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New member Username: JeremiahPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-05 | Here's my story. I've got a low wattage (25 watts) late 70's marantz reciever (2225). I have a 80's technics turntable (sl-d2) with a shure 44-7 loud output dj cartrage on it. I have a pretty new cheapo hitachi dvd player which i use to listen to cds. I had a pair of paradigm titans (about 8 years old) and I blew the woofer on one (with a different reciever). Then I was borrowing some huge cathedrial speakers but the guy took them back so I'm currently reduced to mono with one titan and it ain't cutting it. I liked the paradigms alright, they sounded especially good listening to jazz, but I didn't like them enough to get them repaired (at least not yet). My two drawbacks with them were that I listen to a lot of records and the paradigms really seemed to amplify the surface noise and pops on records. And that I would like something with slightly louder bass (baring in mind the low wattage amp). There are three stores that sell speakers where I live. One small store (where i got the paradigms-they don't have any other speakers in my price range), a best buy, and a circuit city (where I worked for 6 years, so I could probably swing some sort of deal) I would like to spend about 300 dollars for a pair of speakers with 400 being my absolute limit. There is nowhere in town with speakers set up to audition with vinyl (or low wattage recievers) so I'm looking for advice from cyberspace. The types of music I listen to mostly is motown, james brown, a lot of rap, can, early pink floyd, fairport convention, johnny cash. Also to be noted is that I live in an apartment and would also like to upgrade my turntable someday. I am considering going to best buy to listen to athena bookshelf speakers but I don't know what kind of critical assesment I can make in that environment. Any suggestions of things I should considear online or whether I should just save some money and get my other titan fixed. Thanks for any advice you may have. Oh and one last thing I don't have a car so buying and returning things could be a hassle. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2064 Registered: Mar-05 | Actually what I'd do if I were you is get the other Titan fixed and spend the savings on a dedicated CD player. On that budget you won't get anything that'll be hugely better than the Titans especially if strong bass is so important to you. Best bang for your buck would be the Marantz 4300, refurb $142 shipped from accessories4less.com with 1 year Marantz warranty. Next best MAY be (I say "may" because I haven't heard it yet, only heard people rave about it) the Onix xcd-88 which goes for $300 from av123.com, $250 b-stock. Otherwise if you want a speaker that just delivers strong bass but hides a lot of the poor recording quality from LPs, the JBLs might be a good option. Go listen to them at Best Buy, pick one you like and fits your budget, then order them online where they'll be a lot cheaper. B&H Photo I think has some good deals on them. Athenas are great, but they might be revealing of scratchy LPs though. Audioadvisor.com is a good place to order them from. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 405 Registered: Jul-05 | If you are in the New England or Northern California areas, you might also look into the Cambridge Soundworks Model Six. They have a fairly laid back sound, courtesy of a fairly large (but effective) tweeter, that will be more forgiving of vinyl. They also sport an 8" woofer that can put out fairly deep bass for a bookshelf speaker. They retail for 150 but you can typically get them B-stock for less. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 241 Registered: Apr-04 | Best Buy no longer carries the Athena Audition line, just their theater stuff. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2102 Registered: Mar-05 | oops, forgot about that. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 560 Registered: May-05 | Jeremiah - The power figure from that receiver is meaningless. My father has an old 2220B rated at 25 watts, and it'll run circles around mass market 100 watt receivers. The best advice I can give you about speakers is to try to get 8 ohm impedence and high sensitivity. Your receiver should be able to drive low impedence and low sensitivity speakers without any problems, but keep in mind that it is a 20-30 something year old receiver. A lower demanding speaker should be better over the long haul if you plan on keeping it around for a while. For the turntable upgrade someday, look into lower level Pro-Ject and Music Hall. They are well built, sound very good, and are cheap -relatively speaking anyway. Actually, I think the Music Hall 2.1 is the same table as the the Pro-Ject Debut III. Pro-Ject makes them and the Pro-Ject version is cheaper. They come with different cartridges. Pro-Ject uses an Ortofon and Music Hall uses a Goldring. I'm not 100% sure if they are the same table, but I remember hearing or reading it somewhere. |
