Archive through July 26, 2005
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Bronze Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 17 Registered: Jun-05 | Well budget gear has taken it up another notch again its pretty unfair to compare them to anything up under $1200.00.What ever you name they do very welland the bass is stunning and not in the sense of theyare very good for a $1000.00 floorstander'I mean they rival speakers costing thousands more quite stunning now im thinking what am i gonna do with the Mordaunt-Shorts'WOW! |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1482 Registered: Jan-05 | SDATs, are you kidding? Have you listened to these in person?? SDAT claim their small bookshelf speakers go down to 20hz, and that doesnt reflect well on them as a company. I've never listened to their speakers, but based on their false claims in advertising, I'm not sure that I care to listen. |
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Anonymous | Guess that means your $7500 was well spent huh? |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784Post Number: 444 Registered: Nov-04 | that a bunch of bs. if they were that great than they wouldn't have the sony/athena price tag. aren't you the one saying athena's were bad? geez oh man. |
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Zorro Unregistered guest | Tawaun, No offense but, get real man |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 507 Registered: May-05 | I'm lost Zorro, what names & model is Tawaun, talking about. As for that $1200.00 budget loudspeakers, what a rip off, but what get is what you pay for... I for believe, in cutting corners... |
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Bronze Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 20 Registered: Jun-05 | . but to the rest of you i am very shoked yeah the bookshelf goin down to 20 htz yeah thats not true.But about what im saying yeah its very true.Im not sayin the whole line but i would like to find out though. sorry guys about my writing but i had to retract what i said about Chris |
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Bronze Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 22 Registered: Jun-05 | As for the model the SB 639d very good and they will really go down to 20htz not in my room though when im done with the room they will.My friends are bringing thier speakers over tomorrow for a shootout it will be interesting.One of my buddies heard them today he was shocked.I was off of work today and i just made it to the computer 45 minutes ago.what can i say all you guys can rag on me all you want after all most speakers these days are built in China.So in away im not suprised,but yeah i am what am i talkin about this really fun.Hey we all bought into Bose at one time didnt we.So i see no harm in this,but this is not Bose this really is a very good product.We all have to have a open mind when it comes to audio hey I want some Ariel 20 Ts but i dont wanna pay that kind of money who does.When you have aproduct like this you gotta jump on it i know im keeping these for along time to.So say what you want thats what we are on this line for is to help each other,hey im trying to help everyone so pay attention dont criticize until you hear them.Im glad the audio world is offering this kind of performance to the con sumer.Sorry Athena guys i tried to make you guys mad yesterday and that wasnt right,so i appologize.But i will not say i am sorry for the performance of these speakers its true and i stand by it and wish that everyone can have this kind of sound,but most of us cant now thats over these are the real deal litteraly.They are deffinately worth atry for everyone espeacially those on a budget.I didnt create this thread for people to rag on it but to ask questions.I will give them to you in detail the best way i can just dont rag on my writing. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 175 Registered: Jun-05 | Just wanted to let everyone know they are breaking in and sounding better and better.I have to say it again the best bang for the buck on the planet. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 176 Registered: Jun-05 | Just wanted to let everyone know they are breaking in and sounding better and better.I have to say it again the best bang for the buck on the planet. |
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Bronze Member Username: AudioholicPost Number: 78 Registered: Apr-05 | Tawaun A.Williams you've GOT TO BE KIDDING. Tell me your kidding. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 213 Registered: Jun-05 | No Im not kidding you just have to hear them to believe it,Im still stunned Paul. |
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Bronze Member Username: AudioholicPost Number: 80 Registered: Apr-05 | Tawaun, glad your enjoying them |
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Silver Member Username: EdisonGlendale, CA US Post Number: 753 Registered: Dec-03 | William, Thanks for the post - it's good to hear a news like this, 'coz I am an audio-evangelist - and as you know, average Joe cannot be converted to spend the kind of bucks we do, for our sonic-dream. This is a great news for me - I will be sending them to my relative music majors. What do you mate them with, CD and the amp? With China's wages, these amazing products are possible - I had luck with other Chinese products breaking price/quality berrier b4 to my sulprise. I am thinking of mating them with Onkyo 8511 discreet wide current receiver, with using the computer as the source (to reduce jitter). I think someone mentioned the Onkyo/SDAT as a good combo - although he said he wasn't a seasoned audiophile. The onkyo can be had for $160 on ebay. I am going to upgrade the soundcard to waveterminal u24 (96/24 bits), and possibly add a DAC to further enhance the sound. Anyway, let us know if you come across other products like this - it will help many enjoy good music at home - for those majority who are not going to shell out thousands on hifi gears. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 288 Registered: Jun-05 | Well I would go with a used Nad intergrated amp they like current and amprage.Youmay be able to land a Nad at E-bay or audiogon the 320bee or 352. |
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New member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 10 Registered: Jul-05 | I just ordered some of the SDAT speakers from overstock.com for $253.00 |
