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Bronze Member Username: Look4sunPost Number: 69 Registered: Sep-04 | Hello guys, Right now my choice for front speaker is Paradigm Studio 100v3 and Monitor Audio Silver S10. Okay, both speaker offer tremendous value in sound and price. For the price, I've been offered Paradigm Studio 100v3 for USD1,700/pair whereas the Monitor Audio Silver S10 for USD1,180/pair. The difference between these speaker I think not too significant. . Suppose you guys have to choose between these 2 speakers, which one do you prefer ? Pls help me by giving your opinions and perhaps some your advise and experience with these speakers. I really appreciate all of your advise. Fyi, what I heard the Studio 100vs do require powerful (I really mean "powerful") amplifier to drive them. Even the DENON 3805 and YAMAHA 2500 not possible to unload the Studio 100 potential sound. (I think this is the minus point (only) for Studio 100). Rgds, sun |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2273 Registered: Mar-05 | Paradigm Studios, hands down. You might want to try the tiny, featherweight Panasonic sa-xr55 pure digital receiver...it actually outmuscled my 4-ohm compatible 100wpc NAD separates without breaking a sweat. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1802 Registered: Feb-05 | The Paradigm Studio 100's are great speakers but do yourself a favor and mate them with real electronics not a Panasonic digital receiver. They deserve better. I'm sure that the Panasonic is a nice little receiver and I could see you trying with a pair of Mini Monitors but I would not do that to the Studio 100's. Studio 100's only require a substantial amp to reach their full potential. The Receivers that you mentioned will drive them just fine because they are a relatively efficient speaker. |
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PatrickBateman Unregistered guest | Well it shows you how opinions vary. I auditioned both, as well as many others, and much preferred the Monitor Audio S10's. Not that I didnt like the Paradigms though |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2284 Registered: Mar-05 | look4sun, Art's point is valid...in the context of your typical analog gear that is. Not sure about all digital gear. I've heard of people driving 4 ohm Magnepan planars with the xr55 without any problems, and THOSE are most certainly much more difficult to drive unless you have a very muscular analog amp with say 200wpc and above. So like I said, all-digital is a whole other ballgame. Since there surely must be a Circuit city in your area with very liberal return policies, I'd first experiment with the Panny xr55 just the same...you might be very surprised! |
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Anoynymous Unregistered guest | look4sun, I do own the Paradigm's that you mentioned, what can I say, they are great speakers and yes, they are very power hungry. You will need separates or a very good integrated to get the best out of them. Sorry edster but I totally agree with Art, If you remember I already auditioned the Panny and I can tell for what I heard that this receiver will have some trouble driving the Studios 100v3, then again, this is just my opinion. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2288 Registered: Mar-05 | anon, I stress the word "might" in my last sentence there since I have never tried the Studio 100s myself. Still, the Studio 100s are indeed massive but they are 8 ohms with 91db sensitivity. The Maggies (MMG) are 4 ohms and 86db. So unless those posters on the other forum threads who say the xr55 drives the Maggies without a problem are lying for some reason, I can't imagine the xr55 not being able to handle the 100s even more readily...at least not on paper. |
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Anoynymous Unregistered guest | edster, No, I don't think people are lying when they say that the panny drives the maggies just fine, I don't think you lie when you say that your new amp sounds better than your vintage gear, what I said is that to my ears the 55 will have trouble with the paradigm's. Please let me stress the sentences "to my ears" and "In my opinion" because I think it really comes down to that, we all hear things differently that is all. I think is all subjective and as we very well know the best thing to do would be to audition the gear that you are wanting to buy but frequently is a very difficult task to do. Regards |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2291 Registered: Mar-05 | Fair enough, I can't find anything to disagree with there! : ) |
