DVD-A. Cambridge Audio azur 540D, NAD T533...?
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 393 Registered: Dec-03 | This not, strictly, receivers. But it is related, and I especially value opinions here. Also, a week has gone by without a reply on "Video/DVD players", and Two Cents replies under "Audio/CD players" to say he is interested, too. Any views or experiences concerning DVD-A players? I am thinking of the Cambridge Audio azur 540D and the NAD T533. From the specifications, the Cambridge Audio has six 12-bit/54MHz video DACs, while the NAD has one 4 x 10 bit Video DAC running at 54MHz. Does this matter? I know little about video. For audio, the Cambridge Audio has a Crystal CS4360 24-bit/192kHz six channel DAC, while the NAD has "Audiophile Quality 24 bit/192kHz DACs". NAD used to specify Crystal DACs, but not here. Does this matter? My current NAD T532 DVD-V-CD player has "Audiophile quality 96kHz/24 bit Crystal DAC and Burr-Brown Op-amps". It is just great, both for audio and video. I shall be sorry to see it go. But I do want DVD-A. Does anyone have anything on these two players? Is there anything else as good as these for audio, in a similar price range? |
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Bronze Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 41 Registered: Feb-04 | John A, A recent issue of What Hi-Fi gave a glowing review of the CA 540D, but rated it only 4 of 5 stars. It's not clear from the review where the player falls short of that fifth star. (I've found these mags aren't always the most objective source of info though.) Everything else being equal, the extra 2 bits in the CA video DAC should give it an advantage in video performance over the NAD. However, the main thing that excites me about the CA is the potential for a relatively inexpensive DVD player to provide good audio performance on top of great video. There aren't any DVD players in its price range that does well with CDs and DVD-A's. The Pioneer 563/565 comes close, but falls short IMHO. Currently I use a cheap Toshiba progressive scan DVD player that also plays DVD-A's. I recently began listening to DVD-A discs on this player and I'm beginning to understand the hype about the new format. The sound is more detailed and less congested and the tone seems warmer, less hard-edged than CDs. In other words, DVD-A's seem to mitigate many of the drawbacks of CD sound. I had been skeptical about DVD-A and SACD as another way for music companies to get into our wallets, but now I'm intrigued enough to get a good player (without dropping a bucket of cash) to really explore that DVD-A sound. Are there others out there who care to share their experience with the CA, NAD or other DVD-A players? |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 400 Registered: Dec-03 | Two Cents, Thanks again. I feel more at home in "receivers"! "What Hifi" is good: "Hifi News" gets a bit more technical, and I enjoy it more. It been around for years. I don't buy every issue, though. I like the look if the CA. I note it says "acoustically damped chassis" and is 50% heavier, at 4.6 kg/10.1 lbs, than the NAD (3 kg/6.6 lbs). What may swing it for us is that my wife loves the T532 and wants to stick with the brand (I can understand), also the first grey T533 is coming into town the end of this week. Whereas the dealer (same one) says that the CA is advertised, but we'll have to wait months. The NAD is also a fraction cheaper. If there is a clear difference in sound, though, I'd be happy to wait. I too am excited by DVD-A. I spent (wasted?) a lot of time asking dumb DVD-A newbie questions on a thread What does"DVD-audio" mean here?, but got some fantastic advice (and flames). I have had some more recent (and informed) discussions on SACD or DVD-A - which way will the industry go - I think we may have exchanged views there already. Being into classical (mostly) I find the Naxos DVD-As (A) cheap - less than a full-price CD - and (B) a complete knock-out for sound, even in "just" DTS. Whether true DVD-A really improves on that, I hope to find out soon. DTS is clearly superior to CD. How does DTS compare with DVD-A 5.1 on your Toshiba? Our largest local record store will order DVD-As, but says there is no demand, because no-one has players. Yet it has shelves full of music DVD-Vs! They must be mixing it up with SACD. The terminology has confused the heck out of lot of people, I think. Anyway, I'll let you know what we decide, and what I find. Please do the same! I note there is still no specific DVD-A forum here, perhaps they don't know where to file it... Anyone else? Two guys here ready to "pull the trigger"... |
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Bronze Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 57 Registered: Feb-04 | John A Another one to look at that gets a pretty good review: Marantz DV-6400 http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=575&page_nu mber=1 Also Denon DVD2200 may be worthy of a look |
