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Unregistered guest | Well, this is my first post here. I'm in a bit of a bind. I just upgraded from a standard 3 way stereo speakers to a sub/sat speaker system and lo and behold, my current receiver (which was purchased in 1984) is woefully inadequate for the job. Plenty of power, but, there is no sub pre out line from the receiver. Since I am locating the sub to the back of my room opoosite from where my stereo is located, that will mean runing two sets of wires to the sub and two sets of wires from the sub back to the front speakers. Something I can not really do and still maintain pleasing asthetics given that I am running 2 additional sets of wires to the rear of the room for the surrounds. So I have been researching receivers. One of the things I need is a phono input as I have a huge vinyl collection and well sometimes nothing beats placing that needle on the turntable and hearing the raspy blues of Southside Johnny Lyons. Unfortunately for me, it appears that phono inputs are now only included in top end models from Sony, Yamaha and Onkyo. I have basically limited my search to these brands as it appears I can get the most bang for the buck. It also appears that $450 - $600 is the magic pricepoint. I've pretty much resolved myself to one of the following models: 1. Onkyo TX-SR702 2. Yamaha HTR 5890 3. Sony STR-DE998 I prefer either the Onkyo or the Yamaha, but the sony is a good $150 - $200 less then either of the others so it bears consideration. Sound wise I have heard all three in less then optimal conditions at a local store. The speakers they will be driving are Polk RM6005 satelites and a 250 watt Sony SA-WX700 dual 10" digital Subwoofer. The room is an odd trapezoid shape of approximately 12' x 12' but it has a 20 foot cathedral ceiling. The floor is carpeted and it is located on the end of a 2nd floor condo unit. Now I obviously will never use all 100 plus watts, but seeing as the last receiver grew with me for 22 years I figure this one just might do the trick for the next two decades. I will use the receiver to play back everything. CD's, vinyl, FM, Cassette tapes, Digital cable TV, Digital music through cable TV, VHS hifi tapes, DVD's, and streaming computer music as well as home movies taken with both an analog camcorder and a digital camcorder. So here I am asking all of you gurus your opinions on the three choices above. For those wishing to suggest a 4th or 5th, by all means feel free, but I have looked at just about everything including HK, Denon, Pioneer, (what ever happened to Vector Research and Toshiba receivers?) Marantz, Technics, Fisher and Sherwood. Tell me your opinion or your experience. This is a must purchase very soon so I appreciate candor as well a prompt response |
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amonymousII Unregistered guest | I also share your frustration that phono inputs are limited to so few brands anymore. This is a problem for me also. The overall small number of inputs in general is a problem. HK has only 6 for example. I would add the Yamaha rx-v1500 to your list. It is basically the same as the 5890 but in a nicer cover. Can be had for under $550 mail order. Of the ones you listed I would stick to Yamaha and Onkyo. The 702 is a pretty good unit and will be fine with your Polks. Pick the one that has the features you want and you feel most comfortable with. Good luck. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1302 Registered: Feb-04 | Playing back vinyl? Do any of them have a phono input? |
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anonymousII Unregistered guest | Yes. The Onkyo does and so does the two Yamaha's. In fact the Yamaha's have 9 inputs. |
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Silver Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 209 Registered: Jul-05 | I've been happy for a few years with a less powerful Onkyo model, the TX-SR500. It has a good clean preamp section, sufficient power for my purposes, and reasonably neutral sound by my tastes. Assuming the 702 is an improvement, I would have to give my vote to the Onkyo. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1622 Registered: Mar-05 | If it must be a surround setup then I would choose between these, not sure if they have a phono input though: 1. HK AVR-630/435 ($500-600 refurb with full original HK warranty from Harman Audio on eBay, retails for around $1K) or HK 430/435 2. Marantz 5500 ($600 shipped from hifi.com, less from accessories4less.com Marantz-direct refurb) 3. Panasonic sa-xr55 ($250 shipped from amazon.com) a pure-digital receiver that has continued to get rave reviews by people with much pricier equipment and would be far superior to the Sony if you are looking to save some money...here are some threads about it you might want to read: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=1251&page=1&p p=10 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=530504&page=1&p p=30 My personal experience with Onkyo receivers was that they are OK for HT but very lacking for music; I ended up returning an Onkyo 601 for a Marantz 5400. I have not heard the Panny above but have heard a JVC RX-F10 which is also a pure digital receiver in the same price range and was stunned by its performance. HKs I have also heard in stores and never failed to be impressed by their SQ, much more so than Yamahas. However if you are willing to go 2.1 you can get even better musical performance from a $400 NAD 320bee. |
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anonymousII Unregistered guest | The above choices are all very good sounding but none of them has a phono input. No Marantz or HK has one. Shame on them, I say. These are old, formerly American brands that should have appeal to someone in my age group who remembers them from when we were growing up and would be interested in them again. Seems to me they are not interested in us older buyers. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1554 Registered: Feb-05 | Better to spend 129.00 on an NAD phono pre amp to go with a good receiver than buy a bad receiver because it has a built in phono preamp. Just my opinion. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3504 Registered: Dec-03 | I agree, you can't salvage a bad receiver. The NAD phono pre-amp is an excellent tool, you can always replace your receiver with a newer model without a phono input and you can always use the phono pre-amp with almost any receiver. |
