Match for maggies
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New member Username: LouderplzVirginiaBeach, VA USA Post Number: 6 Registered: Aug-05 | I am in search of pre/pro combo or receiver to satisfy my power hungery MMG, 2pr of MMG-W and MMG-C. My wife ordered the Sherwood A965 and P965 from Brandnamez.com but the order got canceled because the order took to long to post to my account(10 days). Any suggestions, I was looking at the NAD T773, NAD T163/T973 pre/pro combo, or the Outlaw 990 and 7 mono blocks(model 2200 XLR conections) or the 770. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 321 Registered: Mar-04 | at the budget end of the spectrum... NAD is the cheapest amplification you can get that will handle 4 ohm loads. it's good that you DIDN'T go with the sherwood because pretty much EVERY japanese reciever made isn't friendly to 4 ohm loads. another possibility might be audiosource at the cheap end of the spectrum. WAY back in the 90s, audio magazine gave the amp 1 a rave review especially if used as a minimalist 1 input integrated amp. audiosource is specked to handle 4 ohm loads. i'm on a similar mission myself as i want to go planar too. from what scraps of info that i've found, the IRD MB-100 (also sold as the Norh Le Amp I) looks promising as a cost effective source of amplification. they're under $300 each monoblocks rated at 200 watts into four ohms and have a buzz as "the best entry level amps", but alot of that buzz is from diehard norh fanatics that congregate in norh forums. i OWN an NAD reciever that i'm thinking of getting fixed just so i can test drive MMGs in my home (my onkyo can't do 4 ohms) but i'm not keen on NAD sound or reliability. with NHT superzeros, NAD sounds so polite in the treble that i'd go as far to call it muffled. the magnepan MG12s that turned me into a planar fan that i auditioned sounded slightly polite in the treble (compared to B&Ws anyways) and would seem to like a little bit more treble extension. in roughly the same $$$ range, rotel gear gets similar ratings to NAD, but is slightly brighter, and ALOT of people were recommending parasound the last time i brought the topic up in the speaker forum. no-one recommended adcom which is available cheap on the used market, but alot of people gave a nod to hafler. sorry i don't have a defginative answer for you. more than anything, try to find an amp that has as close to double the power output at 4 ohms as it does at 8 ohms. after that... 100wpc+ is a goal for listening at full volume. it would be really nice if magnepan offered suggestions for amps that have great synergy with their products at different price points. if you're interested in outlaw gear... enter the sweepstakes here at ecoustics if it's still up. i did precisely because i'm looking for 4 ohm friendly amplification. ALOT of peaople swear by maggie/NAD combos. i'm not sold on NAD gear myself. |
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New member Username: LouderplzVirginiaBeach, VA USA Post Number: 7 Registered: Aug-05 | I just ordered th Outlaw 990, but I have yet to order an amplifier. I don't want to have the same problem that I hav with my Yamaha RXV2400(not enough power)I have to reach -10 to even touch the surface with the prformance of the maggies. The specs look really good on the outlaw, but what amps say and what amps tend to do are different things. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 326 Registered: Mar-04 | yamaha is another BAD choice for maggies. japanese recievers are almost ALL optimized for 8 ohm loads and don't have the power supplies to deal with a 4 ohm load. my onkyo vurtually has a skull and crossbones in the owners manual regarding 4 ohm loads. i'd recommend against considering any of these brand recievers (unless you get 1970s built like tanks models) sony yamaha jvc onkyo denon sherwood technics and wouldn't trust marantz or harman kardon either with a 4 ohm load. if you look at ANY of these brands, and i've done etensive reserach trying to find an alternative to NAD, most of them NEVER mention 4 ohm loads in their specs and the few that do, don't get close to the recommended 2X power at 4 ohms. if you don't believe me, check for yourself. go to all of these brands websites and look for 4 ohm friendly specs. maggies are the best value in speakers by a longshot, but they require a little bit of a budget stretch for amplification. i STILL think: outlaw audio, NAD, audiosource & proton are all the same company as the gear all looks so much alike. (i KNOW NAD and proton are sister companies) i think that entry level rotel gear can handle 4 ohm loads and reasonable priced parasound gear makes a point of advertising as "high current". |
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New member Username: LouderplzVirginiaBeach, VA USA Post Number: 8 Registered: Aug-05 | what do you think about the Outlaw 2200 mono amp (7)Outlaw claims 200 watts 8ohm 300 watts 4 ohm |
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New member Username: LouderplzVirginiaBeach, VA USA Post Number: 9 Registered: Aug-05 | the pressure from the wife is increasing to make a choice. Tell what you think Outlaw 990 (7)Outlaw 2200 mono amp Rotel RC-1055 5 disk cd player Denon dvd-955 Infocus SP5000 projector |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 327 Registered: Mar-04 | hmmm... that doesn't sound promising. the outlaw has plenty of power, but magnepan recommends amps that have twice the power at 4 ohms than at 8 ohms. 200-300w is only 1.5 times the power. maggies might stress that outlaw amp out. if you really want it, contact them and ask if it's reliable into 4 ohms. i think i'd go with either an NAD amp or better yet parasound. check specs out for rotel. i think it might handle 4 ohm loads better. haflers are available cheap, and alot of people were swearing by them with maggies. |
