My old system was a low end Yamaha with 40 Watts a channel. It stopped working last year so I finally purchased a new one.
I'm not a connoisseur of audio systems, and don't plan on becoming one. I have come to the conclusion, that I'm the one spending the cash so whatever sounds good to me should be fine, even if it is crap from an audio experts opinion. However, I understand it is probable I will develop a taste or ability to recognize quality sound and find I wasted money on crap. So my I'm interested in "good" speakers with a price in my budget, with the type of sound I like. I have no interest or cash to search beyond good speakers or my budget. So I ask you, the audio experts, what do you think of my choice, and what if any other suggestions would you think I should consider?
So far I have purchased the following:
Denon 985S (7.1 with 100 Watts per channel) CERWIN-VEGA CLSC-15S 15 Power Subwoofer
Use:
75% of the time for Home Theater 25% of the time for music (Pink Floyd for example) 40' by 25' room size
What sound do I like:
My old speakers (Optimus Gx-1600, 150-200 Watt, for 200.00 a pair) are probably considered crap and not in the category of "good" speakers. However I do like the deep bass sound they give. It's like when they are up, no other sound can infiltrate the room. Now when I listen to a friends system with a Denon 985 with Klipsch 5.1 speakers, I hear sounds and clarity I don't get on mine. Issue is, if I had to choose one over the other I would probably take the old crap I have (sad but true). Lucky for me I don't have to choose one or the other and would really to get both the clarity and crispness that I hear on Polk, JBL, and Klipsch (these I've tested in stroes with Denon receivers) but with the type of bass of my old speakers.
I have $1,200.00 and need:
(2) Front towers (2) Rears (2) Surrounds (1) Center
So far, considering what sound I like (apparently bass, and loud at that) with decent quality clarity and crispness, I am considering the following speakers:
Do you think, based on all the information I've provided, I have made a decent choice, or is Cerwin Vega the wrong path for me, or how else can I get what I'm looking for, in my price range? Any suggestions?
As far as bass, obviously in HT applicatins you crossover at 80 or perhaps 60 if your receiever allows that adjustment, so the fronts extension to 55 is fine for all HT.
For 2 channel listening, set receiver to play through fronts only but allow bass frequencies to the sub. Not the best situation for music but not crap either!
there is no reason for you think that you HAVE to sacrifice clarity for bass extension...not today, when you can get an extremely good SVS or Hsu subwoofer for as little as $400. Until you get into the very expensive 4 ohm speakers with low sensitivity that usually require expensive amps to drive properly, you'll end up sacrificing midrange and treble quality for deeper bass if you try to do this without a quality sub.
There is however no reason for you to spend one penny more than you need to for the rears and surrounds, since these do maybe 10% of the work in most movies. The only time I would NOT go cheap on those side and rear speakers is if I were listening to a lot of SACD/DVD-A multi-channel music, otherwise it's really a waste of money.
The front 3 speakers, especially the center channel which does at least 50% of the work (dialogue), is where most of your speaker budget should go, closely followed by the subwoofer.
For clarity and value the Internet-direct Ascend Acoustics is extremely hard to beat. It sounds like you have a pretty big room so this is what I'd get:
Ascend 340 mains + Ascend 340 center, $856 shipped from ascendacoustics.com
Athena AS-B1s for surrounds, $200 for 2 pairs, audioadvisor.com
Then I would return the Denon receiver and the Cerwin Vega sub.
Instead, I'd get the all-digital Panasonic sa-xr55 from amazon.com for $230 shipped (see long thread in the "Receivers" section) or $250 at your local Circuit City. If maximum HT clarity is what you're after, this new all-digital technology will blow away any analog receiver, and for a fraction of the price!
For your bass I'd get either the Hsu STF-3, $652 shipped from hsuresearch.com or the SVS PB-12ISD from svssubwoofers.com for about the same price. The SVS goes a little lower but the Hsu will be better for music, it's your choice. Or if you truly are a bass freak, get two subwoofers: a pair of Hsu STF-2s will run about $860 shipped.
Cerwin Vegas are basically party speakers, where you just want volume volume volume rather than anything resembling actual sound quality. That's why they're very popular in frat houses.
I would not compromise on the rears. Keep them timbre matched with the fronts and center, it will make a difference. It depends on how big your home or room is what sub you need. My Hsu VTF2 shakes the house (a small house).
Guess that depends on usage and budget...it's rare when I watch a movie like "Blackhawk Down" (which I did last night) that really uses those rears much. My normally crappy Polk R20s did great machine gun fire and RPG firings with the Panny though... : )
Thanks so much for the advice. One problem I have is I can't send back the receiver, its been over 30 days. I can send back the sub, and have 20 more days to do that.
