Trying to Resolve Strong Hiss (not Hum) from NAD T773
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Bronze Member Username: InviernoPost Number: 23 Registered: Feb-04 | I've had my new NAD T773 for a few days and, despite loving the sound, am having some concerns which may cause me to return it. I'd like to hear what people think I should try or what might be the root cause. And yes, I've reset the software, which is version 1.26. There are four separate issues I've run into: 1. T773 turned off in the middle of a movie, at low volume, with no errors shown. Turned it back on and it was fine and never repeated the problem. 2. Plugging in headphones does not shut off output to the speakers, as the manual says it should. 3. Hiss (not hum/buzz) from speakers. I would expect some hiss, but the hiss is audible about 4 feet from the speakers, which is a bit much. All speakers are effected. Turning the volume up/down (while a CD is paused, etc.) doesn't change the hiss, until I get to the last few DB (+2 to +12db or whatever). Then the hiss gets regular clicks and snaps. The hiss is not a problem from the listening position, but it is a problem sitting in chairs close to the speakers. The hiss was there with just the DVD player and the front speakers hooked up. 4. The hiss is also audible at a much higher volume from headphones, making them unusable. All components are powered from a Panamax 5100 power conditioner, which is plugged into a separate circuit used only for the sound system. I've turned off all lamps and such nearby as well. I'm assuming 1 and 2 are problems with the unit. I'm not certain if 3 and 4 are unit problems or problems with house power, though the Panamax and separate circuit should make that less likely. Suggestions on what might be going on? Suggestions on what to try? I'll be trying the T773 tomorrow with *everything* disconnected (not even a DVD player) and see what level of hiss it shows. I can take the unit back to the dealer and try it out there to see what I get, but it's a heavy brick to cart around. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. |
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Bronze Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 81 Registered: Feb-04 | There are plenty of threads here about such problems - check them out for advice. The real answer - take it back and don't settle for anything but one that works 100%. These receivers are excellent, okay there are a few that get released with problems, but you want and should expect one working perfectly for your money. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 436 Registered: Dec-03 | Invierno, Even with these newer T7x3 models there is already a history here of reports of similar problems. If you want to read more, I recommend you run "Search" with text strings such as "773" and "763". But My Rantz is absolutely right. 3-4 are definitely faults. Take it back! 2 could just be the headphone jack, but that should be easy to test. 1 could turn out to be a fault, too, if it recurs. |
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Bronze Member Username: InviernoPost Number: 24 Registered: Feb-04 | I mainly wondered if the hiss could be a problem with house power that the Panamax isn't protecting me from. I want to verify that it is not house power as well as I can before a return. I'll be taking the unit back because of #2 and #4 if nothing else -- I did try it with multiple headphones, all of which showed the same problem. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 437 Registered: Dec-03 | It is almost impossible for hiss to have anything to do with house power. "Hum", maybe, but hum is lower frequencies based on 50 or 60 cycles per second. Hum can come in from bad grounding in your system, or from radiated electromagetic fields. Hiss is probably noise generated by the electronics themselves, most likely involving the digital signal processor, when it will most likely be more pronounced in surround modes - even if present and still unacceptable in stereo. Don't worry that it is your supply. You can even try it with, and without, the power conditioner. But the manufacturer's job is to make a noise-free unit that works, and just with its own, internal transformer and power regulator. Contact dealer, distributor, or manufacturer, in that order, if not satisfied. It is under warranty. They really should be concerned, and ask you to bring it in. If you can hear it, it is a fault with the receiver, not with you. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 12 Registered: Mar-04 | This thread has lead me to some testing on my new T742. First of all, with just the receiver powered on and full volume I can hear the just the slightest hiss with my ear pressed to either of the front speakers. From 2 feet away I hear nothing. I don't consider this to be a problem. However when I turn on my Sony dvd player (a two year old mod NS915, cheap player I know), I'm currently using for music and movies), an audible hiss be heard with or without a disc in, beginning around half volume and increasing as I raise the volume. Its audible from across the room. Its attached to the NAD via a digital coax cable, and to rule that out I've swapped the cable and get the same result. Is it likely to be caused by cheap electonics/components found in the Sony? Or should I be concerned that something may be wrong with my receiver? I don't have, nor will I be getting any time soon, any other dvd/cd player to use as a test. Its not a major concern as I don't notice the hiss at normal music/movie levels, but just knowing its there doesn't give me a good feeling. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 26 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, what dB level do you mean when you say 'half volume'? Do you get the hiss when the DVD player is on or when it's on AND connected to the T742? FYI, I have a T742 and only get a hiss very close to the speakers at max. volume. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 438 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, Try: 1. Disconnect the Sony player from the T742 completely. Does the hiss still come when you switch the Sony on? If "Yes" it may be they are too close for comfort and the Sony is radiating the hiss. Possible solution: move them apart somehow. If "No":- 2. Is the hiss still there with optical digital interconnect (TOS-link) in place of co-ax? If you don't have an optical, get the cheapest, and shortest; they're all the same. If "Yes", go to 3. If "No" you've fixed it, and it was grounding/screening somewhere in the electrical co-ax itself, or one of the connections. In this case, it could just be it was the co-ax picking up a radiated field from the Sony, and co-ax would still be OK with another player. 3. Is it still there with analogue connections only? If "Yes" it is a fault, I give up, and it is nothing to do with interconnects at all (analogue and digital would never pick up the same sort interference). If "No" it is likely to be the DSP in the Sony sending the NAD hiss with the signal by any digital route. No guarantees but personally I'd give it a shot. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 13 Registered: Mar-04 | Smitty, going by memory since I'm at work now. Not sure at what dB I can start to hear it but by +18dB's it could be heard from 25 feet away without a doubt. I haven't checked it while disconnected from the NAD yet. I'll do that tonight. John A. I'll try your troubleshooting tips when I get home later today. I'm pretty sure though this Sony model doesn't have an optical out however. Thanks guys. |
