|
Bronze Member Username: LovegasolineNYC Post Number: 46 Registered: Jul-05 | I've got some cheap Sony headphones (MDR-CD666) that a friend gave me and I'm finding that I spend more of my time listening with them then I would have thought possible. After poking around on the web Grado phones (among others) keep asserting themselves and seem to be given high praise in a variety of places (unless it's the Stereophile Hype Effect in full bloom!). Would phones like the Grado SR-60, or even the SR-125 be a viable for a system like mine...a mid '80s Yamaha A-700 (100watt) integrated amp? My listening interests are widely eclectic, but rockmakes up the lion's share of it. The reference source I've been hitting as my audio equipment 'primer' doesn't go into headphones as much as i'd like. Amplification circuits for phones is still somewhat a mystery to me and I see stand alone headphone amps...is that because the circuitry for the headphones is either excluded entirely on some amps or exists merely as an after-thought? |
|
Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5399 Registered: May-04 | Headphone amplifiers have become popular as the desire to have music without intruding on other people's privacy has increased. Good headphones will reproduce with clarity and low distortion what is available from your source; just as good speakers will. Just as good speakers require a decent amp in front of them, so do good headphones. Most of the headphone pre amps are pretty miserable afterthoughts in the designer's mind. If you open the cover on the Yamaha, I think you can even identify the IC that feeds the headphone jack its signal. Good headphones played through a good headphone amplifier will offer better resolution of the signal than what you have now. How much better is for you to decide against the extra cost. If this is going to be used strictly in your home, I would suggest you look into a tube based design. |
|
Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 827 Registered: Sep-04 | Lg, Grado headphones have a clear punchy approach that lends itself well to rock. They're accomplished at other genres as well, but they are particularly good in the rock stakes. The SR-60 is a fine boppy unit that is great fun. The SR-80 is the same with more resolution and the SR-125 is the same again. The SR-60 comes with soft felt pads. The 80 and 125 come with harder pads. Personally I prefer the pads on the 60s. You can get the pads for 80s and 125s too. All that said, headphones are a very personal choice because different people prefer different types of headphone from a comfort angle. The Grados are comfortable, but if you don't like headphones which sit on your ear (supra-aural, as in the Grados) as opposed to those which envelope the ear (circum-aural, as in Sennheiser) it doesn't matter how good they sound. they must be comfortable, otherwise you won't use them. Circum-aural brands of note are Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser. Generally, circum-aural speakers are easier to get used to and both the Sennheisers and Beyerdynamics are good brands, although I'd probably plump for the Sennheisers since they have such excellent backup service and their latest set of products are really good, although their older models left a bit to be desired when it came to rock. Another thing to bear in mind is that there are open-back and close-back headphones. Close-back headphones are designed not to allow any sound out when being used. These are used a lot in noisy environments (DJs) and also in very quiet environments (libraries, in the home for domestic harmony). Open back headphones tend to sound better than close back ones (although some close back phones are very good indeed, such as Sennheiser's SP25). Generally, open backs give more space and air with everything feeling a bit more open and fluid. Close backs literally sound more enclosed generally! Of course, everything Jan said is true too. A decent headphone amp goes a long way to helping the sound you'll get. One of the best value for money headphone amps is the Project HeadBox which also allows you to run two sets of headphones with independant volume control. One to look at if you decide to go this route. Regards, Frank. |
|
Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5405 Registered: May-04 | Be warned. If you listen to headphones extensively, you will find it incredibly difficult to find a pair of loudspeakers you like. Everything that is not secured to your cranium will sound muffled, slow and lacking in resolution and clarity. Damn those room reflections!!! |
|
Gold Member Username: DmwileyPost Number: 1004 Registered: Feb-05 | Sennheiser or Grado. Anything else is a compromise. |
|
