Which receiver for my 6 new B&W DM602 S3's?! 
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Bronze Member Username: TwochordcoolPost Number: 93 Registered: Jun-05 | Yes, I finally ended up with the B&W DM602 S3's - I just liked the way they sounded. Perhaps I could have waited and listened to more speakers and driven myself nuts and found a speaker that I liked better - but I decided not to do that. I really think that I made a good choice - I think I made a very "safe bet" and I don't think I could have done too much better for what I was looking for. Now for the REAL fun - the new thing to drive me crazy! Can anyone recommend a surround sound receiver - at around $1000 - that is as impressive (or almost as impressive) with stereo music as it is in Dolby Digital? I am very much looking forward to your replys! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1472 Registered: Mar-05 | > that is as impressive (or almost as impressive) with stereo music as it is in Dolby Digital? very tall order for the price range, Timothy, not sure if it's doable even at $2K. Anyways, I'd look at the Marantz 8400 esp. if you can get it for around $600 on uBid like I've heard. Or a Harman Kardon 635, that'll be closer to $800. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1473 Registered: Mar-05 | On second thought, I'd buy the Pioneer 1014/1015 for HT and hook up the L/R pre-outs to a NAD 320bee for 2-channel listening. Both units together should run you around $800. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 588 Registered: Jun-05 | Its not dooable period.I suggest paying about $500 to $700 on a receiver and then buying a intergrated amp thats even better than paying $4000 to $5000 for a Receiver. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1160 Registered: Feb-04 | To clarify the method proposed by Edster: The NAD 320bee is used for 2-channel playback with a CD player plugged into it. A separate DVD player hooks into the HT receiver and L/R pre-outs go into another input of the NAD 320bee. When you play a DVD, don't forget to put the NAD volume control to a predetermined level. When you play a CD, the HT receiver is out of the loop. |
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Bronze Member Username: TwochordcoolPost Number: 94 Registered: Jun-05 | OK, should I purchase a separate surround sound reciver and a separate integrated amp - say for $500 to $600 each? Will I TREMENDOUSLY improve stereo sound doing it this way? Will my surround sound receiver be pretty good, or will it be A LOT better if I paid dounble for it? If I went separate, can I hook it up so that I don't have to keep disconnecting and reconnecting the other when I want to listen to one or the other? |
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Bronze Member Username: TwochordcoolPost Number: 95 Registered: Jun-05 | OK, should I purchase a separate surround sound receiver and a separate integrated amp - say for $500 to $600 each? Will I TREMENDOUSLY improve stereo sound doing it this way? Will my surround sound receiver be pretty good, or will it be A LOT better if I paid dounble for it? If I went separate, can I hook it up so that I don't have to keep disconnecting and reconnecting the other when I want to listen to one or the other? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1477 Registered: Mar-05 | Yes. Yes. No. Yes. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1482 Registered: Mar-05 | BTW Timothy, I say you should at least experiment with the Panasonic sa-xr55, it's supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread at least according to all these folks: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=bf7e877e475e97409fe9a22e8a5bad72 &t=530504&page=1&p p=30 PS. For some stupid reason, eCoustics won't allow me to have a double "p" in the text so I had to put a space between the two p's at the end of that link. You need to copy and paste the link into your browser window and take out the space in order to make it work. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 389 Registered: May-05 | Here's one for you Timothy. It should have everything you need. A little over your budget, but not too much. If you can swing the extra few dollars, you shouldn't have a single complaint. http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=15&cat=&prodid=105 2&product=MHT200 Look for it on Havreyonline.com. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 390 Registered: May-05 | If you're going the AVR and integrated amp route, check this out for the integrated - http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=17&cat=Integrated+ Amplifiers&prodid=1018&product=MA6900 Not too shabby either. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 391 Registered: May-05 | Sorry - Harveyonline.com. |
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Bronze Member Username: TwochordcoolPost Number: 97 Registered: Jun-05 | Stu, never ever heard of them. Are they good /reliable? For all I know they could be better than Yamaha / Denon / Rotel / Onkyo / Harmon Kardon / NAD - but I never heard of them and I'd probably feel more comfortable going with a brand that is recocnizable / established. Is that foolish? Any other suggestions for going with a $600 integrated amp and a $600 receiver? And is that DEFINITELY the best way to go if stereo / music is as important to me as home theater? Would I definitely get more going this route than putting the whole $1200 in a surround sound receiver? |