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Bronze Member Username: InviernoPost Number: 25 Registered: Feb-04 | I did some more careful checking with everything else turned off. Still get reasonably strong hiss with no inputs, no sub, etc. I also discovered that the "Trigger" switch on the back has been pushed into the box so far it is not reachable, so it looks like the unit has had damage. I'll speak with the dealer today. |
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Bronze Member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 68 Registered: Feb-04 | Invierno, I've had my T773 for almost 2 months now and I'd say it has performed flawlessly. I use it daily. No humm issues. I can't speak for headphone issues as I haven't tried any out yet. I can hear a slight audible hiss when no inputs are active and I put my ear right up to the speaker. Standing in front of it I can't hear anything. Similarly, from the listening position I have to turn the volume up to about -3db to 0db before I hear a very slight hiss. Some here would consider and state that this a design defect. My dealer disagrees. He told me that theoretically this should be the case (absolutely no noise at all) but in reality especially in the 5.1 and up surrounds that there generally is some inherent white noise that can be heard and it varies dramatically even within brands. His claim was that the surround systems were more prone to this than stereo systems. He told me to go to dealers and listen to various brands and test this. This is his experience and what he told me. I wouldn't know any hiss was there if I hadn't read posts here about issues and tested to find if I had a problem. Also, my Yamaha RX-V2092 which this NAD replaced had a VERY audible hiss when no inputs were active. I didn't have to mess with volumes or what not to find it I just remember hearing it when I would turn an input off. This doesn't mean 2 wrongs make it right but tells me what I have experienced isn't unique to NAD at least with my set-up (I have the same Paradigm speakers I had with the previous Yamaha). I have had no humm, pop, or snapping noises at all. So this is my experience for what it's worth and agree with others that what you're experiencing doesn't sound right and should be checked out by the dealer. Good luck. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 14 Registered: Mar-04 | After further testing, here is what I find. First of all I misspoke, my dvd player is a Sony DVP-NS315, not a 915. With it powered on and attached via digital coax, I start to hear a hiss around -10dB. By around 0dB its quite noticeable, and by +18dB I can easily hear it from 30 feet away. With the Sony powered off, OR with the digital coax cable disconnected and the Sony powered on, there is no hiss. With only analog cables connected there is no hiss while powered on. There is no TOS-link output on this particular Sony model so I can't try an optical cable. My guess, and this is only a guess, is that the NAD is fine, its the el-cheapo Sony DVD player that is causing grief. Eventually I'll get something decent for movies, DVD-A's, etc...and move the Sony to an upstairs TV where it won't be digitally connected. Until then I'll make do with what I have. The NAD/PSB combination sure does sound sweet though. At times I wonder if I should have gone with a T752 (80 watts/channel vs. 50 watts/channel), but I think that's the old "grass is greener..." story, for me anyway. Thanks for the tips gents... Sem |
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Bronze Member Username: InviernoPost Number: 26 Registered: Feb-04 | I talked with the dealer and he's getting a replacement 773 for me and letting me keep the current 773 till it shows up. Interestingly I tried headphones on the 763 and 753 in the shop and neither of them turned off the speakers, though you can turn them off manually with the A/B switches. So that's just a documentation error (or a design error). If I leave the 773 off for a while the hiss goes down. Watch a DVD, or cable, or video for a while and the hiss slowly builds up, and stays up, even with the other components turned off. I'll do some further tests while I wait for the replacement. BTW, though NAD doesn't advertise it, routing the T773's multi-source out to it's back left and back right main in jacks gives you powered zone 2 capability. Nice since it lets you watch a 5.1 movie in one room while listening to a CD, with volume control, in another room. |
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Bronze Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 83 Registered: Feb-04 | Invierno, Pleased your dealer is doing the right thing straight away. Just a tip: test the replacement at the dealers before lugging it home. Good luck for many years of enjoyment with the 773! Sem What a great feeling to have sorted out your problem without having to return it. And nice to find the extra capability. Enjoy! |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 15 Registered: Mar-04 | Invierno, good to see you getting a replacement for a slightly defective NAD receiver. Unlike IAmCanadian and his problems with PSB. https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=65723#POST65723 Good luck with your new unit when it shows up. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 442 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, I think your conclusion is probably correct. But it is the combination of the Sony player with the digital co-ax connection that seems to be the problem, if I read you right. This suggests it could just be one of those rare cases where the quality of the co-ax interconnect will make a difference. It should be a 75 Ohm co-ax cable, well screened, with secure, screened RCA plugs at both ends. Also, as short as possible. If the one you have is long, you could try rerouting it, so its length is as far from the Sony as possible. Some exotic interconnects are made for people with money to burn and who believe you can defy physics. But cheap ones can act as a better antenna for the interference which good electronics should not be emitting in the first place. BTW if you're tempted to replace the player, NAD players seem to be going up in spec and down in price. As you know from another thread, I am very tempted by the new T533, which has DVD-A. Nothing wrong with the T742, I hope! It sounds like a new player would be a more effective way of spending money. Invierno, Keep posting. Good luck. I have an NAD 1000 stereo pre-amp from 1992, and that is not muted by a headphone jack, either, as the manual says it should. Never has been. Headphone sockets must be a blind spot for NAD. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 16 Registered: Mar-04 | Thanks John A. you're correct, Sony player - digital coax connection seems to be the problem. The two units sit about 4 feet apart so I had to get a 6.6ft cable instead of a 3 footer, http://www.unicornelex.com/newunicorn/detail.php?itemno=29-8792& I've tried rerouting it and moving it all around but the hiss is very consistant though not noticeable at low to moderate volume. I would love to get the T533 but I'm tapped out right now. Actually I'm kind of surprised my wife has followed along this far with a smile. She's actually deaf in one ear so trying to describe the benefits of a new dvd player, HT or even stereo music is kind of like describing a Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout to someone who can't taste. No offense intended of course. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 444 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, As before, I am with you, and then some. My kind, indulgent wife has some progressive frequency loss in one ear. Though, for movies and so on, she finds HT makes all the difference. Especially the center channel - it's good to rack it up a bit. Stereo is not so good. Thanks for the gratuitous reference to a fine beer I cannot buy in exile. Used to live in the nearest big city to the brewery. Just coincidence, of course. Morrell's, that's the stuff. Or Brakspeare's. Old Toby, finest ale in the South Farthing.... Looking at the link, I doubt if you will improve on that cable, so maybe you're stuck. That's a serious design fault with the Sony player, imho, unless something has gone wrong with it. Early CD players use to say "do not put next to radio tuner because of possibility of interference" so maybe that's just how it is. Seems the receiver is found not guilty, just this once! |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 27 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, Acutally, I was wrong about no hiss. After some testing I got similar results. Hiss starting around +0dB with the Sony DVD player turned on and hooked up via dig. coax. (3ft. AMC) with the T742 set to any unused input except the 5.1 direct inputs, there was no hiss on the 5.1 direct inputs or when the Sony DVD was turned off (well standby actually). I didn't try it without the dig. coax. but I do have an optical output on my DVD, so I may try that route. BTW, I then played around with my older pro-logic H/K AVR30 with no components connected. There I had no hiss in 'stereo direct' mode when an unused input was selected but if I used a DSP mode then a hiss started around 3/4 volume. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 19 Registered: Mar-04 | Smitty, did you have a chance to test your setup via the optical output? Just curious if that made a difference. I don't have an optical output on the back of my Sony but one thing I did notice. The hiss seemed to diminish at a rate directly proportional to the number of Oatmeal Stouts I drank. Although more testing is probably required, it may be less expensive to replace the Sony ;-) |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 30 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, No I haven't tried it yet. I'm literally days away from having my basement finished, carpet is being put down tomorrow, and I'll move my HT setup down there hopefully by Sunday. I'll finally be able to use my rear speakers & sub  . I'll give it a shot then and let you know. Oatmeal Stout eh? I'm more of a Keith's & Moosehead man myself although I have been known to enjoy the odd Kilkenny, Guiness or Beamish. What I notice is the music just gets louder and louder the more I drink ;). |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 38 Registered: Mar-04 | I picked up an inexpensive universal player yesterday, the Pioneer 563A. The first thing I did was to connect it to my T742 using only the digital coax, the same connection that caused a very noticeable hiss as the volume increased. With the 563A that problem seems to have vanished, this is good. I can now rest easier knowing the problem is with my Sony DVD player and not with the NAD. Smitty, Any luck solving your hissue? |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 38 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, Cool, I was thinking about picking up that player myself, although I'm debating holding out for an inexpensive 5-disc changer univ. player. I've just gotten too used to the convenience of having 5 discs. How do you find the regular CD playback compared to your Sony? Have you tried any DVD-A or SACD discs yet? I'm not overly concerned about the hissue. Oddly enough with the optical input from the Sony DVD player the hiss still happened(starting around 0dB and increasing with volume) on all unused inputs except the CD input & 5.1 input. I'm not really sure what to make of it but certainly no hiss is noticable at any of the volume levels I listen to, typically max. of -15dB on CDs and -5dB for DVDs. Good to know it's the DVD player and not the NAD though. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 39 Registered: Mar-04 | Smitty, I can imagine a multi disc changer would be handy, I never had one though so I guess I don't miss it. I just hooked up the 563A last night so I can only give a couple initial thoughts, see them at https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=71372#POST71372 My Sony/NAD combo problem was similar to yours in that I had to turn it up to higher than normal levels to hear the hiss. It just annoyed me that it was there at all. Did you get everything moved in downstairs? If so, how'd it turn out? |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 39 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, Sounds encouraging...pity it only comes in silver. I wasn't clear though how you found regular CD playback? Yes, I find any hiss annoying as well but I don't have any hiss on the inputs I'm using, when they're not in use (if that makes sense ), both 5.1 external and CD coax. Got it all moved downstairs, hooked up the surrounds for the first time, hooked up the sub permanently . I haven't had a lot of 'quality time' with my new setup yet though. I need to use a bit more volume since the room is larger than where it used to be. We rented that new movie (Rundown?) with the Rock & Christopher Walken. An excellent action flick with plenty of surround activity. I still need to do some fine-tuning and level adjustments, the right rear speaker may be too close to my listening position( less than 5 ft. away ). I might just spring for the Avia disc. I played around with various small/large settings and settled on all small even though my fronts are tower speakers rated down to 35Hz. Playing a CD through digital input in stereo mode I found the highs to be a bit lacking with the fronts set to large and the sub on. For instance, guitar strumming seemed to end a bit quickly rather than trailing off more smoothly. I actually preferred the 5.1 inputs over this setup even though the bass was not as good and the highs were verging on being a bit too bright. However, with the fronts set to small and the sub on I had the best of both worlds, clean highs and decent bass from the sub. I was surpised that I actually preferred this setup over the towers alone since I had the preconceived notion that I was 'wasting' the large towers potential with them set to small, and at 95dB efficency they shouldn't be hard to drive, but hey, it just sounds better! I sure am glad I spent the time to put insulation between the floor joists. The sound doesn't transmit upstairs, well except for the sub sometimes. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 40 Registered: Mar-04 | Smitty, Sounds like you've got everything setup the way you like. That's great. My setup is also in my basement. I studded/insulated the walls but not the joists - this was done around the late '80s, long before any thoughts of my having surround. So if things get too loud my wife CAN JUST....tell me to turn it down. No sub yet so I can't comment on that for now. No mention of regular cd playback because I didn't have time to try one yet. I'll post when I've had time to run some of my favorites through. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 54 Registered: Mar-04 | Something strange started last night when I wanted to watch a dvd. I turned on the T742 and then my Pioneer 563-a, (recon), and almost immediately head a high pitched noise from the front and center speakers. With the 563 off, there is no noise, almost like the problem I had above with my Sony. Today I did some basic troubleshooting in an attempt to find the cause. I have the two units cabled like this - 5 gold plated rca cables from the 563 - 5.1 analog outs to the 5.1 analog in of the 742 ( 5 - no sub yet). One digital coax from 563a to 742. I turn on the 742 then the 563 with a DVD-A disc in I get the noise for a couple seconds then it stops (I think it stops when the DVD-A is recognized - analog signal). with no disc in, the noise is constant. With a DVD-V (dolby surround movie), its constant and renders the movie unwatchable. I haven't tried it with a DTS disc yet. I tried a regular cd and strangely it behaved like the DVD-A, it stopped after a couple seconds. I reseated all my speaker connections as well as my interconnections (742-563a), with power off of course. No change. I made sure all cables were routed away from power cords, etc. Can anyone think of anything else I should try to help figure this out? I think I'll pick up an optical cable to help rule out the digital coax. BTW, this setup has been working fine for about 3 weeks, so I don't think its an installation bug. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 730 Registered: Dec-03 | You are having some bad luck, Sem. It sounds like the player is getting some noise introduced to its digital output. I don't know why or how. Certainly the finger of suspicion points to the cable. Is the noise there with CD digitally connected? What about SACD? It could be that an optical cable will fix it. Be aware that optical cables are ALL THE SAME, therefore the best value is the cheapest. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 55 Registered: Mar-04 | John A. Not sure that's completely correct, unless I have a basic misunderstanding of how this works, which is entirely possible But I do think, as you say, the noise is in some way introduced to its digital output. The noise starts as soon as both the 742 and 563a are powered on, regardless if there's a disc in or not. Using the OSD of the 563a to turn off the digital output stops the noise. But, using the digital coax connection I can play cds, both standard and DTS, without any problems, once they're "read" by the player. In other words the noise is constant until just before the cd starts to play,(to me, not a symptom of a bad cable). At that point the tone stops as the disc is read and then the music plays fine. I can even switch cds at this point with no problems. However, if I switch formats, DVD-A for example, the tone appears when the tray has been closed and until the player "reads" the disc, then its fine. Unfortunately, while watching DVD's the tone is constant throughout. I think this is the major point, though I'm not sure what would cause it. All this tells me that its probably not the cable, otherwise I think it would be happening during regular cds, played through the digital connection as well. To prove this I replaced the digital coax cable with an old, cheap cable with RCA connectors and the symtoms were exactly the same. Also, I hooked up my old Sony DVD player and although it still has the same problem above, there is no high-pitched noise like with the Pioneer. I haven't picked up an optical cable, as it just doen't seem like a cable issue to me. also, I don't have any SACD cds yet, so I haven't tried that. Though the 563a is a reconditioned unit, I bought it locally and it came with a 90 day warranty. Monday I'm going look into returning it to see if I can get a replacement or repair. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 737 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, Thanks. If you still have the old Sony player, you can check it isn't just something gone wrong with the mutichannel digital input/processor on the T742. But honestly I am stuck for further ideas. You describe the problem very clearly, so someone must have some experience of this, and be able to help. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 52 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, have you tried the other digital coax input on the 742? (I think it's labelled VCR). |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 56 Registered: Mar-04 | Smitty, Yes, I have. It behaved exactly the same way. John A. I hooked up the 'ol Sony and the high pitched tone (almost like a whistle), is not present. I does, however exhibit the original problem which made me replace the Sony - https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=69210#POST69210 a strong hiss starting around -10dB to 0dB and quite unbearable at +18dB. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 57 Registered: Mar-04 | Update to anyone who may be interested. Today I took my Pioneer 563A back to where I bought it http://www.audioclassics.com/ They spent a lot of time listening to the symptoms, but before sending the unit back for repairs, decided to hook it up to a (Denon) setup there. Lo and behold, no noise. The player performed flawlessly. All types of discs played without any annoying noise. Deciding the 563A was fine, I called Saturday Audio where I bought the NAD receiver. I spoke with Ryan there and explained the symptoms and what's been done so far. Without hesitation he said it sounds like a flakey DSP in the NAD and that he'll ship me out a UPS label to return my unit (at no cost to me), and upon receipt, will send me out a new T742. This is GREAT service, I feel. Looking back now, perhaps the loud hiss/hum I heard when using my original Sony DVD player, was not a defective DVD player but a problem with the NAD receiver all along. It just exhibits a different sounding noise, (hiss vs. high pitched tone), than the Pioneer. BTW, I hooked up my Sony again to have something to listen to while I thought the 563-A would be in the shop. Man, what a difference!! The Sony cannot come close to matching the Pioneer for sound on either regular cds or DTS. And with the Pioneer, you also get SACD and DVD-A, all for US$100-$150. So for anyone who wants to experience DVD-A and SACD, and do so for the cost of a very inexpensive cd player, this Pioneer would be a great option. At least while the SACD vs. DVD-A fight for supremacy is being waged. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 55 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, thanks for the update. I'm wondering if I should bring my T742 back to the dealer now since I have a similar hiss with my Sony DVD player at loud volumes. Let me know if the new one fixes the problem. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 757 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, All I can say is, I am interested to know how this shakes out. I thought we agreed, for some good reason, the original problem was with the Sony player. If a replacment T742 fixes it, I am pleased, but will not understand the original problem! Glad you are making progress. Please keep posting! |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 58 Registered: Mar-04 | Smitty, By all means, I'll update with a progress report when I get the new 742 from SA. I would not be surprised by a small amount of noise (hiss) in the speakers, caused by the receiver, but I think what I was hearing was excessive. I'll let you know if the new one is any better or not. John A, Thanks. I certainly am a bit confused about this whole thing. From everything we could determine, I was quite certain the 563-A was at fault. The guy at AudioClassics was talking way over my head, things like oscillators, and frequency levels... At that point my eyes kind of glazed over and he could have told me the moon phases were causing this and I would have believed him. That said, I don't feel as if he was blowing me off though as he did spend a good 30 minutes just trying different discs and a couple different receiver/speaker combos in an attempt to flush out the problem. In the end he said its up to me if I wanted them to send it out to the service center to have them go over it, (no cost to me). I told him let me explore the NAD first and we'll go from there. I also mentioned if this process with Saturday Audio gets delayed for some reason that it could eat into the 90 day warranty that came with this refurb Pioneer. He assured me not to worry about the 90 days, they'd stand behind it if the problem still exists even after the 90 days is up. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 759 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, It was the Mar 29 posts, above that seemed to exonerate the receiver. I suppose something could have happened to it, since then. Dealers have the advantage that they can do simple experiments by just swapping units, and quickly eliminate suspects. Of course the guy from Saturday Audio may also have this identified as a "known issue" with a T742. It sounds like Saturday Audio is a very professional operation. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 60 Registered: Mar-04 | John, Well with the Sony their was a hiss (sounding quite like a whispered "hisssss") gradually increasing to a more gutteral hiss at levels higher than 0dB. This sound was evident with/without a disc in the player. With the Pioneer, out of the box and for the first three weeks, the hiss was still present but at a MUCH lower level at comparable volume levels. Starting this past weekend, the high pitched tone, almost whistle-like, could be heard whenever the NAD and Pioneer were powered on (though it stopped as soon as the music started playing, but constant throughout dvd-v). The volume control had no influence on the tone - it was constant. Are the two related? I really don't know. But when I get the new T742 from SA, if the tone is still heard, I'm moving!! I do plan on attaching a note on the 742, detailing the nature of the failure and what components were connected to it to help the return center diagnose this. Though, as you say, it may be a known issue. Kudos to Saturday Audio. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 56 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks Sem! In my case it's something I can live with (hiss at levels 10-15dB higher than I ever listen to) but if it's a known issue I'll certainly want it fixed. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 764 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes, thanks, Sem! This one's got me beat. One good thing about this forum is that we can find our own known issues, and pass on others. If a maker has any sense, he will come here and find out what informed customers really think. Saturday Audio sounds great, and like just the sort of dealer I would choose if I lived anywhere near Chicago/Evanston. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 60 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, Looks like I'll be bringing my receiver in to the local NAD dealer as well. Besides the hiss problem you describe, my left rear surround channel has started to act up. Sometimes there's no sound from that channel (in scenes where there should be) and other times it's muffled a bit. I'll let you know how it goes. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 64 Registered: Mar-04 | Smitty, Sorry to hear of your troubles, it'll be interesting to see how they address this. How long have you had your T742? In my case I had mine only about three or four weeks, so they are just replacing it. Best of luck. I got an e-mail from Saturday Audio saying the new one would be sent out today. When it arrives I'll be listening closely for hiss, tones, and muffled sounds. Knock on wood... |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 61 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, I've had my T742 since early last fall. However, I have only recently set up the rear surround speakers, so they've only been in use for about three weeks. It's possible the problem existed from day one. The muffled tone is not very subtle so it should be easy for you to hear if it's happening. Also, when I did the speaker tone test there was significantly less volume coming out of that speaker than the others. I switched the connections between the LR and RR to make sure it wasn't a speaker or speaker connection issue. I doubt my local NAD dealer has any T742s left so I'm guessing I'll have to wait for it to be sent away and repaired... Good luck with yours. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 70 Registered: Mar-04 | Well, the saga continues. Last night I received my NAD T742 replacement and after hooking it up, there was no change. Still have that high-pitched tone when the digital output is selected on my Pioneer dvd 563-A. I really don't feel, now, that the problem is in the NAD, however, the Pioneer didn't exhibit this same problem when hooked up to a Denon over at http://audioclassics.com/ The problem is seen using either digital coax connects or optical cable. Could anything else external be causing this, ie: power? I would tend to doubt it because as I mentioned earlier, there was no problem for the first three weeks using this setup. I have a call in to Audioclassics to see it they'll let me bring in my Pioneer and my NAD and do some mix n matching to help narrow this down. Grrrr..... |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 69 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, sorry to hear that. Can you plug the DVD player into a different circuit than the T742? |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 71 Registered: Mar-04 | Smitty, Thanks for the idea, I may be able to try that tonight. In the mean time I spoke with Audioclassics and they'll let me take home a loaner 563-A to see if that shows the same problem. I'll be able to pick it up tomorrow afternoon. If it plays fine then the problem is definately in my Pioneer unit. They said if that's the case they'll send it out for repairs, 2-3 day turnaround time as there's an authorized service center 90 minutes away, plus they'll give me a loaner 563-A to use while its out. Kudos to Audioclassics!! |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 76 Registered: Mar-04 | Well, two Pioneer 563-A's and two NAD T742's both exhibiting the same noise when using the digital outs of the 563-A to the digital ins of the T742. Its both a hiss and a quiet but high pitched tone that's quite like a whistle. I gets quite loud above -10dB's. Its evident throughout a dvd-v, but silent during dvd-a and sacd playback. I called Pioneer and spoke to someone there - I stumped them. They never heard of anything like that before, and didn't know of any compatability issues. I sent email to NAD yesterday but as of yet haven't heard back from them. Anyone know of a US phone number for them? As a sanity check I took the 563-A, the T742, one speaker, interconnects, and speaker wire to a friend's house. Hooked up there, it failed in the exact same way. So much for my thoughts that it must be "dirty" power in my house. Scorecard - 2 NAD's, 2 Pioneers, 3 digital coax cables, one optical cable, two different homes = same failure. Needless to say I'm getting very discouraged with this whole mess. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 76 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, sorry to hear about your run of bad luck. The odd thing is that the initial problem only started happening three weeks after using the T742 with the 563-A. Sounds like your only option is to return either the T742 or the 563-A. The problem is that there are no receivers in the T742 price range with its sound quality and no universal DVD-A/SACD players in the 563-A price range period. Presumably, the hiss problem you had with the Sony DVD player still happes with your new T742? |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 79 Registered: Mar-04 | Smitty, Thanks. You are right, its very stange that it started three weeks later. That fact really has me scratching my head. Tomorrow I am going to take the loaner 563 back to Audioclassics. I'm also going to throw the T742 in the car in hopes they'll let me bring it in to try with different combinations. I know they have the DV45-A and maybe the 47A. They might be interesting to hook up to my NAD and see if there's any change. So, how are you making out with your T742? Did you have to send it off for service? Best of luck. I hope it all works out for you. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1016 Registered: Dec-03 | Wish I could think of something, Sem. You once thanked me and a bunch of others for suggesting the T742. I just want you to know I am still here, and reading. All I can say, in defence, is this is that you and Smitty make the only reports of a problem with the T742 that I have read here. I realize that's not much consolation! |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 80 Registered: Mar-04 | John A. Please don't feel at all put off for suggesting the NAD T742. You were spot-on in recommending it due to its sweet sound - I love it. There just seems to be a problem that I haven't, as of yet, been able to put a finger on, but I will. I'm sure, in the end, I'll get this figured out, have a good laugh about it, and post what I've found - in hopes of helping others that may run across this. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1028 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Sem - much appreciated. Yes, please do just that. |
