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annoymousKaitlyn Unregistered guest | Hi everyone i have to say the majority of members on this forum are quite intelligent, i have been reading up on previous threads to become familiar enough with this audio stuff to not insult your intelligence...hopefully. well my husband has bought two Athena AS-B1 speakers and a Athena center, he is now looking for some AS-F1's. i understand these are pretty hard to find, or at least he is having trouble. For his upcoming birthday i would like to suprise him with a new receiver, we have a FM Sony one now but i know he want a DOlby Digital surround home theater/ music one. So i am just asking for suggestions for a receiver. I noticed on previous threads that these speakers should not be paired with a pitchy reciever...or at least certain preferenced people say that. So any "warm, detailed" receiver will work great i think..just anything to compliment Athena well. thanks so much for the help guys, my budget is under $350 and ill probably buy off the internet since its so much cheaper. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 663 Registered: Oct-04 | Harman Kardon, Pioneer Elite, Marantz are all great products that are considered warm. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 351 Registered: Jul-05 | Check out the Panasonic XR-55 thread. While not warm, it is being described as neutral and detailed. Moreover, it seems to have given an excellent account of itself against some fairly high end competition including a significantly more expensive Marantz receiver. It should mate well enough with Athena speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 303 Registered: Apr-05 | You may also want to check Ubid.com. They have some decent refurbished receivers named by Kano for about your price range. |
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annonymousKaitlyn Unregistered guest | thanks for the help guys. ill look into those. i have seen a few harmon kardons and they all seem to put out about 55 watts compared to around 90 found in similar priced receivers. why is this and do the harmons tend to overexert themselves when played loud due to lower watts? |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 356 Registered: Jul-05 | Harmon Kardons are more conservatively rated than a lot of other receivers. They tend to be built better than a lot of lower priced competitors that claim to put out 100 watts or so (think a $200 Kenwood for example). In addition, thanks to their build quality, they can drive a wider range of speakers including many 4 ohm models effectively. Also of note, the actual difference in volume between 55 and 90 watts is less than 3dB. |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 306 Registered: Apr-05 | Kaitlyn you may want to go and actually listen to a few of these before buying. I don't know where you live, but if you are near a bigger city look for HK and Marantz dealers and listen to them. You can always get a deal from a refurb on the internet. In Chicago for instance you can go to Saturday Audio Exchange where you may even be able to get as good a deal from the retailer. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2370 Registered: Jan-05 | Yea, and my 220HP sedan really has more horsepower than any 260HP engines from any other manufacturers. Shhh....it's a secret though. It's the same way with receivers too. Sincerely, Receiver & Auto Bench Tests |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 358 Registered: Jul-05 | Actually Paul, Hyundai & Kia recently lost a class action lawsuit because they overstated their rated HP. In addition, the SAE recently revised the standard by which HP is measured because it did allow for quite a bit of cheating. How much the new standard fixes this, I don't know. But the old way was definately flawed. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 359 Registered: Jul-05 | One other thing of importance when you look at the power figure is how many channels are being driven, over what frequency range, and what impedance. Hopefully it will be all channels driven over 20Hz-20kHz into 8 ohms. If not, this is one way a manufacturer can cheat. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2372 Registered: Jan-05 | Were they quoting as "all cylinders driven", or one at a time?? HEH I know what you're talking about but it's only really relevent to the cheap bottom end market. A great example is looking at a cheapie $350 pioneer receiver and comparing it to a $1350 Elite model with the same power rating. You're getting exactly what you're paying for. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 360 Registered: Jul-05 | Exactly. But we are talking about $300 receivers here. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 665 Registered: Oct-04 | Paul, pipe down, Yamaha's been notorious for inflating all their power ratings in the last 10 years. Your receiver actually puts out a true 100 watts per channel so they had to call it 130 so the consumer will know it's better than all their other receivers claiming 100 watts a channel and delivering 70. Harman Kardon takes the high road and rates their receivers very critically. IMO their ratings represent a guarentee that their receivers will deliver at least that much power, even under the most tenuous conditions with all 7 channels pushing a full load. Other receivers play back a 1000 Hz test tone tone channel at a time and market around that number. Take Jan Vigne's advice and look at how much the receiver weighs. The power supply and heat sinks' quality will be reflected in how much heavier a good receiver is. