Entry level speakers
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New member Username: CursiveChicago, IL USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Sep-05 | So I'm finally beginning to build my system and in doing about a week's worth of research I've found that maybe a pair of JBL E-90's aren't all they're cracked up to be? I'm looking to spend around $350-450, and would prefer a set of floor standing speakers. The sound doesn't need to occupy a very large area, but I wouldn't mind if it did. I don't expect that any speakers in this price range would sound like gold, but this seems to be a knowledgeable forum so I thought I'd see if any of you could steer me in the right direction. This would be for probably 95% music and 5% movies. Most of the time, they would be playing hard/classic rock, but every once in a while lighter things as well. Any suggestions? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2030 Registered: Mar-05 | For hard/classic rock the JBLs might actually be just fine. For other musical genres they're known to be very bright with weak mids and boom bass. Go listen to them in a shop with your own favorite CDs, I think Best Buy should carry these. However most hard/classic rock recordings are of very low quality so they tend to sound like crap on really good speakers that have a more neutral and balanced character. Just make sure that your receiver has enough juice to run the e90s properly, the bigger the speaker the more quality power it'll need to sound its best. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 404 Registered: Jul-05 | There is nothing horribly wrong with JBL speakers to speak of. If you have listened to them and really like them, I would say go for it. If you find you don't like them, a couple other companies to look into would be Athena and Infinity. |
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Gold Member Username: DmwileyPost Number: 1110 Registered: Feb-05 | I agree with Edster's general assessment. But you should really audition them yourself. |
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New member Username: CursiveChicago, IL USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Sep-05 | Thank you all for your insight. There are a few places around town that have them, so I'll go check them out myself. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 552 Registered: May-05 | Adam - You haven't mentioned what other equipment you own - receiver/amp, cd player, etc, and what speakers you presently have. Also, what about future upgrades? Will this be it for a very long time, or will you be looking to spend more money in the near future? If you have a lower end receiver and source, then your budget and choice of speaker may be right on. If you have a higher end receiver or components, then you may want to spend a few more bucks for a better pair that will help you get the most out of your current gear. If you're looking to upgrade within the next couple of months or even in a year, then you may want to look into a good pair of bookshelves and add a powered sub down the road. Generally speaking, $350-$450 bookshelf speakers will sound better than $350-$450 towers. Their weak point will be bass, which can be fixed by a subwoofer if/when you upgrade. Also, look at what the local higher-end stores have. While you may not be able to afford what they have, they will give you an idea as to what to look for in a speaker. A lot of local stores also have a 'bargain basement' area. They may have discontinued models, demos, trade ins, and so on. These can make your money stretch a lot further. |
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Bronze Member Username: BritthoFrisco, TX USA Post Number: 92 Registered: May-05 | http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006IS2V0 These are on sale at Amazon. Mission speakers are to me a great starter setup and for nearly half off while supplies last would be a nice music speaker since 95% is music. 92db is the sensitivity rating so they should OK with even a modest receiver. I personally have a friend with Mission floorstanders driven by a Denon stereo. Considering the entire set up ran him about $1200.00 it sounds really nice. IMO a great way to go for $449.00! Good luck! Britt |
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mojo86 Unregistered guest | I'm not an expert by any means, but I do love music, and Rush 2112 sounds incredible on my Infinty 360s. Check out the reviews on C-Net |
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Bronze Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 39 Registered: Jul-05 | Hi Eddie. I must respectfully disagree with the statement that most hard rock recordings are of low quality. I've got record albums from classic artists that sure sound better than a bunch of other genre CDs. Also, my Evanescence CD, more recent, was well produced and was one of four demo discs I used to audition about 20 brands of speakers around Houston in 2003-2004. And my Dream Theater CDs are VERY well produced. Check em out next week when you are over. Hope you survived our weather OK. BTW- My Ascends did arrive! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2206 Registered: Mar-05 | Fair enough, since your CD collection is probably several times the size of mine I'll take your word for it! : ) Yeah, Rita turned out be quite anti-climactic! Post your thoughts on the Ascends, I'd love to hear how they sound on your reference system too. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 42 Registered: Jul-05 | Yes. I can switch them out easily to the reference system. Right now they are on audio system number three and are being used mainly for spinning vinyl with my Pio 516 and an Onkyo 8211 Receiever. But its an easy easy switch out. Good Idea! |