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Bronze Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 77 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, The dealer was unable to reproduce the problem after running it for two days. They figure it may have been either due to poor speaker connections or the microprocessor being in a bad state due to a high or low voltage condition. So, I've since replaced a couple of loose banana plug connections with bare wire for the rear speakers and am using a voltage regulator (I do live in the boonies so the voltage fluctuation may have been the problem). Anyhow, it's been about five days now with no problems. John A., FYI the dealer also mentioned they sold about a hundred of these units(T742) an mine was the second one to come back, the other one was fried due to a lightning strike and they actually fixed it under warranty. I'm certainly very happy I purchased the T742. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 316 Registered: Dec-03 | Smitty, A 2% failure rate (or 1% if you don't count the lightning)...I can live with that. It would have been interesting if you had asked your dealer what their return rate was for some of the other NAD receivers. I would suspect that the result would be similar...at least that is what my dealer has indicated to me several times. I wonder how many of these NAD bug reports might be solved by something similar to what you did? I am certainly glad that you got all of your problems worked out!! I wish you many years of listening pleasure!! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1032 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Smitty! Well said, Johnny; I second that. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 81 Registered: Mar-04 | Well, I took my Pioneer 563-A and NAD T742 to Audioclassics and they were receptive to the idea of setting up in their shop. We used both my interconnects and theirs. What was determined is: 1) The noise is definately there using either my interconnects or theirs. 2) It is not what they consider normal. 3) I am not nuts. (Well, my wife doesn't consider this as proof). We then proceeded to hook up my 563-A to one of their Denon receivers, and my T742 to one of their Denon dvd units. With their Denon receiver and my 563-A, we paused a dvd-v and turned up the volume to the max. Placing my ear to one of the front speakers I could barely make out a slight hiss. There was no high-pitched tone. With their Denon dvd unit (2200 I think), hooked to my T742, We paused the dvd-v and turned up the volume to the max. The hum/hiss could be heard from at least thirty feet away. There was no high-pitched tone. It appears that whatever noise the Pioneer, the NAD, and the Denon may be generating, the Denon does a better job at filtering it out than the NAD. That's just my uninformed opinion. As a side note, Monday I sent an e-mail to NAD detailing my situation and asking for help identifying the problem and any known compatibility issues. Here is there response: **************** Thank you for your recent request via the NAD Electronics web-site. I spoke with technical services regarding your questions, and here is their input: The simplest solution is to use the 5.1 out of the DVD-player to the T742's 5.1 input for all decoding schemes. The best solution is to use the 5.1 out of the DVD-player to the T742's 5.1 input for SACD, and DVD-A. The connect the TOS link for Dolby Digital and DTS only. Both above solutions work. Best regards, Karen Pritchard (dc) ***************** Obviously the "best solution" will not work in my case as the annoying tone is prevalent when using either the TOS link or digital coax. That being the case, I feel there is an unacceptable problem with the NAD T742. Am I wrong in making such a statement? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1054 Registered: Dec-03 | That's pretty clear, Sem. It sure is unacceptable. You might see how NAD responds to the test at Audioclassics, even refer them here. What did Audioclassics say? It is a wonder you are the first to notice this. "I am not nuts. (Well, my wife doesn't consider this as proof)." Amen. Our wives would probably get on just fine. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 82 Registered: Mar-04 | I am planning on pursuing this further with NAD, as well as talk to Saturday Audio, where I purchased the T742. I'd like to get their take on this situation. As a Plan-B though, does anyone have any recommendations on another brand of HT receiver for around $500 or so that will match up well with my Image PSB's. I'd really hate to give up on NAD but I'm not sure where all this is heading. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1057 Registered: Dec-03 | There are some good report of the Cambridge Audio Azur 540R, Sem. But it's another whole topic, well served on the Receivers forum. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 83 Registered: Mar-04 | Thanks John A. I hope it doesn't come to that. I just called Saturay Audio and spoke Ron (?) there. He is the one that tested my original NAD that I sent back. He said he did hear more noise than there should have been, but did not hear any high-pitched tone when hooked up to a Denon dvd player. I guess it only is produced when the 563-A and T742 are in combo. He told me he would call NAD and see if he can get the engineering department to call me to discuss. The saga continues..... |
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Gold Member Username: John_aPost Number: 1069 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Sem. I'll "watch this space". |
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Silver Member Username: SemPost Number: 115 Registered: Mar-04 | Still at it here with 563A / T742 noise issue. I've been speaking for a few days with NAD Product Manager, who has been speaking with their Product Engineering guys. They're going to send me a third T742 in hopes of resolving the noise when using the 563-A dvd player. According to NAD, "I am confident this will resolve your issues." I hope so, its just hard to get too excited at this point. |
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Silver Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 342 Registered: Feb-04 | Sem "I am confident this will resolve your issues." Well I don't get it. How is another new T742 resolving your issue? I hate to say it, but to me it sounds like they are just hoping by the law of averages that another receiver might just not have the same problem. I sure hope the new one works okay. No one deserves to spend their hard earned money and have to go without a working product for such a long time and still have to keep their fingers crossed. Good luck with the new one! |