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 363 Registered: Jul-05 | "Take Jan Vigne's advice and look at how much the receiver weighs. The power supply and heat sinks' quality will be reflected in how much heavier a good receiver is. " Of course with the new all digital Panasonic receiver that Eddie is looking at, even this is changing. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 666 Registered: Oct-04 | Harman Kardon AVR335 - 55 watts x 7 channels - 31lbs Yamaha HTR-5760 ----------- 110 watts x 7 channels - 27.8lbs Pioneer 1015Tx ---------------- 120 watts x 7 channels - 33 lbs Harman Kardon AVR635 - 75 watts x 7 - 47 lbs Pioneer Elite VSX54 ---------- 110 watts x 7 - 39.7 lbs Yamaha RX-V2500 ----------------- 130 watts x 7 - 34.2 lbs Harman Kardon AVR7300 - 110 watts x 7 - 69.3 lbs Pioneer Elite VSX59Txi ----160 watts x 7 - 68 lbs Yamaha RX-Z9 ------------- 170 watts x 7 - 66.1 lbs I think the weight tells a pretty accurate story of the performance of these analog receivers. |
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annonymousKaitlyn Unregistered guest | Funny i just picked up our older Sony, it must be about 15 pounds. Hard to compare considering it doesnt have all the home theater components but im sure it fallows the same criteria. i think im going to stick with the Marantz or Harmon Kardon. Shouldnt i stay away from refurbs, i cant imagine they are as reliable as new ones. One last question guys, sorry, is Dolby Digital the same as Dolby Digital EX, and what other MUST features for the basic surround home theater/music will my receiver need to have. thanks for everything. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 668 Registered: Oct-04 | I'd look for 6 channel direct input, 8 channel pre-outs (7 channels + 1 subwoofer), and make sure its got enough inputs for all your gear. Also 2nd zone may be a good feature if you ever want to add 2 speakers in another room or patio to a 5.1 set-up. Any decent model in the Harman Kardon or Marantz line have good feature sets so really it's the sound that should guide you. Dolby Digital EX is a mode on the receiver that will matrix sound to the surround back channels from the regular Dolby Digital track. The surround back channels play the same track as the surround channels, filling out the space behind the listener when necessary with 7.1 |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1898 Registered: Mar-05 | Kaitlyn, just about any receiver above say $300 is going to do HT just fine, unless 1. your viewing room is the size of an auditorium, 2. you will be connecting about 3 dozen different components to your AVR, 3. you have very low-impedance speakers (which the Athenas are not), or 4. you listen to your movies at +90db (very, very loud) while dividing your focus at 50/50 between the TV and the speakers, spending more than maybe $500 for an analog HT receiver is IMO a complete waste of money. Also keep in mind that 95% of DVDs today still have 5.1 soundtracks, so whether your receiver has 6 or 7 channels or not is pretty irrelevant. When you ask a receiver to "simulate" extra channels that do not exist in the original source you usually will get a very fake sounding result...particularly for music. So as you shop for your AVR, just be alert for all the useless bells and whistles and marketing gimmicks they'll throw at you. If you max budget is $350 for a HT receiver then the pure-digital Panasonic sa-xr55 is a no-brainer, Amazon.com has it for $230 shipped. If you husband doesn't like it (very unlikely) return shipping should be $15-20 and you'll get a full refund. A lot of people who have invested 5-10 times that money in their analog AVRs will scoff at it (usually without ever having heard it) in an effort to avoid buyer's remorse, but you owe it to yourself to try this groundbreaking new technology. In fact I'd say that if your HT receiver was under $1300 the xr55 would still be a no-brainer unless you have a gazillion different components to hook up to it. Save your money for a good sub ($400-600 Hsu or SVS), if your husband is like most men he will definitely enjoy feeling as well as hearing the rumbles and explosions. |
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annonymousKaitlyn Unregistered guest | wow thats cheaper than i orginally planned for. Ill go with the panasonic unless one of these would soot me better. Marantz sr4400 Marantz sr4500 http://www.ac4l.com/Amazing/searchresult.asp?CartId=11282055Q-EVEREST-BCQE90&tpc = Yamaha rx-v657 Denon 1705 I appreciate all the help |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1901 Registered: Mar-05 | Accessories4less is an excellent dealer, that's where I got my Marantz 4300 cdp. Personally though I don't think any of those receivers you listed could match the Panny. I own the (next model up) Marantz 5400 receiver and found the Panny significantly better. |
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Silver Member Username: TpizzlePost Number: 358 Registered: Apr-05 | ya i was reading your review..very convincing. do you know anything about the model up from that the sa-xr70. it has pretty much the same specs as the xr55 that you tried but it msrp's for $499 unlike the xr55 at $299. Amazon is selling the xr70 for 290 shipped. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1907 Registered: Mar-05 | the xr70 actually preceded the 55. I don't know why they decided to count downwards though. Look at the xr55 thread on avsforum.com I think some people compared the two. |
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Anonymous | Some good advice was given but I don't think the buyer should get too hung up on weight and power supplies at that price level. Yes HK has some heavy AVRs and they rate their power more accurately than others. However, this can be at the expense of exessive heat and noise (from the power supply). I think this counts for most of the problems found in HK AVRs after a short while of actual usage. |
