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Bronze Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 55 Registered: Dec-03 | i am trying to choose between these 2 players but i am looking at it from a slighty different angle. i am strickly looking for 2channel audio dvd-a, sacd and cd i was wondering if there was clear winner in this department. also if anyone knows anything about the dac's(audio) on these 2 unit's i can find the denon uses burr brown but nothing on the marantz. also iv'e seen on other websights a denon dvd-1400 but can't find much info. all i know is that it is a universal player. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 358 Registered: Dec-03 | The build quality of the Denon is definitely superior to the Marantz and it weighs about twice as much. The Marantz has an 82 db noise rating on DVD-A's, about 10% worse performance on noise than the Denon and a 81.6 db noise rating on SACD compared to The Denon's SACD performance on noise at 86 db's--over a 5% improvement over the Marantz. The Marantz has a 74.8 db noise rating, while the Denon a 75.8 db. The Denon beats it on every format--even video. The Denon is a killer machine at its price. Now whether the Denon is audibly better on most discs is doubtful, as most discs have an inferior noise floor. But on the best discs the Denon will definitely have an audible edge. It all depends on the quality of the engineering on the discs you play and the quality of your speakers. Whether audible or not, I always prefer owning the better made, the better performing, and the better engineered product. When components are similar in price, it is silly not to reward the better engineering and performance. The Denon really shines in showing how well DVD-A can theoretically play better than cd's. The 24 bit resolution and the codec is just far superior to the 16 bit resolution cd codec. |
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Bronze Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 57 Registered: Dec-03 | that actually was pretty much how i saw it. just wanted to make sure it wasn't me trying to find something that wasn't there. from all that iv'e been able to learn about these 2 it seems the denon is better at everything! which suprises me a little with all the talk of how well marantz puts the emphasize on audio. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 359 Registered: Dec-03 | I am always leery on those "high end" publications that talk about how the dvd and cd players sound when they do not "personally" perform any measurements. I think they go in with a preconceived bias to certain manufacturers and go from there. I remember years ago when Wadia CD players were getting rave reviews from the high end press and they were truly awful players. Most $200 cd players outperformed them. I think the high end press often believes the marketting hype without doing actual measurements. Maybe they liked the extra distortion the Wadia introduced. |
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Anonymous | For $600 you don't have much of a choice. You can pick Denon, Pioneer, or Marantz. If you like the Denon get it. I can say that I have had (and have heard of) bad experiences with Denon CD and DVD players. I would (seriously) open and close the tray on the Denon and compare it with other models. My guess is that the Denon will be in the shop a lot. |
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Bronze Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 58 Registered: Dec-03 | i have read quite a few consumer and professional reviews and this is the first i have heard of it. also i've had other denons in the past with no tray issues. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 367 Registered: Dec-03 | Everybody has a car brand (and it covers every car made) that they had trouble with and dislike. Same is true for any brand audio component, along with other people and things. Find me the sweetest and most beautiful woman in the world and you will find a number of men that can't stand her. One man's nightmare divorcee often becomes another man's sweetheart. Look at the number of people that view NAD receivers as The Holy Grail and others that feel it is the Demon Seed. C'est la vie. As far as Denon DVD/cd players, I had no ownership experience with them before I bought a Denon 2900 about 6 months ago. It is a tank. But I've owned other cd players and DVD players and never had problems with any of them either. I am strictly rating these sub-$1,000 universal players on MEASURED PERFORMANCE, which is a direct representation of engineering design, function, quality circuitry, and parts used. I discount opinion reviews heavily. I even discount the manufacturers specifications (unless they are verified by people that do ACTUAL measurements)-although I give the manufacturers specs more credence than opinion pieces on audio components. Opinion pieces are usually only useful to me when they address ease of use. I see so many opinion pieces with no measurements to back up any performance criteria that I glaze over. I find these to be borderline worthless. One high end magazine gave a DVD player the best component of the year. Yet its DVD-A performance was almost identical to its cd performance. A 24 bit DVD-A noise resolution should beat cd 16 bit by 10 db minimum to 20 db's on a excellent product. Go figure. |
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hedonio Unregistered guest | News to consider: Yamaha's new DVD-S1500 ($399) is capable of playing virtually any current digital disc audio/video format including DVD-Audio, SACD, DVD-Video, CD, VCD, JPEG, MP3, DVD+R/RW, DVD-R/RW, and CD-R/RW. Music lovers might enjoy that CD playback is upsampled to 176.4kHz while videophiles appreciate the built-in DCDi Faroudja processing and progressive scan video output. Built with a dual laser optical pick-up, video is handled by a 12-bit/108MHz processor while audio is decoded with a 24-bit/192kHz chip and provides outputs including DVD-Audio, DTS, and Dolby Digital. Overall dimensions are 2.70 x 16.25 x 12.75 (HxWxD in inches and the unit weights 7.1 pounds. |
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KenP Unregistered guest | I got the european version of Pioneer elite DV-59 and it is indeed a great if not the best universal player out there. I couldnt believe my ears when i first played Peter White's "Glow" SACD. It was so lifelike, its scary. And this is just using the analog i/o of my receiver. I have been told that I could get much better sound if I used a receiver or processor equipped with digital to digital (i-link) interface like some Elite receivers. Its no slouch on the video department either because it also has that HDMI (High Def multimedia interface) with 216 khz/12 bit D/A converter, Dual Pure Cinema Progressive and the list goes on. When using digital to digital interface, the s/n ration is 118db with 108 db dynamic range. The ultimate judge were my own ears because I sometimes do not care about specs and this one doesnt disappoint. It really sound that good. I am a bit sceptical about the improvement the i-link can give because just by using the analog, it already sound as good. For anyone looking for an alternative to the Denon, Sony or Yamaha- give this one a try. |