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Jon Dizoe Unregistered guest | SDAT's sound and look like white van speakers to me. They look so cheap and corny that I can't imagine them sounding good. Tawaun and Richard probabaly work for the company, and are just trying to get people to buy them. http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=speakers&n=179393&highlight=SDAT&r=&se ssion= |
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New member Username: MiltonPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-05 | Just so ya know Richard Patrick is a major troll on several forums like HTT, HTF, and S&V. He has been either kicked off of or nearly banned from all of them for his non-sensical sales pitches for stuff like QuickSilver, teflon taping and caulking his entire speaker system, and the funniest of all...freezing (in a home freezer) EVERY cd and audio video piece of equipment he has..all this is claimed to make things sound AMAZING. Lastly, take note that he is around 14 years of age and lives with his parents..so he's claimed to me and others..personally I think he just a dillusional middle aged guy who has NO life and likes to stir up things on every A/V forum he can get onto. So don't take him too seriously..99.9% of what he says is BS. |
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New member Username: MiltonPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-05 | Oh and I'm sure you all will be ANXIOUS to hear that Richard claims he..well read his PM message about it here: [quote]Will it looks like I'm going to be in another magazine REVIEW! People will look up to me when the review comes out and I will post it on every forum out there.....How about that I'm going to be bigger than life.[/quote] |
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John Wagner Unregistered guest | I have these sdat speakers, they were better than some Paradigm studio 100v3. The Paradigm's were boxy and the top end was too bright compared to the sdat speakers |
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John Malkovich Unregistered guest | $250 speakers against $2000 speakers? That ain't nothing. We tested these SDAT against Wilson Audio Watt/Puppy. The SDAT were smooth in the upper mids where the Wilson Audio show distinct flaws. No comparasion. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1239 Registered: Feb-05 | If the Studio 100's were too bright the speaker was not the problem. Look elsewhere in the system. They are usually described as laid back. I own Paradigm Reference speakers and bright they are not. I have also listened to the Wilson speakers properly set up (Watt/Puppy, Sophia, and Maxx 2) and simply don't buy your claim. Let the flaming begin. |
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Anonymous | LOL Art. For some reason I seriously doubt the sincerity of the last two posters. I could be wrong, but either way, I'm not going to worry too much if someone says they like SDAT's way better than Wilsons. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1240 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm with you. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 970 Registered: Feb-04 | Right Art... They think at least the second one is ribbing the first one. Not sure whether the first one is serious or not. But comparing against $2000 speakers isn't a fair comparison anyway. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 705 Registered: Mar-05 | Sdat's compare to Optimus. |
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Anonymous | You don't say Joe. At $250, I was really expecting them to compare to the Paradigm Signatures. Although I am curious, have you heard the SDATs to know what they compare to, or are you just taking a shot in the dark? |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 706 Registered: Mar-05 | Shot in the dark I will leave to Ozzy, registering so your comments are less caprice I will leave to you, and making quality speakers I will leave to.......anything but Sdatcrap. |
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New member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-05 | Feel better now? |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 708 Registered: Mar-05 | Great, now tell me what speakers you have compared side by side to the Sdat's??? |
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New member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-05 | Nothing. But since you made a statement comparing them to Optimus, I would like to hear of your experiences with them. Please, do enlighten me. What else do they compare to? How do they sound? How is their tonal balance? Imaging? Soundstaging? Teach me ohh wise one. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 709 Registered: Mar-05 | Why would I care about soundstaging, imaging and tonal balance when all of those qualities have just as much to do with speaker quality as they do with recorded media,source,preamplification and ampification. I have not heard them, but I will say this, at their price point I would expect bright highs, muddy midrange, very boomy bottom end. As far as your qualities that seem important to you, as long as the ealier listed items remain neutral, I would guess these will sound very forward in soundstaging, undefined imaging and as far as tonal balance all over the place. That's without listening to them and just a guess having listened to ALOT at that price point. Now you teach me oh supercillious one, why do you even think that these speakers would compare to something 8 times the price? Granted Bose could be 8 times the price and I would expect harmony between the two, but with quality brands like Paradigm, Psb, Totem, Monitor, B+W, and ascends(for you Ed) , and this is just a guess again, NO comparison. |
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New member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 4 Registered: Jul-05 | So in other words, you decided that it would be useful for those of us that inhabit this forum with you to inform us that SDAT's cost the same as Optimus speakers, and as a result probably perform similarly. I thank you for your wonderful insights into the matter. As for your question, I never laid to claim that SDATs could compete with high end speakers. But. since I have never listened to them, I wouldn't wish to make general assumptions. I do however thank you for trying to bait me into a position I never held. |
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New member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 5 Registered: Jul-05 | So let me ask you this Mr. Coulson, given their similar price, how do Ascend CBM-170's compare with Paradigm's Focus & Titan? Their prices are very close together, so they must be pretty close in performance right? |
