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Peter M Unregistered guest | I'm planning my first 7.1 home theater system (movies and music) and find the speaker options a little overwhelming. Any thoughts on a good reasonably priced bookshelf speaker for the front L, R and center? A light color finish is prefered. I'm almost decided on a Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver and an HSU VTF-3 or SV 20-39PCi sub. The speakers should each handle 120 Wpc. The room is medium sized, about 18 X 15 X 8. The speaker, center included, should have +/-3 dB to 50Hz or lower so I can set a sub cutoff at 60 Hz in the receiver - 80 Hz is to high for me. I will probably use the same speaker for all 7 channels. Wide dispersion is good. Of course, it has to sound great. At the moment I am leaning towards B&W DM 602 S3. But I'm not sure about the vinyl finish and the tight dispersion. What do you think? |
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riches1 Unregistered guest | PSB offers some nice light wood grain vinyl finishes on their speakers. Axiom offers numerous choices of wood finishes. Polk (what I have) come in a nice cherry veneer and a light maple? on some models. If you like the the B&W's though, go with them. B&W's are fine speakers. |
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riches1 Unregistered guest | PS -take a look at Energy C's, they have a nice light Beech finish and sound great! |
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Anonymous | B&W was the first that came to my mind. There are limited veneer choices at your price range and the light colored B&W vinyl does look pretty good. Acoustic energy AEGIS EVO 1 or AE300 are other possibilities. Also JMLab Chorus 707 S. |
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Peter M Unregistered guest | Thank you for the recommendations. The Energy C3 and C-C3 specs look great. I hadn't considered them before. I'll have to give them a listen. |
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Peter M Unregistered guest | The Acoustic Energy AE300 are nice. I haven't been able to locate reviews or prices yet. I'll look into these more. Thanks. |
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New member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-04 | A very good sounding, unproblematic speaker for the money is the Paradigm Focus. If you attach a speaker cable upgrade (I'm using Straight Wire Sextet/$100/8ft pr.) you'll find it's $400 (cables + speaker) well spent. Having owned KEF 104.2 and Thiels 2.3 I'm constantly amazed at what speaker value exists these days as I begin rebuilding and upgrading my stereo system. This recommendation exists under the proviso that you include some cable and interconnect upgrades when you audition Paradigms. I didn't care for the Paradigm sound AT ALL with cheap cables and I didn't like the sound AT ALL from the Paradigm TITAN which has received lots of praise elsewhere, but I liked the FOCUS well enought to snag a pair, then I'll upgrade to the Monitor 5 this summer. We have a dealer that allows trade-ups ONCE yearly if the equipment is returned in pristine condition. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 473 Registered: Dec-03 | Peter M: That is a very good budget for a bookshelf speaker. First, let me compliment you on the choice of the Hsu or SVS sub. Both brands make superb units, well worth more than what they charge (if you had to get them through a dealer). The Yamaha you are leaning toward is a very good unit, bit it can be a bit on the bright side, sound-wise, so you need to choose your speakers with some care. What your system needs is something smooth and detailed, but without sacrificing detail (in this regard, I think the B+W 602 comes up a bit short as it can get "honky" sounding with a congested midrange). I can think of about three really good choices for your needs. In no particular order, I would recommend the Paradigm Studio 20s, the PSB Stratus Minis, or the NHT M-5. I recently priced the Paradigms at my local dealer (who also sells Yamaha receivers) and the combination is a good one, especially at $800/pair. Paradigm speakers tend to be smooth and somewhat laid back sounding, so the combination with the Yamaha receiver is a good one. The PSB Stratus Mini has a very similar sound to the Paradigm, so I know it will work as well. As PSB is somewhat more flexible about pricing, you can find the Minis (which at 15" tall aren't all that "mini") for about $700/pair if you really look. Both are finished with an absolutely georgeous cherry finish (real wood!), but the PSB has much more red in it. The NHT is not as laid back sounding as the first two and is an entirely different speaker. It is a three way design (unike the two way design of the Paradigm and PSB), with dual woofers, and it is an acoustic suspension speaker, rather than