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New member Username: YshuawPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-04 | I am building a new HT system (70/30 HT vs music), and getting back into audio after a decade. I am considering the Yamaha V2400, NAD 753 or NAD 763 (the upside to the 763 is 3 component video inputs, and added power). THe Yammy gets poor power reviews on these boards, but the NAD gets hit with noise issues. I haven't finalized my speaker choice yet, considering the Magnepan MMG W and MMG C system with an SVS or Hsu subwoofer. However, I am also looking into a polk setup with RSi4's and FXi30's, and maybe a PSW404 or 505. I know that both receivers say they'll push 4ohm, but from the reviews, the NAD seems more stable. The Yammy does have the nice feature of OSD through component (I understand that if watching Component through the NAD, i won't see the OSD) - important since I have HD Cable (component input for all my connections, basically) Any suggestions, on either the receiver or the speakers? any alternates? As you can see, I am looking for 5.1 - 6.1 for under $2500. Thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 199 Registered: Dec-03 | Joshua, You have obviously done your homework on all of this...and you should be commended for that. Let me start off by telling you that I have an NAD T762 (the previous version of the 763) and absolutely love it. I also must say that I have never been a big fan of Yamaha, at least not lately. The Yamaha receivers of late sounded overly bright and like you mentioned, the power just wasn't there. Many lab tests of various Yamaha receiver models showed that when tested with all channels driven, the power didn't even come close to the published ratings. I also don't like the fact that Yamaha seems to care more about cramming boat loads of useless (at least to me) "simulated sound fields" (like "concert hall" and "jazz club") into their receivers at the expense of power. That being said, I do think that the current 1400 and 2400 models have gotten rid of some of the brightness, but the power issue is largely still around to some extent. So, my recommendation to you would obviously be either of the NAD models you listed. They will provide MUCH more power than the Yamaha...especially when you are talking about 4 ohm speakers. NAD receivers are known to handle 4 ohms very well. The NAD/Magnepan combination is simply amazing from what I have heard. I wouldn't be too concerned with the "noise" issues you mentioned with NAD. I am sure those who have had trouble will disagree, but as I have said many times, these problems are limited to a very small number of NAD receivers. Over the past week or two, the hum or noise issue has kind of dropped off a bit. I am thinking that maybe some of the earlier production runs of the new models may have been more prone to hum or noise, but it seems that those folks on here who have purchased their unit in the last week or two have been reporting that their units are problem free. As for the OSD issue, I definately wouldn't choose a receiver just because you can't get the OSD via component. You can still get OSD with the NAD, you will just have to connect an S-video or composite cable to your TV to do it. I do that now, and I haven't felt shorted or cheated or anything. I think I actually prefer it that way. If you use Component all the time, and have the OSD running through component, it seems like it would be pretty easy to accidentally turn on the OSD in the middle of a movie or TV show. To me, that would get annoying after awhile. I don't know how it is with the Yamaha, but with the NAD, it is pretty easy to accidentally turn on the OSD. You will have so many cables and wires all over the place anyway...one more cheap composite video cable won't make much of a difference. Good luck, and let us know what you decide! |
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vpd Unregistered guest | Ok, so i'm a newbie....but am trying to upgrade my ht system and need a little input. Have recently added the yamaha 1400 as my receiver, which i am happy with, and the axiom 150 center and qs8 surrounds. Am looking to replace my front speakers at this point, which are old Advent Legacy III's which i like but want to upgrade. Was going to go with the axiom 60's, but have read a lot of interesting info about the magnepan mmg's. So, question is can the 1400 handle the 4 ohm load of the magnepans? Or to blend the speakers should i just stay with axiom. Help is appreciated. |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 318 Registered: Dec-03 | The Yamaha/4 ohm question was raised in the letters section of the May issue of Home Theater magazine. The writer has just bought the 2400 and wondered if it could drive the 4 ohm Maggies. The letter was answered by a rep from THX and stated that any THX receiver must meet a 3.2 ohm spec and by implication the answer is yes, any THX receiever can drive a 4 ohm speaker. This is too complex for me to go into here. I'll just say pick up a copy of May's issue and look at the letter section and you'll see for yourself. I am glad to know this as my Elite 45 can drive Dynaudio speakers if I want to go that way. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 455 Registered: Dec-03 | Joshua: A few points: First, forget a Yammie with Magnepan speakers. I have a local dealer that sells Magnepan, Yamaha and NAD and he will not even sell a Yammie with Maggie speakers--he has had too many problems as the gear always comes back. The Yammie does not do 4 ohm loads very well and the sound is not a good match with the brightness of the Yamaha added to the highly detailed sound of the Maggies. Second, you cannot get better sound for the money than Magnepan MMG speakers. Simply the best value in home audio today. Combined with an NAD receiver and you have a killer system for a very reasonable amount of money. I just wish the MMGs fit into my room as I have never heard better speakers for under $1K. However, if you are only looking at the MMG-Ws, I would also suggest you check out the Epos ESL-3s, which are a very good sounding speaker for about the same price as the MMG-Ws ($299/pair). Stereophile raved about them. For a little more money, check into the NHT SB-3s (for mains). They have an MSRP of $600/pair, but you can get them from Kiefs (www.kiefs.com) for $470/pair, and fill out your system with the SB-1s for the rear ($235/pr.) and the SC-1 for your center ($235). Either the Epos or the NHTs are far superior to the Polks, IMO. Third, I replaced my Denon 3803 with the NAD 753 and if anything, my NAD is quieter than the Denon. Yes, I have read all of the posts about noise issues with the NADs, but I have not experienced any problem--my 753 is dead quiet until I put through some program material and then I get only what I want--superb sound. I do suspect that that the big dog, the 773, has a noise issue as it is a new design and it may well need more sheilding between that huge power supply and the signal paths (people fail to appreciate how much bigger that power supply is than what is found in a comparable receiver from another brand--worthy of a high quality separate amp). But I do not believe there is anything inherently wrong with either the 753 or the 763--both of which sound superb. Most problems I have heard about appear to be a noise issue with the electrical utility--a problem easily remedied with a line filter. I simply love the sound of my 753. Good luck. Let us know what you end up doing! |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 324 Registered: Dec-03 | Hawk, I just wanted you to know I was not recommending the Yamaha with Maggies specifically as there are no Maggie dealers anywhere near me so I have not heard them for several years. I was only pointing to the 4 ohm issue which I find very interesting after reading the letter I was talking about. I don't know if you read Home Theater but this is worth checking out and next month's[June] issue will address the whole THX issue. This whole ohm rating issue relates to the FTC regulation and not real world issues and that's the real problem here. Later, my friend. |
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New member Username: Denon_loverPost Number: 4 Registered: Mar-04 | I have Maggies paired with the Yamaha Z9 and it is doing a better job at driving my maggies than my Bryston 8B.Though this is true for previous models. |
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Bronze Member Username: DmeisterPost Number: 88 Registered: Dec-03 | The letter was answered by a rep from THX and stated that any THX receiver must meet a 3.2 ohm spec and by implication the answer is yes, any THX receiever can drive a 4 ohm speaker. That sounds kind of fishy to me, like the guy was avoiding a forthright answer out of political correctness. I suspect that THX's 3.2-ohm spec applies to a speaker of a certain nominal impedance (otherwise, I can't see how the spec would have much meaning). Since many 4-ohm speakers can drop to as low as 2 ohms for lower frequencies, having stability down to 3.2 ohms isn't necessarily saying much. |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 334 Registered: Dec-03 | Darryl, I understand your skepticism and would just say that you should read his whole statement which is too long to repeat here. I am looking forward to next months issue on the whole THX issue and testing etc. The real problem as far as marketing and current ratings is a FTC problem as far as I can tell from this letter and answer. It is hard to read between the lines but please read this in the May HT and let me know what you think. |
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Bronze Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 33 Registered: Dec-03 | I read the letter as well and I think elitefan is very accurately describing what was said. My reading of it is that he was saying that the Yamaha would have no problems with the Magnepans. (I can never bring myself to call these things "Maggies" or "Yammies") |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 472 Registered: Dec-03 | elitefan: I never thought you were recommending Maggies with the Yammie--if I gave you that impression, I was not being clear. I know you well, my friend, and you give sage advice. So, it never crossed my mind. Davin: I have no doubt you are able to use a Yamaha Z9 with Magnepans. When I first went shopping for a receiver to drive my Maggies ( a term of endearment, BTW), my local dealer told me it was either the Yamaha Z1 (this was prior to the appearance of the Z9) or an NAD. His comment was that the Z1 was very capable, but at twice the price of the then highest priced NAD, and loaded with features I would never use, he didn't recommend it. I think he saw my thread-bare clothes and realized I didn't have the means to afford the Yammie in any case. Nevertheless, you do remind me that there is one Yamaha that is very capable of driving low impedence load speakers--I just forget about it since it is so pricey. Congrats on a great receiver. It must be said, however, that Yamaha's flagship is not representative of the rest of the Yamaha line. Darryl: You have an eagle eye there, my friend. Obfuscation is a specialty of the marketing types that populate this business and I believe you have pointed out an inherent inconsistency of the THX certification. I would like to know if an Onkyo THX certified receiver is supposed to be able to drive a 3.2 ohm load, why do they choke on a 4 ohm speaker with a minimum 3.7 ohm such as my Dynaudios? |