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Bronze Member Username: Look4sunPost Number: 70 Registered: Sep-04 | Okay. I welcome everyone opinions and appreciate with their difference opinion with Studio 100. Below is an excerpt from one of the review I got with Studio 100. This article I wrote down without any editing. . "The Studio/100 v.3's voltage sensitivity is above average, at an estimated 88.5dB/2.83V/m, which is within the margin of error of the earlier v.2's measured sensitivity of 89.5dB. The speaker's impedance plot (fig.1) reveals it still to be quite a demanding load, however, with a magnitude that drops to 2.5 ohms at 104Hz. The enclosure was well-braced and damped. The only resonant mode I could find on its panels lay at quite a high frequency of 426Hz. This was well down in level except on the back panel (fig.2), where its effect on sound quality will be reduced. " . As you read, the Studio could drop to 2.5 Ohm at certain frequency and (from the review graph) I see this Studio 100 almost on average frequency lay on 4 Ohm. . To Edster, yr suggestion on Panasonic to drive this I think I would doubt it (not to discredit yr advice). Anyway, I'll try to search the review of this Panasonic. . For the Monitor Audio Silver S10, I could see this speakers have average 6 Ohm. (sorry couldn't give the review article). . To ArtKyle, you mention the Denon 3805 and Yamaha 2500 is ok to drive them. If this is possible, which one receiver do you choose Denon or Yamaha ? Oh yes, pls don't suggest me to use the Marantz - I am not a fans with Marantz. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2302 Registered: Mar-05 | > Anyway, I'll try to search the review of this Panasonic. Do a search on the avsforum.com for "list of digital receivers" and "panasonic sa-xr55." Both huge threads, especially the first one which is over a year old. That should keep you occupied for a couple of hours, really a lot there. |
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Silver Member Username: AudioholicPost Number: 164 Registered: Apr-05 | "The enclosure was well-braced and damped. The only resonant mode I could find on its panels lay at quite a high frequency of 426Hz. This was well down in level except on the back panel (fig.2), where its effect on sound quality will be reduced. " One has to wonder if the good folks at Paradigm decided to leave in that box resonance for A) Signiture sound, or B) Cost constraints, or C) Couldn't get rid of it no matter what they tried and gave up, or D) Didn't know/care it was there. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1820 Registered: Feb-05 | It's really a matter of taste which you prefer. Both the Yamaha and the Denon should do the job. My guess is that an HK or Pioneer Elite would as well. I suggest you go and listen and choose the one that sounds best to you. Notice that I did noy mention Marantz...lol. |
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New member Username: ChrisePost Number: 3 Registered: Jan-05 | Edster, Where did you A/B the MA's and Paradigm's? What receiver was used? Thanks, Chris |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2309 Registered: Mar-05 | Didn't A/B them, they were at different dealers. I heard the MAs on a NAD c372 integrated, and the Paradigms off a Marantz 5500 and 7500. |
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New member Username: ChrisePost Number: 4 Registered: Jan-05 | Oh, you listened to the MA's at AV Solutions with the Nad. I assume you heard the Paradigms at All Star. Are the Studio's discontinued? It just caught my eye that you recommended them over the Silvers "hands down", especially at the difference in price the poster noted. What was your main beef with the MA's, in terms of being significantly poorer than the Paradigms? Look4sun didn't say he could demo either, so I assume he can't. He should probably try, instead of depending on opinions. I admit I haven't listened to either (I own Bronzes, thus my interest in this thread), but choosing the Silvers wth no demo at $500 less than the Paradigms is worth considering. Chris |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2313 Registered: Mar-05 | Right on both counts. Nice to have another Houstonian on this board! I actually didn't find the MAs particularly noxious when I was listening to them, but when I heard the same Marantz 4300 CDP at home on my Ascend 340s (also running NAD power source) the difference was tremendous which I can only attribute to the speakers. The Ascends seem to be much more accurate and neutral speakers with a stronger midrange, though the MAs of course had deeper bass and a snappy/zingy kind of high end. The Paradigms I heard several months before that, so take this with a grain of salt but I just remember being very impressed with them and felt that they had a nice balance of warmth and detail. I would actually choose the Ascend 340s over both speakers though, the savings can be put into a good subwoofer if you don't already have one, or any number of other audio things. |