Silver Member Username: TpizzlePost Number: 334 Registered: Apr-05 | i just purchased a pair of AKG-K 26P headphones, arguably the best for rock right now due to their accurate (and suprisingly deep) bass response. i spend hours researching headphones, then came across an online company called Headroom. they are the #1 retailer to headphone magazine. suprisingly they were located in my home town so i drove down and sampled all their headphones. the grado 60's are Headrooms acclaimed "favorites" for under $100, but they have an oldschool look to them thats not too appealing. plus they are not sealed so outside sound can get through. i then tried on a few sennheiser's. their cheapest model ($20) sound awesome but were too big for my style and didnt produce bass which is a must for me. as you start getting into sennheisers more expensive models you start to experience unbelievable surround sound, but an amp is also needed for these since cd/mp3 players dont get loud enough. Headroom customly makes headphone amps ranging from $150-1000. they hooked me up to Sennheisers 500 model with a $1000 amp and my mind was emmersed with perfection. no question the sound i heard would blow any $20000 home theater to shame. but i didnt have $1500 for headphones so i went back to the cheapos. i then tried on the famous Bose noise-cancelling headphones, probably the worst move anyone could make for $300, they sound great but for $300 sennheiser makes better. i ended up purchasing the AKG's since they were sealed (better than noise-cancelling) and had large bass. my recommendation to you is to call Headroom, these guys will explain anything and their prices are the best on the net. |
|
Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 283 Registered: Jul-05 | I have to say I enjoy my Sennheiser HD280's. They are a sealed model that do a pretty good job of blocking outside noise and sound pretty good. They don't have extremely deep bass, but they aren't bad by any means and are fairly detailed. I got them from Costco for ~80 bucks after a short listen to them. The other problem with headphones is that is very easy to turn up the volume VERY loud. Beware of hearing damage... |
|
Silver Member Username: DiabloFylde Coast, England Post Number: 235 Registered: Dec-04 | Your Yamaha headphone output circuit is okay for occasional low-level listening. Very few built-in headphone sockets will give good sound. It will be a ten cent IC chip which will distort at high volumes and give poor transients at even resonable levels. I was looking round for a headphone amp last year as my (now obsolete but still okay) Sennheiser HD570s need more power than standard circuits provide without clipping. I'm not convinced that there are any good 'phone amps which will fit in with your budget. My favourite, purely from reviews, was a Graham Slee model. But the cost put me off it. A homemade headphone amp is now on end of the long list of things for me to work on when I eventually manage to get my soldering iron smokin'. Here's a few sites which caught my eye - http://www.goodcans.com/HeadphoneReviews/ http://www.head-fi.org/ - worth digging around on this site http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/1817/Audio_Amplifiers_Headphone_Amplifiers.ht ml http://www.audioreview.com/cat/headphones-home-audio/headphone-amplifiers/PLS_27 51crx.aspx http://www.gramophone.co.uk/mainforum.asp?messageSectionID=33&threadID=24989&typ e=chrono and of course, the in-house resource for links - https://www.ecoustics.com/Home/Accessories/Headphones/Headphone_Articles/alpha.ht ml |
|
Silver Member Username: DonaldekellyWashington, DC Usa Post Number: 393 Registered: Jul-04 | yeah, Head-fi.org is where you will find more info than you could ever want on headphones. Headroom is a great site - they are painfully honest about some of the headphones they sell. A great first stop to learn. Also, www.headphonereviews.org has easy to digest info Like speakers, there are some you can rule out based on other people's reviews, but mostly you gotta listen to a few and see for yourself. Grado vs. Sennheiser, and different Sennheisers sound somewhat different. Think about open vs closed. I needed closed so that ruled out a lot of phones. I ended up with some Audio Technica A900s. Not with out their flaws, but pretty good sound for about $200. The Senn HD280s are good as well and can be modified for more bass. And for walking around I got some Westone UM2s. very small (fits in a small mint can) and nice sound. Used for $260 or so. A good place to buy is on the for sale threads at head-fi. |
|
Bronze Member Username: LovegasolineNYC Post Number: 47 Registered: Jul-05 | Lots of good info and also good site references. Maybe I should take Jan's comment to task...and pursue the research and auditioning for phones, but hold back on the actual purchase of phones until I make a speaker selection and purchase. If I get decent phones now, I'll probably listen to my system through them day in, day out, and that'll only exacerbate the already difficult task of settling on a pair of budget speakers (perhaps I should also resist the temptation to satisfy my curiosity and be led deeper into the guru's inner lair to sample one of the REALLY hi end setups that these NYC audio dealers have). I'm getting ahead of myself here and Diablo, you're probably right about headphone amps being beyond the reach of my system budget. OTOH, Iike your idea of a headphone amp as a DIY project......it's been a couple years since I've got the iron going myself. If you come across any interesting plans by all means post them. In another direction, these little things kept popping up on ebay when I was browsing: http://www.tangentsoft.net/audio/cmoy-tutorial/ Looks like a tiny portable headphone amp for an ipod or portable CD. |
