Archive through June 23, 2005
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New member Username: KbdawgPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-05 | Hi folks, I'm new to this site and would love some help. I'm setting up a home theatre system. I'm trying to choose between the Arcam AVR 300 and the Pioneer Elite VSX 56 TXI. I can get the Pioneer for ~ $900 less than the ARCAM. I would appreciate your advice on this choice. KB |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 437 Registered: Jan-05 | I personally would never buy 'euro' built stereo equipment. C'mon, as if the euros know how to build stereo components?????? Not hardly.... I compare the HT electronics industry to the movie industry.........Huh?........they make movies in europe too?? Sorry for my american bias, but I wouldnt even look at the Arcam. If they were any good, they'd be selling like hotcakes in the USA...........but they're not. There's a reason the Pioneer is sold worldwide, and Arcam can barely be found outside of the UK. Comparing Arcam to Pioneer is like comparing Microsoft to a small and obscure british software company. |
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Daniel Benatar Unregistered guest | KB, I will take the ARCAM with close eyes. You can't compare between the two receivers. Pioneer is a good one, but its not in the same league. As far as Paul's comment, my question and challenge - all of us know that Mercedes is better than Ford! But Ford sell more cars than Mercedes in all the world and in US. I hope you understand this analog. Bottom line, you pay for what you get, ARCAM is a better receiver than Pioneer from sound point of view. Pioneer is a good one and cost less. Enjoy, Daniel |
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Anonymous | KB, what do you prefer to perform in a concert?British band or Japanese band? I agree with daniel. Ford is something like Fix Or Repair Daily  good luck |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 443 Registered: Jan-05 | Daniel, Theres a big diffrence between industries. As far as Im concerned, all of europe has nothing of quality to offer in the Home stereo or electronics industries. They make nothing worthy of selling in the USA. Mercedes, however do sell in the USA. If you want to make an automobile comparison, it would be like comparing an american Ford to those many tiny pint-sized compact cars you often see roaming the roads in europe.......you'll never see them selling in the USA either. Anon, Neither.......Heh |
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Anonymous | Paul, I'm not asking you?btw where did you come from?You don't know you history? Your country owned by native indians! |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 445 Registered: Jan-05 | http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_noresults.php?form_keyword=Arcam+AVR+300 There is a reason for this.......... The truest test for any product is the ultra competitive American markets. Obviously this product isnt very good, because if it was, stores would be falling over themselves to stock Arcams. Markets have an efficient way of performing 'natural selection' through Demand, and thus weeding out inferior products. |
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RAK Unregistered guest | I completely agree with Paul!! |
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edster922 Unregistered guest | > Markets have an efficient way of performing 'natural selection' through Demand, and thus weeding out inferior products. My oh my, you are quite the optimist. Your optimism however does not explain the continuing huge success of Bose. > I compare the HT electronics industry to the movie industry.........Huh?........they make movies in europe too?? This is a poor analogy because the majority of European films are far superior to the majority of brain-dead Hollywood pulp. The only decent American films are independently made ("Sideways"), or made by subsidiaries of major studios posing as independents (e.g. "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" by Focus Features). > As far as Im concerned, all of europe has nothing of quality to offer in the Home stereo or electronics industries. I can't comment on this because I am not very knowledgeable on the higher end stuff but I have to remind you that many British speakers are known to be quite good. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 448 Registered: Jan-05 | Edster, Bose?......Hmmm...It only figures Dr. Bose is a product of MIT and the USA in spite of wherever he was born. Ok, lets not split hairs........any good product is either built, imported, or sold in the USA because it's the ultimate and most competitive market on this planet. If a product is good, guaranteed it will be selling here because those with money in their pockets would want it. My point isnt that everything good is domestic, but if it's good, it's available for sale. Geez, because the market is so lucrative, most imports arent even 'really' imports anymore. The vast majority of Toyatas, Hondas, Bose,Pioneers, yamahas etc.....etc....etc......that are sold here are 'in fact' built domestically.(in spite of 'once' being imports). Let's face it, the Ultimate market is here, and ARCAM is absent for a reason. If ARCAM were to 'attempt' to sell here in the US, the $1,000 receivers would eat them alive. ARCAM is way overpriced. The AVR300 would have to sell for about $700-$900 to even have a slim chance of survival here. It's of no shock that in spite of ARCAMs many years in business, they've kept to their small 'euro' nitch. As far as movies go...dont kid yourself. 95+% of all movies worth a darn came out of the US compared to other 'western' countries. The ultimate judge is the box office, and numbers dont lie. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 432 Registered: Oct-04 | "Ok, lets not split hairs........any good product is either built, imported, or sold in the USA because it's the ultimate and most competitive market on this planet. If a product is good, guaranteed it will be selling here because those with money in their pockets would want it. " I guess you have never visited Japan before. They are selling products they made as many as 10 years ago as new in the US. Stereo products from Britain such as NAD, Rotel, and Arcam are excellent. You Paul, obviously live in a bubble if you think the audio world revolves around the USA. |
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Bronze Member Username: RushwjPost Number: 13 Registered: Feb-05 | paul, where do you live that arcam does not sell well. In cincinnati a very nice store (audible elegance) stocks and sells plenty of arcams. cincinnati, oh is about as american as it gets and it supports a nice european receiver/amp/preamp. |
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Anonymous | Guys I think Paul can not afford the Arcam even he wants to.Maybe his budget fits only on cheap japanese receivers like yamaha(also manufactures heavy machineries),pioneer(also manufactures..epoxy?) |
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edster922 Unregistered guest | > As far as movies go...dont kid yourself. 95+% of all movies worth a darn came out of the US compared to other 'western' countries. The ultimate judge is the box office, and numbers dont lie. Come on, that's a truly dumb-@ss indicator of quality. By that standard, Britney Spears is a better vocalist than Norah Jones simply because she sells a lot more albums, Miller Lite is better than a real beer (Sierra Nevada, Guinness, Spaten, etc.), and Bose speakers are better than your beloved Cerwin Vegas. With few exceptions, the only thing that sales numbers reflect is how massive and successful the advertising/hype campaign is, and how idiotic the typical consumer is. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 454 Registered: Jan-05 | Im not talking about japan, nor did I say the US produces everything, because obviously we're big importers. As for them selling 10 year old receivers as new technology in the US.....LOL...yea, right. Europe is in the dark ages though when it comes to most forms of production. It's no wonder that most of the companies who make good products, have moved major facilities to other countries. It's not the peoples fault, but rather a socialist leaning govt stifling the entrepreneur spirit. It's no wonder unemployment and inflation is so out of control through much of that region. It's no wonder more volkswagons are made in the US than in Germany these days. I recently saw where Germany has double digit unemployment and rampant inflation. Gee, I wonder why??......it's their own fault. Affording ARCAM??....that's irelevent because I wouldnt take it for free. Plus, there are better receivers on the market selling for much less. If you're interested in a good high end intergrated receiver, look no further than the Denon-5805 or the Yamaha-xz9. Rotel and Nad arent even in the same league. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 647 Registered: Dec-03 | The Denon 5805 is more than twice the price of an Arcam 300--and the Yamaha z9 is also twice the price. It is like comparing the greater selling and cheaper Ford Taurus to a BMW 530i. I know which car I'd rather have my butt in. Arcam's are excellent. My only beef with that model (and a minor beef at that)is the lack of firewire for dvd player connection. But for those without a firewire dvd player it is a wonderful unit with top drawer Wolfson DACS and great stereo and surround playback. The only reason I would lean toward the less expensive Pioneer Elite 56Txi is the firewire (I have a firewire equipped universal dvd player), the ability to stream music from MP3's or from PC's via the USB port, and the advanced MCAAC speaker balancing and acoustic balancing circuitry with included microphone. But for those with an inexpensive Radio Shack SPL meter (~$45) they can accomplish much the same with their speakers. I'd be ecstatic to be given a complete Meridian system (made in the UK) from amp, preamp, dsp speakers, and dvd player. Meridian Lossless Packing (MLP) is the ultimate audio coding format that enables the highest possible sound quality in delivery or storage of high-quality audio. MLP has been adopted as the mandatory coding system to deliver the highest quality sound on DVD Audio and other formats. When Meridian talks, other manufacturers listen carefully. Their technology is at the top of the game--although certainly not cheap enough for most of the masses. Europe also makes some of the best speakers and definitely makes most of the best speaker drivers. ScanSpeak, SEAS, VIFA from Denmark and Norway and Focal from France. Many high end speaker manufacturers use their speaker components. Rotel, Arcam, NAIM all make solid equipment in the UK. The new Bang and Olufsen "Beolab 5" speaker is cutting edge performance and design.Siegfried Linkwitz in the US uses SEAS and VIFA tweeters and midranges for his top of the line Orion, which could well be the best speaker made for orchestral performances and at a bargain price for such a top notch speaker. Not to rave too much, but I think it is rather myopic to think the US and Asia are "The answer" for quality audio and video performance. There are good and mediocre components made everywhere. |
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Silver Member Username: MarkuspToronto, ON Canada Post Number: 110 Registered: Apr-04 | I honestly can't believe you would discount all European audio products as "crap". Most of the high end / higher end audiophile systems come from Europe including: • Naim • Linn • Primare • Bowers & Wilkins (B&W speakers) • Canton • Castle • Dali • Jamo • Arcam • Cambridge Audio • Creek • Cyrus • Dynaudio • Epos • Quad • Mission • Focal-JMLab • Triangle • KEF • Bang & Olufsen • Meridian • Mordaunt-Short • Musical Fidelity • Myryad • Opera • ProAc • Monitor Audio • PMC • Pro-Ject • QED • Rega • Rel • Roksan • Rotel • Ruark • Sennheiser • Spendor • TAG McLaren • Wharfedale Must have pretty limited experience with "good" sounding products to form that narrow opinion. Just because it can't be found in Best Buy or Circuit City doesn't mean it isn't worth buying. In fact, I'm usually of the opposite opinion - if it can be bought a either of these two stores, I typically don't want it. |
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New member Username: KbdawgPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-05 | Thanks for the input everyone. I really did not intend this to become a U.S. vs EU debate, but it was informative nevertheless. Any opinion on Jamo speakers? How do they compare to B&W or Sanus Fabre (assuming I spelled it right)? |
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Bronze Member Username: DpriwinPost Number: 36 Registered: Sep-04 | KB, your original post asked simply about opinions regarding Arcam vs. Pioneer. The typical questions here are, what speakers will you pair these receivers to? Have you auditioned them? What is your total budget? I have personally auditioned both the Arcam and Pioneer models you mention. The Pioneer is a great receiver that will perform beautifully for a large number of people. The Arcam is, in my opinion, one of the best, and most musical receivers you will find anywhere. Is it better than Pioneer? Yes, it is. Actually, it is worth the $900 difference and more. Can you be happy with the Pioneer? Certainly. Pair it correctly (see posts by Elitefan) and you will be VERY happy. Pair the Arcam correctly and you will be extremely happy. Search over to the speaker forums and see who is pairing Pioneer with what. Use that as a starting point and audition them. I have auditioned Arcam with a number of speakers (Vandersteens, Dali, Focal JMLab, Triangle), and it always sounds incredibly beatiful. Hope this helps. I doubt the previous discussions helped much at all. |
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New member Username: KbdawgPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-05 | Outstanding input Daniel. I really appreciate your guidance (and maturity). KB |
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Roger WW Unregistered guest | Paul, You are a very ignorant. Your comments very well show how mentally handicapped you are. I guess electronics sold at Wal-Mart must be the best in the world since they sell hundreds everyday. What kind of system do you own, a Durabrand ? Please shut up! You have nothing of value to offer to this forum. I live in the U.S. and I can tell you marketing wins over quality. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 465 Registered: Jan-05 | Each to his own........ If you're into obscure 'botique' & overpriced brands, then by all means.........have at them. Not only are they ugly, but most lack features and capability. It's no suprise they mainly sell on the 'other side' of the pond where they can survive in a less competitive market, and not here. You can have them....... |
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TheListener Unregistered guest | Paul, You don't have a clue about Arcam and other European audio equipments. Why don't you shut up and keep the b*llsh*t to yourself? We need to hear from some one who have experience with both Arcam AVR300 and other receivers such as Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, HK... If you have never heard of Arcam then shut the f*** up. We do not need your marketing analogy here. |
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TheListener Unregistered guest | Paul, You don't have a clue about Arcam and other European audio equipments. Why don't you shut up and keep the b*llsh*t to yourself? We need to hear from some one who have experience with both Arcam AVR300 and other receivers such as Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, HK... If you have never heard of Arcam then shut the f*** up. We do not need your marketing analogy here. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 453 Registered: Sep-04 | Hey guys cool it. Paul has an opinion and that's it. I agree that I think his view is blinkered, but we shouldn't tell him to shut up since the whole point of the forum is to have discussion. That said, Paul I hope you realise that your favourite music medium, the CD was invented by Philips and Sony together. Philips is a Dutch company. The previous biggest selling medium - cassette - was also invented by Philips. European products do seem to be more expensive than many others. As you say, the US is the biggest market and therefore, you have volume on your side, even for more esoteric kit like Krell, Audio Research, Mark Levinson etc. The US has an excellent indigenous high end fraternity and the Europeans likewise have a strong and well respected market too. It's just as hot in terms of competition. After all, the European market is pretty big too, just not as big as that in the US. Interestingly I don't see many US brands chasing the cheaper end of the market, but perhaps they simply don't come here since they've got their own fish to fry. The European products offer a different take on the whole subject. Ignore them if you will but variety is a nice thing to have so if you ever find yourself in a position where you can't find a piece of kit with which you are completely happy, don't discount the European (and American) products out of hand. You might be surprised at what you hear. Finally, people please get it straight. Both Rotel and NAD are Japanese brands...! Admittedly they use European designers for most of their stuff since they believe the best audio designers are here but they're Japanese run, Japanese manufacture and Japanese business. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 486 Registered: Jan-05 | Somebody questioned how Pioneer compared to ARCAM and I gave my opinion. Not only is ARCAM way overpriced, but the unit is ugly as sin, and it lacks in features. Pioneer would be a much better choice. For those than dont agree..........buy an ARCAM. I just happen to think that ARCAM is overpriced euro crap. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 454 Registered: Sep-04 | Paul, I cannot comment on the price since I am in Europe. I also accept that the Arcam has less facilities. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I know many people who cannot stand the current crop of Japanese models which appear to be of the bricklayer approach to design. If that's what floats your boat then that's fine. However, none of this is really important in the final analysis in my view. The really important things to me are these: * Backup * Sound quality Decent backup is really important to me. If I'm spending a month's salary on an item, then I'd rather like to be reassured that the item will have decent longevity and, should anything go wrong, that the problem would be resolved as painlessly as can be expected. Provided there is decent backup, then I would be prepared to accept pretty much any brand on its sonic worth. Different brands present music and surround sound in quite different ways, and there is quite a difference between the European, Japanese and American presentations generally. If the Japanese presentation is what floats your boat then enjoy it. However, it might be an idea to hear the alternatives - you may find that you prefer their approach and didn't know what you'd been missing. You may not of course, in which case all that's happened is that you've wasted an afternoon, but hopefully you may have learned that there is more to musical presentation than meets the eye. After all, if you don't sample the variety that life has to offer, there's little point in living it. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: ForeverblueToronto, Ontario Canada Post Number: 6 Registered: Jan-05 | Well stated in both posts Frank........ Everybody now can cheer up , right ! |
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seanb724 Unregistered guest | I'm about to purchase an avr300. I've read all the reviews and compared the product with others, and it meets all my needs. I did side by side listen tests with Rotel, NAD, Marantz, and the avr300 is amazing. In biamp'd mode on the fronts it is beyond amazing. Sounds as good as or better than most mid to high end separates I've listened to. All of the reviews have been stellar and if you still can't decide, find a store that has one and listen to it. Bring your own music and put it to the test. Yes it's expensive but I think it is worth it, especially if you like music as much as or more than movies. My current set up is an accurus amp/pre-amp combo driving magnepan mg-i's (just 2 channel music). I'm going to use the avr300 in biamp mode on the maggies, use the accurus amp to drive some deck speakers for zone two, and have a center channel (probably magnepan cc3) and rear surrounds. So a 5.1 configuration. /Sean |
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Bronze Member Username: RushwjPost Number: 17 Registered: Feb-05 | sean, check out the american distributer (if you live in the US) for their factory refurbs which knocks off $400 from the MSRP for the AVR300. I'm going to pick one up towards the end of the year and plan on getting in on one of those. Same warranty and all. http://www.audiophilesystems.com/ good luck and let me know how it sounds! -William Rush |
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Unregistered guest | KB, If you haven't already made your purchase,pick up a copy of the April 05 issue of Widescreen review.They call the AVR300 the "answer"."No matter what your desires and needs in surround audio electronics,the Arcam is the answer"The comprehesive 7 page review heaps tons of praise on the avr300.They also say "The $1999.00 avr300 is the best sounding surround processor I have ever tested,at any price,even sonically surpassing those other high-end processors selling for $5000.00 to $12,000." |
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Unregistered guest | KB, If you haven't already made your purchase,pick up a copy of the April 05 issue of Widescreen review.They call the AVR300 the "answer"."No matter what your desires and needs in surround audio electronics,the Arcam is the answer"The comprehesive 7 page review heaps tons of praise on the avr300.They also say "The $1999.00 avr300 is the best sounding surround processor I have ever tested,at any price,even sonically surpassing those other high-end processors selling for $5000.00 to $12,000." |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 469 Registered: Sep-04 | Blimey, I know the machine well and it's good but it's not *that* good! Arcam's own AV8/P7 (about $9000) knocks spots off it... Regards, Frank. |
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TheListener Unregistered guest | Frank, NAD is made in Canada and Rotel is made in UK. I am not sure if they have anything to do with the Japanese... Paul, you opinion is not convincing because you have never heard of the Arcam AVR300 yet. Your reasoning is not related to the primary purpose of the equipment, which should deal with the sound quality, it's not about the price or the marketing trend of the product. With much cheaper price and more features that the Japanese products which mostly made in China or Malaysia you can be happy and think you are smarter than other. But the reality is that you don't know what kind of differences in quality that the more expense product such as Arcam AVR300 can be. The bottom line is you get what you look for, more features and cheap pricing or having a trade-off for higher sounding quality. What do you think about the new Denon AVR 5805? It is just as feature rich as the cheaper receivers but if you think it is overpriced too ($6000 US) then your argument makes no sense at all. You know what I mean? The Arcam AVR300 is no slouch for its price. But if you are talking for both features and quality then the Denon AVR 5805 which cost much more will give you both worlds. You mentioned that the AVR300 is only worth $700 - $900 new, I wish you a lot of LUCK in even touching a used one for under $1200. It's obviously that you don't know what you are asking for. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1752 Registered: Aug-04 | TheListener NAD is made in China! |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 470 Registered: Sep-04 | NAD is owned by Lenbrook in Canada but it's a Japanese (and Japanese-run) company with design centres in Europe and manufacturing in China (and Japan I believe). NAD was bought by Lenbrook just a couple of years ago and bought it as part of their portfolio of companies, not to run it. Hence I still consider NAD to be a Japanese company. Rotel is a Japanese company with a design centre in the UK and manufacturing in the far East (I think it's still Japan). Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 401 Registered: Feb-04 | Thanks Frank. In any case, many receivers are now made in China, including Marantz, so I'm not sure what My Rantz's point is. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 550 Registered: Jan-05 | If you read, you'll see that I've never commented on the ARCANTs sound. But Features??? Geez... The arcam is as feature 'poor' as any receiver in it's price range, not to mention it's the ugliest hunk of metal on the market. They should rename it the ARCANT, since it does so little. It's nothing more than a 'botique' overpriced UK hunk of metal. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 551 Registered: Jan-05 | The Listener obviously does not know of what he speaks. |
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TheListener Unregistered guest | Here's the look of the arcam AVR300. http://www.arcam.co.uk/images/diva_ARV300_large.jpg http://www.arcam.co.uk/images/diva_AVR300_rear.jpg I agree that the price is high and you get less features. What you do get out of the AVR300 is the sound that not any receiver in it's price range can beat. Forget about cheaper receivers, you could have more features with them and feel happy for the price. But many other people may prefer the sound of the AVR300. I just let them know that there is a significant difference in the sonic quality. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 406 Registered: Feb-04 | TheListener, Good for you for not taking Paul's bait to respond in kind. |
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TheListener Unregistered guest | All Paul did was to attack Arcam product. He made very unfair comparations with the Denon 5805 and Yamaha z9. Yet he want them cheap and more features. The bottom line is that Paul's opinions are irrelavant and very unrealistic. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1753 Registered: Aug-04 | "In any case, many receivers are now made in China, including Marantz, so I'm not sure what My Rantz's point is." Peter, The Listener said NAD was made in Canada - I merely stated that in fact they are made in China. Quite simple really - no point - and nothing I said referred to any other brand. And yes, just about everything these days is made in China. Sad really. |