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New member Username: LouderplzVirginiaBeach, VA USA Post Number: 10 Registered: Aug-05 | How about this set up. All of this for less than 5000. NAD T973 7-Channel Power Amplifier NAD T773v2 (use as preamp) A/V Receiver NAD T572 5-disc DVD/CD changer NAD C542 CD Player |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 330 Registered: Mar-04 | well, you'd definately have a matched set of components. if that's important to you, NAD would work, but i'd stick with the rotel CD player. you really don't need a seperate DVD and CD player. i'm at the lower end of the budget spectrum, but my onkyo 5 disc DVD player totally stomped my old sony CD player's sound playing CDs. using a reciever as a preamp only is overkill too. just use the reciever as a reciever. i'm pretty sure that NAD has at least a 100wpc reciever. remember too that NAD conservatively specs their amps for 3dB headroom. if you were going to use a reciever as a preamp only, then get the cheapest model. there's no reason to pay for amps you don't intend to use. an NAD rated at 100wpc is really the equivilent of 200wpc as most other makers don't allow for headroom. NAD T773 (320 wpc at 4 ohms!) and a DVD player should be all you really need. you don't have to go spending money on redundant products. as an AV reciever, you could easily get away with using a cheap DVD player. panasonic has really good video performance, and seeing as you'd be feeding your reciever a coax signal, you could use the NAD's D/A converters. my onkyo DVD player sounds noticeably better with a dollar store video cable feeding my onkyo reciever's internal D/A converter even if i feed the reciever line in through $30 monster cables. if you're using a widescreen HDTV set, you might want to look into upsampling DVD players. they take a DVDs 480 lines of resolution and add data to turn it into 720 or 1080 lines of resolution. if you really want "the ultimate" CD sound quality, instead of getting that $1000 extra amp you were considering, look into a benchmark dac-1 for the same price. everyone seems gaga over this D/A converters detail retrieval and "undigital" sound. a cheap panasonic DVD player for movies and a cheap 5 disc CD changer with coax out would let you budget your system where you'll get the biggest improvements. let the NAD and benchmark do the audio "heavy lifting" you could even get away with one player feeding both DACs, but you'd have to use inferior optical for one of them, or split the coax out to feed the reciever and DAC, but i don't know how well that would work. there's your options from simple to state of the art. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 527 Registered: May-05 | Eugene - I've heard a lot of good things about the Outlaw monoblocks you mention, but have no personal experience with them. Outlaw has a message board with a lot of people who have the monoblocks. You could look through their posts to see if anyone has used them with the maggies, or start a thread over there. I'm sure someone who uses them on a daily basis should be able to answer a few questions. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 331 Registered: Mar-04 | here's a sample review for a panasonic DVD player http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?print_page=y§ion_id=3&article_i d=870&page_number=4&preview= and another one http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=123 #PanasonicDVD-S77%20(HDMI) i'd seen panasonic players getting alot of thumbs up at another audio forum. you might also want to consider a "universal player" so that you can get access to the higher resolution formats SACD and DVD-A. i'd suggest against spending alot of money on a player as eventually they'll break. when i had my onko 5 disc changer repaired, it cost me $120 (paid $200 new) and didn't have progressive scan which is now on even $80 players. in less time than the 1st repair... it's already starting to get fussy again as something else seems to be wearing out. it's just more practical to buy a cheaper player and replace it when it breaks. besides, eventually parts will become unavailable for any given model, but a really good DAC like the benchmark should have a long life. a $1200 marantz universal player has sound in the same league as the benchmark, but i'd rather go with the DAC-1 and a cheap player to avoid eventual repair costs. besides... HD-DVD is just around the corner. by the time you get your old player repaired, it will be outdated. LOL |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3999 Registered: Dec-03 | I am using the the Outlaw mono blocks and prior to that I used the 7100. They will provide you with enough pwoer for your maaggies. |
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Bronze Member Username: LouderplzVirginiaBeach, VA USA Post Number: 11 Registered: Aug-05 | I end up buying the NAD T163/T973 pre/pro combo, the Rotel RCC-1055 5 disk changer and the pionneer ELITE DV-59AVI dvd player. I have yet to hook it up but when I return from Afghanistan I will let you guys know how it sounds. And thanks for all the help |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 332 Registered: Mar-04 | with maggies, you'll definately have satisfying sound. it's definately a respectable system. just remember, maggies are real fussy about positioning. you'll have to move them around alot to find the best sound you can get, especially imaging, but what you have will need no apologies and will blow the mind of any guests used to "shelf systems" and car stereos. even my NHT superzeros and onkyo gear amazes visitors, and i'm jeaulous of YOUR system. LOL BTW bernie, it isn't just how much power you feed maggies, they also need an amp that can handle a 4 ohm load. 1.5X power at 4 ohms isn't really a 4 ohm friendly amp. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 341 Registered: Mar-04 | wandering around a few other forums... there seems to be a big buzz around innersound aplifiers driving maggies as they were designed for similar high current/low impedences of their own electrostatic speakers. $1500 for a stereo amp is way out of my price range. the price for innersound monoblocks makes me shudder. LOL if it's the last thing i do, i'll find the best $500 amp to drive maggies! i FINALLY found a mention of adcoms and maggies... user said it was a hrash combo. too late for this thread, one maggie 1.6 owner really liked his sound with outlaw monoblocks. hmmm. they aren't high current amps, but he was getting good use out of them. as ugly as they are... i might end up going for a hafler amp. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1662 Registered: Feb-05 | The Hafler Transnova 9505 and 9500 work very well for Maggies. Anything less in a Halfer won't do the trick. You can find these used for around $500-600. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 345 Registered: Mar-04 | yeah... but like most hafler amps... the transnovas are rackmounts aren't they? man do i hate the looks of rackmount gear outside of a rack. visual appeal is very important to me. i like simplicity best. i'm still trying to get some unbiased opinions on cheap norh and ird monoblocks which sound promising, but the people in norh forums seem almost like cult members. LOL for what it's worth, there is ALOT of maggie specific info at the planar forum... http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/bbs.html definately check this site out for alot of concentrated info on everything electrostatic and planar. even before i get my MMGs, i'm planning on getting custom stands and upgraded x-over mods like auricaps and air core inductors. i might join that site even if i hate the slow loading (two minutes per reply) tree style and start a "budget amps for maggies" thread amidst a large group of hardcore planar users. even outside of used, HCM electronics has had alot of great deals on hafler refurbs. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1667 Registered: Feb-05 | Most of the info on MUG hasn't been updated since before I owned Maggies. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 992 Registered: Jun-05 | Well Budget if you dont spend the dough on the Maggies they damn sure wont have the go,and $500 is the most extremely low amount you even wanna think about spending on them.Eugene check out www.odysseyaudio.com,they also have their own forum their are many members who drive Maggies on their amps,they are absolutely the best deal for amplification going you can get. The Khartigo Amp for $775 and the Estiban Passive preamp for $350,you also get a industry best 20 year warranty and upgrades to your amps and preamps,and a life time 100% trade up policy,just the best stuff going for the money and heres a nice little secret they will blow away most high profile named amps and preamps on the market enjoy! |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4008 Registered: Dec-03 | budget-minded, the monoblocks that I was recommending are 4 ohm capable. And yes I am aware of the maggies requirements  But that is beside the point, Eugene has his purchase and if he is happy with it, that is all that matters. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 346 Registered: Mar-04 | hey bernie... without rereading every reply... was that in regards to outlaw amps? i started a thread that's gotten ALOT of feedback, and at least a couple people ARE driving maggies with outlaws and not have to move in with their inlaws when they blow up. i guess just because magnepan says it, doesn't mean it's written in stone. as to driving the heck out of maggies... that's something i have no intention of ever doing. i only listen at moderate levels. some of us live in apartments afterall. LOL besides, i'm not into loud anymore. you want a MUG update... here's feedback on alot of the cheaper amp alternatives for maggies for anyone still shopping: Audio by Van Alstine (AVA) Omega 260III really grabs maggies and makes them behave. a 2nd party agreed AVA is a good match and yet another person said they had warranty problems. their gear gets great reviews for neutrality. Linn LK280 was one person's reference. no notes on sound quality Hypex UCD180 (DIY kit) $500 pr. monoblocks. (class d?) poster called them big bang for the buck amps IRD & Norh monoblocks the poster that recieved 2 different sets of components in their LA II monoblocks still likes the sound, and compares them to Bryston except in the bass and when pushed hard categories. Outlaw Audio isn't high current rated, but several people are using it and enjoying music without it blowing up. LOL Jolida JD1501 & JD1501RC seems to really be a popular amp. 100wpc tube integrated. plenty of power on maggies. Crown DC 300A got mentioned in the used market Adcom one person is happy with adcom, while another likes the dynamic slam, but says they can get a little harsh on maggies B&K ST-202 or EX442 high current designs on used market great top to bottom integration. not as dynamic as adcom, not as bass foreward as NAD, but more refined in the bass with a "liquid midrange" Acoustic Reality eAR202 $600 250wpc no comment on bass. user was using them on tweeter panels and at least liked them for upper octaves and reviewed them as liquid midranged. might be class-d. definately sexy chrome slabs. PS Audio 2C Plus 140wpc @ 4 ohms ~$500 used no comment on sound quality used them for 10 years and upgraded to AC Magnum A50 special edition monoblocks Sunfire Signature owner didn't want to part with it. a magazine review for an AVA amp claimed they were similar, but the AVA had a little more treble refinement PSE a "wonderful amp" whatever that means. another keeper from the Sunfire owner Carver 220 same person again called it neutral, but it must not be as special as the PS or Sunfires... get rid of the weakest link... right? Harman Kardon/Madrigal Citation 5.1 & 7.1 HT recievers jointly designed with madrigal labs. limited edition? owner is happy with both and claims they can take 4 ohms without biting the dust Parasound HCA1500 or HCA2000 200-300wpc @ 4 ohms user has had no problems with them. was a top contender in my ecoustics thread for treble refinement and transparency. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 4014 Registered: Dec-03 | yes I was talking about the Outlaw Audio. Again it is a moot point, the original poster of the thread has made a decision. |
