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New member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 2 Registered: Sep-05 | My system is mainly for HT, but I do want the sub to sound good for music to, so what is a good sub for both? I currently have a Polk Audio PSW303, but I don't think it's a big enough driver for movies, so I am wanting to go with a 10" driver. Here are some of the subs I was thinking about: HSU STF-2 or VTF-2 Velodyne DLS-37050R or DPS-10 Polk Audio PSW404 I'm not really sure what the difference would be between the HSU's and Velodyne's would be, can someone give me some honest opinions about these and others to consider? Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1914 Registered: Mar-05 | Those Hsus should eat the Velo and (especially) the Polk for lunch. The Velodynes suffer from severe local retail markup. To equal the performance of a $400 (Internet-direct) Hsu you'd have to pay at least double that for a Velodyne. I've had the STF-2 and liked it a lot, it did quite well even in my cavernous (6000 cubic feet) space and awkward positioning. Contact Hsu and ask for B-stock STF-2s, these are generally 20% off regular price. If you have a really big room you could also look into the STF-3 or the Outlaw LFM-1, both were designed by Dr. Hsu. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2385 Registered: Jan-05 | What's your buget?? Why settle for a little 10"?? I'd suggest stepping up in class and buying a SVS which will eat the HSU subs for breakfast. You can never have too much sub as it relates to reproducing those rediculous lows found in many of todays movie soundtracks. If you do, your movie watching experiences will be changed forever. If you had a bad muther like this, you'll never return to theaters because their sound will seem weak and empty by comparison.... https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-theater/136710.jpg |
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New member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 4 Registered: Sep-05 | I'm looking to spend $500 or less. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 369 Registered: Jul-05 | How big is your room out of curiousity? If it isnt too large my suggestion would be this puppy. It has the ability to EQ itself to some degree , customizing its response to your room. Otherwise I would stick with the HSU models you posted. http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=6.1 Ohh and I just noticed they're selling the maple finish for 399 currently. |
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New member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 6 Registered: Sep-05 | My room size is 23' long, 12' 7" wide in the front then there is a fireplace in the middle of the room on one side which sticks out 2', and the back of the room is about 10' 6". Hope this helps. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1918 Registered: Mar-05 | TDog, Paul is referring to his $1200 SVS, which is in a whole different category. For $500 I'd look at the Hsu VTF-2MK2, STF-2, or the SVS PB-10. The 12" subs from Hsu and SVS start at $600. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1919 Registered: Mar-05 | Also I've heard of some people on other forums being very happy with a PAIR of the Dayton 12" subs from partsexpress.com which cost a little over $300 combined...for sheer SPL these should be ok for HT, though for music they are probably not quite as quick and clean as the Hsu would be. |
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New member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 7 Registered: Sep-05 | It sounds like HSU would probably be the best sub for what I am looking for. Although HT is what I mainly use mine for. And for $400 I think the HSU will do much better than my $210 Polk Audio. My plan is to run both of them, do you think that would be good thing or not? |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 375 Registered: Jul-05 | Sounds kind of like my downstairs plan... I dont think you could go too far wrong with either the HSU or the Rocket really. The HSU might be a better bet for your size room though. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 376 Registered: Jul-05 | While stereo subs have some advantages, I wouldn't really use the Polk sub. The volume gain you get (probably not even 3dB at lower frequencies) wouldn't be worth the degraded sound quality. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1920 Registered: Mar-05 | There are conflicting opinions on the pros and cons of running two subs especially if they are different makes and models. I'd give Hsu a call directly and ask, they are very helpful on the phone. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2387 Registered: Jan-05 | If his budget is $500, I would recommend this sub. http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb12_isd.htm You should save your pennies just a little bit longer until you can afford something like this(at a bare minimum). Regardless of room size, because a better sub will sound better in any room. You'll always have it so why skimp?? |