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Silver Member Username: SemPost Number: 117 Registered: Mar-04 | My Rantz, Thanks. I guess its entirely possible that for whatever reason the two units have compatability issues when hooked together. If that's the case, and the new unit exhibits the same noise, then my options would be to live with it by having the 563-A to do all the decoding; replace the NAD with another brand of receiver; or try another brand dvd player. The only catch here is through internet searching, I've found, and been in contact with, two other people using this same setup without a noise issue. Hoping third time's a charm. |
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Bronze Member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 98 Registered: Feb-04 | Since you're dealing directly with the product engineers responsible it is possible they know specifically what the issue is and are doing something to target the exposure in the unit they send you. Just a thought. Good luck. |
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Silver Member Username: SemPost Number: 118 Registered: Mar-04 | Thanks JDG, Sounds like a conspiracy theory at work, eh? Actually they contacted Saturday Audio (where I bought my original one) and are having them ship me the replacement. My fingers are crossed, but I'm not holding my breath. |
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Silver Member Username: SemPost Number: 120 Registered: Mar-04 | I received another T742 yesterday and set it up last night. The "noise" although still present is quite a bit quieter, in fact nearly impossible to hear. Compared with the first unit, which nearly drown out all music and dialog, this is something I can live with. I'm going with the idea that it is a compatability issue between the T742 and the 563A, though that's just an educated guess. I've decided to put this issue to bed and move on. In the future I'll probably upgrade to a different dvd player with high-rez support. For now, for 99% of how I use this setup, the noise will not be an issue. |
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Silver Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 101 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, glad to hear the issue is somewhat resolved. Say, did you try hooking your Sony DVD player up to the T742 to see if the hiss was still there at high volumes? |
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Silver Member Username: SemPost Number: 121 Registered: Mar-04 | Thanks Smitty, Haven't tried, the Sony has been demoted to a 20" TV in another room, movies only. It does fine for that. Interesting thing, the rep at NAD, whom I spoke with did not deny that the A/V receivers (T742 at least), have noise, (hiss), at high volumes. But as I've noticed, and you as well I think, the noise, (hiss), is at higher volumes than you'd generally be listening to. |
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Silver Member Username: SmittyCanada Post Number: 104 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, yes in my setup the hiss started a bit below 0dB. I'm not too concerned about it since the same thing happens with my older pro-logic receiver (using the same Sony DVD player) at high volumes in a DSP mode and I never have it set any higher than -10dB. What kind of bothers me though was that I had to put up with this hiss during SPL calibration. I had to go to a setting of +3dB to get a reading of 75dB on my SPL meter and of course the hiss is very noticable at this point. BTW, my NAD dealer claimed this was normal as well. |
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New member Username: GoldenarrowPost Number: 4 Registered: Jun-04 | Sem, You must be the most patient person on the planet! I am new to this forum and stumbled upon your discussion. Very good ideas thrown around and I liked the discussion immensely. I have been looking into going to Saturday Audio and getting a T512 DVD player and maybe a 742 as well. I currently use a Sony 315 player and there is some hiss but not as much as you describe. It is hooked up to a mass-market Sony receiver and NHT speakers. I also have a NAD 712 and 514 and there is some hiss there too but again, not as much as you describe. In all your trading, too bad you did not take your 742 to SA and hook up a NAD DVD player to it to see if THAT combo exhibited the same hiss and tone problem as the Pioneer player did. Makes me wonder if shielding is a problem with the Pioneer and it puts out enough hash noise of just the right kind that the NAD design picks up and amplifies. You may want to try some lead shielding on top of the DVD player - not sure how to do this, maybe using a lead foil x-ray film bag cut open and spread taped (lead/barium side facedown) to the top of the player (but not to touch any connections in back, you don't want to short out anything). Just a thought. What I might do is have SA setup a T512 and a 742 together in the showroom and see what kind of hiss problem there is. With whom did you work most with there and which store, the Evanston or the Chicago store??? Thanks for any info you can pass along to me. goldenarrow. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 344 Registered: Dec-03 | Goldenarrow, I do not live in the Chicago area, but I did buy my NAD and PSB gear from Saturday Audio, and I have nothing but good things to say about that store. I personally worked with the owner of the store, a gentleman named Andy. He was very pleasurable to work with, and he was always willing to answer any question that I had. I emailed him probably a dozen times before I actually called the store and he always responded very quickly. |
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Silver Member Username: SemPost Number: 123 Registered: Mar-04 | Goldenarrow, Thanks, I guess it could be seen as patience, but the fact is I just wanted to see which component had the "issue." Also, Audioclassics is local (I'm in NY), so there was no problem zipping over there. Saturday Audio paid for shipping the T742's around so the only hassle was switching receivers in the cabinet. I'm quite certain now that the Pioneer does give off a certain (digital) noise that the NAD amplifies, like you said. Who's actually at fault? Who knows. When a Denon dvd player was hooked to the NAD, that noise (tone), was not present. When the Pioneer was hooked to a Denon receiver there was no noise. I stopped in once at the Chicago store when I was in town for pleasure. I spent a fair amount of time with the owner, Andy Zimmerman and ended up buying some speakers. After the positive experience, I returned for more via the internet. I have to agree with Johnny, he is a pleasure to work with. BTW, the NAD and PSB combo sounds really sweet. That's the other reason I was reluctant to give up. |
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