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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 14 Registered: Dec-03 | Just curious as to what your preferences are and why. I'm not looking for "dream" systems. I would like to know what your requirements are other than price. What are you looking for? Sound, looks, size, musicality, home theater? For a large speaker I like the Gilmore Model 2, for a small speaker I like the U-vola. The Gilmore is the best I've heard regardless of what you're playing and it doesn't matter what size room it's in. Well constructed and technically sound and for all it's merits I'm willing to forget it's huge and looks like a countertop. The U-vola is unobtrusive, modern looking and very spacial sounding for a small enclosure with surprising low end response. How about you? |
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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 17 Registered: Dec-03 | Maybe that's too vague. If you wanted someone to make a speaker for you what would you tell them you want? |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 49 Registered: Dec-03 | Magnepan speakers are the finest, I have ever heard or owned. Just my humble opinion. |
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New member Username: Jim85irocStamford, VT USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-04 | I'm most impressed with a pair of speakers built by a very small company in CT. The particular pair I listened to used a Scan speak 2905-series tweeter and a pair of 4535 woofers in a 2.5-way configuration. They sounded outstanding, and at $3500, cost far less than most speakers using those drivers. Compared to the Martin Logans and the Sonus Faber Concerto speakers I heard that day, they were simply outstanding. |
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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 24 Registered: Dec-03 | Do you remember the name of the company or do they have a website? (you still going to buy that HK receiver?) |
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New member Username: OttawaianOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-04 | I have a pair of Koss 1020s from 27 years ago. Three-way speakers, with 10" woofers, soft-dome tweaters in beautiful solid pecan boxes. I still love them. When I bought them, I A - B'd them in my home with a pair of similarly priced ($850 that long ago) B&W and found the Koss to be much better. Unfortunately, Koss has gone back to just making headphones, so I can't get any more of them for a surround system. I'm planning on using Mission for the surrounds. |
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Bronze Member Username: OkiecaverOklahoma City, Oklahoma USA Post Number: 29 Registered: Feb-04 | Still in love with my Early 80's Pioneers. Big muthas, fully shielded, 12 in woofers with Aluminum brackets. Slap the sides and it's like slapping a rock- zero resonance. Put them on time align stands and cones and they came ALIVE. They have survived many a drunken after hours party with nary a squawk, but make my music sweet and fatigue proof! Now they are finally in a house that does them justice. Perfect size and shape room, wood pier and beam floors with a bit of give but no bounce. I played some of my old Petshop Boys cds last night while doing Disco Housework and heard entire choruses I'd never heard before! Dont'cha just love falling for your old tried but true gear all over again? Happy listening Brock |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 50 Registered: Dec-03 | Brock, It sounds like you were paying attention to my tweaks. Time align stands and brass cones, I'm impressed. How do you like them? Big difference ? Enjoy. |
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Bronze Member Username: JordieHuntington beach, California Usa Post Number: 40 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick, what sub(s) are you using with your Maggies? |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 51 Registered: Dec-03 | Adrian, I'm using a Velodyne F-1500 servo with a pair of 1.6s |
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Bronze Member Username: JordieHuntington beach, California Usa Post Number: 41 Registered: Dec-03 | Do you have any experience with the Rel(Strata)/Magnepan combo? thanks! |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 52 Registered: Dec-03 | Adrian, The Magnepan/Rel combo would be my first choice for a music only system. The Rel is very fast and accurate, however my system doubles for HT, and nothing is as low, loud, and rude as a big servo Velodyne. I find it a good choice for both. |
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Bronze Member Username: OkiecaverOklahoma City, Oklahoma USA Post Number: 30 Registered: Feb-04 | Hey Rick I already had the time aligns, but coupling them to the speaker with blue -tac and then putting cones on the stands worked wonders. Everything smoothed out, along with pulling them out to line up with TV screen and away from the wall and getting 9 gauge cables I'm buying a used Shure HTS surround processor. I'll put a VMPS powered sub for LFE and roll it off at 80 hertz to let the Pioneers chill. Oh, and I liked Mapleshades selection of music too. Thanks! |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 342 Registered: Dec-03 | The best fullrange speaker I ever heard was the Waveform Mach 17. Sadly, their production ceased a few years ago. I guess John Otvos wanted to enjoy life in another realm--sad for the rest of us that couldn't afford these $7,000 speakers at the time. It was an amazing design and incredible build quality. The tweeter was housed in an egg-shape on top and each speaker required 3-channel amplification, which Waveform would supply from Bryston at a discount---or you could use any other 3-channel or 6-channel amp. From 20 Hz to 20KHz I have never heard a more seemless presentation and a more uncolored sound. The better the source material, the better it sounded. I am still trying to convince my friend that owns them in NY to sell them to me if he ever gets rid of them. The request has fallen on deaf ears (pun intended). I will have to settle for buying a used one, but they rarely are available. It seems there aren't many that own them that want to part with them. So I have my money put away for them when I see them available. If I ever get a pair I might never leave my house again:-) It is worth a google search just to look at them and read about them. |