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New member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 8 Registered: Sep-05 | Paul, Are you SVS biased? How is SVS better than HSU? My wife would probably would give me a hard time if I were to spend $600 on a sub, that is why I am looking to spend really $300-$400. So she wont be so bothered. She does not care for bass anyways, so the more I spend on something that creates bass is not what she will like. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 378 Registered: Jul-05 | Paul recently discovered the benefits of a subwoofer, and is a bit overzealous in recommending his brand of subwoofer to others. SVS makes a fine sub, and their bottom sub is $429, which you might consider. Conversely though, one of our forum members, Art Kyle, did audition one of their subs and wasn't particularly impressed. |
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Gold Member Username: IlluminatorUSA Post Number: 1599 Registered: Apr-05 | He didn't own one? Just...'auditioned'? |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 381 Registered: Jul-05 | He bought it and returned it. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2392 Registered: Jan-05 | My feelings are that if you arent willing to do something right, you might as well not do it at all. Maybe it would be best if bow down to your wife and do away with surround sound alltogether. You dont want to upset the Boss, right??? Also trade in the bigscreen for something much smaller and less obtrusive so you wont visually offend her and her precious nicknacks. Once men finally understand that a womans house is HER castle, they'll be much better off. Men who think they have a right to a few simple pleasures like quality surround sound and a bigscreen TV in their own home are nuts. Where in the marriage rulebook does it say a man has any rights whatsoever?? They're only greedy and thinking about their own needs. The truth is that a man has no say about inhome furnishings or content, and the sooner they learn that the better. Sincerely, WAF Owned Hubby |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2393 Registered: Jan-05 | Yep, Im SVS biased. The pic I posted the other day was of my SVS PB12-plus/2.... https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-theater/136710.jpg The $1350 I paid for it was a steal considering what it's capable of doing. You'll always have the sub, so there is no reason to skimp. A better sub will outperform the inferior sub in any sized room so why sell yourself short? |
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New member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 9 Registered: Sep-05 | Paul, Are you married? You have know idea what you are talking about. I don't bow down to my wife, I am considerate of my wife's feelings. We talk about things and we negotiate on things we disagree with. I'm more interested in having a good, healthy relationship with my wife than having everything I want and having it my way. Isn't marriage supposed to be about sacrifice and giving and vice versa? But thanks for your input on your love for SVS subs. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 383 Registered: Jul-05 | TDog: Out of curiousity, do you live in a townhouse? |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2394 Registered: Jan-05 | TDog, I just had my 14th anniversary. I married a reasonable woman who wouldnt deny her loving hubby the simplist of pleasures in his own home. Any spouse who would, should be dumped immediately because she is a selfish b!tch and doesnt care about your needs. Any woman who would consider not allowing her husband the simple pleasure of enjoying HT and quality soundsystem is someone you'd be better off without because all she cares about is herself. After all, you own half the house too. Why do you think you're worthy of only 0% input regarding the contents of YOUR home?? I figure the WAF guys are either one of two kinds of people. 1.They are unable to communicate their needs to their spouse. 2.Their spouse knows the hubbies needs, but she has no desire to fill or satisfy her partners needs. |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 11 Registered: Sep-05 | no, a two-story house. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 384 Registered: Jul-05 | Just one flaw with the logic here. A subwoofer of that size and expense doesn't qualify as a need, and in some cases, even a want. I know I wouldn't want that big old eyesore in my house. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2395 Registered: Jan-05 | Yea, but the point is that you'd buy whatever fits YOUR needs. My wife has absolutely no input into my HT because she knows that I get a lot of enjoyment from it. What wife wouldnt want her loving spouse be happy?? Any wife who does otherwise doesnt love her husband or care about his happiness or needs. Heck, I let her buy whatever makes her happy, so shouldnt that happiness be a two way street???? |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 385 Registered: Jul-05 | Not everyone has that kind of cash Paul. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2396 Registered: Jan-05 | Im talking about WAF'ers. Their issues issues have nothing to do with finances. Nobody should buy what they cant afford, and WAF is an entirely different topic. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 529 Registered: May-05 | "Nobody should buy what they cant afford" Then why not accept the fact that TDog can't afford your sub? He said he can't go over $500. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2397 Registered: Jan-05 | Exactly.... and my suggestion was that he save his pennies a little longer until he can afford something a little nicer because once he does, he'll always have that nicer sub. If he has $500 now, it shouldnt be too tough to save a little longer so that he can add a few hundred more to the kitty so that he can get something really nice. Once he has that nicer sub, he'll be glad he waited. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 386 Registered: Jul-05 | What makes you think he wouldn't be perfectly happy with a $500 subwoofer? |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2398 Registered: Jan-05 | It's all about getting the best possible sub, especially if he intends to watch movies. He may be 'content' with a $500 sub, but he'd be thrilled with something nicer. Because of the trend with todays increasingly demanding movie soundtracks, I dont think you could ever have too much. Especially in the low-moderate price ranges that we're discussing. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 387 Registered: Jul-05 | Then why stop at 600? or 1350? |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2399 Registered: Jan-05 | How long do you expect him to wait while saving those extra pennies?? C'mon devils...Lets inject some common sense here. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 388 Registered: Jul-05 | LOL thats the point... Why should he be told to save another 100? Whats the point? There's always going to be better. But at the 500 mark you can still get an excellent subwoofer that will rattle your insides. SVS wouldn't release the PB10-ISD if they didn't feel that way, would they? |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2401 Registered: Jan-05 | Im sure the PB12 is better, and would be worth waiting an extra month. Since he'll have it for many years of enjoyment, why not get the better one??? Afterall...he'll always have it. That's my point... |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 14 Registered: Sep-05 | From some of the reviews I have read and other peoples opinions here and elsewhere, I probably will go with the SVS PB10. Are you happy Paul? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1923 Registered: Mar-05 | TDog, before you pull the trigger on the PB10, check out the backs of this sub vs. the Hsu STF-2: http://store1.yimg.com/I/hsusubs_1858_1256401 http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb10_isd.htm You'll see that the SVS lacks high level inputs and does not have its own internal crossover, which means that if you ever wanted to run say a 2-channel separate amp into it that does not have its own crossover, you'd have to buy one of these if you were running some really small speakers and didn't want them to be handling all the low frequencies too: http://www.hsustore.com/high-pass.html This is what kept me from buying the PB10, personally, even though it does claim to go 5Hz lower than the STF-2. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 530 Registered: May-05 | Paul - I agree with what you're saying, and have followed that approach a number of times. I think everyone has at one point or another with a lot of things, not just audio. However, once I have more money, something else always comes up. I'll save a couple hundred bucks for the better CD player, then out of no where my car will break down. I'll save up again, then a spring in the mattress breaks. Sometimes, you just have to spend what you've got when you've got it, because something more important and unforseen will come up if you don't. |
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Bronze Member Username: PbdrPost Number: 53 Registered: Apr-05 | Paul, Not eveyone is going to feel that a gigantic earth shattering subwoofer is right for their set up. Case in point, I just bought a 10 inch sub that i am vry happy with. I wouldn't want a huge behemouth, I want to hear the music and other sounds besides bass. Not to mention some people wouldn't want to spend $1300.oo on a subwoofer regardless. Perhaps we should respect Trevor's original question and give him suggestions of subs in his price range. In that vein,I have a Wharfedale Powercude 10 I recently got for $250 (w/free shipping) and it can rattle the windows during lord of the rings and still sound clear for music. In my opinion, not a bad choice. One other bit, you might want to look at subs that offer a front control panel or a remote. They sub ends up in a corner, or behind something, alot and most subs seem to have the controls on the back (the wharfedale does), not the easiest to get at. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1656 Registered: Feb-05 | The PB12 ISD/V stinks, I know I owned it and now I'll be able to tell you how the Hsu VT2 MK2 compares as I just ordered it tonight. |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 17 Registered: Sep-05 | Edster, Is it impotant that I have an internal crossover on the amp? My receiver is a Yamaha RX-V757 and I have the crossover set at 80 already. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2403 Registered: Jan-05 | An external crossover switch on a subwoofer has no value today because every AV receiver handles that task. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1937 Registered: Mar-05 | TDog, that depends on your speakers. For example if you have floorstanders that can go as low as 30-40Hz then you'd want to have the ability to send an unfiltered signal to the sub and use the sub's internal filter which could go down to as low as 40Hz. Also some people prefer to use a 60Hz crossover with their bookshelves because some bookshelves can go down to 60 or even 50Hz. Also if it comes in handy if you ever upgrade or switch to a 2-channel integrated amp or separates that don't have an internal crossover. I guess I just found the STF-2 to be more versatile and flexible. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2409 Registered: Jan-05 | Eddie, As usual, you're making a stupid comment for the sake of disagreeing. Any decent receiver will have a crossover option down to 40hz, or you could simply set the speakers to large. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1942 Registered: Mar-05 | Paul, are you a complete retard, or just dyslexic? TDog clearly said that his Yammie has an 80Hz crossover. I don't see him saying he's going to replace it any time soon, do you? And most receivers go as low as 80Hz, a few do 60Hz but 40Hz is very rare. Now if you're taking this as yet another opportunity to congratulate yourself on your equipment (yawn), then just be up front about it. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2411 Registered: Jan-05 | He said his crossover was 'set' at 80hz. He said nothing about it's range. Just because NAD have few features or abilities, doesnt mean that is the norm as you suggest. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1943 Registered: Mar-05 | I looked up the rx-v757 and the Yammie website said it does go down to 40Hz so for once Paul you took another one of your wild guesses and were actually right for a change! *** TDog, all the same, if you ever do expand your system by adding separates that don't have a crossover, the Hsu would allow you to do that whereas with the SVS you have to stick to an AVR with a flexible crossover. For instance what many people do is add a separate 2-channel amp to power their mains for music listening, and run the signal for their mains through the receiver's preouts into the amp and through the sub and the main l/r speakers. If music is not a priority for you then this is a moot point. The SVS does claim to go down to 20Hz whereas the STF-2 only claims 25Hz though...this is a valid consideration if you watch a lot of action flicks and want to hear all of the low low rumbles, roars, etc. This would be its main selling point over the Hsu. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 986 Registered: Jun-05 | As much as I hate to say this Paul is right about the wife acceptance thing,but Paul other than what his wife wont allow didnt you listen to anything else he said?, see this is your problem in everything you say on this forum, you pick out one thing that you feel like you can elaborate on and Boom you go all out with it without listening to rest of case.TDog you are getting good advice just keep listening and you will come up with a solution. At this price point the SVS,HTF,and,Dayton subs are definately your best options although their are a few other choices to the Phase Tech servo subs are very good to and are very well priced look into D-Box subs a mailorder company to,I will see if i can dig up some links for you enjoy. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 669 Registered: Oct-04 | I think the PB-10 will be better for music than the PB-12. Also I have read several reveiws that lead me to believe SVS' cylinder subs are better for music than box subs. They start at $550 http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pci_25-31.htm |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2415 Registered: Jan-05 | Art doesnt like ported subs, and the svs are ported. Kano has no clue which would be better for music other than the fact the smaller PB10 has fewer ports, so he assumes based on that info that it's better for music. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1951 Registered: Mar-05 | yeah Paul and you don't even listen to music so your 2 cents is worth even less than 2 cents... |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2419 Registered: Jan-05 | I listen to music all the time..... Movies are loaded with music!! |
