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New member Username: Stockton86Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-04 | My uncle enlisted me to find him a new set of 7.1 speakers for his medium-sized family room. I was told that price was not an issue. After some basic research on the best speakers at Infinity, Polk, Klipsch, Paradigm, and Kef, I talked with him again and realized that price was an issue. Well, actually, size was the real issue. So, I started looking at what the above companies had to offer in a small package. I have narrowed it down to: Infinity TSS-4000 (6 sat4000, 1 center4000, 1 sub4000) http://www.infinitysystems.com/homeaudio/tss_feature.aspx#text and Polk RM7300 (6 RM7300, 1 RM7302, 1 PSW505) http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/individual/onwall/all/rm7300/ Either setup is somewhere around 5 grand or so, but that's seriously a non-issue this time. Their receiver is the Pioneer VSX-56TXi with 110 watts x 7. Both the Polk and Infinity speakers seem to fit this amount of power acceptably. I realize that a separate amp would be wise to get the most out of either set, but I convinced my uncle that it wouldn't be necessary, at least initially. The physical dimensions of either set are very close and I believe either would work in their room. I'm smart enough to interpret most of the specs listed at the manufacturer's websites, but what I'm looking for is someone with actual experience. IMO, either set will play loud and clear, with great accuracy. My biggest concern is: Which set of small speakers will have the biggest (fullest) sound? I noticed that the midrange drivers in the 2-way Polk's are dual 4 1/2", whereas the 3-way Infinity's have dual 3 1/2" mids and quad 3 1/2" lows. The lowest frequency response takes after the driver size: 90hz for the Polk's and 120hz for the Infinity's. I'm sure the sub picks up the slack, but I think that's kinda tacky. I realize that any sub/sat system is going to have a problem generating low frequencies from the satellites and center, but I want this upgrade to be as noticeable as possible from my uncle's current set of old JBL's (looks like dual 3" and one 1", with some sort of bass-reflex design). So, when connected to the Pioneer, which set of speakers do YOU think will have bigger, better, fuller sound? P.S. If you plan on introducing a different set to compete w/ the two discussed above, please note that the tall, thin, wall-mount design of the satellites is required for this room (large (wide) speakers won't fit). Also, I'm not extremely concerned about the sub. I consider subs in a sub/sat system to be a practical but imperfect method of providing a medium-sized room with full-range surround sound. I'm interested in a set that puts out as full a range as possible AT EACH SPEAKER. Granted, a sub is perfect for the lowest of frequencies (it would be way overkill to have seven 12" subs in a medium-sized room!). |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 550 Registered: Nov-04 | polk and infinity is all you are looking at? I am sure there are many other manufacturers that can complement the tall thin trait. B&W has tall thin ones as does klipsch. you cant say you dont care about the sub because a bad sub can ruin a system regardless of "full range" it is. you can try velodyne, hsu research, svs for subs. all make very good subs. velodyne has a sub called the SPLII that has a foot print of less than a 1ft^2 even with a 12" driver. 5 grand on infinity or polk is a waste of money. try to stay away from crutchfield as you source of knowledge. if your uncle is serious about getting a new system with money as no object, going to a store is a much better idea. also i doubt money is no object for your uncle. you can easily hit $10,000 with that mind set. |
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New member Username: Stockton86Post Number: 3 Registered: Jun-04 | excellent advice! although klipsch didnt seem to offer anything in the right size/power range, the b&w FPM series is another possibility to add to the aforementioned polk rm and infinity tss. the only problem may be cost. you see, when i said "Either setup is somewhere around 5 grand or so, but that's seriously a non-issue this time" i meant that if the polk was a little more/less than the infinity, it didnt really matter as much as the quality and performance of the product. i found the b&w fpm6 for $900, but i'm still waiting to hear from the company if that's priced each or per pair. each might be a bit pricey. : ) i should also mention that when i said "I'm not extremely concerned about the sub" i meant just that. i did not, contrary to your implication, say that i "dont care about the sub". Had to clear that up. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 551 Registered: Nov-04 | out of curiosity, what is the driving force for getting the thin speakers? is it the looks or is he really crammed on space? if space is the issue i think it would be better to go 5.1 than 7.1 and spend the extra cash on better speakers. you can also try taking a look at orb audio. dont know if your uncle will like the look but i have heard they sound pretty good and are pretty small. i hear ya about the B&Ws. they definitely are not cheap. here is a link to the klipsch synergy slx series just in case you missed them. http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=936 any way to convince him to get bigger speakers atleast for the fronts? its gonna be pretty hard to get full range sound from tiny 4 1/2" drivers regardless of how many there are. you can also try planar speakers if space is an issue. try going to magnepan.com and take a look there. i believe they have a HT system you can order by phone with a 60 day return policy. |