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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 25 Registered: Dec-03 | It's widely accepted that separate amplication and active crossovers on each driver will yield superior results. If you use high quality drivers and can "overcome the box" along with that you will have the best there is. There are, however, very few examples of this in mainstream audio as most consumers are not willing to pay the price or go through the setup hassle. The Linkwitz Orion is another such system. http://www.linkwitzlab.com |
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Bronze Member Username: StonePost Number: 11 Registered: Dec-03 | You may not be asking for dream systems but I can only answer it one way. The best speakers I have heard to date were the Focal JMlab Grande Utopia Be. Obnoxiously large. The stereo store had a room dedicated to them with nothing but one large lounge chair. I spent about 45 minutes alone in there one day. Unbelievable. On a more realistic level, I would give the Dali Royal Tower the best sounding small floorstanders I have heard. At 1200.00 a pair, a complete steel. |
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New member Username: Jim85irocStamford, VT USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Mar-04 | "Do you remember the name of the company or do they have a website? (you still going to buy that HK receiver?)" The company is called Source Technologies. The website isn't very up to date, but this is it: http://www.sourcetechspeakers.com/ None of the speakers I listened to are listed on the website, although the matching center channel is pictured in the upper left-hand corner of the index page. I decided to keep the NAD instead of buy the HK. I ordered a new amp for my subwoofer so that I can better integrate it with the full-range mains. I'd rather have much better bass management from my receiver, but the NAD sounds too good for me to return it. |
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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 30 Registered: Dec-03 | Source Technologies has a wide variety of designs. They appear to use quality drivers in a number of applications including some built-in subs and T-line cabs. Reasonable prices too. Good stuff! I think your decision on the amp is the right one. |
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Bronze Member Username: IamcanadianPost Number: 14 Registered: Mar-04 | Anyone ever heard these? Wilson Audio WAMM. Wilson Audio X-1/Grand SLAMM. http://www.wilsonaudio.com http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/909 They have a sub that weights over 700 pounds. The above mentioned speakers weight over 1100 pounds. Their most expensive speaker sells for just under 250grand usd. Call me if you ever buy one, I will come visit. |
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Bronze Member Username: StonePost Number: 12 Registered: Dec-03 | Never listened to the Wilson's. Closest dealer is about hour 1/2 half away. |
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Unregistered guest | Green Mountain Audio speakers are thought by many audiophiles to be the best in the world. I agree. For under $900.00/pair, the companies "Europa" model has outperformed everything I have put next to it up to $6K. Amazing speakers. Follow the link |
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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 31 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks for the Green Mountain reference. That's exactly the type of info I was looking for. I've never seen a manufacturer use 1st order XOs in a three-way design. That's take some serious effort to pull off. |
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Unregistered guest | Your welcome. And your comment is right on. |
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Bronze Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 47 Registered: Feb-04 | Just to add my two pennies: In a perfect world my HT/listening room would be full of Martin Logans and a rack full of appropriate power to drive them. I've not had a lot of experience with Magnepan, but a friend still owns a set of 3-panel Magneplanars. Still first-rate, given enough power to drive them. But I still love electrostats, so much so that I'd be more than willing to live with their considerable drawbacks. I've been fortunate over the years to know some well-heeled audiophiles, and have heard a lot of good stuff. Without a doubt the strangest audio experience I've ever had was when a friend owned a pair of Plasmatronics. Dr. Hill (ex of Alamos Lab, and I think NASA) is credited with developing these speakers. Basically, the Plasmatronics produced everything above 700Hz with a plasma field, approximately 3" across. The mind still boggles. Here was a blue-green/purple "flame" that produced great sound, and loud sound. We would listen for several minutes at very high levels with absolutely no fatigue. The plasma was driven by a 400 watt mono tube amp with a transformer the size of a volleyball. Each speaker also needed a full-size helium tank as "fuel" for the plasma. You had to supply power for the built-in woofers. It was all so appealing because here was a 360° radiator (almost) that was without mass. Not that the entire speaker was massless--it was the clunkiest thing! (Only a handful of these speakers were ever made.) If you're interested, go to: http://www.plasmatweeter.de/plasmatronic.htm |
