Arcam avr250 vs nadt763
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Bronze Member Username: Big_redOntario Canada Post Number: 11 Registered: Jul-04 | I know the avr300 is comparable to the 763 from a feature perspective, however the 250 is closer in price. With that said which would you choose the 250 or the 763 and why? I love the sound of the NAD, and it has more features then the Arcam, but reading a review on the 250 (http://ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/605arcam/) has me questioning the decision to go with the 763 (its getting delivered tomorrow). The sales guy who owns a avr200 strongly believes that price/performance the 763 is the way to go. I would appreciate others thoughts on this. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1648 Registered: Feb-05 | Hi Big Red, I am really enjoying my T763. Why are you second guessing yourself. Arcam makes a great product and the AVR250 sounds very good but so does the T763. Give your new receiver a chance, if you don't like it simply return it. |
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Bronze Member Username: AgimatPost Number: 94 Registered: Aug-04 | Many dealers in Ontario carry both brand so if you can listen to those model side by side the better. |
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Bronze Member Username: Big_redOntario Canada Post Number: 12 Registered: Jul-04 | Well I got the receiver (and the HSU STF-2) yesterday and set it up. Fantastic sound - LIstening to a few CDs and watching the Lord of the Rings blew me away. While the Arcam may be better (since I have not heard it live I can't truly say), at the moment (after a half day) I'm pleased with my decision. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sound_advicePost Number: 82 Registered: Sep-04 | I actually exchanged a Nad t773 for the smaller Arcam Avr 250, and I have not regretted my decision, the Arcam has a little less power but not that noticeable, overall the arcam had better bass and treble (just seemed smoother)plus I get to bi-amp my fronts. Don't get me wrong the Nad was great but I couldn't get over it's noisy fan and it's Hums/Hiss |
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Bronze Member Username: Big_redOntario Canada Post Number: 13 Registered: Jul-04 | No hum/hiss or fan noise so far. Was that an issue with earlier builds or is this a problem that people are still finding? |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2469 Registered: Jan-05 | Between NAD and ARCAM?? Hopefully you have very efficient and tiny speakers too. LOL |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1697 Registered: Feb-05 | Paul, behave yourself! |
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Bronze Member Username: Big_redOntario Canada Post Number: 14 Registered: Jul-04 | So I spoke too soon when I said no hum or hiss. It only took a couple of extra days and more listening time and they both came to light. The hum from the receiver is so bad that I have to crank up the volume to drown it out. Personally I love the sound of the NADs, which is why I have spent the last 12 months and now gone three different receivers trying to get it to work (I also have a NAD 2 channel receiver), but they are now batting 0 for 3 and I've had enough. I went to the dealer today and he is providing an exchange no questions asked (again says a lot about buying from a great dealer). My choices are between the Arcam 250/300 and Marantz (there really are no other choices at the dealer without going into even higher end seperates). |
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New member Username: AllenPost Number: 2 Registered: Sep-05 | hey big Red, Who is your dealer? thanks |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1846 Registered: Feb-05 | Such is life with NAD AV gear. |
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Bronze Member Username: Ht_addictPost Number: 13 Registered: May-05 | Used to have a NAD T773, worked like a charm. Sound was excellent, bass plentiful and tight. As I usually do, got the urge to upgrade so I put the NAD up forsale. Person I sold it too had already demoed an Arcam AVR250 with his PSB Stratus Glold/Silver/C6 and it just couldn't drive the speakers the way he wanted it too. Listening to Eagles HFO DTS was unlistenable at loud levels for him. So I took over the NAD and hooked it up to his speakers. In the end he kept the unit and I got a new Denon 4806. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2349 Registered: Mar-05 | Guys, just try out that all-digital Panny xr55 first, you might well laugh your @sses off at the thought that you were ready to fork out so much money for an AVR when 250 lousy bucks could get you something that sounds equal or better! (If you hate it, get your money back from Circuit City and you can laugh at me instead.) |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1852 Registered: Feb-05 | Good lord Edster the Panny may be nice it won't compare to an Arcam or Denon 4806. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2355 Registered: Mar-05 | Maybe not Art maybe not but why not let Circuit City pay for it if it's not? I have honestly have read of people on other forums choosing it over gear of the Arcam & Denon's quality/price so I don't think it's ENTIRELY out of the range of possibility. Call us digital freaks clinically insane but there was actually one fella on the original "list of digital receivers" thread on the avsforum.com who said that he ended up selling his Krell amp after hearing the earlier model xr25. Who knows, maybe he was a Panny sales rep in disguise! lol |