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New member Username: Stockton86Post Number: 4 Registered: Jun-04 | the reason for the small speakers is only up front. the left and right can only be ~half a foot wide, not very deep, and wall mountable. they can, however, be fairly tall (mayabe as much as 3 feet). the center is a somewhat similar situation. it can be quite wide but only ~half a foot tall, not very deep, and wall mountable. there is more room for fun in the back, but i think youll agree that it would be wasteful and somewhat inferior to go bigger in the back. many say you can go smaller, but for the kind of systems im looking at its already quite small back there. so they can fit 7.1 b/c the size of the speakers is limited by the front. this a medium-sized room, if they got huge towers and a big center i would probably tell them that 2 hefty surrounds is quite enough, depending on price range. however, considering the size and price of the speakers that im looking at, i dont see any good reason not to go 7.1. i took a look at the companies you mentioned. orb might not be able to handle the pioneer or vice versa, plus ive got to believe that any of the 3 sets discussed previously will sound better. the magnepan speakers are very interesting but would most likely require a separate amplifier and might not fit physically. i ruled them out the slx series long ago for having a low power rating. klipsch offers a similar set (rvx) in the reference line that shares the same problem. i wish i could descibe the room and dimensions in more detail, but he lives two hours away and i havent been there since he told me to look for new speakers (on monday im going there to take another gander and perhaps some measurements...). this might help a little: most of his front wall is taken up by a projector screen. there is very little room on top, bottom, or either side. due to the specifics of the room, everything must be wall-mountable. i am sad to say that there is no room for floorstanding speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 554 Registered: Nov-04 | have you thought of using in-wall speakers? i am sure that the center can be mounted directly behind the screen so the size of that wont matter too much. i think the problem with wall mount will be how willing your uncle is to tear up some wall and ceiling to get the wiring run and the speakers mounted. it may look a little bit neater if he is willing to do it. i would personally go for the klipsch synergy if space was my main problem. i dont see how the klipschs would have power problems. the slx is rated at 100 rms and 300 peak and the rvx is rated at 150 rms with 400 peak. plus the klipsch speakers are much more effecient not requiring as much power to get the same loudness anyway. that makes them pretty easy speakers to drive. also, infinity and polk subs are some of the worst in the market. it would be ideal to get a sub from a sub only manufacturer. but that is my opinion. ask your uncle to take a trip to some local shops and get a good listen to the speakers. |
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New member Username: Stockton86Post Number: 5 Registered: Jun-04 | small in-walls may work. i havent completely ruled them out yet. however, hypothetically speaking, if an in-wall with a 5 1/4" mid is 6" wide and fits, why not go with a speaker from infinity, polk, or b&w that has a similar width but more height, more speakers, more enclosure, and hopefully more sound? this is assuming that were comparing apples to apples and the main difference between the hypothetic in-walls and tall thin towers is height and number of speakers, not quality of the product (i.e. someone COULD engineer an in-wall such as the one described above that would outperform all kinds of stuff, but no one would buy it b/c itd be too expensive. instead, companies use more practical methods of getting more sound such as more speakers and more enclosure). the center cannot be mounted behind the screen b/c there is a bow window. even if it could, i wouldnt recommend it to them b/c the screen and black-out shade may muffle the highs. i cannot think of a good reason to tear up the ceiling, but yes they are willing to run wires, and will be doing so no matter what set or configuration they choose to buy (no tacky wires all over the floor). ill agree to disagree about the klipschs' power handling problems. AFTER i decide which set of speakers im going to recommend, i will research subwoofers and find one thats appropriate for the set. maybe ill start a new thread for a good sub. but that is NOT this thread. in my first post, i said that im not extremely concerned about the sub. that is no longer accurate. i currently do not give a flying puck about the sub UNTIL i decide which set of speakers is best. as of right now, im trying to find