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New member Username: JeremiahPost Number: 2 Registered: Sep-05 | I was considearing Music Hall already but I'll have to check out the Pro-Jects. I'm moving one step at a time though. Thanks for the advice so far ya' all. If anyone has heard about any other entry level speakers that sound good with vinyl let me know. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1706 Registered: Feb-05 | Pro-Ject makes a better more reliable table for the money. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1008 Registered: Jun-05 | Arts right I think so to,felt the Pro Ject Debut 3 was much superior to the Music Hall 2.1 and on par with the MMF-5,just a tad less warmth and dynamics,so I sprung for the MMF-7.You should be fine with Debut 3,good luck and deffenitely fix those or look into the Studio 20 if you can if you go the turntable route your gonna want the most resolution and detail you can get for the dollar. |
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Rusin Unregistered guest | Pioneer HPM 100's will sound fantastic on your vintage Marantz gear. Stay under $250.00 for a clean pair on ebay and make sure you don't get gouged on shipping - they weigh in at over 60 pounds each. There is nothing new you can buy at this price that will sound so good on your 70's equpment. Believe it or not, there was once a time when Pioneer made audiophile quality speakers. http://search.ebay.com/pioneer-hpm-100_W0QQcatrefZC5QQfclZ3QQfromZR7QQfrppZ50QQf sooZ1QQfsopZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsacatZQ2d1QQsofocusZbs |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5815 Registered: May-04 | Rusin - I'm not sure what time period you are referring to. Pioneer made raw drivers during the early days of its existence as a company and those drivers, of course, found their way into other companies products. I am unaware of Pioneer ever manufacturing any speaker systems aimed at the audiophile market. Even the Japanese audiophile market which often prefers designs most Westerners never see. Do you have any reference links to the Pioneer speakers you are referring to? BTW, I would say " Pioneer HPM-100's will sound fantastic" is a matter of personal preference and not hard fact. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1716 Registered: Feb-05 | I used to own Pioneer HPM 40's back in the 70's with an HK receiver and Toshiba turntable. It was fun gear. Audiophile quality probably not but certainly above the mass market stuff of the era. You had to go to a boutique to buy it. |
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Rusin Unregistered guest | I am not aware of any links but am aware that the engineer designed the HPM 100's to compete with the JBL L 100's (see note from Audio Heritage Administrator below). One could call the sound "punchy", but they are clear, detailed, and have a decent bass response. They're very effieient and would do fine with the poster's vintage Marantz. For folks with very limited budgets, good used speakers ought to be a strong consideration. Recently, somebody scooped up a pair of HPM 100's on ebay for under $100. Of course, it's all a matter of personal preference. Bart Locanthi was responsible for engineering at JBL for two decades. He started as a consultant in 1950 to fill the engineering void that resulted from Jim Lansing's death. He later joined the company full time as Vice President of Engineering in 1960. Unfortunately, there was a falling out with the new management of JBL when Bill Thomas sold the company. Locanthi left the firm in 1970 to first join Altec, and then Gauss, before ending up at Pioneer in the mid 70's. At Pioneer, Bart was responsible for the HPM series of loudspeakers. This is why the first speaker in that series, the HPM100, bore a striking resemblence to the L100. Pioneer considered it quite a coup to gain Bart's services since JBL was the single most revered loudspeaker brand in Japan. Pioneer gave Bart virtually unlimited resources to build the highest performing loudspeaker components possible for the first TAD product line. I have been told anecdotes of his being treated like royalty when visiting Pioneer's Japanese headquarters during the development process. At meetings, Pioneer's management would hang on every word and transcribe his comments as absolute orders to be followed to the letter. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5817 Registered: May-04 | I'm assuming the last two paragraphs are the "note from Audio Heritage Administrator". I'm familiar with the design background of the HPM100's. Though the story never explained the HPM200, HPM60 or HPM40. Neither did it explain the HPM tweeter. And the similarities between the Pioneer HPM100 and the JBL L-100 speakers were intentionally somewhat obscure and really came down to the two speakers were both ported enclosures designed before Thiele-Small parameters became popular and they were 12", three way speakers with a white woofer. Beyond that there was no similarlity in sound nor quality with the JBL being the much better design and product. I remember the JBL to be several dB more efficient (I believe the HPM100 was only a 88db @ 1 watt rating) and able to handle substantially more power. I wouldn't personally consider either speaker to be aimed at the "audiophile" market, but that will vary with each person's opinion. I normally recommend used equipment as a way to get better than average performance for less money. However, I usually draw the line at speakers since it will almost always be impossible to audition any used speakers before you make the purchase. Buying speakers with no idea of their sound beyond "they could be described as 'punchy'", is a better than average opportunity to waste some money, in my opinion. Additionally, most especially if high volume levels are a consideration, I would hestitate to buy a speaker without a warranty (particularly running with a 25 watt amplifier) and certainly not a speaker with parts that are scarce. One blown tweeter and there goes the investment. There is no substitute for a HPM tweeter. You buy another HPM tweeter, if you can find it, or you have no speakers. It's not my money and I'm not the person listening to the speakers so the person asking for advise can file both suggestions wherever they feel appropriate. |