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John Wagner Unregistered guest | These sdat speakers are really that good. My friend was SHOCKED! after comparing his Paradigm studio 100v3 to the SDAT speakers. I thought that they were good but I didn't think they would beat the Paradigm's but they did! My friend is now going to sell his Paradigm's and get some sdat sb-e639d speakers. We both can not believe it! All I say is, I'm glad that I do not have to spend a lot of money anymore to get great sounding speakers! THANK YOU SDAT KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1245 Registered: Feb-05 | Another goofball inhabits ecoustics. Wow, I'm shocked. |
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New member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 6 Registered: Jul-05 | At least I'm not stealing your name ehh? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1246 Registered: Feb-05 | I wasn't referring to you DA. |
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New member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 7 Registered: Jul-05 | Oki Doke. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 714 Registered: Mar-05 | No idea devil, I just said that for respect to edster. Never heard them myself, but from what people compare them too they might be quite nice. But from the price point they should be simular in quality yes. Sound, no idea |
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New member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 9 Registered: Jul-05 | If you're interested, a number of people compare them to the Paradigm Studio series and B&W 700 series. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 716 Registered: Mar-05 | The main difference that I would see between the Sdat's and those two other brands is the quality of components. I can guarantee you that the crossovers in the Sdat's are printed circuit 99 cent crossovers while the paradigm's studio's have 2nd order crossovers(custom built I am sure ) and the B+W's I do not what type of crossover they use, but I can tell you it will be custom built also. To me , anyone who compares the Sdat's to these, is not "listening" to the music. |
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New member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 10 Registered: Jul-05 | Again, I'm not personally saying they do compare with a $2000 speaker (except Bose as you mentioned). But I wouldn't write them off as crap without listening to them first. The people who supposedly do seem to come off with a positive impression of them like Tawaun there. |
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New member Username: MakomanPost Number: 5 Registered: Jul-05 | With the recent discussion going on, I thought I would ask if I should go with my plan to buy and tweak the CSW model six https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/149332.html or get the SDAT 404s or 639s. It's a shame I can't listen to either. Any suggestions? (I am leaning toward the model six -- too many good reviews.) |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 11 Registered: Jul-05 | There are too many questions for SDAT to answer before I would even consider buying one. For example their SB-E5 bookshelf speaker has a 10" woofer, but the speaker itself is only 9.2" wide. But alas, I'm biased in this case. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 971 Registered: Feb-04 | Actually, according to a vendor, they fit in your hand! Dimensions mm 48 x 18 x 12 (H W D) http://shop.store.yahoo.com/buyessex/sdsbprbospwi.html :-) |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 12 Registered: Jul-05 | LOL Regular price 1299.99 Sale Price 90.99 Thats a good deal!! |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 13 Registered: Jul-05 | Actually as I understand it to fit a 10" driver into that small a cabinet they went with new "folded driver" technology. The whole driver is folded or "crumpled" into a little ball. Surface area of the driver is maintained, sort of, but the volume of box needed is greatly reduced. |
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AudioSTAR Unregistered guest | I absolutely love how people like Joseph Coulson use the "price means everything" standard! (He's my hero, and I'm so impressed by his posts!) It is so refreshing to hear his opinions on a speaker that he hasn't even listened to. Of course, why would he need to listen to them, they're obviously crap if they don't cost a small fortune! Frankly, anything below the $20,000 range (per speaker) tends to be bright, muddy, non-musical, harsh, offensive, imbalanced, lacking imaging, etc. - so I wouldn't even use the SDAT woofer cones to scoop my cat's dung out of the litter box. I should know, I've listened to every speaker ever created in the $1-$50,000 range (of course I had to pick with the $50,000 ones - the others were all terrible). I can judge any piece of audio equipment by the price category it falls in, and provided the brand name, I can tell you every detail you would experience using said equipment. Right now I'm auditioning some $20,000 speaker cables (that's per foot, mind you!) but I think their tonality is just rubbish. Maybe if they break in a little more...of course buying those cable elevators might just bring them up to speed. It's somewhat depressing, though, since no-one else seems to be able to afford all the audio-salon equipment that I buy by the truck-load. I pretty much have to go around putting other people down all day, since nothing they buy could hold a candle to my exorbitantly priced voodoo products. Oh well, 'tis the lonely plight of the audiophile. I must get back to massaging my speaker cables - if they feel 'love' or 'compassion' the midrange gets really smooth (if you know what I mean). |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 717 Registered: Mar-05 | Price does not mean everything, but in most cases it makes a big difference. For the same price as those Sdat's I would much prefer some psb alpha's. Same price AudioSTAR. I am saying that the quality usually goes down as size goes up if the price stays the same. How did I put you down AudioSTAR, did I hurt your feelings personally or did I hurt your friends? Or is it that you feel the need to go at me because my tastes do not concur with yours? I am truly sorry that you have to reply with stupid sarcastic comments instead of presenting a real argument. I thought you might be off to a good start considering I have not listened to these particular speakers, but no thats where the sarcasm took over. Now tell me unregistered GUEST, what do you have to contribute to the argument of these SPEAKERS and not me. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 975 Registered: Feb-04 | I absolutely love how people like Joseph Coulson use the "price means everything" standard! Well, to be balanced, one does have to consider that they make at least some outragous claims (low freq. extension, driver size vs cabinet size). Of course, maybe the manufacturer isn't reponsible for a vendor posting a retail price of $1,299.99 and a sale price of $90.99 or any other misrepresentation. Do they have a web page we could look up for the truth of it all? But Joseph has a point... You've not going to find high grade components in crossovers if the entire speaker costs under $100. It's simply impossible. Right? Does that make an audible difference? Most likely more so than swaping interconnects for an audiophile, and perhaps not for the average person on the street. So the criticism becomes legitimate when people claim that the speakers sound as good as $2000 speakers. |