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Bronze Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 44 Registered: Feb-04 | My Rantz Thanks for the suggestions. I'm actually leaning toward the Denon 2200 right now, but it's about $200 more than the CA 540D. If the CA unit is comparable in video and audio quality than I'll probably go with it. John A, I'll keep you and others on this board updated on the search for a good, affordable DVD-A player. To answer your question, DVD-A 5.1 sounds significantly better than DTS on my Toshiba player. The music is more detailed, less congested. I tried playing a DVD-A disc using a digital coaxial cable to the receiver and letting my receiver do the D-A conversion and it sounded about the same as DTS. Then I hooked up 6 analog audio cables between the player and the receiver. The analog connection makes a world of difference even with my cheap DVD player; the sound is that much richer. I'm still getting used to listening to music in surround sound. I find the enveloping sound field unnatural, but kind of intoxicating. I haven't heard any Naxos DVD-As, but I have read that they are well produced as are AIX discs. I've listened to one DVD-A that sounded worse than a redbook CD, so the recording and production of the disc still makes a huge difference. The DVD-A acronym is no guarantee of quality sound. As I noted on a previous post, I'm leaning toward a universal player even though I believe that DVD-A will outlast SACD. However, I recently visited a Best Buy (a mass-market electronics store in the US) and found they stocked twice as many SACD discs as DVD-As. So it might be better to keep both options open. |
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Bronze Member Username: InviernoPost Number: 21 Registered: Feb-04 | I've got a T533 that should show up tomorrow (a week late). I'll let you know if I have strong opinions on it once I listen a bit, though my opinion will be skewed by the fact that both the receiver and speakers hooked up to it will also be new... Of course, this thread is making me wonder if I should have ordered something else. Sigh. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 404 Registered: Dec-03 | My Rantz, Thanks. I have had long and good service from a Marantz CD player, though there was an in-built design problem with the drive, which I eventually had to fix. It is some years ago and probably not relevant. The DV-6400 looks really good. It significantly more expensive than the CA and NAD; the Denon DVD 2200 even more so (more than twice the price). But these are good recommendations, thanks. Also "universal" players, I note. I'll have to think about this. You are right that there seem to be more SACD titles at present. I have a feeling most people simply don't know their DVD players will already play DVD-A discs, and this could be helping SACD get going. Two Cents, Thanks. I am even more looking forward to real DVD-A! By the way, when you connect the player to the receiver digitally, you are not getting DVD-A format sound. It may sound like DTS because it is DTS. There are "rights agreements" over the DVD-A format which means the processing can only be in the player, and the signal out has to be analogue. One view is, it is to prevent copying, and I think this is correct. I also wonder whether it helps to encourage us to buy new players: DVD-A in the receiver would mean any current DVD player would work, though not necessarily at the highest resolution. There is a view that a digital connection cannot have the bandwidth required for DVD-A. I think think this is untrue, but anyone experiencing better sound using the analogue connections could be easily reach that conclusion. By the way, can you give me a lead on AIX discs, and the comparison with Naxos? Sounds interesting. I know some exotic recording labels, but I have never heard of AIX! Invierno, I think you made a really good decision. My T532 is excellent and the T533 can only be better. Yes, please post back. If you have new receiver and speakers, too, you are in for a wonderful experience! ____ From what I read, my vote is for DVD-A, not SACD. But, with all the debate, unnecessary "rights agreements", confusion over teminology, and misconceptions (e.g. my record dealer), I wonder if the whole market is not being manipulated by the industry, or some of its main players. Most pundits agree that Sony had a better format for VCR with Betamax, but Betamax lost out to VHS. As I understand, the victory was secured from skilled marketing agreements and concerted action from Sony's main rivals. In the case of DVD-A/SACD, I suppose they can co-exist indefinitely, but one will maybe give more choice and therefore value if its market share is much larger than that of the other. I suppose it would be nice and "just" if Sony won, this time, with the better format, but I think SACD is mostly hype and copy protection. I could be wrong. So yes, I have a nagging feeling it could be safe, if boring, to get a "universal" player. I may join you, Two Cents. If one had to choose between DVD-A and SACD, surely one would go for DVD-A. However, DVD is sort of associated with home theatre, and SACD with hifi audio. It's wrong, but it is often public preconceptions that are decisive. Wish we could just say "let the best man win" and wait for the decision of informed consumer choice in a free market. I have often thought it is really capitalism that is a great idea in theory, but no-one has ever really managed to put it into practice... |
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Bronze Member Username: MyrantzPost Number: 59 Registered: Feb-04 | Could it be that both formats DVD-A and SACD will coexist being that Sony is already a huge player in the music recording industry and many other labels are releasing DVD-A's? To me, whether one is inclined to support Sony or not, having a universal player seems the way to go for overall choice. I only wish they'd add HDCD as well to lower cost players. |