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New member Username: Lasermark4Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-05 | Eugene-- I recently went with NAD T163/T973 with my Martin Logans all around (Aeon i, Aerius i, and Theatre), and I am more than please with their sound and performance. These NAD's rock and will feed any level of demand required, and run totally cold to the touch at any level and outout. I did a side by side comparison with the P5 Anthem, and heard virtually NO difference. These separates are very musical, not bright, and I can't say enought good about them. Hoping you are enjoying yours as well. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 442 Registered: Mar-04 | man do i love the sound of my panasonic sa-xr55... so much so that i'm not going to spend more money on MMGs now. i never would have guessed that my zeros were nearly as liquid in the midrange as planars if not quite as fast. it's ironic that the reciever that i bought to accomodate planars has ended the very goal i bought it for. oh well. |
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Gvenk Unregistered guest | For people who may stumble on this thread, the MMG-W and MMG-Cs are very different from the rest of the Maggies in requirements and sound (but not on the imaging which is the primary reason to get them). A few points to consider: 1. Any experience with MMGs or bigger Maggies will NOT translate into a similar experience with the MMG-W and MMG-C. So do not extrapolate from there. 2. Mixing MMGs and MMG-W and MMG-C in a multi-channel set up is very difficult to get it right unless you resort to a receiver with automatic equalization like what the Yammies have and even then it is not satisfactory. Manually, it is quite tedious. In addition, trying to drive all of the above with the same amp is even more crazy because what works for the MMG may not work for MMG-W and MMG-C and vice versa. So I doubt you will get anybody going crazy about a particular amp in such a set up although there may be a few barely satisfactory solutions. 3. The MMG-W and MMG-C have no bottom end (below 100hz), so don't worry about the bass characteristics of the amp since you are likely to be using a powered subwoofer (even with the MMGs for HT use). Their midrange will sound very tinny and harsh without a good amp and so need to be mated to a high-current amp that also has excellent transient response and preferably a warmer than neutral pre-pro. Just equalization will not help here. 4. It is much better to use several pairs of MMG-Ws in a multi-channel setup than use MMGs and even MMG-C (which is really not very good). If you mix MMG and MMG-W, then it is better to use a separate amp for the MMGs as L+R and another one for the MMG-W/Cs as surrounds to mate it properly. 5. The B&Ks are probably the best choice for the MMG-W and MMG-C in a H/T set up but they are way too expensive for these speakers. The B&Ks with MMGs gives a dull sound. 6. The best budget bet is probably the Adcom amps. Adcom amps are good in terms of being able to drive the MMG-C and MMG-W properly (can drive down to 2 ohms and have excellent transient response for detail) and even the 75W/channel (at 8ohms) Adcom amps are good enough for these speakers. But then you need a warm pre (and not the Adcom pre-amps). I haven't figured out what will work here yet. 7. The problems with NAD multi-channel receivers doesn't give much confidence in their reliability to be used as the amps. In addition, the neutrality of NAD in the mid-range actually makes the MMG-Ws and MMG-C and to a certain extent even the MMGs sound rather weak for H/T use. They sound OK but just don't give the theater feel at low volumes and cranking up the volume just makes your ears hurt. A very old Nakamichi Stasis amp sounded better on the MMGs than the NAD. So my conclusion is that the MMG-W and MMG-Cs are great value for the money but require a lot of budget for the amplification and so if you consider the total cost, not so great for H/T use. But then you just cannot beat the aesthetics of and the imaging from these speakers for flat planel video set ups hung on the wall. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 497 Registered: Mar-04 | i'd disagree. i used to think that, until i got my panasonic. i already OWN an NAD reciever, and hate it like poison. it's treble sounds like my superzeros are hiding in a sleeping bag. it wasn't at all detailed and the image wasn't too specific either. i liked my onkyo alot better, but it couldn't do 4 ohms, but the panasonic (which can) spanks the daylights out of either one by a huge margin. i IMEDIATELY got a rush the first second my SA-XR55 was on. i heard more detail than i ever heard before. my system immediately crossed 1/2 the gap to the sound of the MG12s i'd heard except for ultimate speed. the things that panasonic class-d does so well: awesome treble detail and speed. hard percussion instruments have much better attack even on my silk domes. there is no grain at all in panasonic. even if i put my ear right next to my tweeter, i can't hear any spit at all. i thought all tweeters did that up close before. bass is much tighter and deeper than my onkyo. NAD does bass very well. i'll give them credit for that, but i'm a speed and detail freak... warm and i don't get along. dynamics have ALOT more impact. tracks that i thought i knew startled me a few times when there's a sudden crescendo. imaging is AMAZING, for the first time ever in my system, images have broken free of my speaker boundaries. the center image is much wider than it ever was on the onkyo and a bit more precise. the trait that instantly floored me and was the most dramatic though is the midrange. it's so full, detailed