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New member Username: CursiveChicago, IL USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Sep-05 | Stu Pitt I own an old (70's) Pioneer SX-303 Stereo Receiver and a newer but fairly cheap Sony CDP-XE270S cd player. I often run my computer into the receiver as well from the sound card. It's not a killer system by any means. As far as upgrades, this will probably be it for probably a while. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 597 Registered: May-05 | With what you have and your plans for it down the road, I'd agree with the what everyone else here has said, and would like to add Jamo to the list. They make some towers in your price range, and sound very good. I wouldn't say they are 'better' ot 'worse' than any of the other brands mentioned, just different. I prefer them to most brands mentioned, but that's just me. Their should be a Jamo dealer somewhere in the Chicago area. They make speakers that are dirt cheap, and speakers that cost more than a new car. I can't say I've ever heard a Jamo that didn't sound very good for the price. |
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Bronze Member Username: Hallen1007Charlotte, North Carolina USA Post Number: 26 Registered: Jul-05 | You also may want to check out some speakers made by Aura. I cannot find them in my area anymore, but the sound is very nice and so is the price.They will fit into your budget nicely, or even look for some Boston Accoustics in that price range as well. demo the speakers you like, then do an internet search for them. Just make sure you buy from a reputable dealer. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 383 Registered: Mar-04 | value speaker brands: canadian ......................................... axiom paradigm psb energy mirage .......................................... aperion NHT epos wharfdale infinity polk boston acoustics cambridge sound works magnepan ascend definative technology pinnacle specific models & reviews: Axiom Audio Millennia M40Ti $275 floorstander http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/axiom_millenniam40ti.htm Paradigm Esprit v.3 $400 floor stander RAVE http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/paradigm_esprit_v3.htm Pinnacle Classic Gold Reference $900 list wins a shootout vs. B&W, Monitor Audio & Paradigm http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/faceoff2.php Wharfdale Diamond 9.6 $800 tower gets a rave http://www.theabsolutesound.com/newsletter/153/wharfedale.html Stereophile magazine really liked the $320 Epos ELS-3 minimonitors and rated them "class-c" over speakers 3 times their price. the best "bang for the buck" speakers are probably Magnepan MMGs ($550 factory direct w/ 60 day return policy) which are capable of embarassing speakers 10 times their price. they're just fussy about amplification at 4 ohms. now that panasonic is selling 100wpc class-d recievers (SA-XR series) it's possible to get a maggie friendly amp for $300 or less. check the MMG review out here: http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/magnepan_mmg.htm check ecoustics "editorial review" feature out at the top of the page. it's really handy and the place where i found all of the review links in this reply. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 599 Registered: May-05 | Budget - His price range is 350-450. A lot of the speakers you list are out of his budget. Many of them won't be driven properly by his 70's Pioneer receiver that he doesn't plan on replacing. The Axiom and Paradigm are very good suggestions. |
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Bronze Member Username: BritthoFrisco, TX USA Post Number: 99 Registered: May-05 | The 70's were the glory days for Pioneer and their receivers. If it is in good working order the 45WPC of the SX303 should be enough to power an efficient speaker which many excellent choices have been offered so far. Upgrade your source from the Sony for your next move and unless there is something wrong with the Pioneer it probably sounds fine by even today's standards. The power that some of the Pioneer's produced back then were really impressive. I grew up with a Pioneer SX650 in my house and I can say that it had a wonderful sound quality and had plenty of headroom (power reserve). It only had 35 watts RMS. A vintage Pioneer is not at all a bad place to start as a budget system. Check out what some of them go for on Ebay as the vintage models from the 70's can still fetch a good price. So Adam take you time and enjoy the selection process for your new speakers. Let us know which ones you go with down the road.  |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 388 Registered: Mar-04 | i just copied and pasted the list from a wordpad document i'm keeping for when these topics come up. yes... some of the reviews are for speakers out of the poster's price range, but those same companies also offer lower cost speakers too. the "too expensive" reviews still serve as a decent "bang for the buck" milestone. pinnacle and wharfdale have ALSO gotten huge raves for $200 or less speakers in the past too. heck... everyone was flat out nuts for the original diamonds which sold for something like $120 i think. the post isn't so much an exact answer to the question as it is a "research homework index" i would have mentioned maggie MMG-W speakers at $300 a pair which have ALOT of favorable reviews, but they're only single driver units rated to 18K in the treble. regular MMGs are worth the budget stretch. personally... i prefer my $200 (discontinued) NHT superzeros over $1,000 B&W and Paradigm ported *vomit* monitors as the zeros are so much faster and detailed in the upper bass-midrange and run circles around their larger $$$ competitors in imaging even if they don't have the bass extension or metal dome speed and extension. the ONLY sub $1,000 speakers that i know of that i'd give my zeros up for are MMGs. zeros absolutely need to be subbed though. those little puppies kick hiney. they are so punchy over 100Hz it isn't even funny. paradigm and B&W have evil ported boom in comparison. YUCK! |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2577 Registered: Jan-05 | i prefer my $200 (discontinued) NHT superzeros over $1,000 B&W and Paradigm ported *vomit* monitors ----------------------- LOL If you could afford the B&W's and had the means of buying them, you'd be singing another tune. I guess you should put the bong down long enough to find a better job. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 556 Registered: Apr-04 | Paul...............what would you know about speakers????????????? |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 559 Registered: Apr-04 | I would like more info on those Magnepan speakers. I definately have the amplifiers for them only I would no longer be able to use the bridge mode since they are 4 ohms. I find them soooo cheap (in price) and if I would couple them to my Hsu, would I be in for a big change? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1799 Registered: Feb-05 | Maggies are a slippery slope. I went down that slope and have since recovered. They are very seductive because they give you the impression that you are in the room with the Musicians. I loved mine until I went to a Cassandra Wilson concert. I had great seats at the Shedd in Eugene Oregon. I heard her miked and unmiked (after the show). The next day I went to my local Maggie dealer because I was thinking of upgrading my MG12's to the 1.6's. So I auditioned them with some Cassandra Wilson Cd's (as well as other tunes). I compared the Maggies to Vandersteen 2Ce's. At first I like the Maggies better because they had more alive sound then I realized that that Cassandra didn't sound anything like Cassandra on the the Maggies, but I recognized her right away on the Vandy's. That was the beginning of the end of my Maggie phase. There is much more to the story but my lunch at work is over. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2588 Registered: Jan-05 | C'mon... Everyone knows that you should only audition speakers with your favorite movie DVDs |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 561 Registered: Apr-04 | Art. I was considering looking at the MG12 in Montreal next month when I go for business. They seem to have a very large following from all the internet stir and mega reviews! I am interested in at least a listen. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1805 Registered: Feb-05 | Thay are quite seductive Danman. I think that they are the best buy of the Maggies. Unfortunately they don't sound good on a wide variety of music nor do they sound accurate when compared to many other brands. They do, however, give the illusion of accuracy by projecting that "there in the room" presence that few other speakers can manage. The 3.6 with the true ribbon tweeter is where the Maggies start to reach for a higher level of tonal accuracy. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 563 Registered: Apr-04 | I realise I will have to use my sub for these speakers I would imagine and would believe that this combo would beat any box speaker around at this price! I listen to everything from classical to heavy metal so I would hope to be surprised once I hear them. I would really need to audition first for sure. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1045 Registered: Jun-05 | I wouldnt go that far Danman the 3.6s are good,but they are not the best at that price,like Art said they have very seductive qualities.$4000 is a serious part of the market where if you are interrested in speakers heres a few in that price sector that I feel are better than the 3.6s,Dali Helicon 400 $4000,Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand$4000,Sonus Faber Domous Grand Piano $4000,Spendor S8e $3000,Anthony Galio Nucleus Reference 3 $2599+900 subwoofer Amp,and my favorite the Odyssey Loralei $2700 used to be $7600 in Europe a couple years back in the Symphony line made in Germany.There are lots of speakers at that price the Maggies present to many compramises at that price for me,but if you can live with those compramises you are deffinately a Maggie fan. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 564 Registered: Apr-04 | I was considering a listen of the MG12 not the 3.6! I am more curious than anythng at this point. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1808 Registered: Feb-05 | Point #2. Not any sub will do with Maggies. They are the most diffiucult speaker to match for a sub that I know of. They require a fast sub with a relatively small driver. When I called magnepan they suggested a sub with a driver no larger than 10 inches and with a high powered amp. The most popular subs for Maggies are the REL's and the Vandersteen. The ownwer of Bradford's (the Magnepan, Vandersteen, B&W, Paradigm, etc dealer in Eugene, Or) owns the sub that I have (Era Sub 10) for his 3.6's. Expect to spend at least 1k on a sub that will do justice to Maggies speed. Magnepan also suggests using an amp that doubles it's power into 4 ohms. Good luck. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 566 Registered: Apr-04 | Therefore my VTF2 mk2 should do fine!!!?? Also my 2 NAD C272's would also do well! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1822 Registered: Feb-05 | Possibly, but probably not. I own the Hsu as my second sub and I don't think that it would keep up with Maggies. It wouldn't be as bad as many others (Paradigm etc.). Yuor power amps should be adequate to the task. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 569 Registered: Apr-04 | WOW! I did not realise these speakers were so hard to drive! From the massive amount of reviews and information concerning this brand I figured they were the best thing since sliced bread! I am looking forward to an audition. Anyone have Canadian prices for the MG12? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1827 Registered: Feb-05 | Call Magnepan. They are great about answering questions. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1828 Registered: Feb-05 | BTW most folks agree that there isn't a worse speaker on the market for heavy metal or hard rock. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 609 Registered: May-05 | Art - Are they that bad with a good sub, or just without? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1050 Registered: Jun-05 | Stu its very difficult for them to mate to sub because of thier blazing speed,once you get to the 3.6s they go down to the low 30s on their own with some impressive slam unlike the Maggies from a decade ago,their bass has really improved as of late. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 611 Registered: May-05 | I meant are they that bad with rock/metal without a good sub, or do they handle that music poorly no matter what you do? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5908 Registered: May-04 | I would nominate the Quad ESL57 as the "worst" speaker for hard rock and loud volumes. They could actually go up in smoke! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1052 Registered: Jun-05 | Me to the Maggies have actually improved in this regard immensly,the Quad not to mention the protection circuitry that wont let the speaker play past 95 dbs without it shuting down,I guess that was better than like Jan said them going up in smoke.The 988 and 989 the new versions of the Quad have the protection circuitry.Jan did the 57 and 63 have the protection cicuitry? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5912 Registered: May-04 | The 63 did, the 57 did not - unfortunately. Though not many amplifiers appreciated the dead short across the output terminals which the later speakers offer as "protection". On the other hand, the smell of burnt mylar and capacitors seemed to linger for a long time with the 57's. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 408 Registered: Mar-04 | no way i'd EVER own a B&W speaker EVER! ported speakers are evil. i hate ported speakers. always have and always will. i never heard REAL hi-fi (despite visiting all 3 of my town's stereo stores when we still had 3) until i visited a friend who asked me what i thought of his $120 infinity minimonitors. i'll never forget the goosebumps i got hearing the talking heads "remain in light" on a B&O turntable imaging like NONE of the tower speakers i had ever heard could with bass speed and detail that kicked their butt 10X over. it wasn't as deep, but it was much much much clearer. THAT is when i became an small acoustic suspension minimonotor freak. even with my sub's sealed enclosure, 12" is just too slow. it's deep, but not detailed. i WANTED an 8" sub, but couldn't get an enclosure and had to settle. i'll put my $200 superzeros/$200 sub up against $1000 B&W 2 ways any day of the week. my system will image so much better and have much tighter bass-lower midrange. the ONLY area where B&W betters my onkyo system even with $1000 amps and $700 marantz CD players is in treble detail and extension. that's it! i've heard the $1000 blonde and grey B&Ws and walked away happier with my zeros. sorry... my cheap system kicks those B&Ws hiney and $1,000 maggies stomp $20,000 barfer and woofin 801s in every way except image specificity, deep (bloated) bass and treble extension. for top to bottom speed and coherency... maggies walk all over B&W. magnepan MG12s have bass many times faster and detailed than those overpriced boxes. i don't believe the B&W hype. ported woofers sound just like the resonant distortion they are. acoustic suspension is faster and way less colored, but planar tops them all. bowers pretty well describes the sound their heavy kevlar woofers make in their miniature echo chambers. nope... you'd never be able to give me a pair B&Ws... i'd sell