someone who has an opinion about which set is best out of the rm, tss, and fpm. please support any opinions with evidence or at least with more opinions. christopher, i was hoping to avoid actually going to an ht shop and listening. i thought maybe i could post a thread comparing two sets of ht speakers and maybe some people would reply who owned one of the sets in question. or maybe even someone who has heard the sets. or maybe someone who has done a little research on the sets. or maybe, just maybe, someone who even TALKS about the sets in his EXTREMLY HELPFUL replies. obviously, im ungrateful for about about 90% of your replies. thats b/c im an immature 18-year-old who thinks that the said percentage of your replies is a waste of your time and my time. however, the other 10% was great! i cant thank you enough for reminding me to look at b&w! also, you have influenced me to DEFINATELY look into subs AFTER i decide on a set of speakers. Sorry for the rudeness, but thanks for the help! |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 558 Registered: Nov-04 | well in reality other peoples opinions mean very little because every room behaves differently and each person demands something different from their system. the easiest and quickest way is to go listen to them or have your uncle listen to them. if i had listened to them it would mean just as little as the specs that you find on the website. you get no idea if tweeter is too bright, bass too boomy, muddy midrange, imaging qualities, speed of bass, etc. and all those qualities are still sunjective to each person. sorry i cant be of much more help. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1455 Registered: Mar-05 | Jared, The Polk and Infinity packages should be available at your local Best Buy and Circuit City, both of which have very liberal return policies---the main saving grace of these big-box stores, really. I'd put both systems on your credit card and return the one you like less. The glaring weakness of most packages like these however is (among others) the subwoofer. That's why if I were in your shoes, I'd consider buying the subwoofer separately and just buy 5-7 (depending on how many surrounds you're looking for) cheap bookshelves. For instance: Athena AS-B2s $150/pair plus AS-C1 center $100 plus AS-B1s $100/pair (audioadvisor.com) http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/mfglisting.asp?hdnMfg=Athena+Technologies&MFGI D=218 Add to that the Hsu STF-1 for $300 or STF-2 for $400 and you'd easily blow either the Infinity or Polk system out of the water for not much more money! http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/ Sure this might not be as tiny as the Polk or Infinity setups but I'd bet money that it'd produce far better sound quality. Or if you absolutely must have tiny little sats then look at the Hsu Ventriloquist system for $300 plus sub: http://www.hsustore.com/vt12.html |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1457 Registered: Mar-05 | correction: the Hsu Ventriloquist is $200 if you buy it with one of the Hsu subs. |
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New member Username: Stockton86Post Number: 6 Registered: Jun-04 | thank you for your input ed. looks like theres no room for anything on the walls either. im at my uncles now and see that theres no good spot for a left or a center. im tellin ya this room is problematic. so, i looked into ceilings. we basically decided on the kef ci 200.2qt (thats close to the model #) b/c they seem like theyll actually image. called kef and asked a techies opinion if they would be overpowered by the 110x7 pionner b/c theyre rated at 100 and he said no yourre fine. also looked into speakercrafts pivoting rounds but these ci's are motorized = too cool. please reply if you feel this is a huge mistake or anything. i apolgize again to chris lee b/c it looks like he was really right on about the subs in the mainstream packages. i am pretty unexperienced and had a hard time believing that infinty could put out anything but an excellent sub for a grand. i love the kappas in my trunk, but obviously thats a different world. or maybe universe. |
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Silver Member Username: Touche6784USA Post Number: 570 Registered: Nov-04 | its all good jared. those KEFs are really cool. i have taken a look at them on the website a while back. car audio and home audio are pretty different worlds. infinity i know is highly regarded in car audio but in home audio, there are better choices. i would try and use in wall speakers for the front and have them placed at around ear level when in the watching position and use the ceiling speakers for surrounds. you may get away with putting the ceiling mounts in the front but you may notice it being alittle odd that all the sound seems to be coming from above and not from in front of you. dont worry about the over powering. all companies fudge their numbers to a degree, and plus we rarely use over 50 watts continously. for the sub, one grand gives you lots of options. with space as a premium look into velodyne spl II sereies like i mentioned above. you can get a 10" i believe 1000 watt sealed sub for about one grand. everyone will be jelous just for the sub. happy hunting. keep us updated on how things go. |