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Dave83 Unregistered guest | I just found this forum this week, and it's a great resource. I've always had a mini-system but now I want to build my own, but I'm confused about a lot of stuff. I use my sound system almost always for music. One thing I noticed is stereo receivers don't have digital input. Is that just the case with what I've been looking at? Would that lower the sound quality? I hope to have one that takes digital coaxial input. I'm also not sure about the difference between an intergrated amp vs. a receiver. I don't ever listen to the radio. I'm also just a college student living in an apartment, so I want to keep the 2-ch system at $1000 or less. I'm also unsure of how the power ratings should match up. I learned a lot of technical terms but I don't have any experience or knowledge on putting together a 2-speaker system. Thank you so much for any help! |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 327 Registered: May-05 | Dave - An integrated amp is more or less a receiver without a tuner. Dollar for dollar they are generally better made and sound better than receivers, but their may be a few exceptions. Why this is, I don't know. I also haven't come across any stereo receivers or integrateds with digital inputs. This really shouldn't effect sound quality in a bad way; it may actually sound better without the digital input. If the CD player you're buying has a good DAC, then you wouldn't have any use for the digital input. Digital inputs come in handy when the DAC in the receiver is better than the one in the source. You also mentioned power ratings matching up. This shouldn't really be a big concern. The most important thing to match is impedence. Speakers generally range from 8 to 4 ohms. The lower the impedence of the speaker, the harder the amp has to work. Some amps handle 4 ohms without any problems, and some don't. Some inexpensive and well built integrated amplifiers are NAD, Rotel, and Marantz. These generally offer a lot of performance for the dollar. They don't have a lot of bells and whistles like receivers do (sound fields, flashy lights, etc); most of your money goes into the sound and build quality. The CD players from these companies generally follow the same formula. Your best bet is to go and listen to as many combinations as you can. What you really need is dictated by the following - How big is the room (volume wise) Do you hae enough space for different types of speakers - towers, bookshelves, subwoofer How loud do you like to listen How detailed do you like your music Do you prefer heavy bass, mid range, highs, or well balanced What type of music do you listen to A $1000 budget is a very good one. You could get some very good stuff for that price. Your best bet is to go to a few local stereo shops and see what they have. Don't buy something because what you've heard about it. Let your own ears be the judge. If you come across something on the internet, check the manufacturer's site to find a local dealer. Stay away from chain stores like best buy, curcuit city, etc. They generally have inferior products at inflated prices (their are a few exceptions). Buying from a local stereo store may be a few dollars more, but the quality for your dollar ratio is so much better. I know this is a lot to take in, but let us know if you need any other help. |
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Dave83 Unregistered guest | Thanks Stu. Most of the time I listen to mp3s from my computer. But most of them have bitrate 192kbit or higher, and my 6-channel computer sound card has the usual headphone jack and a SPDIF coaxial output. I have room for towers and my music is usually loud. I listen to mostly alternative rock but sometimes electronica with lots of bass. I didn't mean that I get $1000 for the receiver. That's my budget for the entire system =( Someone told me Yamaha makes good receivers. Earlier I was looking at their stereo receiver RX-777 ($400), which has 0.019% THD, and their NS-777 speakers ($600 for a pair) with two 8" woofers per speaker. NAD's C372 looks superior to Yamaha but it was $900 (The C352 had 85W/ch but I hoping about 100W/ch). But I'll go to local shops and test them out like you said. Could you recommend any other brands or models for amps/receiver and speakers if I try to keep the total under 1000? Do you think something like a 0.02% difference on THD would make a difference with mp3s at bitrate 192kbit? |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 336 Registered: May-05 | Dave - I personally don't care much for Yamaha's 2 channel stuff. It's well made, but it doesn't do it for me. Key words being for me. I knew you meant $1000 for the entire system... The NAD amp I was referring to was the C320BEE. I own the amp, and a little biased towards it. Take that as what you will. Personally I was thinking the NAD C320BEE ($399) and NAD C521BEE ($299) for the amp/cd player. I also don't care much for Yamaha's speakers. I would look for a speaker that is made by a company that only makes speakers. There are a lot of internet direct