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bumblebee Unregistered guest | what's wrong w/ being made in china? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1763 Registered: Aug-04 | 'bee, "what's wrong w/ being made in china?" Nothing from a manufacturing/quality point of view. It's just sad that the world needs to use cheap Chinese labour to remain competitive. I'd rather keep people employed, pay a few more dollars rather than send work elsewhere and do people out of jobs. That's my gripe! |
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bumblebee Unregistered guest | rantz, i can see your point. but globalization has it's sad effects on us too. while you lost jobs, we lost our local industries. oh, im from a third world btw, so be nice to me as for paying a few more dollars, i may have to disagree. decent entry level salary in my country is just about 220USD. per month. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1764 Registered: Aug-04 | Bumblebee, That's another point. Companies are taking advantage of the low wage levels in third world countries. But, it is only rational for us to think on a local level (wrongly or rightly) as I'm sure you do the same. We have had industries disappear here in oz also because of cheap overseas imports. I know it's a two-way street but sometimes it seems there's much more traffic on one side. I don't have the knowledge to give an answer or qualified opinions to these global problems and I apologise for getting of thread here. |
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bumblebee Unregistered guest | My Rantz, i very much appreciate your inputs. but that's business. guess we just have to put up w/ it. oh well, back to topic. i wish i could afford that arcam. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1766 Registered: Aug-04 | "i wish i could afford that arcam." Ditto! Cheers |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 562 Registered: Jan-05 | I side with bumblebee and agree with world economy concepts. The economy is ever changing and people need to be continually evolving their skill-sets to keep up with an ever changing global market. The days of 'clocking-in' down at the local plant for 30 years and collecting a pension are over and people need to get with the program by getting trained for todays modern economy. If india can offer a product or service at a better price, they deserve the contract!!! If we(the USA)cant do better, nobodies fault but our own for losing those jobs over seas. If they have the cheap labor, by all means, let them do the labor work. The USA has one of the worlds best economies with only 5% unemployment and folks are complaining because they closed the run down obsolete plant in their hometown where they've worked for the past 25 years. Those people need to take responsibility for themselves and get trained 'where the work IS'. If they dont evolve their skills, the maket will pass them by and they only have themselves to blame. How many other nations can claim unemployment rates under 6%???? Not many, that's for sure. Heck, Germany has double digits this very moment, not to mention less developed nations. Heck....we've got it good. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 667 Registered: Dec-03 | I am personally not complaining (as I have been fortunate), but here in the US it doesn't take a genius to notice the ever-widening gulf between the haves and have-nots. Oddly enough, many of the have-nots vote for policies that benefit the haves. Why would anyone without a 3.5 million dollar estate support repeal of the estate tax? Who better to tax than a corpse that has benefitted from being a citizen in the US? Many used to have well paying jobs in the auto industry and other manufacturing industries that afforded them to send their kids to college. Good paying manufacturing jobs have disappeared in the last 2 decades at an alarming rate. These were well paying jobs for the non-college educated and even the college educated. Most have been replaced by low paying service sector jobs, such as stocking, clerking, and register work at Walmart and other big box stores and numerous other clerical and fast food and not so fast food jobs. Yes, the well educated will mostly be able to eventually land half decent employment, but the days of good paying jobs for those less educated or those without the advanced educational skills is passing quickly. Heck, the average IQ is 100. Think what that means. I fear we are becoming more like Mexico: a bigger upper class, an ever shrinking middle class, and a considerable lower class. The Federal and State governments need to bring back education in the vocational fields for those without the abilities or desire to be in biotechnology or other high tech fields. There eventually will be big socio-economic problems ahead if the vast majority of people no longer feel they can partake in "The American Dream". |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 473 Registered: Sep-04 | Anyway, the Arcam AVR300 is made in China along with the AVR250 and the AVR200 before it... Paul, it's not the features that sell the Arcam, it's the quality of the sound. This is also true of any higher end kit, wherever it's made. You should notice that generally speaking features get reduced as you go into higher end products. The reason for this is usually quite simple - the less there is in the signal path, the better the sound. The feature set on the Arcam is the minimum required to give you an excellent quality of sound at home. I accept that automatic setup, firewire connections etc are nice things to have, but not if their addition lowers the cost of the internal components and degrades the sound. After all, alll the money spent on features that aren't used is money wasted. Most people will play with the features (and all those DSP settings for a few weeks and then settle down to use simply DD, DTS, DP and possibly one pseudo surround program. They usually have up to 5 sources, not all of which require video. If the money spent by the manufacturer on the extra features were spent on better quality components, like Arcam's over specced power supply (never mention that do they?) or their higher quality output transistors, you'd get a much higher quality sound, and at the end of the day this is what you want. Arcam doesn't make 'boutique' products. It makes value for money products at sensible prices. The question isn't just about features, but also to how effectively the product *performs*. They don't all sound alike. Listener, I think that Paul's attitude is entirely relevant, partly because his attitude is shared by many of his fellow Americans (and not a few Europeans for that matter). They form the vast majority of the entire market in fact, so every convert away from that thinking is a win for quality, which is what I'm after. As to the subject of the US market, it is indeed a huge market and most manufacturers would want to be in there. However, no manufacturer would want to take America by storm. That would be suicide. One needs sustained growth rather than explosive growth, otherwise one won't fulfill orders on time and quality of production would drop as is usual when explosive change happens. Arcam are slowly but surely expanding their operations and in ten years or so I would not be surprised if they had become a lot more commonplace in the US, proivided the HiFi market has survived that far! As to building things in the Far East, spare a thought for the UK where MG-Rover group has just gone into receivership and a workforce of 5000 has just been made redundant. Now I know 5000 isn't many, but this is the end of a homegrown industry building cars including makes such as MG, Triumph, Rover, Bond etc. The government had been in talks with a major Chinese manufacturer to come in and buy MG-Rover. The talks failed and all those workers are out of a job. Now that they've been made redundant, the Chinese company has stated it would like to buy the remains so it can build MG-Rovers in China! I accept this is business, but we now have to retrain 5000 employees and in the meantime it's the state (tax payers) who have to pay for those employees' families not to go hungry. The other thing to bear in mind is that we want a better standard of living. This costs more money, so those employees have to have a higher pay than athe same employee in China since their cost of living is so low. You can't have it both ways - either have the better standard of living with its higher associated costs or put up with a lower standard of living. Germany has one of the highest standards of living in the world (higher than the UK or US). Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 573 Registered: Jan-05 | Gregory, Dont get me started..... The US is the only industrialized country in the World that consistently double taxes its citizens (see death tax and capital gains tax etc...). Taxing individuals for receiving money that was already taxed once before is absolutely sick, and it effects many more people than certain politicians suggest. Its not fair and it is not right. YOU also pay corporate taxes(implicitly through higher priced goods). Do you actually think your boss pays half your Soc. Sec. and medicare/aid?...no you do, implicitly in the form of lower wages. Congress has fubar'ed our tax system. There is much room for improvement and the death tax is one area that needs to go. Those most hurt by the deathtax are small business owners, farmers, and regular people who have saved and already paid there fair share. Eventhough I am far from rich, I'll have scratched enough together by my 'golden years' to be effected, and the govt has no right stealing from my children. The Govt needs to stay out of the private sector. Their only responsibility to the economy and job creation is to create an environment attractive for those who wish to open up and create new small businesses........hense, creating jobs. Those who push policy that essentially bites off the hand that feeds us are only hurting themselves and the economy. You ask, why would someone vote for repeal of the death tax if ones personal estate is not directly effected?? Lots of reasons!! You're obvously not seeing the big picture. There are 25million small family owned businesses operating today in our country, and it's no suprise that the livihood of the 'majority' depend on their success. Sure, go ahead and 'nail' the rich guys(those who own small businesses and create the majority of jobs) and you'll find yourself in the unemployment line. Sure, go ahead, stick it to the Entrepreneurs who build and create things(products/services/jobs), and they'll take their money and build elsewhere. Did my discussion just evoke the topic of mass exporting of jobs??? Like I said before, dont get me started. Politics is where I earn my living, and if you get me started, I might not stop. I guess I should have mentioned that my job is raising funding for a business lobby who represents small business owner s in DC and in each state capital. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 574 Registered: Jan-05 | Frank, That's a tough break. Businesses will move to a 'climate' where it's most attractive to do business. Apparently, the UK wasnt it. For many of the very same reasons, many US jobs are moving in the same direction and it's no accident. It's just a fact of reality. Sure.......stick it to the 'evil' corporatins, and they'll end up either out of business, or moving elsewhere. "Sticking it" to the business sector is not how you create jobs which is exactly what the Socialist party in the UK(democratic party in US)strive to do. Businesses will only build/create things if the environment is attractive enough for them to risk their personal resources to do so. It takes a lot of guts starting a new business because of the incredible financial risk involved. Bite the hand that feeds you, and they'll take their money/jobs elsewhere. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 474 Registered: Sep-04 | The propblem is that the environment has changed over time. The UK has seen dwindling heavy industry for many years. Whole areas of the country, particularly in the North, have suffered with up to 100% unemployment. Many still have upwards of 50% unemployment and this is draining the country's resources. At the same time we need to provide workers with jobs that will pay enough to maintain our cost of living where we pay the equivalent of $6.50 for a US gallon of petrol and $7 for a packet of cigarettes and the average house costs the equivalent of $260,000. Higher salaries require higher qualifications typically, and thus the country is moving further into service provision than anything else. I don't know what the solution is, and I accept that it's not looking rosy for businesses, but without businesses the economy will fail so we're damned one way or the other, especially if we try to keep our spending under control. At the moment it's relatively under control - at least it's not the crazy trillion dollars the US owes (incidentally, this is how the US manages to keep going - nobody's big enough to call in the cheques) but it's a heavy burden to bear, so taxation is high. I wonder what would happen if the US actually tried to address the their trillion dollar deficit... Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 575 Registered: Jan-05 | Frank, You should complain to your govt!! It's the socialists party who have imposed severe 'penalty' taxes on both Cigs and petro in the UK. Sure, your gas will always be more expensive because you live on an island, but the majority of that cost difference was imposed by your very own govt in the form of a penalty(consumption tax). We would never stand for such penalties on ths side of the 'pond'. Does the majority even understand what consumptions taxes make up such a large portion of what they pay at the pump??? You should be picketing the buckingham palace!!!! Sure, the parliment moans about the rising oil prices, and how the 'poor helpless' citizens are suffering, but do you think for a moment they would consider lowering the penalty taxes to ease the suffering of it's very own people???.....notta chance!! Not without immense pressure by the people!! BTW.....I paid $2.05/gallon yesterday in Missouri. I dont smoke so I couldnt tell you what cigs cost. I will say this though.........your paying $7/pack has nothing to do with cost of the product. As for the unskilled labor?? If they're not willing to train for themselves for todays economy, well.........they'll be left flipping burgers at McDonalds and there is nothing much to say. Nobody owes them anything. Somebody has got to flip burgers, right? It's a shame that MG-Rovers is now gone, but dont kid yourself about the govt trying to help because they fell asleep at the wheel by not doing anything until it was already too late. The UKs very own 'consumption and penalty tax' policies did more than it's own share of shipping those 5,000 jobs overseas. People lose jobs, the govt loses a revenue source, and everybody loses..... |
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TheListener Unregistered guest | I paid $2.63/gallon yesterday in California. I don't smoke but a Cig pack is around $4.00 here. There's a plus and a minus in each govt. We don't have life time unemployment and health benefit here in the US. I guess that's why the unemployment rate in the US is low. I know that poeple in France, Canada, Australlia, can be elligible for unemployment and health benefit for life. Some people like that and some don't. You can work all day and all nite in the US to make as much $$$ as you can. But I heard that there's not much chances to do more work in the Europe.... |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 581 Registered: Jan-05 | Oh yea?? I was just in Carlsbad for a little R&R earlier this month. I agree that Cali is one of the most highly taxed states. That seems to be a trend in the traditional 'blue' states. Beautiful area, but whoah....that I-5 traffic is terrible!! I cant imagine rewarding lazyness with lifetime benefits.......It makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it, and Im glad I live where I do. KNowing my tax dollars were paying some schmuck to lay around his whole life would really grate me. |
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TheListener Unregistered guest | Here's a link the the current gas pricing in Northern California. http://www.sanjosegasprices.com/index.aspx?s=Y&fuel=A&area=San%20Jose%20-%20Nort h&station=All%20Stations&tme_limit=60 |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 583 Registered: Jan-05 | I was thinking it was around $2.45'ish in the SanDiego area when we visited early this month. I thought it was quite reasonable considering the usually high prices in cali. |
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Sav Unregistered guest | I just purchased the Arcam 300 with a NAD DVD and Dynaudio speakers. The system rocks. KB you owe it to your ears to listen to one live before you pull the trigger. As for Paul he needs to get his hearing checked. |