and silky that it isn't even funny. i never knew my zeros had nearly the ability to sound as good as maggies in the midrange, but the first time i heard a femal vocal on my panny, i fell in love with it. the whole time that i was blaming my speakers for being too polite and forgiving, it has been the amplification. the panasonic is super detailed, yet relaxed at the same time. it's as if the reciever weren't even there. i've heard people call them bright, but to my ears... it's slightly warm. it might sound brighter if i cranked it, but i listen at low volumes. panasonic kicks major butt in the low level resolution department. i can finally hear low level dialogue when watching movies at night without straining. i might not have the top to bottom speed of maggies, but i have alot of the midrange magic with a much better image from my superzeros. they're pulling the disappearing act of so much better now. i have no doubt that a panasonic class-d reciever would make a great AFFORDABLE match for MMGs. it's an astounding bargain, and i've seen more than one person swear by the combo. some day, i still might get MMGs, but for now, i'm happy with the tons of top to bottom, side to side congestion that my SA-XR55 has cleared up. i would have sprung the extra $50 for an SA-XR70 with HDMI had i known i wouldn't be using the panny to eventually biamp maggies via analogue ins from a behringer DCX2496. |
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Gvenk Unregistered guest | I am not sure what you are disagreeing with since neither of us have the listening experience of a Panny and a Maggie combination. Panny making your other speakers betters may be true for you but irrelevant to the Maggie discussion (and not relevant to the original post - it gets a little tiring when Panny cultists inject such orthogonal discussions into any possible thread). The sound stage from a flat panel speaker cannot be reproduced by a box speaker (at least not in the affordable range) simply by changing the amp. It is more a result of the sound reproduction geometry not of amplification. If you are claiming that the Panny makes box speakers have the same soundstage as the Maggies, then you really haven't heard the Maggies properly or you are smoking the Panny grass a bit too much. Again this is not to discount that you found an improvement in your speaker set up using the Panny. Having said that, I am open to Pannies doing well with the Maggies, just haven't had the experience or reliable reports from people who aren't into the cult. If someone has a direct contribution of driving Maggies with the Pannies, by all means, please post your experiences (preferably without the religious extrapolation). |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 204 Registered: Dec-04 | Gvenk..Panny grass is only a religeon in Jamaica, mon. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 503 Registered: Mar-04 | i've HEARD maggies seperately from my reciever. i've also read several people's reviews that love panny/maggie marriages. as to imaging... sorry, my superzeros will spank a maggie any day. if imaging is your top priority... nothing beats minimonitors. even with my onkyo reciever, my superzeros still were more image specific than maggie MG12s. i'd say it isn't as much imaging that maggies do so well, it's their ability to sound so much more realistic which migh be thought of as another form of imaging. i found MG12 images to be a little blurry. i'm used to an image where you can precisely pinpoint a sound, the MG12s didn't match. they make everything's position sound a little more vague and generalized. the tonal realism totally makes up for that though. even if you can't pinpoint exactly where something is in the soundstage, planars still do an excellent job of conveying that "you are there" realism. if my panasonic made my superzeros sound nearly as good as maggies on $1500 class A/B amplification, then it would surely have to elevate MMGs even further. speed, detail and ease plus more of the same sounds like a great combo to me. no, i haven't used the two items together, but i have experienced them seperately and can picture how they'd compliment each other the same way i can read ingredients on a menu and picture how a dish will taste. by all means... visit audioasylum's planar forum and look for threads with panasonic SA-XRs in them. one member loves his MMG SA-XR50 setup. oh... make me do your research for you why don't you? paris scott is using them as rear channels http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/5803.html jim of oak creek has a few reviews of his system here and there. http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=74124&highlight=panasonic&r=&ses sion= http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=79966&highlight=panasonic&r=&ses sion= http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=87311&highlight=panasonic&r=&ses sion= http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=75409&highlight=panasonic&r=&ses sion= http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=74248&highlight=panasonic&r=&ses sion= i'm having a hard time finding his in depth reviews, but this comment definately gets to the point http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=88527&highlight=panasonic&r=&ses sion= a long review more about the panasonic http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=amp&n=60070&review=1 gmood1 has used them with 2.5s http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=64029&highlight=panasonic&r=&ses sion= a general SA-XR55 review http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=ht&n=21791&review=1 a general SA-XR50 review http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=amp&n=45944&review=1 the point is... all of us "panny cultists" aren't making anything up. class-d kicks much hiney from the "lowly" $30 sonic impact battery powered "class-t" all the way up to $20,000 halcros with flying moles, bel cantos, jeff rowlands, Acoustic