Question: If the Panasonic sa-xr55 is digital, I guess my Denon 985 is NOT. Since most of its use is for HT, does the Denon somehow become less effective than the Panasonic.
Woa. Eddie is sold on the panny BUT there is nothing wrong with your Denon. Denon has some weaknesses in power issues relative to other options but that isn't related to your needs or performance for you. I run my HT with a Denon BTW. Denon is excellent at 5.1 and 7.1 signal processing and that's really a key for HT. Also, the fact that you can actually hear the mix through all the channels is already a step up. What I am saying is that an audio engineer(s) mixes these soundtracks using DTS or DD or others into separate channels. Just having the stuff to hear all the channels is a step up so you are there. The stuff about timbre matching and a long variety of other issues is correct but heck--we all have to walk before we can run. You are doin fine!
Also, Denon receivers do bass managment pretty well as well. Finally, the denon is clearly digital. Eddie is commenting on new all-digital technology as opposed to digital to analog conversion and back. An all digital receiver may be great; it may be poor. It certainly can't play a record album though ( haha). Anyway, the whole digital receiver stuff will clarify itself in time but for HT I wouldn't throw the Denon baby out with the bathwater quite yet. It's fine. The sub is important though. I didn't address it becuase you didn't ask. That's cool. The sub issue comes WAY before any receiver changes for you in my opinion. Have fun!!!
If you can't send back the Denon it'll do fine esp. for HT, I was just thinking the Panny would save you several hundred bucks which you could spend on the speakers and sub. Definitely send back the sub, that's for sure.
ddeath6
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Slowly but surely the knowledge level is increasing. Thank you.
For my next question. What would you suggest for a sub, if my budget for one is $350.00 to $400.00. Also, is there a significant difference in the Cerwin sub I have opposed to a $400.00 sub I could buy? I would prefer not to pay a restocking fee and shipping cost to send it back if the difference is minimal compared to what I would purchase for $400.00. What do you think?
Yes there is a significant difference. Eddie is going to direct you to Hsu STF-2 or an SVS offering, of which there are several actually. You can do fine for 400 dollars.
His point also about not having to choose between clarity and bass is very important. You can have both. Also, restocking fees etc are usually, well sometimes, can be negotiated away. Think out of the box, so to speak and give it a whirl.
Granted it's not a very expensive sub, but it's a 64 lbs unit with a 15" driver in a sealed enclosure rated to 25 Hz (no dB provided). Maybe it's not so bad?
Having said that, I passed on a Velodyne VHT-15 to get my 12" Hsu STF-3 and I'm glad I did...
I wouldn't question the sheer quantity of bass that the CV sub can provide. However, the quality of bass is another story. But I don't see any harm in ddeath6 trying it out and seeing if it suites his tastes.
ok to be fair, I have not ever heard the Cerwin sub but if their speakers are any indication then I would expect it to play loud but sloppy. How much did it cost you anyways, with shipping?
ddeath6
Unregistered guest
Posted on
The sub cost just over $330.00. That includes shipping.
I will take a couple of weeks to decide, but I really like the reviews on the ascend speakers. I'm having an internal debate on returning the sub. I will make a decision Thursday.
On second thought, for a room of your size, and with your budget, the CV would probably do better than a lot of other subs. The only thing I can think of that might be more suitable is an entry level SVS, but that is 429.
Yep the Ascends are arguably the best-reviewed speakers I've ever come across, it's hard to find one negative review on them even at audioreview.com They do however require a good sub since they are designed to provide the best possible midrange and treble, no compromises there. You can also post on the Ascend forum to see if there's an Ascend owner in your area who'll let you come listen, that's what sold me though I would've chanced them anyways for the 30 day trial period.
Now for the subs, the Hsu STF-2 is $426 shipped vs. $330 shipped for your CV. Assuming a 15% restock fee that would mean that returning it for the Hsu would cost you an additional $145 or so. That's not too bad, especially considering that the Hsu beats out retail subs costing twice as much. The Hsu integrates extremely well with the Ascend speakers, in fact Ascend sells them on their website so if you get the speakers and sub from Ascend they might give you a break.
You can also call Hsu and ask for B-stock STF-2s, they're usually 20% off regular price so it'd be $320 plus shipping, total just under $350!
ddeath6
Unregistered guest
Posted on
Thank you everyone for your help.
With my Denon 985 I will keep the Cerwin Sub, and purchase the ascend speakers, (7) in total.