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Bronze Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 63 Registered: Dec-03 | well i just picked up the denon 2200 and let me say very nice. (both audio and video) $525 us locally. took it to a friends house who has a nice setup. aerial acousics speakers theta digital amp. and the pioneer elite 47avi plus an elite hdtv. and we both agree the denon sounds much better also so far they seem very equal on video. so anyone looking to spend $500 or less on a nice universal player can't go wrong with the denon. exceptional audio on all formats including cd's, and exelent video performance to boot. and just so were all on the same page here as far as i know you can't come out of your dvd player digitalaly with sacd or dvd-audio and have your reciever play it because it does not have sacd or dvd-audio dac's they are in the dvd player. |
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Jeff Kocher Unregistered guest | Kegger- Glad to see you like it.-Jeff |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 372 Registered: Dec-03 | Having 2 systems in my house I have both a Denon 2900 and a Pioneer Elite 47AVi. I later upgraded the 47AVi (for no particular reason) for the Pioneer Elite 59AVi. I found all three players to be excellent. The Pioneer Elites are excellent, particularly if you have an i-link Pioneer receiver, which can take advantage of the firewire connection. I don't think you can go wrong on any of them if you set them up correctly. |
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Unregistered guest | DVD-59AVI? Has any body heard anything on delivery or shortage problem's with this player placed my order 4 weeks ago and still waiting. I have the 49TXI receiver but no dvd player. I live in Huntington Beach California and purchased the player on the east coast and please don't say "that's my problem". Thank You W.J.DeVault |
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Kato2001 Unregistered guest | Hi I stumbled across this forum and thought I would add my two cents worth. I have done a fair amount of research on the Denon DVD 2200 and 2900 as well as other universal DVD players. To the best of my knowledge, outside of Sony, Denon is the only manufacturer that uses Sony's DSD decoder. The standard and Elite Pioneer universal players(and probably all other players)convert the DSD signal to PCM then send the signal to the receiver. My thinking is if you convert the DSD signal to PCM, doesn't it defeat the purpose of SACD? In fairness, I do know the Pioneer Elite players use the Burr-Brown DAC's(up to 3 depending upon the model) This may explain why the Pioneer Elite players sound so good. But it's not true SACD and that what you should get when you spend the kind of money these guys are asking for! Finally, Denon seems to be one the few players that has a bass management feature that most still do not have. I'm open to comments, suggestions and even corrections in my findings. Kato |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 130 Registered: Dec-03 | Pionerer Elite converted DSD to PCM in their first gereration players. I am pretty sure this is no longer the case. The DV45 on up do not convert DSD to PCM before the DAC stage. |
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Kato2001 Unregistered guest | Ben, I know that the Pioneer DV-563A still converts DSD to PCM. It's the Elite models that are not clear. I've looked up and down Pioneer's website for the DSD decoder-by either Sony or Philips-and there is simply no mention of them. Again, Pioneer clearly states that they use the Burr-Brown DAC's. so, if you have found otherwise, please tell me where I go to have a look at the info Kato |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 131 Registered: Dec-03 | I thought the same thing. Here is an article: http://www.audiorevolution.com/equip/pioneer_elite/index.html I don't think the DAC chip is important here (Marantz/Philips uses Crystal), it is how the data was read. The important piece is the DSD decoding chip. I think the 563A (end early Elite models) uses a MPEG decoder to convert the DCS signal to multibit PCM. The 2nd gen Elite models read and pass on the 1 bit DSD signal. I may be wrong... |
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BluBoy Unregistered guest | Just wanted to add a little something here. Many Marantz and Denon products are the same thing, as they are the same company. Marantz is Denon's 'high-end' branding, kind of like Acura is Honda's high-end. Many Marantz receivers are simply rebranded Denon receivers at a higher price point. I don't know if this is true of their DVD players though... See this website: http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp for inside info. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 590 Registered: Dec-03 | The research and development, production and purchasing, and financial activities of the two companies were combined. But the Denon and Marantz brand names will be maintained, as will their respective sales, marketing, and distribution operations, along with their separate product development. I am sure they will share some technology, but they will have their separate product lines. I certainly wouldn't say that Marantz is a high end Denon is not. Marantz doesn't make a high end receiver like the Denon 5803 and like Denons 5900 DVD player. I am sure Denon will glom on to some of Marantz's advanced wireless technology for gradual implementation into product, just as Marantz will use some of Denon's interlink technology. Harman Kardon Int'l owns HK, Lexicon, Mark Levinson, JBL, Revel, Infinity, and other audio/video companies. They share certain technologies, as Lexicon gives HK its 7-channel proprietary algorithm, but they all remain essentially separate. No doubt they all have advantages by buying more parts cheaper and sharing certain technological advances. Heck, I wish I bought HK stock 2-3 yrs ago. |
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New member Username: AphilPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-04 | does anyone know anything about the denon dvd 1400? i can't afford a 2200 yet! |