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Anonymous | what a jerk-off you are Paul! |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 20 Registered: Sep-05 | You guys are funny with all your arguing. Very enjoyable and nice to see all the imput you guys are giving me. I have a lot to consider in buying my next sub. Is it necessary to have a crossover on the sub since my Yamaha Reciever has one on it? I have narrowed my choices down to: HSU VTF-2 MK 2 SVS PB10 Maybe the HSU STF-2 |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1956 Registered: Mar-05 | If you can afford the VTF-2 that will be clearly better than the PB10 and the tuneability is a nice feature when going between music and HT. |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 21 Registered: Sep-05 | Should my reciever be set at 80Hz or lower? I'm not really sure about setting the crossover, what is really does for the speakers or reciever except I think it sends all bass 80hz and under to the sub, is that right? I have RTi6's for front and a CSi5 on the way, should I set these as small in the reciever or have them set to large in my reciever. I have R15's for back surround set as small. Eventually I will get the RXi3's for side surrounds. |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 22 Registered: Sep-05 | Thanks Edster, I will probably get that one. I have been leaning toward the HSU because you get more for the buck. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1957 Registered: Mar-05 | The RTi6s go down to 50Hz so I'd set your receiver's x-over at 60Hz tops, you can even play with a 40Hz setting to see how you like it. The bass coming out of the other speakers is negligible so just go by the front mains. For the RTi6s I would probably use "small" because it will allow them to focus on the mids and highs, they are not really designed for bass. You'll be plenty happy with the VTF-2 unless you are a total wall-shaking basshead with a big room. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2424 Registered: Jan-05 | Tdog, The VTF2 is a small underpowered sub with a cheap lightweight enclosure compared to SVS.(in spite of both having 10" drivers) That's not to mention the SVS also has a 50% more powerful amp. http://www.hsustore.com/stf2.html http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb10_isd.htm If you want the smallest and most underpowered sub with the cheapest enclosure for your dollar, you should get the HSU. If not, get the SVS. The VTF doesnt measure up. A quick peek at the specs will easily point that out. Eddie doesnt even own a HSU, so he doesnt know what he's talking about. His sub is a cheap $150 beginner model. While its true that I have never heard the PB10 in person, I can speak for SVS because I do own one of their other models. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 539 Registered: May-05 | Have you heard the HSU? |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 519 Registered: Apr-04 | Paul............I own the VTF Mk2 and I think it is pathetic that you even think of giving advice to anyone about anything hi-fi!!!!!!! You have owned one subwoofer in your life that is of decent quality and you now believe you are an authority! I have had the decency to have listened to your sub at one point and yes it was very good by no means is it so much better than the HSU or I would of bought it! I thought it was great for movies but overkill when it comes to music. You base your assumptions (no matter how stupid!) on specs!!!!!!!!!!!!!What is that??????? You know less about audio than I previously thought and are leaning towards total absurdity! It really dogs me that people like you only think that what they own is the best! get an education man!!!!!!! Get out of the basement......WHEW!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 24 Registered: Sep-05 | The reason I think I might go with the HSU VTF-2 MK2 is I might be able to get it for the price of the STF-2. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2425 Registered: Jan-05 | I never said the HSU was a bad sub. What I did say was that it doesnt measure up to the SVS. Not only is the enclosure of the SVS more substantial, but so is the power supply. Go ahead and compare several if you choose, and what you'll find that as sub quality rises.....so does the weight of the enclosure and power supply which is necessary to reproduce the demanding low frequency waves. Better subs have beefier, heavier enclosures, and more power..........thats a fact. Now if you step up in class once more, you'll find those subs have even more power, and often weight several hundred pounds. There are demanding physical requirements that need to be met to produce these soundwaves well, and lighter models with less power will NOT do the job as well because pure physics dictates results. People who think a small and less powerful sub can somehow break the laws of physics and perform better than a larger better built counterpart must have a screw loose. |
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Anonymous | TDog, if you want to amuse yourself, casually browse through all the threads on this forum, especially the "Receivers" and "Speakers" sections, that Paul has ever posted on. You'll quickly discover three things: 1. Paul is just a total moron. 2. Just about everyone else on this forum knows that Paul is a total moron. 3. Paul sticks around this forum mainly to get attention with his moronic remarks. Ever visited a REALLY small town? There's usually at least one person like Paul in these little villages. They've spent their whole lives in the middle of nowhere, they don't read anything except for maybe the TV Guide, they've never stepped foot outside of the county line, they watch the same kinds of programs and movies on TV every night, they have zero experience outside of their little garbage patch and zero intellectual curiousity for what lies beyond their little garbage patch...and yet they are 110% convinced that they know everything there is to know about everything. That's Paul in a nutshell. |