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anonymousII Unregistered guest | Good point Art and Berny but for the money I would not say the Onkyo 702 or the Yamaha 1500 is not a good receiver. They are. Personally I don't think we should be forced to buy a pre-amp anyway, besides the back of my system is enough of a mess without adding another box back there. I realize for most people this is not an issue as they do not have as many components as I do but it is a pet peeve of mine. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3505 Registered: Dec-03 | Unfortunately it is probably a market trend. (My opinion as I have not credible data to back it up). With the digital age, the phono is probably going the way of the dinosaur and there is no more money to be made on turntables. And for us to enjoy our collection of vinyl, we either stick with our older equipment or pay more for what we want. I'm still hanging on to my Technics SL1200 Mk2 turntable. |
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anonymousII Unregistered guest | I have a Technics SL-1700 from 1978 that still performs perfectly. With my trusty Grado Blue cartridge I can still listen to analog glory in it's finest form. The thought that I could not listen to the hundreds of great albums from the 60's and seventies would be to much to bear. That's not to say I don't enjoy cd's but a classic album on vinyl is a different experience, to say nothing of the album cover itself. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 3511 Registered: Dec-03 | Wow the 1700! You gotta love those direct drives, they run forever. |
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Anonymous | chris-in-nj try pioneer vsx-1014-s cheap and wow... |
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Chris-in-nj Unregistered guest | Thanks for your insight thus far. Of course we all have our own priorities as well as wants, which is why so many brands are doing well. For me, I am living in a condo now. Space is at a premium. I already have a phono-preamp hooked up to my computer so I can burn CDs of my vinyl. I am slowly going through the 150 or so albums I have that are now in moratorium or were never issued on CD. Then I plan to go through and pick the best albums of the 300 or so that are remaining. Due to my apprent lack of vocabulary, I can not describe the sound differences I hear when I play a vinyl recording when compared to a CD. It's there none the less. Its certainly a warmer sound, but there is more and its just too intangible to describe. But I digress. I just don't have the room in my entertainment cabinet for a phono preamp. Hence my reason for shopping in the price range I am, instead of lower. I certainly don't need 100-140 watts per channel. In my current enviroment I would easily be accomodated by 50-65 watts per channel and probably could wake the neighbors with 20-30watts per channel. I actually had only budgeted $500.00 for speakers and after listening to various speakers, chose the ones listed above based on performance for price. I could not find a sub that truly performed like the Sony for less then $300.00 much less then the $199.00 I paid. Same with the Polks 6005's. I needed very small and discrete speakers. I tested Orbs, Anthony Gallos, Bose, Technics, Athena and others. Again for $199.00 these were the best performing in or near their price and equal or better to those costing more...again in my opinion. Based on specifications only I would say the Onkyo and Yamaha are ina dead heat. The Sony is lacking, however the great equalizer is price. The Sony is up to $200 less, so the question is, is the sound $200.00 worse? to answer that question I would have to buy one, bring it home and test it. Quite frankly I am not in the mood to do that. So I guess I am answering my own question. The specification and sound is important to me, so that means going back to the store and comparing the Yamaha and Onkyo again. I'm gonna have to pick a Monday or Tuesday evening so that its not too crowded with customers testing the way other systems blast rap music. Sheesh, ever try listening to the naunces of nights in white satin while one aisle over another stereo is being blasted with "I'm gonna Cap you...Cap you....Cap you! lol. Kinda makes me wonder just who will the audiophile of tomorrow be? I still have my very first receiver, purhcased in 1975. A Toshiba SA-725. It puts out a now minimal 25 watts per channel, but it does so at .05% THD and it weighs 38 pounds. No tubes, but no chips either. Its relegated to duty in the 3rd bedroom/den now. Its driving an equally old pair of Klipsch Heresy speakers. Takes up a bit of room for sure, but the sound is even sweeter then the day I brought it home. Again I digress. Do any of you have any first hand experience with either the Onkyo or Yamaha products listed in my initial post? What about the brands itself? |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 447 Registered: May-05 | Chris - Phono pre-amps aren't big at all. The NAD phono pre-amp is 5.31" x 1.38" x 2.76" (taken from their website). I don't think it'll be too hard to find a spot for it. It doesn't even have to be in the rack. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jorge59Rio de JaneiroBrasil Post Number: 38 Registered: May-05 | I wonder why nobody mentioned Denon receivers. From the 2105 up (now 2106, I guess), they do have a phono input. I have just bought a Marantz 8400 and really miss the convenience of a phono in. Too many analogs, digital, components and never-to- be-used inputs, but no phono. It's easy to add the pre-amp, but besides being extra expense, it's another pain in the neck to place, connect and so on. |