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Bronze Member Username: Big_redOntario Canada Post Number: 16 Registered: Jul-04 | Hey Lhendong send me a pm and I'll give you the contact information. Edster, I have to admit that I have been considering going with a pure HT setup instead of the sweet sound of the Arcam - and yes Art's post actually started me down that thought process. I may actually go and demo one of these, just to say I've done it - and then I can move on with a clear concious. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2386 Registered: Mar-05 | yes! A clear conscience is a wonderful thing to have... (Also you just might be surprised to find that the Panny does music very well too...all bets are off with this little thing.) |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1870 Registered: Feb-05 | "Maybe not Art maybe not but why not let Circuit City pay for it if it's not? I have honestly have read of people on other forums choosing it over gear of the Arcam & Denon's quality/price so I don't think it's ENTIRELY out of the range of possibility." Yes, it is out of the range of possibility. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2422 Registered: Mar-05 | Art, > Yes, it is out of the range of possibility. Er, no it's not. Read the post by "hardwired"---there are many more like that if you have the patience to dig through those massive AVS threads. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=587163 |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 460 Registered: Jul-05 | You have to keep in mind Art that Arcam, NAD, etc isn't necessarily what everyone out there is after. Someone I know once said some people like imported gellato from Italy. Others are every bit as happy eating Safeway Select ice cream. Point being you never know till you try. Besides, the NAD with all its hum and other such fun would still be outperformed and for much less money. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1875 Registered: Feb-05 | I know that DA, but just because someone doesn't want Wilson's doesn't mean that Paradigms sound better it just means they don't want Wilson's. NAD wasn't a part of that statement only Arcam and a high end Denon was. Eddie you can find folks who will say anything. It doesn't make it so. I know you have an affinity for the "giant killer" but it's gotten the better of your common sense. I have no doubt that you like the Panny and having heard it I know why, but it is NOT high end gear and Arcam is. Not just for it's name but for it's sound. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1876 Registered: Feb-05 | An excerpt from the link you posted. "The XR55 rocks. Or go even higher end with a Rotel 1077 and a good pre-amp. I heard Samsung had a THX Ultra 2 certified receiver, but it was a bit pricy." Sounds coherent doesn't he. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2429 Registered: Mar-05 | That's from a different user, btw. But I think he's referring to the Rotel 1077 digital amp http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rmb1077.htm and Samsung has a very expensive ($5000!) digital receiver with THX Ultra 2 certificiation. http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20050106_00 00090603 these are two very high-end digitals, whereas the xr55 is ridiculously cheap. Obviously it probably can't match the other 2, but one wouldn't expect it to. The Arcam I'm sure is an awesome analog receiver. But it's analog...so is its sound quality HUGELY better than a cheap digital Panny? I haven't heard it so I can't say for sure. However I don't think it's entirely beyond the realm of possibility that the Panny comes very close, equals or even surpasses it. This is how I see it, Art: in a land of overpriced bicycles, Panny has come out with a very cheap motorcycle. Some folk may prefer the bicycles, and more power to them. But at the end of the day these are two very different animals. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1878 Registered: Feb-05 | I agree Eddie that's why I believe that when someone asks about an Arcam it is inappropriate to show him/her the budget Panny or Yammie. It's like if I went to my realtor and asked to see a 3 bedroom 2 bath home in a good neighborhood and she shows me a very nice studio apartment in a sketchy hood. We ain't likely to agree on this but that's how I feel. You are up early this morning. Check my answer to your question on movie thread. Have a great morning. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2436 Registered: Mar-05 | > It's like if I went to my realtor and asked to see a 3 bedroom 2 bath home in a good neighborhood and she shows me a very nice studio apartment in a sketchy hood. No, I'd say you asked for a $600K stucco house and the realtor shows you a $200K Hardy-plank house which, inside, has all the same or better amenities and floor plan but is in a less prestigious looking neighborhood. It'd have to be a pretty nutty realtor since they work off a percentage commission...but I don't. I get paid a flat fee by my good conscience! lol > You are up early this morning. Yeah, don't know what's got into me. Maybe it's the Panny fever, heh. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 461 Registered: Jul-05 | "I know that DA, but just because someone doesn't want Wilson's doesn't mean that Paradigms sound better it just means they don't want Wilson's. " But if someone thinks that Wilsons sound muddy and say GMA Europas don't, then it does mean, at least to that person, that GMA's do sound better. There is after all no absolute in this hobby. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 462 Registered: Jul-05 | And as far as this goes "Good lord Edster the Panny may be nice it won't compare to an Arcam or Denon 4806." I bet it would wipe the floor with his humming and hissing NAD! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2439 Registered: Mar-05 | er, my NAD has never had the hum/hiss problem since it's 2-channel. Only their multichannel AVRs have that, as far as I've read. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 623 Registered: May-05 | At the top of the thread it says: "Thread: Arcam avr250 vs nadt763" It doesn't say: "Thread: Edster's Panny xr55 --- what 228 bucks'll getcha..." It seems like every receiver thread has become the latter. Can we keep the Panny vs whatever else in the appropriate thread? I understand throwing in digital receivers or even the Panny as an alternative, but not the main focus of the thread. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 2443 Registered: Mar-05 | ok. DA & Art, Stu has put you on notice! : ) |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1880 Registered: Feb-05 | Yeah Eddie and DA! lol.. Actually the NAD sounds great when you can't hear the hum and hiss. But remember I responded relative to the Arcam and upscale Denon. "But if someone thinks that Wilsons sound muddy and say GMA Europas don't, then it does mean, at least to that person, that GMA's do sound better. There is after all no absolute in this hobby." True, after all Paul likes his CV's better than any of those boutique wine and cheese speakers, but that don't make him right. Opinions are like....well, you know the rest. Some folks are more informed than others. That doesn't speak to preference but it does to expertise. In that sense there certainly aren't any absolutes in this hobby. Remember there are some folks who still prefer Bose, and they aren't wrong it's just their preference. However, there isn't one of us who doesn't let them know how we feel about that preference. Well lunch is over and the boss is lurking. Out! |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 465 Registered: Jul-05 | Fun is over. Damn. I had a flat tire last night coming home from work; I took that as a sign from God that I shouldn't go to work today, but instead listen to the Eagles and loaf. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1881 Registered: Feb-05 | Sounds like a GOOD omen DA! |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 473 Registered: Jul-05 | Fortunately it was only 20 bucks to patch the tire up. Either way I enjoyed the break from work  |
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Lou Cypher Unregistered guest | You're fired. I don't want no lazy advocate who takes a day off just because of a meazly flat tire. And don't say I made you do it! Everyone says that: "The devil made me do it!" Hurumph! Your boss Ol' Nick |
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Bronze Member Username: Big_redOntario Canada Post Number: 17 Registered: Jul-04 | Lhendong got your pm - you need to enable pm so that I can respond. Edster, I took a quick listen of the panny - haven't had a lot of time to play recently, and for HT it is fine, but when listening to music it can't hold a candle to even a humming NAD (you just have to turn the music up loud enough so that you don't hear the hum...LOL). With that said, I've realized from some of the demos that I've been doing that I need to upgrade my KEFs (along with the humming NAD) and start again. While the KEFs are goood for their price range, I now know that I will never be satisfied with my system without a significant upgrade. |
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New member Username: AllenPost Number: 3 Registered: Sep-05 | Big Red, Enabled pm thanks |
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Silver Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 146 Registered: Dec-03 | I own an NAD 743 and it has less audible hiss than any other receiver I've ever auditioned (including comparable receivers from Denon, Sony, and Yamaha). As a matter of fact, the only receiver I've listened to that had virtually no hiss was a Rotel. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2075 Registered: Feb-05 | Listen again. |