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Bronze Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 45 Registered: Feb-04 | John A--AIX has a limited but interesting catalog, including some classical titles. What is notable is their recording process which maintains a 96 mHz/24 bit digital signal path from the microphones to the DVD-A. Check out their website for more info: http://www.aixrecords.com/catalog/catalog.html |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 409 Registered: Dec-03 | Two Cents, That's great. Looks really interesting. I will see if I have a local distributor. Their demo/test disk looks like something for anyone left in doubt about DVD-A. I cannot give a direct Naxos link, but you go to www.naxos.com, choose the left-hand pull-down "Labels and series", then "Labels", then "Naxos DVD Audio". They have actually released more titles than are listed there. I have about eight, and they are sonically superb, even when recorded at 48 or 44 kHz, which some are. It must be the 24-bit that makes a real difference. The recording themselves are outsourced, as with all Naxos, I think, but that means you probably get different sorts of audio experts at the controls. The Moscow State recordings are ace, I find that remarkable. Naxos does not hype the medium at all: perhaps they should try a bit harder! |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 424 Registered: Dec-03 | No player yet. Any opinions? Meanwhile, with DVD-A discs, I am back in the golden days of buying my first LPs. That is, I buy things that are cheap, and have nice covers. Then, I listen, enjoy, and learn something. I've just listened to the Naxos Prokofiev "Alexander Nevsky" DVD-A, bought just because it was the only new disc in stock. I would never have gone near the CD in a hundred years, and would certainly have turned it off the radio. But it's brilliant. Same with their Shostakovich "Jazz Suites". I might get Tubular Bells, too, of course; no-one is immune to nostalgia. A review says that it is the same old stuff, but with the instruments wandering round the room. And John Cleese, instead of Mike Oldfield, speaking the names in the last track. My problem is, with DVD-A discs, the sound is so good in DTS. That rare combination of bone-shaking, deep, deep bass, with complete clarity and sweet directionality in the treble. It wraps you around. Shelling out for a new player, just to see if it can improve on that, seems like high risk. And my wife thinks I am crazy. Well, she knew that already, I guess. Meanwhile, I (we, really) cannot recommend "Master and Commander" too highly. Completely engrossing. Watch/listen to that in DTS format, and tell me how sound could be better. The cannon..... And drowning off Cape Horn, to Vaughan Williams, is surely a way to go. SACD vs DVD-A: DVD-A is surely the lesser of two weevils. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 11 Registered: Mar-04 | John A. said: "I might get Tubular Bells, too, of course; no-one is immune to nostalgia. A review says that it is the same old stuff, but with the instruments wandering round the room. And John Cleese, instead of Mike Oldfield, speaking the names in the last track." Really? That's interesting. Hmmm, this may go on my list to pick up...thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 49 Registered: Feb-04 | Been listening to Mahler's 2nd on a Teldec DVD-A. Even on my budget HT system the sound is phenomenal. One actually gets the acoustical feel of being in a concert hall. The imaging of the music is astounding. Even though I'm not a Mehta fan, he and the Israel Phil give a credible performance of this powerful work. And now for something completely different... If you're interested in hearing instruments swirling around you, you might want to try Flaming Lips' "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots 5.1" It is by far the most interesting use of surround sound on a musical disc. Who needs mind-bending drugs when you have surround sound like this. It's safer, but probably no less expensive, than drugs. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 428 Registered: Dec-03 | Sem, Great to hear from you. DVD-A Review: Mike Oldfield - 'Tubular Bells 2003'. The review is about as pretentious as you can get, imho. Could have been scripted by the Python team. Still, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. Two Cents, Thanks, again. I have Blomstedt/San Franciso Symphony Mahler 2 Decca CD. I personally find Mahler a bit scary. Man, he took himself seriously. But yes, he could have been writing for surround sound. I do hope that Tubular Bells reviewer never gets into Mahler. It is Sunday where I am, so forgive me wandering off just a bit. This DVD-A business is extraordinary. On other threads I have gone into pretentious mode myself about the Naxos Vaughan Williams Sea Symphony. Just try it. "Powerful work" indeed. Trouble is, it is. One of the barriers to "classical" music is recorded sound quality, I always think. Maybe DVD-A will lower it a bit. Yet listen to all the thrilling movies, and what have you got? Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer, John Williams, writing "serious" and really clever stuff that will surely last and last. And it has tunes, shock, horror.. Try "The music" supplementary feature in the extended Fellowship or The Two Towers, for example. Listen for "The Shire" theme. Listen to what Shore does with "The Fellowship" theme: where it finally comes together, where it finally falls apart. The funny thing is, these have all their effects, in the movies themselves, without you even knowing, and the average watcher, just as thrilled, could probably not even name the instruments. But he/she still knows subliminally the clarinet is rustic, a horn section noble and heroic, a male bonding sort of thing. Strange. This morning I am posting gratuitous plugs of "Master and Commander", My Rantz will testify. Awesome. Really. Everything. Including the music. Vaughan Williams for rounding Cape Horn. Which? No, not the Sea Symphony. The Tallis Fantasia. Speaking of whom, here is the ultimate surround DVD-A/SACD, imho. It's in 4.0. I read it has been recorded in 40.0, too, the only logical next step. There are no players, of course. Yet. As before, if anything short of 40.0 can improve on the DTS format on the DVD-A, I shall attempt to eat my hat. End of sponsored feature, folks. As for "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots 5.1" - surely you made that up? |