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New member Username: ChrisePost Number: 5 Registered: Jan-05 | I dunno, I am beginning to think that room over at AV might be screwed up. Aaron (the salesman) alluded to that he didn't like the characteristics of that room, and now you are saying things that make me wonder more. I say this because when I brought my Bronze's home, they sounded infinitely better than at AV. I am using an Elite AVR, but I would have thought that would be on par with the NAD in terms of sound characteristics. Even so, I demo'd them on an even playing field (that room) with some other popular lines. I demo'd them vs the PSB Images and Klipsch Reference. I went into it fully expecting to walk out with the PSB's, from all I read, and the MA's were kinda a "throw in" because I was prepared to like the Klipsch as well. I walked out with the MA's, no contest because of their "natural" sound. I did not note any of the high end issues that you did. The PSB mid's made voices sound nasally to me, and the Klipsch was just unbearable after awhile. All I am saying is maybe room characteristics and/or the receiver had alot to do with what you heard. We all have different ears, too. Wouldn't it be nice if we could get all brands in the same room and compare? You and I have spoken by email before.........awhile back I was gonna come by and listen to your Ascends and bring my old HK 2 channel over. We kept missing eachother and I got sidetracked on other things in life. I thought long and hard on the Ascends, because I knew I would like them. I even exchanged lengthy emails with the owner (can't remember his name, it is on my work email). In the end, I decided I liked what I heard with the MA's and I like to by small and local (the Dem in me!), for about the same price. Maybe we can get together and A/B my B4's and your 340's. Regardless, I think I would definitely spend $400 on a pair of 340's before I would buy any of the others asked about in this thread, at a minimum 3x less the price! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2322 Registered: Mar-05 | Ah, so you're THAT Chris! I thought there was some bell faintly ringing in the back of my head...lol Yeah, I'd love to do an AB of your B4s. I was wondering about room accoustics at AVS too but once you see my room you'll understand why I didn't take it too seriously because my own room is an accoustic nightmare that jumps out at you, whereas the AVS room just looks like a typical normal rectangular room. Don't think it was the same model as yours though, Aaron said these were $1500/pair and the B4s seem to be more like $600/pair according to froogle.com |
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New member Username: ChrisePost Number: 6 Registered: Jan-05 | Right, MA has 3 levels; Bronze, Silver, and Gold. The Silvers he is discussing (S10) are discontinued, that is probably why he is getting such a good price. There is a new Silver line out now. The bronze are entry level and I paid $499/pair for the B4's, they retailed $600 like you said. Some of the vents in the top of the room at AVS noticably vibrated. Maybe that is what you heard on the upper end of the Silvers....who knows. Do you have 170's on the back? I work downtown, I know you live in the Heights. Maybe I can bring my B1 surrounds to AB your 170's one day after work or something; it is a pain lugging towers around. |
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Bronze Member Username: Look4sunPost Number: 71 Registered: Sep-04 | OK. I admit that I don't demo the Paradigm Studio 100 and MA Silver S10 in same local store with same equipment (receiver, cable, sub, room). But I did hearing on boths speakers before I post this issue. As I said, I know the Studio have the potential sound with neutral midrange and a good bass extension, but my store drive it with the DENON 3805 which later I heard the sound rather dull and bass was diminished. . Yes, the Silver S10 already discontinued. But their build quality and sound are more top of class compare to the new version SILVER RS. For this reason, I bought recently the Silver S2 over th Silver RS2. The Silver S2 could fulfill my room without lack of power and bass. Whereas the Silver RS1 sound light and is okay with soundstage dimension. (And of course, the Silver S2 still Made in England, the Silver RS2 not - probably assembled in Malaysia). . However I would reconsider again, the Studio 100s are superior speaker but if I buy it I would think twice again to buy a good amp/receiver which over my budget. The Silver S10 thought sound good with bass (but treeble seem higher), they could be match on decent amp/receiver. . Oh yes, last week, my local store offer me again the Monitor Audio Gold Reference 20 with USD300 different with MA Silver 10 (USD1500 vs USD1180). . Nice advise from you guys. Thanks !! |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 561 Registered: May-05 | I just heard the Studio 60s and Studio 100s, although the 100s with much higher end separates than the Denon or HK. I've read the reviews on the MA Silvers, and I know it is one of the few speakers you'll ever see Jan recommend. I would guess that the Silvers are a little more neutral and the Studio 100s just a little more warm and forward. SO, it depends on which sound you prefer. I thought the Studio 100s were simply fantastic. But, your ears, your call. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2342 Registered: Mar-05 | David, I'm curious how you liked the Studio 60s and any other smaller Studios compared to your Ascend 170s. Mainly, did you think the Studios are really worth the extra dough? |
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Bronze Member Username: Look4sunPost Number: 72 Registered: Sep-04 | Dakulis, What is the receiver series do u use to drive the Studio 60 / Studio 100 v3 ? And did this receiver powerful enough ? Tks sun |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 563 Registered: May-05 | Ed and L4S, I didn't listen to anything smaller than the Studio 60s. I listened to the 60s and 100s. Ed, I haven't looked at pricing on the 60s so I can't say if they're worth it. They had a much different sound in the system I heard. They are definitely warmer, better imaging and soundstage, and they were being driven by much better, higher powered separates than my Denon 3803. (L4S, they were being driven by a 2 channel Anthem amp and the previous version Anthem pre/pro at about 100 wpc. The Denon has the same watts rating but not the same watts in reality.) Moreover, as I explained in my thread on receivers, I've never set the Ascends up for 2 channel listening on stands, toed in at 4-8 feet apart and used them for this purpose, yet. Even when I A/Bed them against the Lings, I put everything in my wife's "lovely" HT set-up, which means they're about 6 inches off the floor, sitting in a cabinet, toed in and not in the best listening position for stereo, obviously. When I bought the Ascends, they were purchased to improve my HT, which they have most certainly done. What I didn't expect was that they improved my music listening enough that it was actually "enjoyable" and "engaging" to listen to CDs again. BUT, they were not giving that "warm," wonderful sound I remembered with my old Luxman tube amp and Altec Lansing Stonehenge IIs that I remembered from 20 years ago. So, that started me on the road to considering how to further improve my 2 channel and 2.1 channel listening. (Ed, you're right that to do them fairly, you've got to listen to the Ascends with a subwoofer and I typically do so I can pick up the bass.) |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 564 Registered: May-05 | L4S, This is old but it may be helpful for your reading pleasure since it involves 2 similar "little brothers" to you interested speakers. http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/faceoff2.php |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2365 Registered: Mar-05 | David, yeah as much as I love the Ascends about 70% of the time there is that 30% of my music collection when I'm willing to sacrifice detail for warmth and that's why I'm still looking at the Lings for my bedroom system. But having the 170s SIX INCHES off the floor, yikes!!! Those poor poor babies, I should report you to the Humane Society, LOL! If I were you I'd at least buy some door stops from Home Depot so at least you can angle them upwards towards your listening position... |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 566 Registered: May-05 | Ed, I agree, the 170s are being mistreated. However, you'd have to report the wife to the Humane Society, probably more appropriately the Audio Humane Society. Her call not mine, although I've kicked around reconfiguring her HT piece because there is a shelf at about 36" but it doesn't have the mesh, sound pass through, it has glass. Why these idiot designers didn't anticipate speaker placement, I have no idea. But, I've got an idea that came to me this weekend while rereading Jan's review on the Lings. I'm going to use two ball bearings of different sizes and try pointing the 170s upward towards my listening position. Then, if that doesn't work, I'll try the same thing with wood blocks of two different sizes. One or the other of these should improve the sound, imaging and sound stage, at least, somewhat. If not, there's always the old woodworking skills to see what her lovely HT center looks like when i'm done with it. LOL |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2367 Registered: Mar-05 | woodworking skills...that's where I'd try first. Proper speaker positioning can be like 50% of how your speakers sound, that's why I always tell people to budget for decent speaker stands. |