|
Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 5433 Registered: May-04 | Let me add, if you are going the route of a dedicated headphone amp, pick the headphones first. Like regular speakers and amplifiers, headphone amps are designed to operate into a specific impedance load. One problem with the built in headphone jack you have on the Yamaha is it is designed for Yamaha headphones. I'm sorry, but I don't remember the impedance of the Yamaha phones of that time. But, as with any other circuit, if there is a mismatch of impedance output to impedance load, the actual impedance of the headphones you use will have an effect on the sound quality you achieve. An eight Ohm headphone connected to a 250 Ohm headphone output will suffer from the mismatch. Ask the salesperson to guide you to the best combinations or make certain whatever you buy or build matches your needs. |
|
Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 296 Registered: Mar-04 | headphones offer MUCH better bang for your buck than speakers. even $20 headphones dig deeper in the bass than many bookshelf speakers up to $1000 or maybe even more. headphones have a couple of advantages... they're only one driver, so they don't have any crossover components to degrade sound and don't suffer from phase distortions caused by multiple drivers. at one point, carver actually made a home speaker called "the amazing louspeaker" that was really just 40 or so headphone drivers in a vertical row. headphones also have much flatter frequency response than most speakers. the BIGGEST drawback to headphone listening is the "hole in the head" sound you get. a company called "headroom" specifically makes headphone amps that have phase circuits that have been reviewed as making headphone listening much better for improving imaging. there was a company called "immersa and lake" that was going to produce similar amps that would simulate listening to two speakers binaurally. binaural... is an important word for headphones. MANY consider the sound of binaural recordings (dummy heads with microphones in the ear) to be the absolute most realistic recording format as binaural recordings capture all of the spacial cues for "true 360 surround sound". if you're going to do headphones... check "the binaural source" out. i've done home recordings with a pair of PZM mics (bought for binaural recording on the cheap) taped to the sides of a sand filled 3 gallon kitty litter bottle about the size of a head to great effect. sounds such as cars driving by lose some of their localization in the center, but left to right, the sounds are super realistic and sound like they're far away to the side and approaching. some highly respected headphone brands not mentioned are: Etynomic in ear phones which you can even get custom fit for your ears or buy $100 standard units. these have been highly reviewed. in ear phones are not recommended for binaural recordings. Sony has gotten some serious raves for their top of the line $300 headphones. stax (electrostatic) phones have often held a reputation as "the best headphones in the world period"... at $1000 and up... they should be. LOL sennheise HD580 and HD600 have gotten many great reviews and are considered the reasonably priced standard. HD580s used to sell for $350 (which the 600s do now) but can ba had for $100 or so less these days. and beyerdynamic makes some great sounding phones but seems to be off the reviewers radar. when i nearly bought a $100-$150 pair of phones, i liked beyerdynamics better than similarly priced sennheisers and grados. in fact, i hated grados and their annoying swivel mounts which might make for more wearing comfort, but are a pain to put on and take off. as mentioned... there is a serious chance of damaging your hearing with heaphones if you're not careful. hope something here helps. |
|
nout Unregistered guest | Give me speakers anytime, even if they sound much poorer than headphones. Headphones remain artificial in comparison with speakers, the music is played directly in your head, although most headphones are designed to give you the impression that there's a large space between your ears and the phone's speakers. But having said that, I agree with budget minded that Beyerdynamics make great headphones, pleasant sounding, not as clinical as many Sennheisers. I didn't like the HD 580, 590 and 600, they sound like they try to be more neutral than possible, every charm, insrumental colour and warmth is taken away, as if an orchestra of robots is playing digital instruments. The HD 570 however sounded great, I think it is called "the Symphony". |
|
New member Username: Uncle_festerTransylvania Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-05 | nout, I'm listening to classical music on HD570s as I write. They are good, but I generally prefer to use my speakers. The ideal way of listening to music is to have dummy head binaural recordings played through headphones. However, music doesn't tend to be recorded that way. It is mixed to sound best through speakers. When using 'phones, it is a good thing if you are able to mix the channels a bit. Gives a better impression of reality. Not usually an option though. |