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Silver Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 133 Registered: Jun-05 | Once again Paul tries to obfuscate the situation with inane blathering that is not only off-topic but seriously flawed in and of itself. Because what you are comparing is just one spec, not the entire gamut that encompasses real-world performance. You are correct that a car with 260hp has more hp than a car with 220; but you can't say that the car with 260hp will be a better performer. Well... you can, and you probably will, but you'd be wrong. Fact is, a 190hp Lotus Elise will blow the doors off ANY current production car with ~260hp and many having 300+hp. Because hp is only one aspect of performance, just like the rated watts on an AVR. He11, ask any old drag racer, and he'll tell you "HP sells cars, Torque wins races." And in the case of that Lotus, it isn't even torque, it's weight. And, for the original poster, I would lean towards the Marantz or HK myself, but I say that having not heard Edster's Panny. |
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mojo86 Unregistered guest | Hi, just wanted to add, check out Onkyo. I'm new to this but mine sounds awesome. The Eagles Live DVD sounds incredible on it. $404.00 out the door/shipped from Crutchfield for the Onkyo TX-SR602. Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Thunder18Post Number: 30 Registered: Jul-05 | Kaitlyn, Have you discussed this with your husband at all? I know you want to surprise him which is very admirable. It seems as if you have put a lot of time and effort into this endeavour. My only issue is that some men can be very picky about their electronics to the point that if they didn't pick it out, they will never truly be happy with it. I've gone throught 3 receivers in 4 years. The first one I purchased. 2 years later my girlfriend bought me another one(which was one I had picked out). Only just recently I bought another one! Nothing wrong physically with either of the other two. Just some new features that I couldn't live without. My girlfriend was pretty upset with me when I bought the most recent one as she felt that her buying the second one made it more special and she felt that I was kind of casting off her gift. I'm only saying this because of experience and I want you to be ready for what may lie ahead. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1924 Registered: Mar-05 | actually if you have any interest in the Onkyo 602 at all, ecost.com has it for $231 shipped, refurb of course. For strictly HT it would be OK, though for that price you can get the far far better Panny xr55. |
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anonymousKaitlyn Unregistered guest | i just wanted to say thanks again for all the help...im excited to see his reaction especially during our first movie!! We have a standard dvd player, is it worth upgrading to a $100 one? i have always thought a dvd player is a dvd player but i have seen a few for $600. What should we look for in a dvd player, any necessary components? we dont have an hdtv or anything. Wow, this could be awkward shopping with him and knowing more about the equipment than he does. He'll know ive been up to something |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 392 Registered: Jul-05 | "We have a standard dvd player, is it worth upgrading to a $100 one?" Depends largely on what you have now. You may gain a few things like progressive scan which may improve picture quality depending on your TV. As for audio improvements, again it depends on what you have now and how you plan on connecting to your receiver. If you use a digital coax or optical cable, the difference will be minimal to non-existant, assuming your DVD player now is of respectable quality. You may choose to use an analog connection, in which case the difference would be more noticable; this may actually be worse than the digital connection to your receiver though depending on its quality. So in short, in terms of video performance, maybe. In terms of audio performance, probably not. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 500 Registered: May-05 | Paul, I'm way late in response here. The horsepower problem is not "limited" to low end, cheaper vehicles. The Mazda 6 had to revise its horsepower ratings, as has the 2004 Mustang GT and a couple of other higher end domestic and foreign vehicles. And, had you been reading one of my earlier threads, Don put up a link where you could go to a testing outfit's site and see the actual, rated wpc for several manufacturers' equipment when tested in the same fashion, e.g., my Denon 3803 was putting out like 92 wpc instead of the rated 110 wpc. Hey, I hate to blast you with facts but it's what I do, big fella. AND Ziggy, thanks for throwing in the Lotus pocket rocket to end all pocket rockets. It will out perform some cars with 400-500 horsepower in a straight line and as soon as we move from straight line performance to grand prix type tracks, forget it. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 501 Registered: May-05 | Kaitlyn, I just went from a $100 progressive scan to a used Denon 2200 DVD/SACD/DVD-A Universal player. The picture quality is only marginally better but the sound quality was worth the price of admission. Ask Edster about his recent purchase and I think he will agree. Dave |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1929 Registered: Mar-05 | Kaitlyn, if you have a big screen HDTV then a DVD player that has progressive scan and at least component video outputs will get you an improved picture. Other than that, with a smaller tube (36" or less) non HDTV, your old DVD player is fine. Now for music listening, I did find a big improvement when I went from my Panasonic DVD player to a Sony ES cd player, and equally big when I went from the sony ES player to a Marantz CD player. That Marantz 4300 was a steal, I got it for $142 shipped from accessories4less.com I think brand new it goes for around $250. If your husband doesn't really listen to too many CDs then a cheap DVD player might be fine. Look into the Toshiba 3980, there's some discussion about it in the "CD players under $500" thread in the "CD Players" subsection of this forum. