speaker. The Pioneer Elite 72TX THX Select2(MSRP $1400) can be gotten for under $1,000. It has most (if not all) of the capabilities of the 74, but no firewire (i-link). I am sure there are some others that I have left out--particularly more expensive ones. You should first research these various models for their capabilities and if possible visit stores that carry the ones you are interested in, in order for you to see which ones you like better (from remotes to their varying capabilities). Sonically, in their flat modes they will all sound about the same, unless you have some very difficult speakers to drive. The Denon with the Audyssey chipset is likely to balance your acoustic field better than the others. How dramatic that difference is--I don't know. If I felt some need to have THX in the spec I might go for the 74TXi (as I have a dvd player with firewire (i-link), which allows for the use of a single wire to pass everything audio in digital (from stereo to multi-channel: cd's, dvd-v's, dvd-a, sacd, and others, such as WMA-9). Otherwise I would probably go for the Denon AVR 3806 if the most precise soundfield (whether for music or movie watching) is the most important aspect for you. With Denon, you have to go much higher in the product line to get THX certifications. This is not to say the non-THX models don't perform as well (or better), just that the bean counters at Denon (and various other manufacturers) often don't want to pay THX for the certifications and they want to meet a price point. Remember, this is just one man's opinion.
Stu Pitt Silver Member Username: Stu_pitt NYC, NY Post Number: 658 Registered: May-05	Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 23:49 GMT Here's something I've always wondered... With all of that 'gadget geek' stuff, THX certification and liscensing fees, and DSP modes that end up making the sound worse than with it off, how much of the $1000 price tag goes into sound quality?
Edster922 Gold Member Username: Edster922 Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2573 Registered: Mar-05	Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 01:57 GMT "With all of that 'gadget geek' stuff, THX certification and liscensing fees, and DSP modes that end up making the sound worse than with it off, how much of the $1000 price tag goes into sound quality?" EXACTLY! This is what happens when the marketing department takes the place of the engineers.
Gregory Stern Silver Member Username: Gman Mt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 710 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 16:26 GMT For that matter, how much discernible audible sound quality goes into $10,000 amps and preamps? Many of these companies need truly great marketting departments (to go along with huge ad budgets) to influence the high end subjective audiophile press. Although how much convincing they need is quite little, as they are "true believers". You generally need a great marketting department and a cooperative self-serving press to influence the consumer that getting less is more. That the 1,000 op amps and numerous DACS and DSP's used in the recording process, the production process, and the post production and mastering process is less important than the fewer items in their components. Somehow high tech advances in video are far more accepted--maybe because comparison tests and MEASUREMENTS are given more credence in that arena. In the subjective press, audio measurements are generally disregarded in terms of performance and double blind ABX tests are a no-no for numerous self-serving reasons.
Jan Vigne Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 6226 Registered: May-04	Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 17:06 GMT YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW!
Gregory Stern Silver Member Username: Gman Mt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 711 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 20:25 GMT Gee-what a suprise. And I was hoping for a reply from David Ranada, Tom Nousaine, Siegried Linkwitz, or Ken Pohlmann :-)
Stu Pitt Silver Member Username: Stu_pitt NYC, NY Post Number: 670 Registered: May-05	Posted on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 21:32 GMT I really wasn't trying to re-open this can of worms... My bad...
Edster922 Gold Member Username: Edster922 Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2636 Registered: Mar-05	Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 02:53 GMT Gregory, I can't comment on $10K gear since I've never gone anywhere near that ballpark but I can tell you that closer to Earth-level prices, a $400 NAD 320bee sounds a hell of a lot better to my ears than one of these fancy-schmancy gadget-geek-wet-dream Onkyos with their 1001 useless bells and whistles. For simple 2-channel music performance that is. Frankly for HT who really cares? All you need is low distortion and adequate power for all the speakers, at least 80% of your attention is focused on the screen not on what's coming out of the speakers.
Gvenk Unregistered guest	Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 03:35 GMT Always amazed that even so-called audiophiles talk like utter newbies when it comes to video experience and what makes for a high quality HT experience. Perhaps they are... On the matter of pricing, it is difficult to compare a mass-market unit pricing to a low-volume boutique shop unit pricing because of economies of scale that allows mass-market manufacturers to provide more than the boutique store for less money than what the boutique store would have paid for it. This is a serious problem when boutique stores want to get into HT. The HT equipment will need a number of features that are not all that distinguished from one manufacturer to another - auto eq, speaker balance, various connectivity features, eq. But nevertheless features that make it easy for people to use. It will cost boutique stores with low volumes a lot more to put these in than mass-market manufacturers and these particular features will not be any better than the mass-produced stuff. In 2-channel audio equipment, they could stay in the purist mode and not require the required bells-and-whistles but in HT this is a serious handicap for boutique stores to move into HT. For maintaining the same SQ of a boutique product in a HT component, the price differential becomes even higher. Now some of the veru high-end manufacturers can get away by adding another $1000 to their $10k equipment but companies like NAD, ADCOM, B&K, etc., are going to find it very difficult to make the price points work for HT.

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