companies that make good speakers for very cheap (relatively). The ones off the top of my head are Axiom, Ascend, and Fluance. I haven't heard any of them, but there are people here who highly recommend the Ascends. I've seen some mixed reveiws on the other two. They all have a 30 day or more return policy if you don't like them, which is a plus. Other good speakers for a good price are Athena, Wharfedale, Paradigm, & PSB. Boston Acoustics and Polks can be good, but they are somewhat hit or miss. If you find a few that you're interested in, try posting in the speaker section; chances are someone there has heard what you're looking at. As far as mp3's... They aren't going to sound great no matter what bit rate you use. They are compressed, meaning that some of the information has been cut out of them. As insignificant as they mp3 system designers may tell you that this information is, they are full of crap. To prove this, bring an mp3 cd and a standard cd (of the same music preferrably) and listen to them side by side on the same system. Their will be a night and day difference. As far as specs for receivers... they are realtively meaningless. There is no standard that they all need to follow when measuring them. I'll take 50 NAD watts with .003% THD over 100 Yamaha watts with .0019 % THD any day of the week. NAD rates their stuff with all channels drive simultaneously at rated distortion and worse case conditions. The Yamaha is best case scenario, and independant reviewers have found their numbers to be way off. For $400, the NAD will run circles around the Yamaha. Marantz has a stereo receiver for $400 as well. This will run circles around the Yamaha too. Another good company that I forgot to mention is Harmon/Kardon. They have 2 channel receivers and CD players for even less money than the NAD stuff. Their stuff is very good too. Not quite the quality of the NAD, Rotel, etc, but very good. You can find factory refurbished stuff from them here - http://www.harmanaudiooutlet.com/search_browse/default.asp?sp=S&brand=HK Now that I think about it, this is probably the way to go. They have a 85x2 watt receiver for $177. Check e-bay first, because they auction them there (Harman itself, not someone else). They are fully waranteed from the manufacturer as if they were new. Their cd players are very good too. This leaves you with more money to play with for speakers, or keep for a few beers. You can probably hear these in Circuit City, and the Athena's in Best Buy (Like I said eariler, there's an exception to every rule). Also, bigger woofers may put out more bass than smaller ones, but the quality may not be as good. My towers with 6.5's have deep and tight bass. They sound better than a lot of towers I've heard with 8"-12" woofers. The larger woofers have more of a rumble like sound, whereas the samller ones have a more punch sound. There are exceptions too though. Another good thing to look for is discontinued, last ones, or even factory belmished stuff. They can save you a lot of money. A lot of local stores have a bargain basement area, or something similar. I'd personally stay away from the used or floor model stuff. No particular reason, just my gut feeling when I come across them. I got my PSB Image T55's like this. The store that sold them dropped the line. They retail for $899, I got them for $550. Here's a good site for cheap PSB's - https://dmc-electronics.com/Default.htm I can't recommend PSB's highly enough, but make sure you hear them before buying them. The Txx's are the new ones, and the xT's are the older ones. They sound similar, but the new ones are a little better all around. Hope all of this helps!!! Let me know how it goes. |
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Dave83 Unregistered guest | Stu - Thanks for all the advice. I'll have to go to a local store and test out all the different speakers. But I'll have to wait about a month since I'm away from home on a summer job. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 345 Registered: May-05 | Good luck |
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New member Username: CoiweConcepcion, Bio Bio Chile Post Number: 2 Registered: Jul-05 | Dave: "Better late than never", as we say in Chile . I have found an interesting link as follow: http://www.ultimateavmag.com/howto/405shopping/ It is interesting to understand your former question about the difference between an integrated amp and a received. Hope this help you as it helps me. Regards Jaime |