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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 34 Registered: Dec-03 | Any concerns about ozone? |
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Bronze Member Username: StonePost Number: 16 Registered: Dec-03 | I Would love to hear the GMA Europa's some day as well. Waiting for someone to carry them in the Seattle area. They seem to have a cult like following amoung their owners on the internet. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 373 Registered: Dec-03 | If anyone knows a person that wants to sell a Waveform Mach 17 or Waveform Solo pair of speakers (in good condition) I would be a most happy man. The Mach 17 was by a large margin my fave speaker I ever heard. And the Solo might be my second favorite. Sadly, John Otvos in Canada doesn't make them anymore. Now that I can afford them I cannot get them. They aren't even available at audiogon.com I guess those that have them aren't motivated to sell them---arghh! To me, when properly balanced and dialed in, they represent what sounds like the best a planar/electrostatic/ and direct source speaker has currently been able to reproduce. Even off-axis and wandering around a large room they sound like you are in a sweet spot. Obviously I prefer the Mach 17's, but the Solo's are still a wonderful speaker. Maybe there exists comparable speakers under $10,000---but I haven't heard them. Heck, I haven't heard them over $10,000. |
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Bronze Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 48 Registered: Feb-04 | Timin8ter: Good call there--ozone was the byproduct of the plasma. We used to joke about the room "atmosphere" adding to the aural excitement. Gregory: I've been out of the loop for a while. Would you be kind enough to describe the Mach 17's elements and physical size, etc. I've never heard of them. Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 30 Registered: Dec-03 | The P.A. speakers used by the Grateful Dead are by far the best I have ever heard. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 475 Registered: Dec-03 | I once visited a dealer caller Hornes in Summertown, Oxford, UK, to buy some sort of LP record cleaner. The sales guy wanted any excuse, I think he had just set it up. So to demonstrate "the improved sound with no static" (feeble pretence) he marched me up to the demo room and put on a solo piano recital, played on a Linn Sondek LP12, with the latest Quad pre- and power-amp (I forget which) and a pair of Quad ESL 63 speakers. They were a long way down the room. It sounded exactly like there was an invisible pianist there, playing an invisible Steinway concert grand. It was so vivid I shall never forget it. I bought an anti-static spray. Waste of money. About a year later, I bought the speakers they sold and which I could actually afford. KEF Corellis. They are still brilliant, and in daily use, 24 years later. I've stuck with KEF all the way through to my recent center speaker for HT, and they continue to deliver the goods. |
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Bronze Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 49 Registered: Feb-04 | John A.: Sometime around the mid-70's my introduction to electrostatic speakers was a pair of Quads, powered by Quad electronics. I don't remember the model numbers, but I will never forget the sound. There was a presence unduplicated by any other speaker type in my experience. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 500 Registered: Dec-03 | John, Thanks. For me, owning a Quad system was a dream that never came true. Never mind. There are other things! There is a book now about Quad. It was reviewed in HiFi News a few months ago. Exactly where Quad stands today I don't know. I see they now make orthodox electromagnetic speakers, too. I've read Hawk opine that Magnepan give better sound than Quad electrostatic speakers. He knows his stuff. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 69 Registered: Dec-03 | JohnA., It took me 34 years to start thinking "outside the box". I purchased a pair of Maggies (1.6's) a couple of months ago. Still have not heard anything better, and have heard most. Just my humble opinion. Actually it was Hawk that got me thinking about Magnepan after all these years. So if you loved Quad, give Maggies a listen, I think you will be pleased. Cheers. |
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New member Username: Jim85irocStamford, VT USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Mar-04 | "I've never seen a manufacturer use 1st order XOs in a three-way design. That's take some serious effort to pull off." Tim, Most Sonus speakers use a first-order crossover, or so they say. Considering how hard it is to tame the breakup on some of the scan speak woofers, I find their claim somewhat questionable. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 505 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick, Now that is a recommendation! If you've got five minutes to spare, come and help avoid combustion on CD/DVD-V/DVD-A/SACD player???. Thanks for your comments! |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 506 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick, The penny only just dropped! That's like saying the record turntable was a revolution... |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 71 Registered: Dec-03 | JohnA., OK-where's the fire? |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 507 Registered: Dec-03 | Rick, False alarm, Sorry. So far. This topic became heated late last year, on the thread I linked there earlier today, "...which way will the industry go?" |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 529 Registered: Dec-03 | It's now warming up, Rick... |
