I started looking to buy my first hi-fi integrated amp about 2 or 3 weeks ago, and since i've seen many models, heard a few, but I still can't make up my mind. No one seems to be giving me the same advice, so I thought that maybe this discussion forum could really help me out.
I was leaning strongly towards the CA, but I have a few concerns since. I started wondering how good it would do at playing dynamic music, since I love all sorts of rock music, and some people have expressed concerns about it's ability to get my speakers playing that type of music correctly. Second, it seems to lack power, and I'm wondering if it would be strong enough to play some pretty big loudspeakers, such as dual 8-inches (although i'm only going to run dual 6's for the moment).
Apparently, the Rotel would be the best suited for what I want, but i'm wondering how good it's going to be for the price, and I still have never seen them run any big loudspeakers either.
For the rest, I would love to have your advice and input! If you know of any alternate solutions that I may not have considered, I would love to know what you're thinking!
Charles - Check out NAD. The C352 is about $600, which I think is in line with your price range. I own a C320BEE, which is similar, but a little less power. I listen to different kinds or rock music almost exclusively (Hendrix, Santana, Korn, System of a Down, and so on), and the NAD's seemed to be the best for these types of music (for me anyway). They have a lot of dynamic power, and are very fast. They have no problems keeping up with my music. Bass also goes deep, but it is clean. Of the ones you listed, I've heard the Cambridge, and Rotel, and I thought the NAD's one hands down. Don't get me wrong, the other two were very good, but I chose NAD. I also listened to the Marantz.
In the end, I chose the NAD C320BEE due to a combination of performance, features, and price. It honestly has more than enough power to get the job done, even though 50 watts doesn't seem like a lot on paper.
The differences between the integrateds will also depend on the speakers you are using, or plan on using. If you are using speakers like Bose, Sony, Cerwin Vega, then you're not going to hear a difference. In this case you're better off buying the cheapest one you can find. If you are using good speakers like PSB, Paradigm, B&W, etc, then you will notice the differences.
What kind of speakers are you using or plan on using? How big is the room they're going in? How much are you planning on spending?
Rotel makes a very nice integrated and in my opinion the best of the ones you've listed. However I am with Stu on this I believe that the NAD C352 is better than any of the listed integrated's. I listen to mostly classical and jazz with a little pop and funk mixed in and NAD has served me well.
The 320bee is actually much more powerful than the specs suggest,HiFi Choice measured it at 80 watts into 8 ohms without the soft clipping circurtry aplied and 85 with it respectivelly into 4ohms
For the moment I'm using Paradigm 7SE speakers, and I'm thinking of stepping up to the Monitor 7s, unless I get something bigger.
As for the NAD, I haven't considered it yet since they don't actually seem to sell any of these products up where I live!
And while we're at it, do the NAD DVD players deliver good performance for the price? I'd also like to know if they're musical enough, as of all the ones I've heard so far, the CA is the only one that I think performs well enough to be matched into a Hi-Fi stereo system (in the range I looked at anyways).
Forget about the reviews and listen for yourself. The last year the C352 was product of the year. Now it's getting "not so nice reviews"? I think reviewers and magazines flip-flop on these things so they can make the poeple who like them happy, and make the ones who don't like them happy too.
If you listen to everything (within reason) in your price range, you shouldn't need a reviewer to tell you which sounds best.
Stu Pitt, obviously you're right, the best would be for me to listen by myself. But here's how I see it :
First, i'm not asking for people to make a choice for me, I'm asking for guidance from people that (I suppose) have more experience than me. Kinda like if you started cooking and decided to ask a chef for his advice. He could just as well tell you to go ahead, do what you think, and start over until you had something that worked, but that would be painfully long and very frustrating.
Where I live, Hi-Fi is not popular at all. Shops that have them are very limited, and a 30min drive is what awaits me to go to the closest dealer. By coming here, I'm also discovering possibilities that I could try to explore.
I'm starting to check out the NAD amps more seriously now that I've read this. I've also been told that the only differences between the C320BEE and the C352 are the power ratings and the Impedance load sensor. That means that by looking around a bit and asking questions, I might end up with about 2 or 300$ spare to buy cd's with!
As for the DVD player, I've recently been looking at the T533. I don't really know how good it's going to perform because I haven't found a place that sells them yet, but I'm gonna go for the 5 hour drive to go to the dealer next week and listen to the two amps listed above as well as a few NAD DVD players. Then, drive another 5 hours back hopefully not having the impression I wasted two tanks of gaz and a whole day, if not 2, in my life.