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AudioSTAR Unregistered guest | I'm sorry for the late reply - I've been massaging my cables all morning long. Whew! That's some hard work, let me tell you. But it's worth it (the liquidy midrange is delicious!). Who said anything about SARCASM? (notice, all-caps indicates FURY, RAGE, or maybe EMPHASIS!) I'm as serious as a bear in heat, I'll have you know. Hurt FEELINGS? Friends' hurt feelings? Where did any of that come from? I pour over every word of your highly informative posts. You're posts should be considered the linchpin of this forum for their outstanding credibility and usefulness. I mean, judging something that you haven't listened to is truly the purest form of a "real argument" and is highly useful to someone needing advice. I try to berate every product that just anyone could afford, since it gives me the greatest satisfaction to know I've enlightened one more lowly fool. Of course, I spend more time talking about esoteric equipment on forums than I do actually listening to it - now that's the true role of the dedicated audiophile! |
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GUEST-man Unregistered guest | Now where does a GUEST get the nerve to post something like that? GUESTS these days! The nerve is palpable! |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 511 Registered: Nov-04 | its ok, most guest posters are jackoffs anyway so i hope joe doesnt take audiostar too seriously. its sometimes amusing how these guys think they know so much but have nothing to show for. kinda like a five year old bragging about his dad to all the other five year olds. |
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Mr.Bias Unregistered guest | Well, Joseph should expect some negative feedback when he decides to post extensively against something he has no first hand experience with. I'm not promoting SDAT, nor am I saying their claims aren't bogus, but I haven't listened to them. Therefore, I decline to comment on their sound, because no matter what they cost, no matter what components are in them, I simply DO NOT know how they would sound. Stating that you could know with great certainty such characteristics as "muddy midrange" is foolish and arrogant, no matter what qualifications you possess. Actually stating sonic qualities doesn't impress me, at least. Saying that they are of dubious origin or have questionable specs, however, are two perfectly reasonable assumptions to make. When a company is selling speakers that have an MSRP of $2k for only $80, you have to question what is going on. That shouldn't directly relate to how they sound, however. (You must admit, that AudioSTAR fellow is quite funny, if not bitingly sarcastic) |
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Bronze Member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 11 Registered: Jul-05 | Some of you here are putting these speakers down without ever listening to them, do you think thats fair? I think these SDAT SB-E639D speakers are one of the best buys on the market, don't let their cheap price fool you! |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 721 Registered: Mar-05 | Mr.Bias Unregistered guest GUEST-man Unregistered guest AudioSTAR Unregistered guest Got three going now huh forumphile. Get real and start paying attention, you said: Stating that you could know with great certainty such characteristics as "muddy midrange" is foolish and arrogant, no matter what qualifications you possess. but this is in reply to this comment I have not heard them, but I will say this, at their price point I would expect bright highs, muddy midrange, very boomy bottom end. hmm you do pay attention but wait, please tell me you realize this is an oxymoron: When a company is selling speakers that have an MSRP of $2k for only $80, you have to question what is going on. That shouldn't directly relate to how they sound, however. Would anyone here expect Porshe 911 like qualities from an old vw (poor mans porshe), why not, it has the same kind of engine, they are both in the rear, thats should be close enough right. How about the same qualities from a timex as in a Rolex, they both tell time right. Yes you are right , I should not make any assumptions on sound based on the fact that they cost $80. I bet they sound as good as Focal Utopia Grande's. Sorry for being realistic audiostar/Mr.bias/guest-man/get real you idiot. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 350 Registered: Jun-05 | Well I see the SDAT junk claims keep going by most people on here who have never heard them.Every time someone on here bashes some well known peoples favorites people start whining and complaining like little babies without their rattles.Well im the one who started this thread,I started it give people some feedback on the SBE-639d and I have already stated this speakers brilliance that most $1000 floorstanders are not better than them,and beleive me I have bought and heard many of them.To compare them to Wilsons is nonsence though,but floorstanders up to $1000 maybe a little more yes they are very comparible and no it does not have a cheap crossover it is a very complex design considering they have a supertweater.It has 5 drivers thats a lot and if the crossover was cheap with that many drivers and making them blend and intergrate with each would be virtually impossible,the crossover is very good considering how they disapear and form a solid very large soundstage,and those are 2 things that most of the $1000 floorstanding dont do well,yeah many high profile names,not to mention clean accurate lease braking bass.They are a increadible bargain,so those of you who own them or are thinking about getting them,dont listen to these people on here who hasnt heard them,which is most members on here.The 639 is a very safe buy. |