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Bronze Member Username: E1kad2Post Number: 33 Registered: Dec-03 | Joshua, pls. read other post to get a full view. Don't be mislead by Hawk and Johnny. They are hands down lovers of NAD. Just a once cent of advice. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 248 Registered: Dec-03 | Ewan, Obviously you disagree with me, which is fine. I welcome and enjoy meaningful debate. But, rather than attack our opinions, why don't you present an alternative opinion of your own. It helps no one when you simply say "they are wrong" and do not give any evidence to support your claims. If our recommendations are so "biased", then maybe you can recommend something different. This childish name bashing helps no one and only weakens the credibility of the forum. |
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Bronze Member Username: BuckeyeshinePost Number: 77 Registered: Feb-04 | Joshua, I can't add much to Hawk and Johhny's comments as I think they are the resident experts here and accordingly I value their opinions highly. I too am a NAD lover but it came only after a side by side comparison between a NAD T763 and Yamaha RX-V2400 in my home. I now own the T773 because of this test drive and have not had any of the humm or other issues some post here. The T763 I tested didn't have any issues either and it was awesome. It truely blew the Yammi away for me and I was a previous Yamaha owner of an RX-V2092 so I was somewhat loyal to the brand. The power difference between the NAD and the 2400 is VERY significant favoring the NAD. The T763 also has a price delta more than the Yamaha so maybe that is a consideration and probably explains at least some of the differences but make no mistake about it...these are 2 very different sounding brands which is to be expected. I think Ewan claims to have an RX-V2400 and was sold by it in comparisons to NAD. This surprises me but I won't go into that. What I will say is test them out YOURSELF side by side and let YOUR ears be the judge. It was night and day for me personally...not even close. Ewan preferred the Yammi so therefore saved some bucks and is content. Ewan also prefers the Yamaha proprietary sound formats which NAD doesn't have. I found no value at all with most of Yamaha's proprietary sounds (including my previous 2092) and think it's more marketing hype than real world value but again, my opinion. Just give me DD or DTS and I'm happy. After my comparison there is no way I would have been satisfied with anything other than the choice I made unless I tested other brands besides the ones I did (which I didn't). As far as OSD for NAD, I have an S-Video connecting my T773 to my TV which is used exclusively for the OSD. Other video signals (DVD & Satt.) are Component Video cables. My 2 cents. Good luck. |
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New member Username: YshuawPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-04 | Thank you all for your input. Reviews and in store tests have led me towards the NAD 762 refurbished (more bang for less buck than the 753) and the Magnepan system, with an SVS Sub. Now I just need my tax refund to arrive! I'll let you know how the setup sounds when I finally get it (I'm guessing 3 weeks or so???) Again, thanks for all of your help! Not to start another possible flame war, but anyone recommend some good interconnects and speaker wire that is a reasonable price? A friend led me to http://signalcable.com/ from audiogon, and his prices look better than the other specialty cables, but still more than a good setup with monster cables...and like I said, I'm getting back into this after YEARS away... Thanks! Joshua |
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New member Username: YshuawPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-04 | JDG: As for the OSD, how often do you have to access it, and does it matter that it is on a dedicated line? Part of the cause for my upcoming purchase was to simplify switching of sources for my lovely bride. Right now we are playing the disconnect/reconnect game every time we change an input source; if she has to go to a different (OSD) screen everytime she wants to change something on the receiver, I may not be able to sell her on it... Thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 529 Registered: Dec-03 | Joshua: For interconnects, check out the house brands at Parts Express (www.partsexpress.com). I have purchased several Dayton Audio cables which are about 25% of the cost of Monster Cable and every bit as good. For the money, the quality is stunning! As for speaker wire, their Sound King brand is very good, and very affordable. |
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Silver Member Username: JohnnyMissouri Post Number: 286 Registered: Dec-03 | Joshua, I think I may be able to help you with your question about the OSD. You really don't have to access the OSD on a regular basis once you get your initial setup out of the way. The OSD is mainly for assigning inputs, setting speaker parameters and so on. So, once you set all of this originally...unless something changes...you really don't have to do anything with the OSD. For the "switching of sources", you simply use the remote and press the button that cooresponds to the "source" you want to use...the OSD is not needed for this. I hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions. |