But Stu Pitt, I really appreciated the first post you made though, as that really helped me a lot towards knowing what I want. See, that's why I'm posting.
I have read that the NAD C352 has been upgraded recently and that is why it is currently getting better reviews than it has in the past...well it seems to have gotten mixed reviews in the past. This is one of the integrateds that I am interested in.
Does anyone know if this amp will be enough to power B&W DM602 S3's?
What other integrated amps, available in America, under $700 are worth considering?
I know that there is one integrated amp from Rotel available in America - can anyone tell me how good it is? (I know it's only 60 Watts )
I was very interested in the Rotel RA-03 until I discovered that it would be useless in the United States!
And while we're discussing, has anyone heard of a speaker switch? Can it be used to switch sources if I wanted to hook up a separate surround sound receiver with a separate integrated amp to the same speakers?
I heard a JoLida hybrid integrated amp (100 watts per channel) with JMlab Chorus 707 S speakers today and was quite impressed. The amplifier was in my price range (around $700) and I am considering it - but I really wanted to get a CD player by the same company as the amplifier that I bought (is that necessary?) - and the only JoLida CD player is a vacuum tube CD player that is around $900 - and that seems kind of outrageous to me!
Charles - I understand what you're saying about listening for yourself, and wasn't trying to imply that you're going to buy blindly. As for the soft clipping, I've never turned it on in the 320BEE. It has more than enough power for my size room and to drive my speakers without having to crank it too much. My room is on the smaller side of average (NYC apartment), and my speakers have a slightly higher sensitivity than normal.
I don't think there's any more power with it off compared to on - 50 vs 80 as some have said. As far as I know, soft clipping doesn't limit the wattage coming out, it changes the wave form on high volumes to make it less damaging on your speakers. Maybe the clipping point (wattage wise) is increased, but I haven't tried it. I've used it on an older NAD integrated a couple of times during college parties, but didn't pay attention to how much louder it could go with it vs without it. I was too busy talking to chicks and drinking...
Have any of you guys heard the Rotel RA-1062 integrated amplifier and the Rotel RX-1052 stereo receiver? I am thinking about buying one or the other -
the thing is that the integrated amp is only 60 watts, but I have read very good things about it - it seems to have a good reputation.
Whereas the receiver is 100 watts...and it should be very good - but I haven't heard very much - good or bad - about it. It should be good, if not great, and I am attracted to the fact that it is more powerful - but that doesn't necessarily mean anything - and the sound might not be as good as the integrated amp...and I have no use for a built in tuner and I don't know how much of the money went into the tuner?
As long as the bulk of the money went into the "integrated amp portion" of the receiver...and the sound quality - it should be good!
Well! I hope I made the right decision...but even if I didn't I think it will be FFAARR from a disaster!
I went ahead and purchased the Rotel RA-1062 60 watt integrated amplifier and the Rotel RCD-1072 CD player for my B&W DM602 S3's - I have heard VERY good things about all of them!
But they had to order them to get them in stock.
I got to hear the amp with very big B&W speakers - not the ones that I have - but they sounded great - the amp handled them nicely.
I just hope I made the right decision with going with the 60 watt amp instead of the RX-1052 100 watt receiver - a few knowledgable people told me that was the way they would go if it was them.
I guess my only concern is that I like to hear music relatively loud, providing it is clean and clear - and I am just hoping that it can handle playing it loud AND clear without it working up a sweat.
What do you think - did I make the right decision?
And while we're on the subject - has anyone heard of the Rotel RA-1070 100 watt integrated amplifier? Is it available in the United States? Is it still available?
I finally went shopping pretty far away, and ended up falling in love totally with the NAD C352, which I bought, with a T534 DVD player.
Everything is hooked up now, and this thing plays so well, I can't even believe it. The match is practically perfect for my Paradigm 7SEmk3's! The bass is abundent, the highs are well divided and nothing sounds too bright. I paid a reasonable price, and I'm very VERY happy with the system.
I really wanted to thank all of you, since it's people from this forum that helped me discover my newfound love (haha)! Thanks again!
Tim - Cost doesn't always equal quality in this case. I haven't heard any reasonable differences in cable over about $30.
What I look for in interconnects - EMI and RFI sheilding Durable jacket Solid connector Gold plated connector - to avoid corrosion Length - Must be long enough to comfortably fit
I use Monster Interlink 400 and have had no problems at all. They fit all of my criteria. I probably could have gotten something for a few dollars cheaper, but at the time I didn't really know any better. They have done their job though, so I don't have any realistic complaints about an extra couple of dollars.