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Bunny Unregistered guest | Sav....of course it Rocks... you have a very nice system ! ...on the other hand...what does Paul know about quality gear? Yamaha, some old Cerwin Vegas....come on ! lol the guy is clueless |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 965 Registered: Jan-05 | I wouldnt dare plug my new 'behemoth' sub into one of those overpriced, under-featured, and ugly looking receivers. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-theater/136710.jpg This monster SVS has brought new life into my HT, so yes....my opinions can evolve over time, but Im not budging on the stripped down vanilla Arcam. If you'd prefer a featureless, plain jane, stripped and gutted HT experience, the arcam will probably be a perfect choice. It would however make a terrible choice if your primary interest is HT. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 533 Registered: Sep-04 | Paul, I so wish you were in my neck of the woods. I'd show you what real quality sounds like and you'd be gobsmacked. Extra features give you nothing - haven't you ever heard of the expression 'less is more'? In the case of HT/HiFi it's so true it's not even funny. I mean, you don't see a racing car sporting aircon and sound system do you, reason being they're trying to extract the ultimate performance - and it's exactly the same with HT manufacturers. Furthermore, in my view the Arcam's HT performance outstrips that of most of the big players in HT field anyway, so I really don't get where you're coming from on this issue. I am afraid you and a lot of your fellow Americans are going to come down to earth with a very big bump in the coming years. Neither you, nor the rest of the world can continue consuming the earth's resources and polluting the earth's atmosphere at the current rates. The earth simply won't sustain us in this way and we will have to develop more friendly methods of getting ourselves around. What concerns me is that I think the US won't cotton on until they've lost most of the New York bay area when the polar cap has melted! Taxing our fuel is a natural way of gaining revenue whilst making us more aware of what we're using. Taxing cigarettes and alcohol is a way of raising awareness of health issues - and raising revenue. If the govt didn't do this, they'd not be able to pay for the free cancer treatments (caused by cigarettes), the free alcohol abuse clinics (caused by...alcohol) and free transplants for alcohol abuse patients etc. It's a different system which happily brings about a certain amount of social responsibility. I'm not suggesting that this is what the govt uses it for, but if it didn't it would tax us in other ways, and this usually boils down to resource taxes - i.e. income, fuel, water, food - with tax breaks for those who need them. We cannot continue being socially childlike and the most powerful, most pollutant nation on the earth needs to get in line in order to bring its considerable resources to bear in considering the way forward for the future of the living earth. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 501 Registered: Feb-05 | Frank, I agree with you on the Arcam and the less is more theory when it comes to audio. I want as little aspossible to get between me and the artists intent. I also want the cleanest sound I can get, and Arcam AVR's produce the ccleanest sound under 2k. I also like B&k but that is a few more nickels. However the rest of your post belongs elsewhere. I understand your getting a bit excited and letting off some steam. By the way everything here in the U.S. is taxed incuding fuel and cigarettes. Paul, if you stuck an Arcam in your system today you'd have the same transformation relative to it that you did with the sub. Believe me Paul someday when you get speakers etc you will be amazed at how much you've been missing. I mean that in the best way because I know that eventually you will come around. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 967 Registered: Jan-05 | I guess if less is more, then the arcam is best. If only they made it into a plain silver box with only a power button, it would be perfect. BTW, I've listened to all sorts of expensive speakers, and they didnt impress, or else I would have bought something. No, I didnt listen to every darn brand on the market, but I listened to enough pricey speakers to know I didnt like what I was hearing. As for Franks wacko and far-left liberal leaning views, sorry, there's no hope for you, and thank God you dont live here in the states because as it stands now, too many of our own population are wackos like yourself, and I prefer to keep that number low enough to keep their wacko-nutjob leaders voted out of office.(like things are now) Thank heavens, they're increasingly losing more and more lections. At the rate they're becoming unemployed, the GOP will have a 60% stronghold in both the senate and house(including the white house again&again)by 2012. Can you say filibuster?? LOL...those weak pathetic fools arent even strong enough to do tha!! They were smart by 'caving' in like patsies, because they would have been stripped of even more powers if they hadnt. They knew that 'caving' was necessary to spare themselves of even more humiliation. The GOP would have swatted their pathetic attempt like a fly, and in fact.....thats what happened but they only needed the small 'fly-swatter'. BTW, I also thing it's hilarious how the Brits nail themselves with petrol consumption taxes so they can pay $6/gal of gas. What makes it so funny that the consumption tax has no effect on consumer demand, hence....making it 'effectively' noneffective and worthless since it doesnt curb anything. All you get is a lighter pocketbook, and the environment sees no benefit. .............congrats! hahahahahahahaha |
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Bunny Unregistered guest | I finally agree with Paul ! He is right, there are a lot of wackos in this country....he is one of them ! again.....clueless.. LMAO |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 968 Registered: Jan-05 | Actually, those with my beliefs had landslide victories last november, so we are the strong majority. If the other side had won seats in both the house and senate, you would have a valid claim. If I have been in the minority, then the term wacko could apply to me but that is not the case since the 'other side' was taken to the cleaners. Nothing made me happier than seeing many long standing DEM senate & house leaders losing their jobs last november. The best was seeing the Senate DUMBocrat leader Daschle losing the job he held for 18 years. LOL..... Their own 'leader' got fired by the people!!! ahahahahahah |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 540 Registered: Sep-04 | Paul, that just makes you one of the more gullible sheep. Fact is, the consumer tax (as you call it) on petrol has had a significant effect on the kinds of cars being bought new in this country. For example, whereas diesel cars were only a tiny fraction of all cars bought ten years ago, diesels now account for over 30% of all cars bought. Consumer demand for petrol has dropped even though we are driving more cars than ever before. Consumer demand for diesel has gone up significantly, but at least we're not using as much fuel as we would if the average car was a 4 litre Buick averaging 20 miles per gallon (and only developing 200bhp in the process - what a waste). Art I did realise that the US taxes fuel and cigarettes. It's just the rate of tax I have a problem with. I'm quite sure that if the average US citizen was paying $6/gal, the number of cars with monster engines (anything over 2.5 litres would be a big engine) being bought would be a lot lower... This would be lowering emissions, and smog-ridden cities like Los Angeles would begin to clean up their air. My point is this: many Americans have a very US-centric point of view which is understandable since it's such a large country in of itself. I was trying to get Paul to understand that there is a world out there which has a very different viewpoint to the Americans (just ask most of the Arab world) and that - diue to natural limitations of the earth's resources, the Americans may find themselves woken up very suddenly, which is never a nice experience. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 975 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL.......You sound as if you're quoting the garbage rag(BBC)talking points. They're even more ignorant than CNN or Dan Rather are over here. The UK is no less a fuel glutton now than it was 10 or 20 years ago. Stop kidding yourself. Enjoy your self imposed $6 gallons. After all, you asked for it, so enjoy and drink up. You have to pay for your inferior government 'social medicine' somehow, so you might as well allow your many penalty taxes help fill the coffers. That's just what everybody needs, a clock punching federal employee performing heart surgery funded in part by gasoline taxes.......HEH |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 237 Registered: Dec-03 | Probably too late, but If I was to compare Arcam to Pioneer Elite in terms of fidelity...Arcam wins, hands down. Just about anybody who has actually heard both will, most likely, agree. Pioneer Elite does a decent job with DVD players, but I have never heard a Pioneer Elite receiver, amp, or CD player that has come close to the Arcam equilivant. The reason that you see more Pioneer Elite stuff in the US is probably due to the fact that Pioneer will distribute to just about anybody who will carry their lines, even in the same city. BTW, I'm American. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 570 Registered: Mar-05 | Paul, If Frank is "quoting BBC talking points" then it could also be said that *you* are "quoting Fox News talking points." Oops, misspelling there. It's FAUX News...god, what a freakin' joke those people are. And if you think CNN and CBS are "liberal" then you have no idea what a "liberal" really is. The NY Times and Washington Post are NOT liberal either, they are centrist with a couple of liberal op-ed writers just like the Wall Street Journal is centrist with a slew of rightwing editorial page writers. Just because a newspaper or TV station is not as far-right wacko as Faux News or The Washington Times does NOT mean it's "liberal"---these are just your typical mainstream corporate media. You want liberal, read Mother Jones, The Nation, or best of all, Noam Chomsky. I'll bet you've never heard of Noam Chomsky, have you? That's because the so-called "liberal media" like the NYT, WP, CNN etc. don't have the cojones to writing like his. I recommend you watch the documentary "Manufacturing Consent"---excellent analysis of just how pathetic the American news media really is, across the board. I have to give it to the British, aside from their daily tabloids their journalism is of a far higher standard than ours. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 571 Registered: Mar-05 | Frank, I don't think you'll make much headway with Paul, he's basically a good guy but basically very simple-minded and I'll bet money that he's never experienced life outside of the US at least not in any Western industrialized country. Unfortunately this is very typical of my fellow Americans, they are hopelessly provincial and all they know of the outside world is whatever 30 second news clip about the latest war or catastrophe going on. This coupled with massive doses of nationalistic propaganda to pat themselves on the back for being so lucky as to live in America, often blinds them to the fact that more enlightened Western democracies manage their societies far more efficiently and more humanely than we do. The typical provincial American's world view is that outside of the US there is only Third World hell-holes, communistic hell-holes, or socialistic hell-holes. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 572 Registered: Mar-05 | PS. I should qualify that with "many" of my fellow Americans...most of the 52% who (finally) elected Bush in 2004 at the very least. |
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Bunny Unregistered guest | Ok, Please everyone, I am hopping nobody things that many people living in this great country (U.S.A.) share Paul's feelings or ideas, he is obviously and ignorant moron who does not have the slightest idea of how great other countries are. I have had the opportunity to visit the UK and other nations in the EU and just let me say that they are great Countries with great people. Hey Frank, Nothing like having a beer at Piccadilly Plaza in London ! |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 978 Registered: Jan-05 | You better have that beer quick because I read where the UK was going to do away with happy hour specials http://www.4ni.co.uk/nationalnews.asp?id=40772 I guess having others make decisions for you is a good thing, right? Whats next, are they going to ban smoking in pubs, or has that already been done? BTW, I dont even smoke and I think it's a silly topic. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 239 Registered: Dec-03 | Paul, I see no point in what you just wrote. Not every U.S. state allows Happy Hour pricing. The U.S. also has various level of blue laws regarding alcohol sales both at both the state and local level. You can't smoke in public places in several U.S. cities. How does that make the U.S. better? |
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Bunny Unregistered guest | Paul, Sure I will have a Carlsberg and I will enjoy it to the Max ! .....have you had a beer (Other than Miller Lite) anywhere outside your neighborhood? Probably not.... You are right; it is a silly topic, as silly as you are.... |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 979 Registered: Jan-05 | Carlsberg isnt bad. And no, I prefer to drink real & full bodied beers and not those watered down 'excuses'. Lately, the flavor of choice has been a local brew. http://www.blvdbeer.com/product_set.html The Pale Ale is extra yummy |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 543 Registered: Sep-04 | Bunny I'm sorry, Miller Lite is not beer... Paul's is anything but a unique opinion in the US, and it's shared by many on Capitol Hill including the head honcho, which is why GW is viewed as a rather pathetic figure here. Guys, don't come down on Paul. It's not fair, and he's entitled to his (blinkered) opinion. Paul, actually the people doing away with happy hour are the pubs themselves. They were not pressured into doing it, no idea why either. They're claiming it's to clamp down on binge drinking which is a real problem in parts of this country, but I wonder whether there's an economic reason behind it - they're businesses after all. Carlsberg isn't beer either... Those beers and ales on that site look very interesting and more in keeping with English beer. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 240 Registered: Dec-03 | If I was in England, I would opt for a Budvar. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 982 Registered: Jan-05 | I read somewhere that English are notorius for putting down a lot of beer, but also the reason was that many of their beers are watered down. The article said that many of the beers were only around 3.2%. Any truth to that? Hmmmm...where's that link. BTW, Im just pulling your chain. I have nothing against people on the other side of the pond. Just a few of their foolish socialist gov'ts. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 585 Registered: Mar-05 | Ben, I hope Budvar travels better to the UK than it does to the US. Here it's sold as "Czechvar" and like its compatriot beer "Pilsner Urquell," tastes fairly awful in comparison to the indescribable nectar it is when freshly tapped in Prague. Seems that the only beers that travel well are the ales, especially the India Pale Ales...yum! |
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Victory HopDevil Unregistered guest | Seems that the only beers that travel well are the ales, especially the India Pale Ales...yum! Gee.. I wonder why that is. |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 241 Registered: Dec-03 | I had Budvar in Dublin, lots of it. It was fantastic. It was in brown bottles, which is better for beer. I do agree that Budvar is better than Czechvar. Part of this may be due to the fact that it is imported to the us in green bottles. Kind of like Heiniken tasting better out of a can. |
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Silver Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 986 Registered: Jan-05 | Heine does not tase better out of a can......geesh. I do agree(for once)with Eddie..... I like several of he pale ales so long as they arent too pale. My favorite pale ale has more of the color tone of waffle syrup than anything else. BTW.........tonight is beer,pizza and movie night!!!!! and no work till TUESDAY!! Yea baby!! My new movie of the night is "Underworld".....gonna watch some high drama action!! Definitely a movie that will get my behemoth SVS pumpin'!!! HEH I will no doubt have to go outside and rearrange my deck furniture after that movie After that, I'll dig from my archive of 400+movies and wont decide which until the time comes |
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New member Username: HatebreedPost Number: 1 Registered: May-05 | paul, you must be a little kid. Kids are the only ones that are this ignorent. You say that only quality products are made in usa, give me a break. What about B&W, one of the best speakers in the world. Ninety percent of the recievers are made over seas, very few are made in the us. You don't know much about the way things are made these days do you. When you buy something, even when it says made in the us, guess what ninety percent of the parts come from over seas. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1010 Registered: Jan-05 | You obviously cant read. |
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New member Username: HatebreedPost Number: 2 Registered: May-05 | Sony is always discounted because they are cheaper. But I've owned a sony for 5 years & it sounds top notch. Friend of mine has a yamaha and my sony sounds better. I've heard many different recievers on the market, including marantz, denon, pioneer, arcam, sunfire, and yes some of these sound better. But if you go by price and performance, you would be hard pressed to find a better sounding reciever with as many features for the money than sony. Guess the point is don't dissmiss something before you hear it for yourself and compare the features and price before coming to a conclusion. |
