Proper guage wire for new setup
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New member Username: DrumlixPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-05 | First of all, hello. I hope i'm posting in the correct forum for this. Anyway, I just bought a 800 watt 5.1 system last week. I'm currently using the stock wires and wanted to know what gauge wire would be optimum for this wattage. I need only a few feet of wire for the fronts (70 watt X 2) and center (260 watts) and around 35 feet for the rears (70 watts X 2). Would a thicker wire bring about slightly more volume (i think it could be louder). I would like to put something besides the stock wire on there but am just unsure exactly what kind and gauge I should run. thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 256 Registered: Jul-05 | http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable This site has a good wire table to use. I would suggest using the 2 ohm load figures to be conservative. The max power figures of your system aren't of real concern as to what wire size you should use. |
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New member Username: DrumlixPost Number: 2 Registered: Aug-05 | wow... i just saw on my stock wires that it's 22 gauge, and i'm using 35 foot! jumping to 12 gauge seems like a pretty big jump, what exactly would i expect to hear different from this? is 12 gauge really a good size? is it alright to use the same gauge wire for the shorter length sections, or should i also use a thinner wire for those? |
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Anonnnn Unregistered guest | you should get the 48 gauge you will be amazed! You can thank me later,only experts in greatness here,lol |
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New member Username: DrumlixPost Number: 3 Registered: Aug-05 | uhh, you're kidding right? |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3619 Registered: Dec-03 | He gave that very same advise here https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/157273.html Ignore the troll, it will probably go away. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 258 Registered: Jul-05 | "i just saw on my stock wires that it's 22 gauge, and i'm using 35 foot! " Yeah that is about typical for a HTIB. "jumping to 12 gauge seems like a pretty big jump, what exactly would i expect to hear different from this?" Yes indeed it is a huge jump. Realistically you could probably get away with thinner wiring, but as I said, it is being conservative. If you want you can contact the manufacturer of your system and ask what the lowest impedance of the speakers is. You can then use this figure for the load. As for what happens when you use too thick or thin a wire, I'll defer to the explanation on the site. Mr. Russell does a fairly good job with this. Keep in mind though that it does depend on the speaker itself. " is 12 gauge really a good size?" It has its pros and cons. Its big, thick, ugly, and hard to work with. But if you have low impedance speakers, it is the conservative choice to make. Again though, consult the manufacturer to see how low your speakers go in impedance. You will likely be able to get away with much thinner wiring. "is it alright to use the same gauge wire for the shorter length sections, or should i also use a thinner wire for those?" Makes no difference. |
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New member Username: DrumlixPost Number: 4 Registered: Aug-05 | ok. the impedence of my speakers is 4ohms. btw, here is a link to the one i bought (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7120046&type=product&productCatego ryId=pcmcat40200050002&id=1109234042715) i was thinking of getting 14 gauge, as i dont mind the thickness (it's wired under the flooring and behind couches, etc) i'm simply going by the chart: 4 ohms, with a maximum of 40 feet would put me at 14 gauge. i apologize for the dumb questions but this is my first HT and want to make sure i can optimize the sound. would this gauge provide any increase in volume? thanks! once i confirm these questions i'll rewire it today. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3622 Registered: Dec-03 | It will not provide any increase in volume. 14 guage will be adequate for your needs, just make sure that it is not running parallel to any power lines or close to any. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 259 Registered: Jul-05 | "i was thinking of getting 14 gauge, as i dont mind the thickness (it's wired under the flooring and behind couches, etc) i'm simply going by the chart: 4 ohms, with a maximum of 40 feet would put me at 14 gauge. " You should be good to go then. "i apologize for the dumb questions but this is my first HT and want to make sure i can optimize the sound. would this gauge provide any increase in volume? " There are no dumb questions, at least not that you've asked anyways. As for the volume: the power lost in wiring is minimal, so you won't really gain any significant volume. "thanks! once i confirm these questions i'll rewire it today. " Good luck and enjoy! |
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Bronze Member Username: Frostyda9Calgary, AB Canada Post Number: 37 Registered: May-05 | #16 is fine, there's no way those specs are true RMS power figures. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 260 Registered: Jul-05 | "#16 is fine, there's no way those specs are true RMS power figures." Do tell. Like I said it isn't really about how much power he is running through the lines. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frostyda9Calgary, AB Canada Post Number: 41 Registered: May-05 | "Do tell. Like I said it isn't really about how much power he is running through the lines" My bad. @ 8 ohms #16 would have been fine. 4 ohms, twice the current, #14 wire. I'd go for some flat wire too, if it's going to be under the floor ;) Power doesn't matter? According to that then, it's ok to run a 500 watt stereo amp to hungry 4 ohm speakers 6 feet on either side of the amp, using a #22 wire to each speaker? Because based on the resistance, the chart tells me that's ok ;) Maybe that's just my chart though. It doesn't make a stipulation for the wattage of the speakers, and hence the current that will flow through the wires. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 264 Registered: Jul-05 | "Power doesn't matter? According to that then, it's ok to run a 500 watt stereo amp to hungry 4 ohm speakers 6 feet on either side of the amp, using a #22 wire to each speaker? Because based on the resistance, the chart tells me that's ok ;) " Aww Frosty, its so nice of you to twist my words around. Perhaps you feel that Panasonic has packaged wiring that cannot withstand the power output of their amplifier? Ryan, does it look like the insulation on your wiring is melting away??? As for your 500 watt stereo amp with 4 ohm speakers, resonably well insulated 17 gauge would be more than sufficient. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 2161 Registered: Jan-05 | speakers 6 feet on either side of the amp ------------ LOL...or be like eddie, and place them 3 feet apart |