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Bronze Member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 13 Registered: Jul-05 | Tawaum, do you still think that these SDAT SB-E639D speakers are better sounding than your Mordaunt Short MS-908's, these speakers cost close to $2000 |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 352 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah,the M-S cost $1100 retail,price is overrated in some cases and this is one of them.SDAT is just selling at these prices to break into the american speaker market,so they can become a household name like Usher Audio another Chinese company thats trully stunning for their price points and the build is second to none on the Ushers.Remember over 50% of speakers are built in China,it seems that most people on this forum are failing to understand that. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1343 Registered: Mar-05 | hi Tawaun, Glad to see you back. Since it looks like you happen to know one of the SDAT sales reps, do you think you can talk to him regarding a travelling-audition setup like Tim has proposed with his Alegria Lings? (see the Lings vs. Ascend thread) I'd love to put the SDATs side by side with both the Ascends and the Lings, just don't want to pay for anything more than return shipping. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 353 Registered: Jun-05 | Edster I dont know him you can just call him and talk to him he might be interested in that,but see its not the same case like Tims speakers the SDATs are availible various online stores they are making money getting lots of sales its just their marketing strategy I dont get.For them to have such a good product I dont like the way they are selling them it wont get them any attention from the hifi world.So aparently they are only interrested in sales at super cheap prices,they are gonna have to change some things if they expect real audio people to take them seariouslly,they need to get away outlet markets and put their product in proper hifi hands and then real audio people will discover what nice product they have and get some good reviews from the magazines. |
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Mr. Bias Unregistered guest | Hey Joe...I'm actually an audio-enthusiast who happened to be searching the internet for RELEVANT (notice the emphasis) audio reviews from users and owners, not from audio publications. Notice: from USERS and OWNERS. You obviously don't qualify for either of these categories for this specific product, thus why did you feel the need to post on this thread? To enlighten the less-fortunate ones? I searched, using Google, and came across this forum - I was amazed by the arrogance and stupidity of your posts (as with some of the other high and mighty users, too). Yes, you do have super-sleuth skills, that's for sure. Of course, I am not a member here, which I suppose is a VERY important achievement for you (you should put it on your resume, you know). I consider a membership here a waste of time, since you have to comb through the useless piles of uninformative and immature posts like yours. Oh, and the car reference. Quite funny, really. Cars are, for the most part, one of the best examples of a product where a higher price does indeed relate to higher performance. Acceleration times, horsepower, power-to-weight ratios, road handling, and aerodynamics are NOT subjective qualities (such as smooth midrange). They are true quantifiable values that can be measured using various scientific methods. And yes, for pure performance, I agree - I would much rather drive a Porsche (check your spelling, it looks bad when you call someone an idiot, but then you don't even spell correctly) than a VW. But by your simple-minded definition, you wouldn't consider a Subaru WRX, because it's relatively cheap, right? Maybe you should "get real" as you put it. (Consider repair costs of the Porsche versus the VW, or other aspects, such as reliability, etc. Rational adults usually try to consider these qualities, too) Oh, and it is widely known that Rolex watches, especially the 'classic' models - such as those from the 1960's and 70's - do not keep time as precisely as many cheaper watches. They are quite pretty and you can impress your friends with them - but don't rely on them for spot-on accuracy. Of course, I guess you kind of proved a point with your post - you equate quality with cost no matter what other evidence exists. You have the comparison and evaluation skills of perhaps a 10-year old. Maybe that's being too nice. Some advice for you: stick to reviewing products you own or have used first hand. If someone posts a question or comment regarding a product you haven't used, then keep your (useless) opinion to yourself. It would be really interesting (and funny, too) to subject someone like you to a double-blind test. Of course, you probably don't believe in the validity of scientifically proven tests, but the results would be quite humorous. Most "audiophiles" squirm when asked to participate in double-blind tests, though, because they usually have a hard time picking out differences that they preach about all the time. Go back to listening to your speakers with the price tag taped to the front, and only post when your opinion (however useless it may be) is actually RELEVANT to the topic at hand. Time for you to get real, buddy. |
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Mr. Bias strikes again Unregistered guest | I know I should let this one go, but I must re-post. Your argument "How about the same qualities from a timex as in a Rolex, they both tell time right." (so skillfully stated, too!) is a great example of the worthlessness of your posts. Read on... You are justifying your negative review of an inexpensive speaker (that you haven't listened to) by stating that Rolex is obviously better than Timex. WHAT exactly is better? Timex watches have quite a solid reputation for their accuracy and reliability, but they are simple and affordable time-pieces. But what does a Rolex do that a Timex cannot? Fashion! Sure, a Rolex is flashy and impressive, but they most certainly do not PERFORM any better than a Timex. They function as a piece of JEWELRY or decoration - their higher price is a function of the high quality and precious materials (diamonds, gold, etc) that are adorned on the outside of a very normal watch. Does the Rolex tell time better? Is it an atomic wrist watch? Of course not. Think about what a terrible argument that was! So, Joseph, what do you look for in audio equipment? Flashy, impressive brand names, perhaps devices that serve as "jewelry" or decoration for your home? (Bose anyone?) Or do you adhere to the standard that the end-result (in this case, audible characteristics) is the most important aspect? Why should anyone value your opinion if your level of sophistication doesn't rise above the "Rolex > Timex" argument? Come on. Either learn how to effectively argue or just stay quiet. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 259 Registered: Dec-03 | I don't know of any Timex watches with sapphire crystal or automatic movement. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 275 Registered: May-05 | What was the point of the thread again, T-Man? I've read along and I thought you had it at the beginning and somewhere in the middle and then we started talking about cars, watches and testerone. (Owned a Porsche once, although it was a 914, so does that make it a VW?) See, I can be sarcastic, too, aren't I grand? |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 733 Registered: Mar-05 | Thank you Ben, you see anonidiot, what you may think you know about a Rolex vs. a Timex is quite shallow. A Rolex possesses whats called an automatic movement. Quite impressive that a mechanical watch can keep up with 86,400 seconds per day and still maintain accuracy of one to five seconds a day. Of course it's not as accurate as your beloved Timex, but then again, it doesn't have the amazing quartz battery that the Timex has. I will say you got me on Porsche, that was silly of me and it will not happen again. Do you know the cost of a Subaru WRX vs. a VW? around 30 for the sube and 20 for the vw, does that have anything to do with quality?? In your rationalization I guess not. you said: I consider a membership here a waste of time, since you have to comb through the useless piles of uninformative and immature posts like yours. I would consider your membership here a waste of time too, considering all you do is come in a battle with me instead of spreading around and trying to at least contribute. then you said: I'm actually an audio-enthusiast who happened to be searching the internet for RELEVANT (notice the emphasis) audio reviews from users and owners, not from audio publications. Why then would you expect to get professional reviews of $80 dollar speakers. The website for the speakers you are so gallantly defending describe one of their speakers like this: SB-E800 Hi-Fi Speaker 3 way 500 watts base reflex, Those yellow Fiber glass cone don't just look good, they also delivers a very deep and powerful sound. Dual 6.5 woofer even make better base that a 10 inch woofer. And you want to waste all of you time (supposedly looking for good user reviews) bickering with me and backing up this weak company. Brass tax here bud is that you enjoy the battle rather than the forum. I will not contribute anymore to this and I am sorry to all those who may have wasted their time reading through this nonesense which I am just as much at fault for. |
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Mr. Bias Unregistered guest | Well, as long as you bring up automatic movement, Citizen EcoDrive and Sieko Kinetics both offer automatic movement. And does that sapphire crystal really improve time-keeping? Oh, and I have a circa-1960's Westclox wrist-watch that has a 17-jewel ruby movement. It probably cost somewhere in the region of most Timex models of the time. You still haven't proven the superior TIME-KEEPING properties of Rolex versus lesser priced watches. The fancy appearance and exorbitant price still offer no improvement in the FUNCTION of the wrist-watch over cheaper models. Get it? And the reason why this thread got so off-topic: people felt the need to post negative opinions about a product they hadn't listened to. All of these other topics came up as a lame excuse to prove why you can judge something you haven't experienced (in this case, speakers). |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 735 Registered: Mar-05 | Ecodrive harnesses light to fuel the watch, and seiko kinetics has a battery which is charged by a rotor, both of which are not automatic, god I cannot resist stupidity sorry. As far as sapphire crystal, it's one more quality component that you will find in higher priced watches. Simular to the higher priced drivers and components found in more expensive speakers that your beloved Sdat's mr Pang. |
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John Wagner Unregistered guest | YOU PEOPLE ARE MISSING OUT BIG TIME AND ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GIVE THEM A TRY |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1662 Registered: Jan-05 | I have a Seiko Kenetic watch, and it keeps great time For the $350 I paid for it, it better. Eye Candy watches have never been my thing so the Rolexes etc, etc.... have never been an interest to me. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1663 Registered: Jan-05 | As for the Rolexes, they keep terrible time...... They're costly mostly because they're jewelry. If jewelry is your thing, I suppose one of those would be perfect, so long as it matches your purse and earrings. |
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Mr. Bias Unregistered guest | "...cannot resist stupidity sorry. As far as sapphire crystal, it's one more quality component that you will find in higher priced watches..." You sound like a Rolex salesman. As for stupidity, yours is overwhelming, so it seems. You still have yet to come back with a solid response to the true debate at hand, and no, talking up the "special" features of Rolex watches does not prove your point. Rolex watches do not keep very good time - so what purpose do these "quality components" that you speak of serve? I said that claiming a Rolex is better than Timex is not a proper argument for justifying your opinion of products you have not listened to. (Plus "automatic" or not, all of these are alternative watch movements - you seem to highlight the least significant details, Joe!) The "quality components" of a Rolex (I cannot resist stupidity, sorry) do NOT enhance the FUNCTION of the timepiece. If you are dense Joseph, that means Rolex watches do not keep time "better" than other cheaper watches. What is the FUNCTION of a watch, you ask? For me, it's to keep time. What's the function of a speaker? To recreate recorded sound as accurately as possible. Rolex's fancy components obviously don't make them precision machines, so how does that directly compare to your higher priced drivers that you speak of? (NOTE: I'm not saying that higher priced drivers cannot sound better - BUT, you have failed to provide a logical or sensible argument towards that end.) (It's obvious that once someone has been proven wrong that they usually divert the topic along a different direction in order to save face.) |