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ZiggyZoggyOiOiOi Unregistered guest | Sony sounds just fine, Hatebreed, other than some inflated output numbers (which most of the mass market companies do, anyway). The problem is that, much like a GM car, if you have a 5-year old piece of Sony equipment that still works properly, you are seriously in the minority. Their reliability has got to be the worst in the industry. I've owned several pieces of Sony equipment, and the only thing that hasn't died on me was a portable DAT deck that I bought refurbished at a Sony outlet - meaning it was broken and Sony fixed it before I bought it. The other reason people, myself included, don't like Sony is their failure to support some technologies (see the SACD/DVD-A issue) and they like to create proprietary connectors so that you're forced to overpay for Sony's pieces. The aforementioned DAT deck is a good example - Sony uses a proprietary 7-pin digital output instead of the standard Coax or optical outs, and they charged >$100 for a 7-pin cable (7-pin to 7-pin or 7-pin to coax/optical) when a decent short-run digital coax cable is <$20. Fortunately there are people who have been able to duplicate Sony's interface for much less money. |
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Unregistered guest | I work for Audiophile Systems LTD., the U.S. importer and distributor of Arcam. Arcam sales in the USA are up 45% from last year, a tremendous increase by any measure in a competitive industry. Almost all increase is due to success of the AVR300 receiver (Widescreen Review said it all on that), and DV78 and DV79, the best high performance DVD players on the market. |
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New member Username: Dusty_trailsPlano, IL USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-05 | It would be nice if we could stay on topic, skip the banter, and address the question with factual useful information ... my opinion. As for the question ... I have auditioned both (and I also run a ref audio system, have done so for 20+ years, I compare and shop things for a living, tend to be precise, accurate, and get value ... quality and good price). I purchased the Pioneer Elite VSX 54TX. Having compared I-Link (and Denon Link) with dig coax and analogue, the only benefit I find with I-Link is convenience, not audio quality. The 54 has what I consider all the functional qualites of the 56 for $400 less. The Arcam is a great sounding piece, Arcam makes good stuff. Be prepared to pay full price ... they don't discount (and that means nothing, doesn't make the product better or worse, it's an attitude, attracts some, not others ... but I wouldn't let that influence this decision). For the difference in price I have the option to purchase a new/full warranty NAD Silver 200W 5 Channel amp for under $1200. I don't know that it's needed, but if you want to go the next level, get a unit of your preference with all the pre-pro features that are current and hot, like the Elite 54TX or Denon 3805 (about $800 either way) then go get a big quality seperate power amp). I believe that will provide maximum qualty and result and it will cost less (like in Denon why buy a 5805, the 3805 with the seperate amp is a much better package). Then when you update in three-four years, the amp is still worth more, not dated, and you can once again go for the good value reciever and do it all over again and save even more long term. ONE BIG TIP ... on any of these if you want audio quality ... turn the sub out off (kill the internal crossover) ... run your sub(s) via the pre-out and run your primary speakers Large (if they are large) ... you'll be amazed how much better the audio get's. If you're using the auto set up (the Advanced MCACC is pretty good) turn the subs off while you run it, then adjust them to manually after for optimal result. It's amazing how good some of this gear is for so little money. Compared to high end ref vs mid fi years ago, there's no comparison. You can get some very good gear for very reasonable prices. Also the Advanced MCACC ... for the average user who isn't expert or doesn't want to go to extremes to get the room and set up precise (or who had the wife dictating speaker type/placement) ... it's a great feature (especially compared to spending a couple thousand or more to have your room analized and treated). Enjoy. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1172 Registered: Jan-05 | So what was the question?? HEH |
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russellbesq Unregistered guest | I bought the Arcam AVR-300 and love it. However, I am having one problem: I cannot figure out how to get the second zone to work properly. Right now I have the extra speakers (that should be zone 2) working as the back speakers on zone 1. They also seem to fade in and out a little. Any thoughts about how to set it up properly? Thanks? |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1280 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL... That tomato can is a 7.1 receiver right??? Why on earth would you want to run speakers like that???? sheesh..... At least now, I know what kind of buyer buys those awful receivers. |
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Zorro Unregistered guest | Paul Just phuck off, you have no right to insult people just like that, if anything, you are the most stupid, retarded MOFO on earth, phuck you! My apologies to everyone else.... |
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Silver Member Username: KanoPost Number: 516 Registered: Oct-04 | russellbesq - there isn't a menu function to switch between 2nd zone and 7.1? |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1304 Registered: Jan-05 | Im almost wating for someone to ask how to (instead of running 7.1HT)...... .....run a speaker into 7 different rooms using the same zone1 speakers. |
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Scrunty Unregistered guest | Sorry to bring a modicum of reality to this thread, but Paul does seem intent on over-exaggerating the importance of the US market in this sector. According to the EIAJ (Electronics Industries Association of Japan) statistics for 2004, the US market for separates audio and audio/video electronic components accounted for 2,070,000 units sold (97.6% of 2003's figure) while sales in the EU accounted for 1,788,000 units sold (97.3% of 2003's figure). This makes the US one fifth larger than the next largest market, granted, but not the ultimate market. The ultimate market is the global one, all 5,270,000 units of it. Nor is the US market the most competitive in the world... I'm afraid Japan has the edge on everyone, here. Try brand-spotting in the Akihabara - you will find pretty much everything laid out side by side, $500,000 worth of Krell amplification next to a $20 No-Brand DVD player. There is no single market that defines the industry. You'll find big projector TVs selling in the US and China and practically nowhere else; LCD and Plasma sales are huge in Japan, big in Europe and significantly less everywhere else; systems with built-in DVD players popular in the US and systems without DVD players popular in the EU. There are myriad other differences, based on room sizes, tastes and technology roll-outs across the planet. But Paul is right in at least one aspect; Arcam is a small, specialist British company, and small companies lack the R&D and marketing budget of larger multinationals. Does that make Arcam unable to compete with the likes of Pioneer? Is Harley-Davidson unable to compete with the likes of Honda? Patently, the fact that these smaller companies are still surviving serves to answer this question. Different products appeal to radically different buying criteria. Perhaps Denon and Marantz best sum up these different buying profiles; Denon products are feature-laden, while Marantz products are behind the technology curve, but appeal to a listener who auditions the product instead of buying according to on-paper specs. Curiously enough, both brands are part of the same organization - D&M Holdings. It's tough getting something made in the West these days; most hi-fi (despite where it's claimed to be from) is produced in China, Mexico or Eastern Europe, often with a tiny tweak in the homeland to make it seem British or American or whatever. This has nothing to do with the way Americans or Europeans build things, nor has it anything to do with the politics of the people in charge - it's just that if you can build a product and pay the workforce a bag of rice every six months, why would you build it in a land where you have to pay decent wages? That's why your Mercedes Benz is knocked together in South Africa and your Chevy is proudly made in the good ol' United States of Mexico. |
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New member Username: Jb007The HagueEurope Post Number: 4 Registered: Jun-05 | And I thought I would only get audio knowledge out of this forum ;) Which one of following would you guys suggest to opt for?: NAD T-763 or Yamaha RXV 2500 (mainly for music use, but would like nice cinema sound as well) p.s. NAD is traditionaly a british brand (most sites indicated this during my search ...) thanks in advance for you input on the receivers |
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