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Silver Member Username: AudioholicPost Number: 163 Registered: Apr-05 | Tawaun, did you go low compliance or high compliance on the cartridge to match that arm? What is the resonance frequency of the arm, cartridge combo? What did you set the VTA at? Did you set the anti skating with headphones or by the spec sheet? What cartridge would you suggest for my LP-12 with a type 4 arm? How bout my Micro Seiki 3 tone arm unit? Strain Gauge? Moving coil? moving magnet? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5835 Registered: May-04 | P.B. - It's time to back off. |
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mojo86 Unregistered guest | My Infinitys 360s sound sweet for the money. You can get the 250 towers $299@ crutchfield, 93 and 92 db respectively. Go to CC and listen to them, then order them from crutchfield for less and free shipping.... |
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300B4me Unregistered guest | Have the "original" Large Advents fallen off the planet? I am so surprized that they were not a very strong first choice for the Marantz.I have to agree with Rusin as for the 100s for another option. My opinion would have to be the Advents.The same woofer you'll find in the old Advent has been used in $2000 speaker systems. Now the secret to why they would be such a good match.Both Henry Kloss & Jon Dalquist used equitment manufactured by Marantz a reference. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 421 Registered: Mar-04 | if you're getting irked by surface noise with paradigms, you might be happier with more forgiving softdomes. metal domes are great because they're ruthlessly revealing, but they reveal flaws too. i'm getting tired of my NHT superzeros because they're a little too polite in the treble, but they're very detailed and neutral in the midrange. i bought my last pair for $188 on closeout. you could probably pick a pair up for peanuts if you found anyone willing to sell them. superzeros are awesome bargains. they image like crazy and embarass speakers 5 times their price in that department. (that's what tiny speakers do) i'll be switching to planars eventually for MORE ruthlessness. LOL i'd say look for soft domes which will tame noise somewhat. (a line contact stylus will reduce noise too, and of course cleaning your records helps too) here's some homework for you... these brands offer good bang for the buck... read some reviews to find what sounds best in your budget. value speaker brands: (canadian) axiom paradigm psb energy mirage .......................................... aperion NHT epos wharfdale infinity polk boston acoustics cambridge sound works magnepan ascend definative technology pinnacle specific models & reviews: Axiom Audio Millennia M40Ti $275 floorstander http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/axiom_millenniam40ti.htm Paradigm Esprit v.3 $400 floor stander RAVE http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/paradigm_esprit_v3.htm Pinnacle Classic Gold Reference $900 list wins a shootout vs. B&W, Monitor Audio & Paradigm http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/faceoff2.php Wharfdale Diamond 9.6 $800 tower gets a rave http://www.theabsolutesound.com/newsletter/153/wharfedale.html Stereophile magazine really liked the $320 Epos ELS-3 minimonitors and rated them "class-c" over speakers 3 times their price. |
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New member Username: JeremiahPost Number: 3 Registered: Sep-05 | Thanks for the advice all. I decided just to get the speaker fixed (for one I can sell them if need be) and get on with getting a new turntable. I'm definatly going to keep my eye out for some advents in my area (I guess that they were pretty big sellers back in the day) as I'm kind of scared to get speakers off ebay . I was hoping there would be some sort of concensus but I guess that doesn't really happen on message boards. Thanks though for opening my eyes to the world of options to explore. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 625 Registered: May-05 | Everyone's opinion on what is good is completely different in everything. How many people agree on what the best tasting beer is? Best looking woman? Best car? |
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Bronze Member Username: LoceLilburn, GA Post Number: 19 Registered: Jul-05 | I would second Stu's observation (I prefer India pale ales, for instance). I'm very happy with a pair of JBL 120Ti speakers that I found in nearly mint condition for less than $200. Until I heard them, I was on a quest to get new speakers, but I like the way these sound with my old Sansui integrated amp. |