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Silver Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 147 Registered: Dec-03 | Like you, I too fell victim to what I now term the "NAD Mass Hiss Hysteria." Everyone was so busy trying to hear the hiss mentioned on boards like this from their NAD receiver that they never bothered to check any other receiver for the same phenomenon. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2090 Registered: Feb-05 | "NAD Mass Hiss Hysteria." Everyone was so busy trying to hear the hiss mentioned on boards like this from their NAD receiver that they never bothered to check any other receiver for the same phenomenon.' Not hardly. I wanted to keep my NAD in the worst way. It hummed audibly and none (except my Rotel)of the other receivers I've owned has done that. I now own a Marantz and a Yamaha. They are near dead quiet. Thankfully they are used as a source component and not the primary for music because they wouldn't cut it for that. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 991 Registered: Sep-04 | Yeah, but I'll bet they don't sound as engaging. They might sound better - i.e. lower noise floor, better resolution. But are they as engaging? That's where NAD scores strongly. FWIW, I think the Arcam destroys a T763. I ahven't tried it up against the T773... Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 148 Registered: Dec-03 | I now own a Marantz and a Yamaha. They are near dead quiet. You have a Yamaha with a zero noise floor? I listened to several, at two different dealers, and never experienced that. What's your secret? |
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Sam Mosa Unregistered guest | Frank Abela et al In the Ultimate AV review of the Arcam AVR250, the reviewer Lawrence E. Ullman noted that: The AVR300 offers that extra 25Wpc, provides preamp outputs for all channels (the AVR250 provides only a subwoofer output) ... What does he mean by the AVR250 not having preamp outputs for all channels (as compared to the AVR300)? I don't understand that. See sub-heading "Good Things in Small Packages" first paragraph, second to the last sentence in the below link http://www.guidetohometheater.com/avreceivers/605arcam/ Thanks Sam |
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Bronze Member Username: NadzCalifornia Post Number: 17 Registered: Aug-05 | It means you can't use the receiver as just a pre-amp processor or upgrade the amps to bigger ones. To be honest. The person who decided not to add this feature on a 1500.00 receiver should be shot. At this high a price tag the receiver should have pre-outs. PERIOD !!! Hell, you can get this feautre on a 300.00 Pioneer. Rant over. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 375 Registered: Feb-05 | I have heard nearly every receiver on the market except the Panny,the new Samsung and the Arcam. I will concede and give the Arcam the edge in two channel listening,even though I've never heard it,but at least from what I have read it sounds very musical. I'm very skeptical that it's multichannel performance is better than HK, upper end Yamaha and Denon and Marantz however. If I were gonna go the digital route I would probably get the HK DPR2005 as this is about the best offering currently in that category. I have heard all of the NAD's at a good dealer. I heard the 753 and the 763 in a quiet room through Monitor Audio speakers and with the volume turned all the way down with my ear pressed against the speaker could hear no hiss/hum or fan noise with my ear against the unit. I agree with you NADz a $1500 receiver without pre-amp outputs is ridiculous. Also someone who pays $4000-5000 for a receiver needs their head examined,that will buy seperates that no receiver made can match in terms of sound quality and power. The "NAD mass hiss hysteria" seems to be moving toward HK as well. I'll beg to differ as mine is dead quiet. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1101 Registered: Sep-04 | Sam, NADz has it right on. And for what it's worth I agree that the lack of upgradeability is ridiculous on such an expensive receiver. That said, the AVR250 is very engaging, so if a one-box solution is what you're after and you don't have ambitions to upgrade to separate processor/poweramps, then it's an excellent solution. Eric, one of the Arcam's strengths is a very naturalistic soundfield which seems to escape all the other brands (apart from HK which I haven't heard). It makes for a far more believable movie experience. The hiss/hum issue on NADs is hit and miss - some units suffer, most don't, and it's my impression that the issue is far less nowadays than it used to be. Hiss is more a product of the preamp than solid state power amps. This is why preamps (and processors) can be so expensive. Turning the volume down would almost always result in very little or no residual hiss (because you're just listening to the power amp section). Turn the volume up to the normal listening level and see if you can hear hiss from the normal listening point (not pressed up against the speaker). If you can, then that's reasonably high and more than one would wish. If you can't then it's fine. Regards, Frank. |
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