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Bronze Member Username: TwochordcoolPost Number: 99 Registered: Jun-05 | Hey Edster, do you know anything about the NAD C352CT integrated amplifier or the Denon AVR-2105 surround receiver? I have read, in WHAT HI*FI SOUND AND VISION magazine, that they are both supposed to be very good. Are these models available in America and compatible with our electrical outlets? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1487 Registered: Mar-05 | Timothy, No direct experience with either one but don't see how you could go wrong with either one, though I really don't think you need to spend more than maybe $300-400 on an HT receiver if you're getting an integrated amp for 2-channel music. I really think that you should try the Panny sa-xr55 first...$250 shipped from jandr.com and if you don't like it you'll be out maybe $10-15 return shipping. I am very curious to try one of these myself, pure digital receivers compared to analog receivers might be what CDs are compared to LPs. I did hear a JVC rx-f10 pure digital several months ago and was VERY impressed with the clarity, detail and spaciousness of it. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 402 Registered: May-05 | Timothy - You probably should go with a brand that is more recognizable/established than McIntosh. McIntosh is kind of like the "White Van" of home audio components. Any $600 integrated amp and $600 receiver will run circles around their stuff. I really hope you're just giving it back to me here... |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 403 Registered: May-05 | Timothy - On a more serious note... I agree with the first part of Ed's post. I haven't heard the digital receivers, so I can't comment on that. The NAD C352 is a vey good integrated amp. It is available here, and retails for about $599. I don't know about the Denon AVR you mention, but I hear they don't do too well when impedences go down to 4 ohms or lower. To me this implies the power supply isn't as good as it should be. Will an integrated amp and AVR DEFINATELY be better than an AVR of the same price (combined)? Only you could answer that one. I think the C352 for 2 channel music will beat any AVR 2-3 time its price, but that's just me. Just like your speakers, it depends on your personal preferences - what type of music, how loud, how detailed, etc. The only way to find out for sure is to try them out for yourself. If I were spending $1200 for components and needed very good music play back, I would most likely go with a NAD C352, and a H/K or Marantz receiver. If I didn't want a couple of different components or have the space for them, I would look into the Arcam AVR 2500 for about $1600. Here's a link to it - http://audiophilesystems.com/arcam/index.htm In it's price range, it's pretty much impossible to beat for sound quality, reliability, etc. Arcam also does a lot of upgrades/updates to their older stuff through their dealers, which helps keep up to date with the latest stuff. You really should make it a point to hear their stuff. This way may be the best convenience to sound quality ratio. Not too many people will argue about the sound quality of Arcam AVR's. But that's just me. Make sure you have listened to enough stuff to form your own independant opinion, and don't give yourself a heart attack in the process. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 404 Registered: May-05 | One more thing - forget about What Hi-Fi? magazine. For that matter, forget about us. Go listen to as much stuff as you can. That's what really matters. |
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Bronze Member Username: AlphabetCape TownSouth Africa Post Number: 32 Registered: Feb-05 | Edster. Just a question to you. You suggested using a NAD320BEE for Front L/R. Now I have seen that being suggested quite often, but as the NAD is only 50watts RMS x 2, won't that present a problem in HT mode? What I mean by problem is that if you use an HT receiver delivering 100W per channel and combine it with a 50W amplifier won't it happen that the front L/R channel be under-amplified? Im just curious. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 407 Registered: May-05 | I think he meant using it for the fronts for music, and not HT. I meant it that way when I said the 352 was a good way to go. The 320BEE is very under rated. I know this first hand because I own it. It shouldn't have any problems keeping up with a 100 watt mass market AVR. It would probably be the other way around. |
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Bronze Member Username: AlphabetCape TownSouth Africa Post Number: 33 Registered: Feb-05 | Hi Stu. I understood it the way he meant, but I was thinking about how the 320BEE will perform if used to drive L/R in HT mode. It appears as if it is not a very expense amplifier and I have seen many good ratings on it. No, No, No, I have to stop this itch! I already spent a fair amount of money on HT equipment 2 months ago! But if I were to buy a 320BEE, what would be the best way of connecting into a HT system? From receiver L/R pre-outs directly into NAD power amp or to an input on NAD utilizing the pre-amp and power amp? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1497 Registered: Mar-05 | Stu's right. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1500 Registered: Mar-05 | Timothy D, you might want to read this little thread, one guy finds the pure digital Panny sa-xr55 keepin up with his HK 7200, a flagship $2000 AVR: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?p=11426#post11426 I've read similar things on other threads on the avsforum.com about these Pannys, am itching to try one out myself. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1191 Registered: Feb-04 | Abe, First, it's unlikely that a typical HT receiver rated at 100W per channel is rated with all channels driven, so leaving R+L to the NAD would actually help it deliver the goods. Second, there is only 3 dB difference between 50W and 100W so it's unlikely that the extra headroom is be needed for HT. It depends on your room and speaker sensitivity, but reference level for me is at -17 dB on the dial of a 50W per channel receiver! Way below 1W per channel, and that's too loud. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 408 Registered: May-05 | Abe - I haven't connected the 320BEE to an AVR or anything else related, so I can't comment on the best way to go about that. Others here have. I do have the 320BEE connected to the outputs of my tv and have no complaints about it's performance in that department. I don't repeatedly watch a lot of movies with huge sound effects, but I have watched a couple with my integrated amp, and it held it's own. It is not a match for a 7.1 AVR with the latest decoding and monster sub woofer by any means. I listen to about 95% music, and 5% movies on it. The movies and tv shows are pretty much comedies, sports, and news, which are generally a waste of H/T money. What good would an Arcam AVR do me for watching Seinfeld, Yankees games, Ohio State football games and Sports Center? |