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Bronze Member Username: Frostyda9Calgary, AB Canada Post Number: 42 Registered: May-05 | DA, wasn't trying to twist your words. However, if the stock wiring is sufficient as you point out, why is there any discussion here at all, and why are you recommending #14? Because there is a difference between sufficient and ideal ;) Just because 17 gauge wouldn't go up in a cloud of smoke in our hypothetical 250 WPC system, does that mean you'd actually use it? |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 265 Registered: Jul-05 | "However, if the stock wiring is sufficient as you point out, why is there any discussion here at all, and why are you recommending #14?" Just because wiring can handle the raw current doesn't mean it won't negatively affect the sound of the system in other ways. I might suggest you read the article which I posted which does note the effects of too thin a wiring. However, I do concede that if the original poster is happy with the stock wiring, there obviously is no pressing need to upgrade. "Just because 17 gauge wouldn't go up in a cloud of smoke in our hypothetical 250 WPC system, does that mean you'd actually use it? " My Dyson vacuum uses 17 gauge cord. It handles a whole heck of a lot more power than 250 watts! Actually for a long time I happily used #16 line cord which isn't exactly much of a jump from 17. However, I also have fairly short runs ( > 15'), so RLC was kept in check. I did recently move to #14, but more for peace of mind and looks than actual improvement in sound quality, of which I noticed 0. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frostyda9Calgary, AB Canada Post Number: 43 Registered: May-05 | Me: "if the stock wiring is sufficient as you point out, why is there any discussion here at all, and why are you recommending #14? Because there is a difference between sufficient and ideal ;)" You: "Just because wiring can handle the raw current doesn't mean it won't negatively affect the sound of the system in other ways. " <br><br> Sound familiar? |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 267 Registered: Jul-05 | *shrug* The reason to upgrade still has nothing to do with the ampere capacity of the wiring, which was what you suggested in your original post. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 268 Registered: Jul-05 | "#16 is fine, there's no way those specs are true RMS power figures." Sound familiar? Since #22 is obviously able to handle whatever true RMS power figures Ryan's system is putting out, power capacity of the wire isn't going to be a factor in why he should upgrade. It isn't a case of sufficient versus ideal. Either it works or it doesn't; although there are several reasons why it might not work. The wiring could overheat and melt the insulation or line resistance becomes too high and introduces audible distortion. Either way, the solution is to jump to a higher gauge wire. In this case it wouldn't appear that the ampacity of the wire is a major issue. According to most if not all wire guides however, the line resistance will introduce problems. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frostyda9Calgary, AB Canada Post Number: 44 Registered: May-05 | "It isn't a case of sufficient versus ideal" Yes, it absolutely is. Panasonic has tested those wires on that system and they work. They are sufficient to do everything that the system requires. There is no possible reason to upgrade them unless the system can be imporved; which would confirm that the configuaration was not ideal from the factory. For all we know, that extra half ohm of series resistance could be what's keeping the amplifier from delivering too much current and overheating itself. My *original* post had this intention: bigger wire is better because it has less resistance. Going from 22 to 16 is a good jump. 16 is obiquitous, you can find it everywhere from the audio store to the grocery store. It is the best value for the money. Seeing as the system works with #22, 16 IMO is the best upgrade with regards to cost involved. |
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Bronze Member Username: Frostyda9Calgary, AB Canada Post Number: 45 Registered: May-05 | *ubiquitous lol, sorry I can't spell. Is it just me, or is the the only forum that doesn't have the option to quote the previous posters :oS A whole lot of copying and pasting going on... |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 269 Registered: Jul-05 | "My *original* post had this intention: bigger wire is better because it has less resistance. " Then word your posts better, lest it sound like "he only needs 16 gauge wire because it probably only puts out 50 watts not 800. If it did put out 800 then he wouldn need 14." "#16 is fine, there's no way those specs are true RMS power figures." You have to admit that this is a somewhat shady statement that can be misinterpreted. In any event, this conversation seems to be meaningless babble and semantics. Have a good evening. |
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New member Username: DrumlixPost Number: 5 Registered: Aug-05 | folks, stop arguing, lol! i already installed the new wiring yesterday. everything went great. thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 270 Registered: Jul-05 | Enjoy Ryan. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3657 Registered: Dec-03 | Way to go Ryan! Now go to your listening area and have fun |
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New member Username: DrumlixPost Number: 6 Registered: Aug-05 | lol, i've already been enjoying it, alot! definatly nice in my opinion for a htib. having the dual subs (260 watts) really makes the room rumble, plus its also very attractive looking. |
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