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2421 Registered: Jan-05 | I agree with the previous response that Kaityln should not choose the receiver. He'll appreciate it much more if he gets to pick out what he wants. Having your wife choose eletronics components is a definite "NO-NO" and should be avoided at all costs. If you want to surprise him with something, make it something else. |
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Anonymous | kaitlyn, this paul is a jerkoff, don't listen to him |
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Bronze Member Username: Thunder18Post Number: 31 Registered: Jul-05 | I think the previous poster is a jerk. Geez, he's just stating his opinion. I don't recall him saying anything particularly offensive. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 503 Registered: May-05 | Chris, Do you have multiple personalities or do you always argue with yourself? Also, you'd have to know our dear friend, Paul, better to know if he's a jerk or just stating his opinion and whether he's being offensive. I'll let others weigh in on Paul's intended offensiveness OR NOT! LOL You could ask Jan to give Paul one of his patented ratings, though. |
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Bronze Member Username: Thunder18Post Number: 32 Registered: Jul-05 | Actually, I was referring to 'Anonymous'. I don't believe I read anything offensive from Paul in this post. I feel it's quite rude to call him a jerkoff just for posting his opinion. That's all. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2429 Registered: Jan-05 | Chris, I wouldnt even bother responding to the fools who post under the anon moniker if I were you. It's not worth it. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 990 Registered: Jun-05 | Well Chris you certainlly havent been around enough then,But Ill leave it at that.Dave you know I love the Lotus,im a very involved Miata owner so you know where im coming from.The biggest things with cars like the Miatas,Mr2 spyders,S2000s,Boxters,and of course the almighty Lotus,is the power to weight ratio are so impressive on theses cars in particular,it makes the driving experience unlike any others on four wheels the only thing thats something like it is a Motorcycle.I have a 420 H.P. Chrysler Conquest Tsi,and its no where near as fun to drive as my 200 H.P. Miata to drive! |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 891 Registered: Sep-04 | Kaitlyn, Yours is a lovely gesture. Provided the people you buy it from will allow an exchange with something on the lines that you mention above, then it's a fairly safe bet and you get the fun of him opening a surprise on his birthday! It's unusual for companies not to allow an exchange within a short period of time (say a week or two). As to the DVD player thing, you will get better picture and better sound with a better DVD player. You may also get more features which you may not use now, but which you may use in future, thus allowing for a little future-proofing. In particular, new displays tend to offer two main features - progressive scan (a way of displaying pictures that makes more sense of the scene as well as suffering less motion artefacts) and digital connection (either DVI or HDMI). Digital connection usually (but not always) allows for HD transmissions to be shown in HD (typically 720 progressive or 1080 interlaced). Some sets can take an HD transmission and show it in standard form (480 lines either interlaced or progressive). Whenever you decide to buy a new display in future you will more than likely be offerred an HD capable display. Finally, there is a new HD format war brewing between HD-DVD and BluRay. These formats are for discs containing high definition content and early machines will be out in the next few months. We're hoping the various contenders will sort themselves out and give us one standard to play with in order not to confuse the customers, but history has taught us that these contenders have less sense than your average lab rat so the chances are the contest will last too long and both formats die a stillborn death. If the companies came to their senses then there may be an HD disc machine worth buying just a few months away. I'm not necessarily saying these features are worth buying now, but these are the kinds of things you may wish to consider. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 508 Registered: May-05 | Kaitlyn, If you husband ever fails to appreciate you, you have won the hearts of about 20 plus guys on here. My wife would never consider buying me audio. She might go along for the ride but never more. LOL |
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anonymousKaitlyn Unregistered guest | well i appreciate everything. i laugh at all your guys comments on wife opionions about your system. im no better than your wives, i wasnt the most enthusiastic when my husband confronted me about spending $1200 on a system. But ill get the benefit of using it, and now ill be even more proud knowing i helped build it...or at leastlistened to you guys as you built it. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2448 Registered: Jan-05 | geez... |