vented. This makes placement near walls much easier. The NHT has a smooth, open sound, that makes you less aware that your are listening to a speaker. Additionally, it has a "Boundary Switch", for use when the speaker is installed in cabinets, entertainment centers, or near side walls that reflect sound. Engaging the boundary switch changes the frequency response so that it will remain smooth when placed in cabinets, etc., where another speaker might become edgy sounding from all of the sonic reflections. MSRP is $500 each, but I got a price from Kiefs (www.kiefs.com) for $325 each and I know of other dealers who sold them for $375 each. As this speaker is sold individually, you can get three of them for across the front. I have a friend who did this and he absolutely loves their sound. This speaker comes in a black "piano" type finish (my wife loves it). All of these speakers will get very close to your spec of 50hz low end requirement. Close enough that you shouldn't need to worry about it. While I like the B+W 602, I think each of these sound better. Check them out and let us know what you like best. Happy hunting! |
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Peter M Unregistered guest | The PSB Stratus Mini looks great , but they appear to only be offered in dark colors. I need light colors or the wife will not let me do the wall mounting. Paradigm Studio 20 looks like a very nice option. They have good dispersion, too. Their Studio CC-470 would make a good matching center channel. But I can't figure out why the Studio 20 with one 7" bass driver goes down to a 54 Hz while the CC-470 with two 7" drivers only goes down to 64 Hz. I see this in a lot of systems -- the L/R channels go lower that the center. How does this impact the sub crossover setting? I guess I may be wrongly assuming that receiver extracts low frequencies from all channels to send to the sub. If that were the case then I'd have to set the crossover above 64 Hz and the lower range of the 20's would be wasted. From what I'm seeing now it appears that in 5.1 program material the sub is a separate track - and the center, being mostly dialog, never needs any lower freq capability anyway. With 2 channel music, the receiver would just use the front L/R with the lows sent to the sub. This is all new to me so I know I have a lot to learn. I appreciate all comments and suggestions. Right now from reviewing the specs I am leaning towards the Energy C3 or the Paradigm Studio 20. Thanks for the input. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 481 Registered: Dec-03 | Peter: The center channel speakers almost always have a higher cut-off than do mains. As I understand it, the THX specs only call for the center speaker to go down to 80 Hz, so I wouldn''t let that bother you. It isn't likely to get full range, anyways. Again, don't get hung up on the specs as your ears will tell you which speaker sounds right to you. Each speaker has a different sonic charecter and 10 Hz, one way or another isn't going to outweigh the other factors of speaker performance to make one speaker better. Instead, listen to the speaker and determine how deep is the soundstage, how realistic are the musical performers, etc. I understand the issue of the no dark finish speakers, so neither the NHT or PSB would work for you. I will keep this thread in mind and if I can think of another speaker to suggest, I will. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 482 Registered: Dec-03 | Peter: NHT sells a special version of the M-5, called the L-5, which is meant to be affixed directly to the wall, and it comes in silver or white to match the walls. Here is a link to a good description of the speaker, along with a good picture. Abosolutely great sound, too: http://www.nhthifi.com/2004/products/product_detail.asp?ProductLineID=2&ProductI D=85 Check it out. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 102 Registered: Feb-04 | Does anyone have first-hand experience with the Epos EL-3? It has gotten rave reviews from Stereophile and other publications. Best of all it's only $300 /pair. Please post your impressions if you've listened to these speakers. Thanks. |
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AdamVerducci Unregistered guest | I am considering the Epos myself. Would it be wise to use bookshelves like that in a home theater, which will undoubtedly be playing at high volume? I am worried about extending them past their capabilities. Could one, realistically, buy 5 of those Epos's and a Velodyne and call it a day? I wonder how they stack up with other budget favorites like the PSB's and the NHT's Hawk keeps pimping... |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 105 Registered: Feb-04 | Adam, There should be no problem playing the Epos at high volumes, given the following: 1. The home theater room isn't cavernous. 2. The receiver can deliver sufficient power to the speakers without clipping. If the Epos sounds great, I see no reason why buying 5 plus a good sub wouldn't result in a great surround speaker system. It'd be good to add another speaker to the list of usual suspects, i.e., PSB, Paradigm, and NHT. |