Reality, Nuforce & hypex DIYers etc. in between. class-d amps are way better than A/B. you can chose not to believe it, but until you try them for yourself, you'll never know. it's hard to get info on an item that's still audio underground, but those of us that do own panasonics are trying to get the word out. most people that own maggies own the $1000+ models and are likely to have "high end" high current amps or tube amps too. maggy/panny mating is exactly mainstream, but feel free to ask jim of oak creek about his combo. i couldn't find the specific reviews i was looking for, but he stands by the setup. whenever i rave about my panny, i'm not trying to trick anyone. honest! it just sounds so much better than NAD or onkyo in every way. i don't find mine bright either, but i listen at ow volumes, so i'm really into the whole low level resolution aspect more than anything. that, and the freedom from grain. i'll NEVER buy anything but class-d ever again unless something better comes out. p.s. bang for the buck is DEFINATELY a mission for me. i became a hi-fi freak when a friend's tiny little $120 infinity minimonotors trounced the daylights out of larger $1000+ speakers i'd heard for speed, detail, freedom from resonance and imaging. after that, i KNEW that big expensive speakers were just a scam. "nam myoho renge kyo" |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1185 Registered: Jun-05 | You really have a vivid imagination,i KNEW that big expensive speakers were just a scam.You are the biggest character on this forumif you beleive that a pair Aerial 20Ts,Dali Megaline,JM Lab Grand Utopia,or a pair of Kharma 3.2 Monitors are a scam you are out of your mind dude! |
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Gvenk Unregistered guest | I didn't say imaging, I said sound stage. One simple characteristic in which Maggies excel is the height of the sound stage that is very difficult to reproduce with non planar speakers regardless of what amp you use (multiple speaker arrangements inside a cone can approximate it but can never get close to it and using multiple speakers have their own secondary effects) because it depends on the geometry of how the wave forms are generated not on what the amplifier supplies to the speaker. This is why I think you have not experienced the Maggies well enough to make your statements. "if my panasonic made my superzeros sound nearly as good as maggies on $1500 class A/B amplification, then it would surely have to elevate MMGs even further. speed, detail and ease plus more of the same sounds like a great combo to me." That is a good hypothesis to test but not to make conclusive statements on. The reality is that in in audio such extrapolations rarely ever hold true for a number of reasons some obvious and some not so obvious. "no, i haven't used the two items together, but i have experienced them seperately and can picture how they'd compliment each other the same way i can read ingredients on a menu and picture how a dish will taste. " Sorry audio doesn't work that way. Anyone who has been listening to audio equipment for a while knows this as a fact of life. This is the kind of statements that makes one vary of panny cultists. The links you have posted have statements like "I have no experience with those Maggie models.But I do use one on some 2.5Rs. It's works pretty well in my room.I sit maybe 10 ft from the speakers and it powers them quite well.I ran some freqs test on them the other day.I have useable bass down to 30hz in my room.These little units are very high rez. This can be good and bad depending on your selection of recordings. It should work on those models without trouble." I have no doubt that the Panny can put out music through the Maggies without effort and Maggies make most amps sound good but that is not the same thing as an amp making the Maggies sound as good as they can be. Again, I am not making the statement that Maggies and Pannys are a bad combination because I have not heard them nor read any credible review one way or the other but I am a little wary of these cult claims of having found the "true religion" and that has nothing to do with price of equipment. There are as amny cultists with $10k equipment as there are with the Panny. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2160 Registered: Feb-05 | Stay wary Gvenk. I gave the Panny a lengthy test drive and it was like taking a stock Ford Escort out on a Formula One course. Put another way "it stinks". I've not heard worse. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 509 Registered: Mar-04 | well i like the sound of $1000 maggie MG12s on similarly priced gear BETTER than the sound of $20,000 B&Ws on equally expensive mc intosh gear and don't care who i whizz off saying it. those overpriced bloat boxes couldn't match the speed of maggies ANYWHERE except in the last octave of treble. the maggies walk all over them in the bass an midrange. i'm not knocking aerials. i wouldn't mind owning a pair myself, but they aren't worth 20K... no way! the very first time i heard hi-fi, it was on a friend's pair of tiny $120 infinity 2 ways which spanked the daylights out of EVERYTHING that i'd heard up to $4000 klipsh speakers locally and even original B&W 801s out of state which were really spitty in the treble (although it could have been the early digital causing the cringing). i don't care what anyone thinks... the sheer top to bottom speed, freedom from resonance and holographic imaging from that styrofoam tweetered 2 way setup was the first time i heard anything hifi. it was then that i knew how evil ported speakers really were and that big woofers slow bass down to a crawl. i didn't get a gut massage, but i FINALLY heard bass POP with the speed it should from those cheap speakers. aerial 10T speakers should be $1000 minimonitors and $500 subs... not $20k ripoffs. expensive gear can be nice, but it isn't worth the sick prices that it sells for. you can believe me or not, i don't care, but the first