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New member Username: StevizardIndianapolis, Indiana USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Aug-05 | Dave83, I've been into high fidelity for a LONG time. You say your budget is $1000.00. Well, just one of my RBH Sound T-1 speakers (I have 3 - LF, RF, Center channel) retails for $6,500.00 each. No, I'm not bragging. I'm also not a college student. I've been working for more years than I care to admit, and I've upgraded over the years. You've received some good advice from others on this forum but nobody asked if you were making a one time purchase with no intention of ever upgrading or doing anything else with your new system (whatever it is you decide upon). I believe that the MOST important question is this: Do you just want to play CDs or would you ever want your receiver to double as a home theater receiver (you know, hook it up to your DVD player or cable box)? If you'd like to get more use out of your stereo system, then consider an AVR (Audio/Video Receiver). You can hook your cable box and DVD player up to it and use it as your video switching hub (That is, you push a button on your remote and it sends either your DVD video or your cable box video to your TV and plays the right audio in 5.1 surround sound (or better). You can accomplish both by simply choosing the right AVR. Well, maybe I'm really off base here. I don't know you and I'm new to this forum too. However, a good DVD player can easily double as a CD player and play MP3s too. Maybe this sounds a little confusing to you but out of confusion comes decision, and out of decision comes clarity. Best regards, Steve PS. There are some good AVRs out there that would fit your price range and perform beautifully. |
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Dave83 Unregistered guest | Thanks for the link Jaime. Steve- I just finished my first year in college, so I won't be expanding my system for at least another 3 years. And I'm guessing the first few years (maybe 3) that I get out of college, I'd be really busy with work and might not have time to enjoy a HT system. It seems like I'll be listening to just music for the next 6 years or so (haha. although it's too far into the future and I don't know what I'll end up doing). But thank you for reminding me that my options will be limited with just a 2-channel if I need to hook up more stuff later. I'll definitely look around and see if I can find a good AVR. From what Stu and others have said, an integrated amp performs better than an AVR in terms of music quality. And since my budget is pretty limited, I might not get an AVR for now. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 368 Registered: May-05 | Another thing to consider is that most integrateds allow you to seperate the pre-amp from the power amp. The NAD 320BEE in particular has a very good pre-amp section - 95% as good as their dedicated pre-amp, which isn't too shabby either. You could use the 320BEE or any other integrated listed above as a pre-amp and upgrade the power amp down the road. You can also use the integrated as a power amp for the front channels of an AVR. The H/K reveiver also has a pre-out/main-in loop. I was thinking these things when I suggested, but didn't want to post a whole book. |
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New member Username: StevizardIndianapolis, Indiana USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Aug-05 | Dave83, As I understand it, your $1000 must cover your entire system . . . right? Well, perhaps you should consider a mid-range AVR. Sherwood has been around since the early days of audio. At one time, the were one of the top players. During the 70s and 80s, they fell behind the pack (as did most U.S. manufacturers). However, they're trying to get back into a top position by introducing their Sherwood Newcastle line, which is getting favorable reviews across the board. Sherwood Newcastle makes a very nice line of mid-range AVRs at very reasonable prices. Two AVRs you might consider: 1) Sherwood Newcastle R-765 (5.1 surround sys) 2) Sherwood Newcastle R-863T (7.1 surround sys) I've personally seen and listened to both. The build quality is top-notch and when matched with decent speakers they perform MUCH better than their price would indicate. In other words, you get a lot for the money you spend. Take a look at http://www.sherwoodusa.com/nc_cat_av.html Speakers? Hope you have some but if not Infinity makes some decent low-cost speakers and so does DCM. In fact, DCM's Cinema2 has 4 satellites, 1 center channel, and a powered subwoofer. The whole set costs only $399.00. Again, I've heard them and was surprised at the sound for the buck. Well, just thought I'd give you some options. Best regards, Steve |
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dave83 Unregistered guest | I might just spend more on the system and get the C372 for the integrated amp. It's "2 x 150W Minimum Continuous Power into 4/8 ohms". If 150W is the minumum, does that mean I cannot hook up 100W peak power 6ohms speakers to it? Does the minimum mean it can't go below 150W to accomodate the 100W peak? |
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Silver Member Username: CheapskatePost Number: 214 Registered: Mar-04 | NAD uses the same exact preamp circuits in all of their gear. an nad reciever (which features pre in/outs too) is really just a tuner, preamp and amplifier in one package. that you'd pay the exact same price for the very same preamp as an integrated amp always amazed me. with NAD, the more seperate "components" (read reciever) the better the value you get. NAD used to brag how they used the same grade preamps in all of their gear, unless they've changed their policies. |