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Bronze Member Username: TdogroederPost Number: 26 Registered: Sep-05 | Will the HSU VTF-2 MK2 hit lower than my Polk Audio PSW303 but not as low as the SVS PB10? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1960 Registered: Mar-05 | TDog, that Paul is an endless laugh track all by himself isn't he! He's never gone anywhere near a Hsu besides their website, LOL. Anonymous here is particularly harsh on him but much of it is all too true I'm afraid. Anyways I had a Hsu STF-2 for about a week, it was loaned to me by a guy who was helping me audition some speakers. I was going to buy one myself but decided to hold off and get some car speakers instead. Lately I've found that when using my NAD separates or Panasonic xr55 I don't really need that much additional bass for my Ascend 340s, so the replacement sub will be on hold for another 6 months or so. My taste in movies runs more towards dramas, foreign, comedy, alternative/cult films so no real need for hellacious LFE. Anyways, like I said you'll be plenty happy with the VTF-2. It's basically an STF-2 except that you can tune the ports on the back to make it go down only to 30Hz but provide more SPL, which is better for music, 95% of which is above 30Hz anyways. I don't know what the number is for HT, but I think it's only like 10-15% is under 25 Hz, except for a handful of high-FX films like "The Incredibles" and "LOTR." |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1961 Registered: Mar-05 | Here's some brass tacks: Polk 303---8" woofer, 100w amp, 35Hz bottom end Hsu VTF-2---10" woofer, 250w, variable 25-32Hz. SVS PB10---10" woofer, 300w, 20Hz. 50 watts is a very insignificant power difference, the main thing you'll notice is the extra 5Hz the SVS has...again, only noticeable during really deep rumbling moments of a handful of action flicks. Another factor to keep in mind is that the SVS is front firing while the Hsu is downfiring...many people find downfiring designs are much easier to position in a room especially a bigger room. Lastly for whatever it's worth, Hsu generally has a reputation on these audio forums as being more musical and SVS being better for HT. So it comes back to your priorities. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1668 Registered: Feb-05 | "Art doesnt like ported subs, and the svs are ported" Ports are fine, port noise is not. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2432 Registered: Jan-05 | Eddie, All new movies with even the slightest bit of action have extremely demanding soundtracks. It's not the 'few' as you suggest, but rather the norm. Based on what you're telling me, it sounds like you're saying that with your small sub, you can only hear impressive LFE effects in a select few movies?? Woah...You're missing out!!! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1964 Registered: Mar-05 | Paul, how many times do I have to tell you: the movies I watch are mainly dramas, comedies, art/foreign/alternative flicks. Most action flicks to be predictable, brain dead bores so I just don't bother. It's like watching the same stupid storyline 1000 times only with 10000 different lousy actors phoning in 10000 different lousy scripts. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2436 Registered: Jan-05 | You may as well use the speakers inside your 20" Panny TV. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1967 Registered: Mar-05 | Nah, dialogue is much better through the Ascend 340 center. Oops I forgot, you probably think of "dialogue" as the dead spots in between explosions, gunshots and car chases. LOL |
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Anonymous | "Oops I forgot, you probably think of "dialogue" as the dead spots in between explosions, gunshots and car chases. LOL " Edster, Paul doesn't THINK. Don't you know that by now? |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 670 Registered: Oct-04 | "Kano has no clue which would be better for music other than the fact the smaller PB10 has fewer ports, so he assumes based on that info that it's better for music." I actually am auditioning a PB-10ISD right now. I have it in my system for the next short while. The difference between it and the Polk are in everything. To put it in as few words as possible. The Polk makes its presence (and inadequecies) known, while the SVS blends in and compliments the overall sound. Musically the SVS is miles ahead and hits all the notes while the Polk has trouble rolling between certain notes. Playing Kruder Dorfmeister "the K&D sessions Part 2" was an excellent selection that provided an excellent A-B between the 2 