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Peter M Unregistered guest | Thanks for all the good ideas so far. I'm trying to find some reviews on the NHT L5 wall hanging speakers. They look like they'd work nicely. I might even do in-wall for the surrounds but I haven't found one that anyone claims will sound as good as a decent bookshelf. The Epos looks like it might be a bit small for me. I'd want at least a 6" driver and 120W handling. I appreciate what you say about the specs, Hawk, but my ears are shot from too much time behind a studio mixing console. I don't fully trust them anymore at the high end. The speakers are going to have to sound good for family and friends, too. Specs, especially the graphs, are real nice at helping predict how the speakers will sound. That also saves me the time going out to do auditions. |
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Peter M Unregistered guest | I listened to the B&W 602 S3, 705 and 704. I also heard the Energy C3. I was stunned by the differences in sound. I expected the differences to be too subtle for my tired ears. I'm not saying any of these were bad - it could have been the listening room, the match with the receiver (Denon), etc. And I don't trust listening to speakers in a showroom full of other speakers just sitting there - they each act as tuned traps that suck out various frequencies from the working speakers. But I thought the Energy C3 were not clear in the lower mid range. The BW603 were OK, but too strong on the high end. The BW 705 and 704 were both very nice, with a clear and enjoyable high end. I plan on checking out the Paradigm Studio 20 and 40 next. |
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Peter M Unregistered guest | correction: the BW603 were OK, but NOT too strong on the high end |
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Bronze Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 21 Registered: Apr-04 | In my notes of auditioning the BW 703 & 704 I noted the 703 had a clean pleasing overall sonic balance, but the vocals were a tad undertimed and dull, and were underperformers and expensive for $3300. I noted the 704's had very small drivers for $2200 and became strained at higher outputs, with very weak bass for that price point. You'll find the Pardigms a much better buy for half the price and you'll have money for upgraded cables and interconnects. But I gave high praise for the BW800 series I auditionined, for fun mostly, as the 5k - 9K prices are just too high |
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Peter M Unregistered guest | What are your opinions on using professional studio monitors like Event, Mackie, Hafler or Genelec, etc? I hope to demo some of the new ones soon. I have been using JBL professionals in various studios for years and thought they were great. I think there are a lot of good speakers that could be used in the home but are marketed to musicians. They may not look quite as nice but they sound great (the stuff you listen to is mixed on them) and cost a lot less (musicians have no money). see these for some reviews: http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_event_electronics_asp/index.htm (the PSP8 is the passive version) http://emusician.com/ar/emusic_truth_audio_tap/index.htm |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 512 Registered: Dec-03 | Peter M: I will throw a wrench into your speaker listening quest by suggesting the Dynaudio Audience 52s. I have their little brother, the 42s, and I love them. They also come in a variety of finishes, including a stunning maple and a solid white. However, they are somewhat forward sounding, so they do not work particularly well with a Yamaha receiver, which is a bit on the bright side. This is the reason that I had not suggested it first. So, if you are not wedded to the Yamaha receiver, you might consider the Dynaudios as an excellent candidate. Just a thought . . . |
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Unregistered guest | Peter, you've been given some very good speakers to audition. I'd also add the Green Mountain Audio Europa's priced at an incredible $880.00/pair. These are cast marble cabinets, best possible drivers, most seemless x-over I personally have heard, will play LOUD (105db) and are phase/time aligned. They are totally coherent and destroy many speakers costing 10x the price. Many people consider them the worlds finest monitor. Do a search at www.audiogon.com to see what other audiophiles are saying about these jems. The companies web site is www.greenmountainaudio.com/ Good listening |