I have an Acoustic Research interconnect that goes from my TV to my integrated. It's about 25 ft long. I haven't had any problems with this one either.
The AR was about $25 for the 25 ft, and the Monsters were about $40 for 1 meter.
Some people claim to hear differences between cables, but most will agree that they subtle at best. I don't think anyone will say their is a dramatic difference between them, except the magazines.
Thanks a lot Stu - that was a big help. Perhaps I'll get those Monster cables - or inexpensive ones that have good reviews in mags!
I basically just wanted to know who thought it was necessary to spend an arm and a leg on interconnects - and if there is any real differences in the $200 one over the $50 one.
tim hi,,forget the monsters,,for the money if you can find a used pair of eichmann express four ,with audioquest type 4 speaker cables 3 bucks a foot.or type 2 cheaper..you'll be set
Vince- Are those interconnects or speaker cables? Timmothy was aking about interconnects. As far as speaker cables go, I have the same feeling towards them as I do with interconnects. The cheapest one will do, as long as they are the proper gague for the length and impedence load. 3 or 4 bucks a foot is pretty expensive when running 25ft cables to each speaker. Some people recommend the Home Depot wire. I haven't seen or heard it. I use Acoustic Research 14 gague speaker cable for a little less than $1 per foot. They are copper, and have a clear jacket so that I could see if their was any corrosion.
stu for my rear speakers I got a guy who sold me audioquest f14 ,,I purchased about 60 feet for my 2 rear speakers,, I previously had cheaper ultra link cable and the audioquest made a huge difference in sound ,,they cost about 85 cents a foot,,[got a bit of a deal]I liked them so much I hooked them up for my rears in my car system..my friend has nad with paradigm and they are perfect,,cambridge will sound good too,,for interconnects a cheaper audioquest sidewinder i meter for 50 bucks will sound great ,,using the analog left and right out of dvd,,for coaxial get the vsd 1 from audioquest for under 50 bucks,i think audioquest provides best bang for the buck,,you'll see,,the eichmann i meter would be that much more around 100 bucks,for interconnect,, take care
Can anyone tell me if i can bi-amp using two c352? and even use the spare pre-out for a sub? I'am about to buy the c352 since i like it and its within my budget and hoping for future upgrade to bi-amp with another c352. Thanks
Hi I have been using psb speakers ( any comment on these or better recommends) they are the century 5001 cost me 400 dollars in 1998. They sound good but Im thinking to buy a integrated amp to hear what these speakers can really do. i think they max at 150 watts. So Im thinking mcintosh nad rotel marantz krell? Im basically looking for clear detail where the music sounds so clean you can wash yout hands in it
Just kidding! Mike you can get great sound with the most bang for the buck -if you do your homework.. I would start with NAD. They seem to offer a lot for the money - PSB speakers are a great speaker as well... Upgrade to better components and see how the '98 PSB's sound, then if you dont happen to like what you hear audition other speakers in your listening room..this is very important as the differences in room acoustics from the store to your room can be huge.
Of the brands you mentioned, their's only one I can recommend hands down, for every application: McIntosh. In my humble opinion, nothing sounds as good, is built as well, resells as well, and so on. Mac does everything right.
By the brands you mentioned, I'm assuming you're looking into new or used. If going the new route, Mac and Krell are way over the price point of the others and far better in just about every way (even though I don't care much for the Krell sound). Of NAD, Rotel, and Marantz, they're all good brands, but they sound very different from each other. Which is better? The one that has the sound you're looking for.
These are some generalizations about their integrateds that I think. This is all in reference to one another -
NAD - Somewhat warm and slightly forward sounding. Not the most detailed, but better than the Marantz. Probably the best bass of the group.
Rotel - Somewhat cool and forward sounding. Some say they can sound somewhat bright and clinical. The most detailed. Bass is a little thin, but not grossly so.
Marantz - Warm and laid back sounding. Probably the smoothest of the group. I think a little less detailed than NAD. Bass doesn't go too deep and is the slowest. Many say it has a very lazy sound (which can be good or bad).
Nothing beats hearing these and comparing them to one another to make your own opinions. They are all pretty well made. While everyone has personal favorites, their really isn't one best one here. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.
I used to own a pair of Century 500i's. They are pretty easy to drive (I used to drive them with my 35 watt NAD integrated). I think they probably match best with the NAD line, as they are owned by the same parent company. Even before they were both bought, they had a great synergy together.
You should probably bring along your spaekers when you listen to the integrateds. Also keep in mind if you plan to keep the speakers for a long time, or if you're looking to upgrade them in the near/distant future.
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