subs. The Polk sounded completely lifeless, almost 1 note bass through sections while the SVS brought much more life to the music. Notes could be more precise on entry but for the price of this sub it does extremely well. I stand behind what I say of a 10" driver being faster and more suited to music than a 12". Hearing the SVS makes me want to take my K&D sessions to hear the Velodyne SPL2 8" http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/product.aspx?ID=13&sid=832o778c |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 671 Registered: Oct-04 | The Polk's the PSW404, forgot to mention that. The PB-10ISD is way too much sub for my present room, I can't imagine what Paul's does to anything not nailed down. I was also expecting it to be a lot smaller, it's twice the size of the PSW404. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1669 Registered: Feb-05 | "I stand behind what I say of a 10" driver being faster and more suited to music than a 12"." Me too. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2437 Registered: Jan-05 | Kano, You secure whatever rattles...... The point is that once you calibrate your sub, it will blend into the movie soundtrack and will only play as loud as you ask it to. For example, you arent going to turn the darned thing so loud that it drowns out the rest of the soundtrack. When you comment that the PB10 creates so much bass that "I couldnt imagine having something bigger", you're missing the whole point. The bigger sub will do 'A LOT' more because of it's extended frequency range and greater capabilities. Not only will it hit more notes, but it will also hit the rest of the notes better and with less effort. You commented that your demo-SVS played notes in soundtracks that you never knew existed when played by the polk subwoofer. Sounds that were once not present,or muffled and faint, blossomed to life seemingly from nowhere. Im not talking about faint marginal subtleties because in many cases, the differences sound and feel glaringly obvious. Just imagine the new frontier of sounds when you step upto the Plus/2??? Not only will you hear more LFE, but it will play it more cleanly and with less effortl. Eddie commented earlier of the non-importance of LFE effects because only "a handful" of movies have LFE effects worth listening to. His only problem is that his current sub is only scratching the surface of the LFE track because his sub is incapable of playing the notes. If he had a better sub, he would have never made that statement. The truth is that any new movie made today with the slightest hint of action will have spectacular sound effects. If you want to hear them, all you need is a sub that can play them. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2438 Registered: Jan-05 | I disagree with smaller is better. The bottom line is 'better is better', and the better built sub with more quality and the most capability will do more and sound better. The little subs simply cant keep up or do what the 'big boys' can do. Keep in mind, I'm talking about reproducing the hard to hit notes that are everywhere in movies. Music soundtracks are much less demanding, and are nowhere near as challenging to reproduce in most cases because they simply dont have the lows in their tracks that are present in movies. Because of that, you can sneak by with less sub if you only intend to listen to music CDs. Music is a whole different ballgame. In fact, I prefer 2channel direct and bypass my sub if I want to crank some tunes. My CVs go plenty low for music, but with movies, a behemoth sub is necessary if you want to hear and feel the entire soundtrack. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1672 Registered: Feb-05 | Paul....you admitted listening to music...do tell! Is it Lynyrd Skynyrd or Molly Hatchett? |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2443 Registered: Jan-05 | lol....Funny thing is that I have some from both of those bands eventhough Im not a southern rocker. Mostly Im a classic rock fan in it's purest form. ACDC, ZEp,ZZtop, A-smith, Seger, Bad Company, and stuff like that. I do like some of the new rock, eventhough I havent bought a music CD in over a decade. I have old stuff from the old Stones, Hendrix, Joplin and other various artists in the sixties, 70s, and 80s. When I graduated from college, I pretty much put music behind me. I do listen to MP3s while im on the computer, but not through my HT setup. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 996 Registered: Jun-05 | You havent bought a cd in over a decade you should be bared for ever comenting on anything to do with audio even H/T GeeeeWizz.....!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1673 Registered: Feb-05 | Hey I wish I had Paul's restraint. I might still have money in my pocket. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2445 Registered: Jan-05 | Yea, Unfortunately for that TA idiot.......I have hundreds of DVDs that all have amazing audio. Whatta dork. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 521 Registered: Apr-04 | .......I have hundreds of DVDs that all have amazing audio." Paul.......too bad you don't have something decent to hear them! |