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Mr. Bias Unregistered guest | "...cannot resist stupidity sorry. As far as sapphire crystal, it's one more quality component that you will find in higher priced watches..." You sound like a Rolex salesman! As for stupidity, yours is overwhelming, so it seems. You still have yet to come back with a solid response to the true debate at hand, and no, talking up the "special" features of Rolex watches does not prove your point. Rolex watches do not keep very good time - so what purpose do these "quality components" that you speak of serve? I said that claiming a Rolex is better than Timex is not a proper argument for justifying your opinion of products you have not listened to. (Plus "automatic" or not, all of these are alternative watch movements - you seem to highlight the least significant details, Joe!) The "quality components" of a Rolex (I cannot resist stupidity, sorry) do NOT enhance the FUNCTION of the timepiece. If you are dense Joseph, that means Rolex watches do not keep time "better" than other cheaper watches. What is the FUNCTION of a watch, you ask? For me, it's to keep time. What's the function of a speaker? To recreate recorded sound as accurately as possible. Rolex's fancy components obviously don't make them precision machines, so how does that directly compare to your higher priced drivers that you speak of? (NOTE: I'm not saying that higher priced drivers cannot sound better - BUT, you have failed to provide a logical or sensible argument towards that end.) (It's obvious that once someone has been proven wrong that they usually divert the topic along a different direction in order to save face.) |
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Mr. Bias Unregistered guest | Double posting? Sorry. Looks like I need "Forums for Dummies". |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 999 Registered: Feb-04 | I wrote: You've not going to find high grade components in crossovers if the entire speaker costs under $100. It's simply impossible. Right? TW replied: no it does not have a cheap crossover it is a very complex design considering they have a supertweater.It has 5 drivers thats a lot and if the crossover was cheap with that many drivers and making them blend and intergrate with each would be virtually impossible,the crossover is very good considering how they disapear and form a solid very large soundstage,and those are 2 things that most of the $1000 floorstanding dont do well,yeah many high profile names,not to mention clean accurate lease braking bass. Well, four caps from Solen and a pair of Auricap for the simple design in mine are over $50. That's what I was refering to. Hard to sell a pair of speakers for $85 if the caps in the crossovers alone are worth more than that. The chineese equivalent parts are obviously much cheaper. Are they nevertheless of high grade? TW says that they do the job. The regulars don't want to risk $85 to try the speakers out. TW, you say it's not a cheap crossover, but in fact it is since the entire speakers is cheap. Cheap means inexpensive, it doesn't mean bad. I also used bad terminology, asking whether they are of "high grade". We know they aren't as costly as Auricaps, but that doesn't mean they aren't as good. I'd be happy to see them compared to $250 speakers, and TW goes further and compares them to $1000 speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 260 Registered: Dec-03 | Wait ten years and see which has held its value better: a Rolex, Seiko, or Timex. Seiko's are ok, but not in the same class as a Rolex. Most Seiko watches have cheap cases, crystals, and bands. Timex is about two notches below Seiko. A Rolex is a lifetime watch. I know about Seiko and Timex because I have owned several of them. Paul, Blew the high school graduation money al Wal-Mart buying a Seiko, eh? Bias, Your chances of a timex lasting 10 years, looking good, and telling accurate time are about nil. Sorry, you made a bad argument. |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 41 Registered: Jul-05 | Man has this thread gotten bogged down. Timex, Rolex, VW, and Porsche aside, the original point remains; it isn't particularly wise to judge a loudspeaker without listening to it first. You can miss some pretty good bargains and end up paying more for something you don't like as well. Peter: That is the price you paid for the caps. I imagine a company that buys in the hundreds of thousands can negotiate a better price. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 518 Registered: Nov-04 | hehe, you guys sure know how to deviate from topic. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1000 Registered: Feb-04 | DA, you're quite right. But the point of speakers "made in China" is that they don't import caps from Canada, the UK, the US or elsewhere. They make their own. That costs even less. There's no way I could afford most of the stuff I have if it weren't made in China. It's quite possible that we'll all be driving cars "made in China" in 15 years. So, SDAT is marketing a sub-$100 speaker. It might compare to others costing twice as much, or 12 times as much. That seems to be the problem here. Most people have not heard it but find it dubious that they would compare to speakers costing 12 times as much (They are certainly not marketed that way). So the doubters express doubt, the followers get mad, the doubters respond, ad infinitum. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 370 Registered: Jun-05 | The 639 is a larger more complex than the $80 speaker,you guys already done 140+ posts on the 404.THIS IS ADIFFERENT MODEL,what is a matter with you guys this is a way better speaker than the 404.Are you guys reading the thread right,it clearly states the 639.Dave this it what happened to this thread they are talking about the wrong speaker just to put SDAT down,and they are always talking about being subjective,yeah right! |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 285 Registered: Feb-05 | That pretty much nailed it Peter. I would like to add though that in my electronics education and experience thereof I can tell you that the Koreans,Japanese and Americans manufacture the highest quality electronic parts. You get what you pay for. This is not my opinion this is a widely shared consensus amoung the electronics manufacturing community. This is why higher quality components like HK,which you and I both own, Denon and Marantz use Korean electronic parts in their equipment. I'm not here to judge the SDAT speaker as I have never heard or owned one but I'm sure their crossovers are made from cheaper Chinese electronic parts, which is why the can offer a speaker for so low a price. I also will say that I find it rather hard to believe that a floor standing speaker,that is worth a listen, can be sold for less than about $100-150. I paid $170 each for my DCM KX10's that by the way are both designed and manufactured here in the US. |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 42 Registered: Jul-05 | Eric: Out of curiousity, how did you arrive at that sum? Also, do you mean each, or per pair for the 100-150 figure? |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 286 Registered: Feb-05 | Well they are sub $100 speakers each aren't they? Yes I mean $100-150 each speaker. What kind of floorstander can you buy for $150 a pair?!