them right away. it has nothing to do with budget. it has to do with the fact that i despise ported (the larger the worse) woofers with every fiber of my being. aside from planars... only an 8" or smaller sealed woofer can produce bass with any kind of speed and detail. i've never heard an isobarik (compound) woofer array to be fair but even if i did... i'm sure an 8" would still kick 12" butt. slow and resonant sucks. "duhhh... it sound big... duhhhh... me like" LOL |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5931 Registered: May-04 | Planar woofers. Now there's an oxymoron. "i've never heard an isobarik (compound) woofer array to be fair but even if i did... i'm sure an 8" would still kick 12" butt." You might want to listen to what you are so willing to bet against before you lay your money down. It is not the size that matters. And the means will be justifed by the end. Yes, I know, you detest ported woofers with ever fibre of your being. |
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Rantz Unregistered guest | B M I don't what you listened to those blonde and grey B&W's with, but I don't think it was your ears. By your words I am pleased I don't have your system, but if you enjoy - that's what counts. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1832 Registered: Feb-05 | "Are they that bad with a good sub, or just without?" They are not bad with or without a sub. I would not play much but chamber music or singer/songwriter (folk) music without a sub. That's not a knock on those music styles but the Maggies can't handle much more without a good (expensive), fast sub. One of the best cd's around to hear the limitations of the Maggies is Sarah Maclachlan's "Surfacing" disc. There are parts of that cd you don't even know are there thanks to the Maggies lack of low end. They simply aren't a versatile or accurate sounding speaker. Fun they are, and I would own 3.6's in a heartbeat, if I could get a $20,000 loan to do them justice with the proper electronics. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5942 Registered: May-04 | http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/TechPapers/WooferSpeed.pdf |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1058 Registered: Jun-05 | Budget you really need to go listen to the $20,000 800 signiture series with a clear mind the Maggie MG 12 cant come close to those speakers you must be smokin something for you to keep posting those absurd remarks everytime someone comes on here for some speaker advice.Stop misleading the newbies and trust me their are plenty of speakers under $1000 that will stomp a mudhole and walk it dry with your Superzeros and the Maggie MMG. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 419 Registered: Mar-04 | B&Ws sound sluggush. there's no way that you can say that B&Ws have the speed of maggies... no way. i've ALWAYS been a speed freak. to my ears.. the best cone woofer is a 4 1/2" unit. until i'd heard a $120 pair of infinity two ways, i'd NEVER heard 100Hz with any degree of speed. i have no use for infrasonics. i keep my sub turned down so low, that it's barely audible. i already OWN a nice 12" sealed sub that would be fine if i ever wanted to throw a party, but the total speed and detail in MG12 bass was exactly what MY EARS crave. these are MY OPINIONS and if you don't like them, get over yourself! i know what i like... speed and detail. that's why i've never wavered from 4 1/2" acoustic suspension 2 ways until i heard even faster and more detailed planars. anything that goes away from speed and detail sucks as far as i'm concerned. B&W sucks to my ears. i've NEVER liked them back to the original 801s with octagon shaped midrange cabinets (ca. 1988) to the current models. when i FIRST heard them... it was with the preconception that they were "the best speakers in the world" and as soon as i heard them didn't like them one bit. the treble was terrible. (new treble is awesome) i couldn't believe ANYONE thought they were great. the new one's aren't offensive sounding, but they aren't detailed at all around 100Hz. at 100Hz, i'll bet you $10 that my zeros have a much steeper waterfall plot. that's what my ears tell me. smaller cones with smaller airsprings move faster. that's a fact... that's physics. i heard a little bit of that "wuh wuh wuh" sound that i don't like. i DO admire modern B&W treble SPEED AND DETAIL, but my zeros can go toe to toe with them in the imaging department. if my zeros had B&W tweeters, i wouldn't have went out looking for an upgrade. i'm not trying to mislead anyone. i'm only telling what my ears hear and what they like. B&Ws don't give me goosebumps on vocals or drums... maggies do. *thwak* not *waghhhhh* that's a FACT! by the way... i listened to the B&Ws BEFORE the MG12s. about 5 minutes after that, i sat in front of the MG12s and couldn't believe how much faster and unboxlike they were. i was actually biased AGAINST planars and didn't want to listen to them after hearing a large pair of flat panels that had a "tinfoil resonance" many years before. (ca. 1985) i'm being totally honest with my comments. the MG12s walked all over the B&Ws because they have speed and detail that B&W can't match. i don't like sloppy ported bass... never have and never will. the B&Ws had better imaging and treble extension, but MG12s are FASTER if slightly more polite in the treble. you like whatever you like... and i'll like what i like... lightning fast bass with some last octave rolloff. i'd love to see a maggie 50Hz waterfall vs. bower boom boxes. screw extension. i have no use for it. until i had amp problems, i was liking my 5 1/4" M71s as "subs" (read woofers) much more than my 12"... they're so much faster and punchier and mate to my zeros better. i only like to hear bass... not feel it. i am TOTALLY biased towards speed and detail. have i mislead anyone about that? |