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Bronze Member Username: AlphabetCape TownSouth Africa Post Number: 34 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks guys! I think I will wait a few months(preparing the significant other!) then buy a 320BEE and experiment. Peter, I understand what you are saying about all channels driven. I had a Yamaha receiver previously that was rated at 85W x 6 all channels driven, but I was convinced that my 24year old NAD3020 had more power! By the way I have not reached -17dB yet! At -25dB the structural weaknesses in my house start to show up, he, he, he!(Window panes doing a jive, etc) Depending on how it was recorded I normally listen to movies at -35 to -30dB and music(stereo) at between -30 & -25dB(Okay when I am alone at home!) otherwise -40dB! |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 567 Registered: Oct-04 | I don't understand why people buy a receiver to use only as a Pre-amp, if you're going to go with seperate power amp(s) wouldn't the money be better served buying a Pre/Pro which has better components and less electrical interference? Is the mark up on seperates so much that it's worth buying receivers with 7 channels worth of amplification rather than building the system with only seperates? |
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Bronze Member Username: AlphabetCape TownSouth Africa Post Number: 35 Registered: Feb-05 | Kano, there is some method in this madness! It is a lot easier to persuade the significant other that you are spending money on one item at a time than to spend everything at once and all she sees are all these boxes just to listen to music.:-) In the end you introduce one piece of equipment at a time and then start replacing them, again one at a time. That way the impact(WAF) is a lot less. I can probably live with what I have as I am quite satisfied, but all of us have that itch to "improve" all the time! :-) Unfortunately here in South Africa separates are very expensive compared to integrated receivers and I think it has to do with the limited demand for such items. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 568 Registered: Oct-04 | Still even in your case the Outlaw 950 can be had for around $500 US http://cgi.ebay.com/Outlaw-Audio-7-1-Channel-Preamp-Processor-Model-950_W0QQitem Z5797194543QQcategoryZ14978QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The newer 990 is $1099 plus shipping and looks to be a strong unit - http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/705outlaw/ However at this price point they are now competing more with the likes of NAD, Rotel, etc. as they were with the 950 which retailed for as low a price as $699 |
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Anonymous | Sorry for the length of this, but I'm still trying to understand how these pieces fit together. Thinking only of HK and NAD: If I buy an HK 235 for my limited HT use (rated at 65x2, 50x7) and use an NAD 320BEE to power the fronts (50x2), what am I gaining for 2 channel listening if the NAD has less power? What if I step up to the HK 435 at 80x2? Is it then still worth adding a 320BEE with a lower power rating or would I have to step up to the C352 (80x2)? Will adding an integrated amp at or below the receiver's power rating going to make a noticable improvement in 2-channel sound? I understand how an HK 235 and an NAD C352 could sound better than an HK 435 alone (for primarily music and very limited HT), but that's a $900 combined cost (~$350+~$550) vs. ~$550 for the 435. Even an HK 235 and NAD 320BEE combo would cost $150 more than the 435. Would any differences between those options/combinations be apparent primarily with 4-ohm vs. 6- or 8-ohm speakers? Now throw in the new Outlaw 1070 A/V receiver (65x7) at $900. Is the HK 435 alone still going to tend to be a better choice for 90/10 music/HT use? I know I should actually listen to hear the differences in the way this equipment sounds. I'm just trying to get a handle on the general rules on how to fit the pieces together. I don't mind paying the extra $$$ for better sound, but if the difference in performance is negligible then I'd rather save the money (and about 4-5" in space on my shelves). |
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T2T Unregistered guest | Why not try the 235 with the built-in amps and then add the separate amp down the road? I have the H/K AVR-125 with some pretty efficient speakers. However, when in 2-channel mode and bass being supplied by the sub, I barely use the power that the AVR-125 can provide. I guess I'm just more into the quality of the music than the quantity. Regardless of which H/K receiver you pick, I'm sure it will sound great with your speakers. Enjoy! |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 569 Registered: Oct-04 | "Why not try the 235 with the built-in amps and then add the separate amp down the road?" Because of all the extra processing noise and electromagnetic interference. Is it not the point of adding a power amp to a decent set of speakers to get the most out of those speakers? By the same token seperating the pre-amp and processor from the amp(s), you again take another step towards getting the most out of your speakers. If one already has the plan to only use a receiver for its pre-amp and processor, they should realize what they are gaining from going with a seperate pre/pro or individual pre-amp and processor. Re-reading the original poster's question, this may not be the best route for him. My posting was in reply to the frequent suggestion of buying a receiver to solely use as a processor. |
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