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 43 Registered: Jul-05 | This kind can be sold for ~150 a pair. Fluance has a decent reputation too. http://www.fluance.com/fldycothhisp.html |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 44 Registered: Jul-05 | And from what I gather from other posters they are 250 a pair, so 125 each. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 287 Registered: Feb-05 | Yea I have seen the Fluance DA. 86dcBL sensitivity, not very efficient. I would like to give them a listen though. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1001 Registered: Feb-04 | Okay, sorry. They are not $80 speakers. They are $200 speakers... I got mixed up with all the SDAT threads. The rest of my argument still holds since the substantial difference (2.5x) nevertheless makes it an inexpensive speaker. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1002 Registered: Feb-04 | DA wrote: And from what I gather from other posters they are 250 a pair, so 125 each. $209 at www.bestronic.net |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 372 Registered: Jun-05 | It doesent hold because you have never heard them, so you have a invalid argument.See my argument against the Athenas is valid because I have heard them at my house,thats why you have never seen me say anything negative about the Ascends because I havent heard them. |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 45 Registered: Jul-05 | Whichever; 209 still puts it at over 100 a pop. Depending on how efficient and vertically integrated SDAT is, it could still be a decent speaker. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 288 Registered: Feb-05 | Congrats on going gold Peter! |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1003 Registered: Feb-04 | Tawaun, my argument wasn't about their sound. It was about their cost. They must cost more than the sum of their parts. That's all. Please don't read more than that into it. DA, absolutely. No disagreement here. I'm just trying to understand the dispute. I think it's about expectations. Tawaun is saying they are a lot better than we can expect for the price, comparing to 5 times the price. Some people (inclusing myself) are taken aback by the claim. That doesn't mean it's not possible; it just leads to lively debates... The fact that their web page isn't fully credible doesn't help. Eric, thanks! Took a year and a half; I guess I don't post often enough as relative newcomers like our good friend Art have long past me! |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 47 Registered: Jul-05 | Ehh my argument was just that they might be decent. I'm not trying to go compare them to $1000 speakers. I'll leave that up to Tawaun. And congrats on going gold. Wonder if you could go platinum if you get a million posts. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1666 Registered: Jan-05 | "Blew the high school graduation money al Wal-Mart buying a Seiko, eh?" ------------------------------- Does walmart sell $350 watches?? Actually, my Seiko was a gift from my wife for our 10th anniversary. She wanted to get me a gold watch, but I told her no. Then I snuck out and dropped $4,000 on a diamond anniversary band for her.....LOL I even managed to catch her completely by suprise. Arent I a sweety?? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1355 Registered: Mar-05 | > Then I snuck out and dropped $4,000 on a diamond anniversary band for her AHA!!! so THAT'S how Paul gets to keep his fugly old CVs and bring in equally behemoth SVS subs without a peep from his wife...it's got squat to do with "manliness" and "wearing the pants in the house," it's just a matter of BRIBING THE WIFE INTO SUBMISSION!!! LOL, your secret's out, buddy! |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 373 Registered: Jun-05 | As I was telling Edster earlier in the thread I, didnt like the way they were narketing such a good product.It scares audio people from taking the plunge thats why Im glad I bought them they were even better than I expected,sometimes we have to take chances,we certainly can do that and respect that if people are crazy enough to spend bricks of money on Bose. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1356 Registered: Mar-05 | Tawaun, I really think you should contact these SDAT folks and give them a piece of your mind. Since you work in the audio industry, surely they would take you more seriously than any of us random anonymous consumers? Like I said, I'd be more than happy to do a home audition of these things if they offered the same trial period like Ascend and Axiom do. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1672 Registered: Jan-05 | Actually, I gave her that ring Sept of 2001.(our anniversary is Sept. 7th) I think it's safe to say any bargaining power wore off a long time ago. Strangely, I remember that weekend very well, but not entirely because of our weekend. We took a 3 day weekend to a resort for a little anniversary getaway when I gave it to her, and I returned to work on a Tuesday......September 11th. Our second child was born late the following May, so I agree that she must have liked it. HEH |
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New member Username: Mr_biasPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-05 | Well - for the record, I'm now a registered user...I wanted to dispell the rumor that I'm an SDAT troll or "forum-phile". This is the first audio forum I've joined, and I hope to move away from this SDAT debacle, bringing with it only the desire to hear actual product users' opinions. I'm sorry for all the extraneous topics - it just seemed rather difficult to get my point across that, essentially, you cannot judge a book by its cover. So I suppose that's enough said from me on the topic. |
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