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Rantz Unregistered guest | Not knocking your opinion B.M. just your terrible ears {grin). Yep, we are all different and I have not heard maggies - nor do I wish to for I hate regretting my purchases - though I do love my 602's and 600. Sublime! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1062 Registered: Jun-05 | So what really gives you the impression that Maggies have so much detail,their are a lot of speakers that have more detail,and the B&Ws are one of them are they my favorite speaker no.Detail is one of their strong suits,go take a listen to the new JM Lab Profile series,if you like speed they are the one pistoinic transducer that can match the Maggies speed with tons more detail and more extention at the top and the bottom.And they are ported and have the tightest fastest Bass I've heard,and yes that includes your beloved Maggies.Another speaker thats ported the Kharma 3.2 monitors extremely fast and way way more detail.I think you are getting confused about the Maggies strengths and as far as them among the most detailed speakers going thats a joke,they are good in that aspect but by no meens the best.Ive heard the NHT superseros and the better model the super 2s the store that I used to listen to them at carried the Paradigm Studio Refference series and they used to mug the NHTs all day long,and your comparing to speakers up under $1000 where a lot of good monitors are,that I know would have you eating those words.Where do live at budget I got a challenge for you and your Superzeros,we are talking about speed and soundstaging right?Alright then superzero meet your worse nightmare meet Mr. Epiphony the king in the $1000 and under sounstaging sweepstakes,lets see if the zero can be a hero! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1063 Registered: Jun-05 | So what really gives you the impression that Maggies have so much detail,their are a lot of speakers that have more detail,and the B&Ws are one of them are they my favorite speaker no.Detail is one of their strong suits,go take a listen to the new JM Lab Profile series,if you like speed they are the one pistoinic transducer that can match the Maggies speed with tons more detail and more extention at the top and the bottom.And they are ported and have the tightest fastest Bass I've heard,and yes that includes your beloved Maggies.Another speaker thats ported the Kharma 3.2 monitors extremely fast and way way more detail.I think you are getting confused about the Maggies strengths and as far as them among the most detailed speakers going thats a joke,they are good in that aspect but by no meens the best.Ive heard the NHT superseros and the better model the super 2s the store that I used to listen to them at carried the Paradigm Studio Refference series and they used to mug the NHTs all day long,and your comparing to speakers up under $1000 where a lot of good monitors are,that I know would have you eating those words.Where do live at budget I got a challenge for you and your Superzeros,we are talking about speed and soundstaging right?Alright then superzero meet your worse nightmare meet Mr. Epiphony the king in the $1000 and under sounstaging sweepstakes,lets see if the zero can be a hero! |
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Silver Member Username: AudioholicPost Number: 175 Registered: Apr-05 | Jan, kinda like listening to children fight, no? Planer woofers......I believe thats a keeper quote, don't you? Who said that? Thats right up there with screen doors on submarines. "Sounstaging sweepstakes" is another good one. Is this something we send away to enter? Battle Creek, Michigan, perhaps? No purchase necessary......find an entry form on specially marked packages of Cap'n Crunch. Of all the audio forums out there, this one ranks first in entertainment value. |
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Polk Al Unregistered guest | you may want to seriously consider Polk Audio speakers. they make 4 levels of speaker models. The R series is their entry level model, followd by the Monitor's, RTI, and the top of the line LSI. Polk Audio gives you great sound for their price. Your short list should include Polk Audio for sure. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2414 Registered: Mar-05 | R and Monitor series are awful for anything else than surrounds. RTis are ok, LSis are excellent, both lines though are not great bang for the buck by any means. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1077 Registered: Jun-05 | That Bayless you are absolutely correct on,and we all contribute to it everyday of the week,thats why its Ecoustics and no other forum is like it,we have as many unique characters as the original Transformers!! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 137 Registered: Dec-04 | The Magggies are the worst speakers ever made for Van Halen, Sammy, or even rush, although la villa stragniato sounded ok. Driven by banks of tube amps, mostly macs. They are for Star Wars music, ok though ( the album) |