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Bronze Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 42 Registered: Dec-03 | John A. Are you trying to stir a pot? |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 78 Registered: Dec-03 | JohnA., I'll watch it simmer. Ben, Differing views, and heated debate are what makes this stuff fun sometimes. Just as long as it never becomes personal. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 532 Registered: Dec-03 | Ben, No, not at all. But you and I got quite warmed up last year on SACD or DVD-A - which way will the industry go. I've been reading Rick's posts and thought he would be interested in us going round in circles. Also maybe could lower the temperature, if necessary. But we're doing fine this time round. I've just put a longish post there to follow yours. Though we still disagree, I really appreciate reading your views. Rick, You've got it. I agree. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rick_bNew york Usa Post Number: 86 Registered: Dec-03 | JohnA., I love it when we all play well together. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 545 Registered: Dec-03 | Cheers! And to Ben! |
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New member Username: OttawaianPost Number: 4 Registered: Mar-04 | Seems like we've lost the purpose of this "discussion group" here during the last few posts. I vaguely remember that folks were discussing speakers. Greg Stern referred to John Otvos, who happens to still live and work in the Ottawa Valley. Apparently, he is concentrating on building homes, using exotic wood detailing. No speakers lately. |
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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 45 Registered: Dec-03 | Yeah, back on topic. So far we've had opinions on multi-way systems and electrostat/planer systems. What about single-driver systems? I've heard a few Fostex based systems that are very good. Good examples are the systems from Cain & Cain. A single driver rear-loaded horn that's done properly is a joy to listen to. http://www.cain-cain.com/audio/studiocain/ |
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Unregistered guest | The best speaker I have ever heard is the DYNAUDIO BM6A, I have a pair at home and they are really great. Rememeber that being spectacular is easy, the difficult thing is FIDELITY. |
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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 48 Registered: Dec-03 | Nice! The BM6A is a near-field monitor. How do you have them set up? How far away is the listening position? |
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Bronze Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 64 Registered: Feb-04 | Timn8ter: I've read a lot on this board about Dynaudio, so I checked their site. Will you please define "active near field monitor" and "passive near field monitor." Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 49 Registered: Dec-03 | "Active" systems are typically those that have their own amplification and active crossover. This is the case with powered subwoofers, an example of an active system. |
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Bronze Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 65 Registered: Feb-04 | Tinn8ter: So what about the 'near field' part? I used to own a pair of tri-amped Brauns. In addition to the 12" woofer, 1.25" dome tweeter, and the world's largest dome mid--2.5 inches. 55 watts woofer, 35 watts mid, and 15 watts tweeter. Drove them with an SAE preamp. Loved that system! |
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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 50 Registered: Dec-03 | Near-field monitors are intended to be used in recording studios to allow the engineer to hear his mix as it would sound on most audio equipment. In fact, a good monitor would allow him to hear things most people will never hear. For this reason, they need to sound good and not contribute to the mix in any manner. This is why they shouldn't sound too good either, although many new near-field monitors sound quite good. They are ususally two-way speakers with a narrow "sweet spot" and intended to be listened to at a short distance. At one time a dreadful speaker, the Yamaha NX10 made it's way into the studio. It wasn't a good speaker but somehow it allowed the engineers to hear their mixes quite well. I don't understand it myself but they became the most ubiquitous near-field monitor made. |
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Bronze Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 67 Registered: Feb-04 | Gotcha, thanks. |
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hi Unregistered guest | the best speakers i have ever hear... pro audio home speakers with dual 15'' woofer in each speaker box 5.ft tall with a 5'' x 10'' horn tweteer and 8'' midranges carpeted speaker boxes wih dual heavy dutty metal carring handles they are 8-ohms thet have more bass than 2 15'' powered subwoofers 56'' big screen t.v. direct t.v. they are 1500 rms each they are going to a 4-channel digital stero amplifier with built in am/fm tuner bass/treable positive and negative and it alsol is going to a 5 didsc cd-changer and alsol going to an electronic eq they are so lound in a 50.ft living and duing room thay you can bearly yeal over them and they vibrate stuff off the walls $1000.00 dollars for theis system brand new! |
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Bronze Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 56 Registered: Dec-03 | Loud = good? |
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Unregistered guest | Jim, your correct in questioning the 1st order 3 way designs. Very difficult to implement. Time domain math is the most difficult in all of physics. I think thats the reason you see only a handfull of designers world wide doing true 1st order designs. Many who claim time/phase alignment never achieve it. Once you've heard a real time/phase aligned speaker, you will hear the crossover in speakers that are not time/phase aligned easily. Just my .02. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 753 Registered: Dec-03 | Just to link, here, Rick's fine Audiophile Speaker Epiphany. |