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Silver Member Username: TpizzlePost Number: 397 Registered: Apr-05 | i have to have a sub by late december when i move into my 1st appartment. my decision has been to go with an HSU for $400 but i also have been researching other brands such as Paradigm. I have come across a few Paradigm ps-1000's for $220 used. They msrp for the same as HSU but are USED. what do you guys think, these paradigms have done amazing with reviews, has anyone here heard them? |
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Silver Member Username: TpizzlePost Number: 398 Registered: Apr-05 | or how about a slightly used definitive technologies pro sub 80 for just $150. it also sells new for $350. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2343 Registered: Mar-05 | db-bass, Just think about it: if you were a speaker company and already have your distributor network setup, plus you make say 90% of your revenue from your speaker sales, then roll in the subwoofers for those gullible/clueless consumers who believe it when some salesperson tells them it's important to "match" the subwoofer with the speakers...just how hard would YOU work to come up with the best possible bang for the buck when designing and producing your subwoofers, compared to a company whose *only* bread and butter is subwoofers? We already know that most electronics manufacturers (Sony, Pioneer, Kenwood, etc.) make garbage speakers precisely because they can get away with it. What would possibly be different about speaker companies making crap subs because they know they can get away with it too? Just a question. I'm sure there are some decent subs made by speaker companies out there but I'd bet that you can get same or better quality from Internet-direct sub specialists like Hsu and SVS for a lot less money. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1854 Registered: Feb-05 | It ain't close the Hsu just kills the Paradigm PS series subs. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1856 Registered: Feb-05 | There are actually far better subs made by speaker companies than by Hsu or SVS just not by Paradigm. The best high end subs are all made by speaker manufacturers or specialty sub makers like REL, Martin Logan, Vandersteen just to name a few. Paradigm Servo 15 is a sub to be reckoned with and I don't believe that any internet direct sub can compete. However the PS series subs are some of the worst subs manufactured by anyone. They are slow, plodding, inarticulate noise makers. Hsu is unbeatable in the budget sub category with only Outlaw as competition. Some folks believe that SVS is in there as well. My experience was different but to each his/her own. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2356 Registered: Mar-05 | Art you're right of course about the HIGH-end speaker makers but like yours truly, db-bass here is nowhere near that particular market segment. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2357 Registered: Mar-05 | ...as the old saw goes, money can buy you practically ANYthing if you have enough of it. |
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Silver Member Username: TpizzlePost Number: 401 Registered: Apr-05 | ill save up for a hsu then. i wish they had a few retailers so the prices would potentially drop a bit... but i shouldnt be complaining considering hsu is still 1/2 the price of most quality subs. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1859 Registered: Feb-05 | Retailers would actually drive the prices up. That's is why they remain internet direct, to eliminate the middle-man so to speak. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 453 Registered: Jul-05 | "Retailers would actually drive the prices up. That's is why they remain internet direct, to eliminate the middle-man so to speak." Somewhat.. A larger manufacturer with a good distribution network will still hold economies of scale over HSU. Also, since HSU acts as the retailer, they still have to jack up the price some to account for things like returns, theft, their sales force + website operations, etc. They also must warehouse goods which can be costly, particularly if they are doing it in California, where they are based. Finally, you still have to account for shipping costs on top of their low low price. HSU does overall seem to be a good value. But, I imagine a large corporation like Harman International could probably make a competitively priced product while still maintaining profitability if they so desired. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2368 Registered: Mar-05 | "if they so desired." I would stress the "if" there... |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 454 Registered: Jul-05 | *shrug* I would still say that overall HSU's business model isn't overly efficient largely due to the fact that they serve a small niche market. They simply can't match that good old mass Chinese manufacturing. But, as I said, HSU does offer a good value, especially considering that liability. It leads me to wonder how profitable they are, and how long they can keep it up. It is nice to see a company that isn't trying to ream consumers though. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2369 Registered: Mar-05 | well they might actually have a factory in China and just assemble a few nominal pieces just to claim "made in the USA" for all we know, maybe that's another way they keep prices low. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 455 Registered: Jul-05 | Possible, but their production costs per unit would still be higher simply due to the low volume. |
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Silver Member Username: TpizzlePost Number: 402 Registered: Apr-05 | thanks guys. i skipped Econ 201 today and just studied from this thread. i remember having the "distribution channel" discussion in econ a few weeks ago and it wasnt proven to either raise or lower prices. There are arguments supporting both sides. selling direct can lessen shipping costs and "middleman costs" but having to do everything yourself will also cost the business more (equipment expenses, more employee wages, larger factory = higher rent expense). However HSU is doing, they are doing it efficiently considering they are selling a $1000 quality sub for $400. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1070 Registered: Jun-05 | The Phase Tech Servo Subs are very good for the money to,as is the Tannoy subs,I like HSU,but for the Dollar I think the best are the Definitive subs,and they have a very wide range of adjustments,Art you are right about the Paradigm subs and yes the Servo 15 is quite spectacular in its price range,I love that sub.The Definitive subs are extremely impressive from the top to the absolute bottom of their line the best line of subs out there for the money. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2389 Registered: Mar-05 | Tawaun, is there a DefTech sub you'd recommend in the $400 range that equals or surpasses the STF-2? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1071 Registered: Jun-05 | No,Eddie That is what makes Hsu special,if it was my though at $549 for the extra $150 you get a much better sub.My uncle has the STF-2 its the best that money can buy all in around performance at that price.If you like music the PS 100tl would be my choice for $449 and it hits like no 10 inch sub that I know of,if you watch a lot of movies the PS 200tl it will even stomp the SVS in the extension and power department with more deffinition than the STF and the VTF for music. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2394 Registered: Mar-05 | So the PS200t is the $550 one? Is it available online? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1073 Registered: Jun-05 | I dont know if you can buy Defintive online,I know B&W and Rotel dont, some manufactors wont sell their stuff online. |
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Silver Member Username: TpizzlePost Number: 406 Registered: Apr-05 | how is this sub http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=definitive+subwoofer ...and if its as good as the price tag please dont bid on it. just kiddin "i am the type thats liable to snipe you, with two seconds left to go...yaaay" -weird al 'ebay.' love that song |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5964 Registered: May-04 | http://www.us.alegriaaudio.com/Tom%20Subwoofer.htm |
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Silver Member Username: TpizzlePost Number: 407 Registered: Apr-05 | a little out of my price range, but nice lookin sub |
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Anonymous | Does sub needed to be timbre matched with other speakers in the system? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5987 Registered: May-04 | Only if they both have nice wood cabinets. |
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Anonymous | ???? My question is if you mix brands on sub and speakers, will it produce inconsistent transistion in the 40-80hz area? |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 464 Registered: Jul-05 | Witty Jan, witty. Anon: No. More than a few people have obtained subs produced by companies other than that which produced their speakers and have reported excellent results. |