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Orchard Road Studio Unregistered guest | Hi Adam, As a recording engineer and an audiophile for over 30 years I feel I have a duty to help you out. Providing your pioneer is OK no dirty volume knob causing shorts. Pick up a better CD player and some nice audioquest Diamondback .5m cables and the heavyest new speaker wire those push terminals will accept. As far as the speakers are concerned forget the floor standers worry first about the quality of the drive units. Buy small speakers and suppliment them with a sub when you get the cash. Only buy speakers from a company who makes their own drivers. Example the cheapest Dynaudio's, I think audience 40"s have a great tweeter and mid with surprising bass for their size. An accurate speaker is meant for any type of music. Speakers such as Vegas have a big flabby woofer and no quality what so ever. I don't frequent this page so good luck, listen well and keep the audiophile tradition alive. Death to MP3 |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 435 Registered: Mar-04 | i had ALREADY heard a full range of "full range" speakers from bose, JBL, klipsh *vomit*, polk, pioneer, allison and (nice) boston acoustics (acoustic suspension hmmmm) plus 3-4 other brands that i can't recall some 20 years later that had framed my idea of what "good sound" was before i FINALLY really heard it in a friends $120 pair of infinity minimonitors. that was the first time i heard what MY EARS consider real bass. (lightning fast and resonant free) i'll trade rolloff for speed and snap every time. to my ears, those little infinities totally embarased speakers many times their price up to disgusting sounding (harsh horn treble) and priced $4000 klipsch la scalas. no, the infinities couldn't compare with the volume levels of the klipsches or the bass EXTENSION of any of the full range speakers, but they totally spanked the crap out of ANY speaker regardless of price that i had to compare them to for speed, detail and neutrality. the first time a stereo EVER turned me on was $120 infinities with 3/4" styrofoam tweeters. once i knew that SPEED = REALITY, that became my goal. it's no coincidence that my current system is what? 4 1/2" two way NHT superzeros. if i were a bird, little infinity references would be the sound that i imprinted on. i've never heard an acoustic suspension woofer sound offensive EVER, but i've heard more ported one note distortion beyond disgusting boxes than i can count easily. without SEEING the system, i can guarantee you that my idiot basshead neighbor's one note 40Hz "wuh wuh wuh" system is ported, and most likely 12" but possibly 15 evil sluggish resonant inches. small, fast and air sprung is the only way to move a heavy cone to my ears. featherweight "pure voice coil" planars are even better. B&W is great for box speakers (my zeros are TOTALLY faster and punchier all the way to bass rolloff though) but they sound like boxes. planars pop so much faster it isn't even funny. drumheads REALLY sound like drumheads with no blurring, lag or overhang. ANYTHING that slows transients down or adds latent resonances is the enemy of high fi to MY EARS. if there were no such thing as planars, i'd DIY 4 1/2" monitors with whatever the best tweeter available is. i also used to lust after infinity 5 1/4" $1,000 wedge shaped monitors with emit tweeters back in the early 90s. i'm SURE JMlab and wilson make great speakers (i lusted after watt puppies before i gave flat panels a 2nd try) but they aren't in my town or budget. planars give my ears even MORE speed than they ever thought possible. anything that doesn't provide more speed or detail is a step backwards for me. others have different priorities: bass EXTENSION dynamics midrange freedom from grain imaging (a FORMER top priority) and so on. those are all irrelevant TO ME now. i think the word i'm looking for is "jump-factor" if i understand it right. foreward speed, backward speed and nothing in between or after. i bet a nickel that i'd LOVE plasma tweeters. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1079 Registered: Jun-05 | Well the Labs certainly have the jump factor you crave without the panels drawbacks with deeper bass.Go take a listen to the new Pprofiles you wll love them,thell be right up your alley,dont get so caught in the sealed box verses the ported box speakers,because their are some very talented and fast ported designs.Ported designs have been perfected,some speakers are so clean and fast in the bass,the only way you can tell its a ported design is power and extension that you hear and feel. |
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naam Unregistered guest | Save your money. You'll be supprised how easy and quick it can be when your heart and mind are in unision. You can get a $5,000 overdraft on your bank accont with little intrest, if that great deal comes your way. That's what I did to score my Galo Ref.3 for $2000 Cnd.. Great speaker to grow with, they will let you know about everthing within your system. You'll have much more fun with your mucic starting with a truly great set of speakers. Friends are much more likely to bring over a pre-amp or amplifer to check out rather than speakers. |
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