time i heard $20K B&Ws, i wasn't impressed with them, i was impressed with how much of that sound my cheap little zeros captured with BETTER imaging. i'll give the B&Ws the nod for treble speed and extension, but my midbass is so much faster that only maggies top it from what i have experienced first hand. i looked and looked. i can't find jim of oak creek's more detailed maggie/panny comments, but i know that i read them. i ALSO know that my panasonic reciever endowed my "lowly superzeros" with ALOT of the magic that i heard out of maggies. i still don't have THAT much speed, but i have nearly as sweet a midrange. if a reciever can make cones and softdomes sound much more like planars, then i believe it would mate nicely to such speakers for the same reason. a great amp on a great speaker (as long as it can handle the load) is going to be better than a match where either component is junk. you know that's true. it just seems to me that some elitists have knee jerk reactions to cheap gear. i know i'm in a full scale knock down dragout in another forum against a lying butt neo fascist bent on discrediting ANY gear cheaper than his. cheap gear CAN sound just as good as expensive gear. my $200 NHTs spank $1000 B&W 2 ways except in the frequency extremes, but my cheap DIY acoustic suspension sub walks all over those vulgar ported bastids and compensates for the bass end where my zeros can't go. ported speakers are an abomination! it took a tiny $120 pair of speakers to teach me that. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2184 Registered: Feb-05 | I owned the MG12's and wonder what BM's been smokin'. Nice speakers but I'd take 800D series B&W's over them anytime. I wouldn't mind owning Maggies again as a second speaker that I could bring out of the closet to play from time to time for a change of pace but they simply aren't versatile or accurate enough to use as a main speaker over the long haul. "it just seems to me that some elitists have knee jerk reactions to cheap gear." If you mean folks that pull our own weight and don't live at home with our folks I guess I qualify. Other than that I am a poorly paid civil servant who likes a good deal as much as the next guy. however I'm not going to spend any amount of time trying to convince myself that junk sounds good so that I can feel better about my lot in life. BTW I owned NHT's (Super Ones and Zeros) as well. NIce sound but very inefficient. They also lack midrange detail no matter what you power them with. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1215 Registered: Jun-05 | They certainly wont spank B&W $1000 2 ways you must be smoking something,I dont own a speaker that wont stomp those measly Superzeros in the ground quit overating those speakers, you are the only person in the world that even would say the silly things you are saying.And Quit giving all the newbies this far fetched advice,and please stop overhyping those superzeros,they are not Rogers,so stop trying to make them into a classics or some kind of world beater.My Epos 12.2s will put those little Minimites to shame in every musical aspect,so stop trying to make yourself beleive these rants and more importantly stop trying to make us beleive it,if you want to keep living these lies fine we dont go on this make beleive ride with you! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 291 Registered: Dec-04 | Don't make me pull over! |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 292 Registered: Dec-04 | Lemmings. If you kids don't shut up, I'm going to drive this thread over the next cliff! |
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Unregistered guest | Hello all Want to try a pair of Magnepan (MG 3.0) in music only system. Building from my past equipment. I want to salvage Aragon 28K (version one) pre amp. Plan on new CD (NAD 542) and power amp (Marsh 400s) What do you think of choice of equipment? Also need suggestion for MM/MC phono to be used with Thornes belt driven TT as Aragon 28K has no phono section. Any suggestions for interconnects and speaker wire? (All RCA I/O) Current equipment is Acrus A-250 power amp; Aragon 28K pre;Marantz 450SE CD; Platinum Audio "Trio" speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 521 Registered: Mar-04 | i LISTENED to the gear i talk about. the B&Ws were carefully positioned and running on 10s of thousands of dollars of mac gear and didn't impress me that much. they did have better treble speed and extension and a little bit more ease at high volumes, but my "lowly superzeros" weren't humiliated by them, especially in the imaging department, but the maggies (placed impromptu facing away from a corner WITHOUT measuring) had so much more speed and ease that they worked for me. quit saying "i don't know what he's smoking" because i haven't smoked ANYTHING in 2005. quit being an idiot. stick to the FACTS or STFU. i don't know who's butt your thumb is up. the FACT is there's no way $20,000 B&Ws can move 50Hz impulses anywhere near as fast as MG12s can. i'll bet you a $100 here and now. maggies will waterfall all over those big heavy echo box (ported) 12" kevlar woofers. i'm sure that maggies would also move a ton more air in the midrange too. i've NEVER heard a B&W that's blown me away the way small acoustic suspension and planar speakes can for speed and freedom from resonance. "bip bip bip" all you want. that's what my ears like. your comments would be just as foolish to someone else who thinks that only single drivers and horns sound real. what... they aren't entitled to their opinions either? only you are right and are appointed the god of audio? get a freakin' life! my priorities and yours are different get over it and quit being a dweeb about it because you're insecure and can only feel good about yourself by condescending to someone else you pathetic waste of skin. talk about the audio... quit turning it personal because you're an insecure momma's boy. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2228 Registered: Feb-05 | "there's no way $20,000 B&Ws can move 50Hz impulses anywhere near as fast as MG12s can." No but those B&W's sound an order of magnitude better. I used to own the MG12's and listened to the B&W's yesterday. Sound...that's what matters. "quit saying "i don't know what he's smoking" because i haven't smoked ANYTHING in 2005. quit being an idiot. stick to the FACTS or STFU. i don't know who's butt your thumb is up." Real good. Just the facts right? "my priorities and yours are different get over it and quit being a dweeb about it because you're insecure and can only feel good about yourself by condescending to someone else you pathetic waste of skin." Nice. Get over it...yeah. Write us again when you grow up. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1243 Registered: Jun-05 | This guy is high on his weed and pills,which brings to mind since you enjoy getting beamed up how could you be in the right mind to know what sounds fast and what doesent?look druggie boy,Paul was right about one thing before he departed from this forum,you are the Forum Druggie,which explains your silly useless rants.So come back when your not zooted,and your sober enough to quit making all these Fantasy Island claims,me being a mamas boy nah I was raised by my dad.Yeah you really need to get that girl problem asscesed to,its quite evident you live at home with your mommy,grow up,and get a job,and then you wouldnt have to be Budget Minded,their is no free lunch in audio you pay for what you get,and their is no free lunch in life,quit getting high all time and you will figure that out. |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 528 Registered: Mar-04 | you are an insecure momma's boy who thinks the only way to make a point is to open your big fat mouth with trash talk. you hate yourself so much that talking down to people is the only way you can feel good about yourself. you're a pathetic little momma's boy. again... i haven't smoked anything in 2005, live in my own apartment and don't even talk to my psychotic mom. regardless, i don't need to talk down to anyone except useless insecure punks who have serious self esteem problems. you're so insecure that you need to compensate with expensive gear... ooh i'm so impressed. i bet you compensate for your little manhood with a big SUV too. pathetic pathetic pathetic. you're incessent need to compensate for your inadequacies is actually funny. you talk like a little boy in a schoolyard bragging whose father is tougher. as to you art... sonic pririties come in different flavors. if you like the big dynamic sound of B&Ws, that's you, that's fine, but you're a flat out liar if you dare to say that B&Ws are as fast as maggies anywhere but the last octaves. what sounds good to YOU isn't what sounds good to someone else. you're being an elitist by trying to act as if your opinion is the only correct one. are you too threatened by anyone who disagrees with you? i'm not. everyone is entitled to their opinions. but anyone who has to be a sphincter about it needs to be eradicated from the face of the planet. i wouldn't knock someone who thinks that bose is the greatest thing in the world. that's their opinion. talk about the gear, and not the people whose opinions you disagree with. if you can't do that... look in the mirror before you tell someone to grow up. i won't start with anyone, but when someone starts with me, it's on. by the way, if anyone needs a clean urine sample... i've got it right here. |
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Shawides Unregistered guest | Im just setting up my audio, and have a bose 901 VI speakers. What is the best amp/ reciever to use with them. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1323 Registered: Jun-05 | Wow BG you must reallly be high I've stated several times what kind of cars I own,and a SUV isnt one of them.So you can just add a new supercharged Probe GT to that collection 11/30/2005 the dat i bought it,maybe that will give you idea.Stop walking around a all woozy and you wouldnt have to walk arouund with urine on you,grow up man and start getting a lot more mature,before you know it you will still not be married and be 60 and still high and immature. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 635 Registered: Dec-04 | I thought Budget responded to the substance abuse issue already. Sounds like a straight shooter this year. And good for him. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1326 Registered: Jun-05 | Oh yeah how so Nuck? anyone who compares NHT superzeros to $20,000 B&W 800 Signitures is high,all the bogus claims he has been making coming from someone like him who knows audio,is a bad substance abuser,and Nuck if you wanna be his savior go ahead,and I Will be right here waiting on your coments to. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 645 Registered: Dec-04 | TW, opinions are like solid waste discharge orifices; everybody has one. Be it misguided or questionable, there it is. And I still support someone who has exorcised some demons, or seems to as far as I can tell. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1328 Registered: Jun-05 | Aparently you havent been reading the Rubbish BM has been saying to everyone and to the newbies,well I guess with your recent actions you would back him,and im not talking about his damn demons,so quit trying to change it into that. |
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Silver Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 654 Registered: Dec-04 | Thats all I'm referring to TW, and nothing more. Please reread. Anyone who has exorcised some demons is worthy of some support, and I will offer iy, regardless of audio. Wrong forum, but maybe I should post a new thread 'There but for the grace of good walk I' And you can pound on me for the review thread, I have layed it out and stand by it. Any recovered or troubled friends ever stand by you Tawaun? End of sermon. Season of peace |
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