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Bronze Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 52 Registered: Feb-04 | John A. As always, you've given some interesting recommendations. I'm especially interested in viewing Master and Commander and listening to the Tallis disc. As for Yoshimi, why would I kid you? http://www.musictap.net/Reviews/FlamingLipsYoshimiDVDA.html |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 434 Registered: Dec-03 | Two Cents, You, too! Where else would I have heard of The Flaming Lips? Many thanks. I confess I didn't notice their hit "She don't use jelly". Now, I'll listen out especially for "Ego Tripping at the Gates of Hell". I have that Tallis DVD-A. Really, really something. But these are all acquired tastes. It's refreshing to hear of someone else's eclectic approach. We had a party a while back. A student looked at my CD collection and said "It's a bit, er, narrow, isn't it". My wife, usually cool, actually laughed uncontrollably, and said "Are you completely out of you mind? Narrow? There's 800 years of music there!". True to the nearest century. I doubt if said student had heard of Flaming Lips, either, and imagine she thought "Early Music" meant Elton John. BTW have ordered some Aix DVD-A stuff, as posted on the other thread. Great link you gave. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 449 Registered: Dec-03 | I have bought the NAD T533. This is an edited version of a post on another thread. Thanks to all for the input. 1. Yes, DVD-A is better than DTS. Quite a lot. I would never have believed it possible. It is such a pleasure to hear. Just like being there. So many interesting things happening in the music I hadn't noticed before. Little ones and big ones. 2. Cd sounds even better than on the T532. I have not tried so many CDs yet, so it could just be my enjoyment of the music. 3. Dolby Digital AC3 is consistently better, clearer, more detail, using the T533 AC3 processor for the "Ext 5.1" analogue input to the receiver. Many DVD-V discs are in Dolby 5.1 only, so this is an unexpected bonus. My preliminary but clear conclusion is the NAD T533 gives astonishing sound quality for the money, and DVD-A really lives up to all the promises |
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Bronze Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 66 Registered: Feb-04 | John, Congratulations on your new player. I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I look forward to DVD-A recommendations once you start exploring that format. Perhaps there should be a software topic on this forum for music and video disks. |
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Bronze Member Username: SemPost Number: 25 Registered: Mar-04 | Two Cents that's a great idea!! Some of my favorite music and movie discs I've bought strictly based on recommendation. This is one category that would dove-tail quite nicely into this forum. |
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Silver Member Username: John_aPost Number: 453 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Two Cents. You too, Sem, on the other thread. There were some good suggestions, last year, for discs, on the thread What's the best dvd to test out my new system?. If the thread were still open I would add "Master and Commander", but I've plugged that enough. "Chocolate" has some great effects. It is one of my wife's all-time favourite movies: it's not the sound, but the gentle humour, also, possibly, Johnny Depp. Without mascara. About DVD-A, and the T533, I will report back. |
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New member Username: Frank_lPost Number: 6 Registered: Dec-04 | Ladies/Gents Happy new year to all. Now that the formalities are out of the way - Q about T533 - John A and other experienced guys - I thought DVD-A is only output on ther 5+1 channel analog outputs ... so bought the cables to connect to receiver .. but before hooking up gave it a try through the optical port .. and guess what - it's working!!!! So now listening to my first ever DVD-A - a Fleetwood Mac master piece .. lol |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 394 Registered: Mar-04 | Frank, Happy New Year to you as well. As far as I know, the DVD-A layer can only be heard via the 5.1 analog outputs. Many, (most?) DVD-A discs also include a DTS layer encoded on them. Perhaps this is what you're hearing? What player/receiver combo are you using? On my DVD player I have the option of turning digital output on/off and also DVD-A on/off. Depending on which I select, I can listen to the DTS or the DVD-A layer. |
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New member Username: Frank_lPost Number: 7 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi Sem It's a NAD T533 player with a T773 receiver. Another issue - if I only want to listen stereo I'd imagine I can set the DVD-A setup to 2 channel and only connect front L/R to the 7.1 (analog) input to the receiver??? On a personal note - always wondered how is it that my parents (in their 70's) cannot figure out the operation of a stereo ghetto blaster .. and here I sit with now with questions regarding my new system with no problems previously whatsoever to figure out any system even without a manual .... khmmm... history seems to repeat itself?...lol |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 397 Registered: Mar-04 | Yes. That's correct. Yes, technology moves on, seemingly in the passing lane. Meanwhile our minds, (mine anyway), seems stuck in the breakdown lane at times  |
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