Old speakers versus new speakers
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Bronze Member Username: OccamPost Number: 11 Registered: Jul-05 | Besides age, are there any problems with buying older speakers. I was thinking in terms of sound quality. I found some nice older ones from up to twenty years ago. A few of these had very large woofers. I have noticed that todays speakers have smaller drivers. |
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Bronze Member Username: AudioholicPost Number: 92 Registered: Apr-05 | Neil, the larger the woofer the more it takes to move it. It also becomes more difficult to stop it. This, in my opinion, along with massive improvements in small driver technology, is why few designers are using large woofers. What are you looking at? |
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Silver Member Username: DiabloFylde Coast, England Post Number: 167 Registered: Dec-04 | Most of the 'average' bookshelf or floorstanding speakers on sale today will use the the 'bass relex' system. This has the effect of extending the bass response somewhat. Twenty years ago, the 'infinite baffle' was more common (a sealed box). A bigger bass drive unit was often used to increase bass response. There are advantages and disadvantages with each system. If you buy some older speakers, check out the roll surrounds around the drivers, these can perish with age and can be expensive to replace. I don't have time to give a more complete explanation at the moment. |
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Somed00d Unregistered guest | The older speakers were meant for two channel stereo listening. A lot of the speakers today are meant for Home Theatre, especially the budget speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4526 Registered: May-04 | How old is old? Some people have speakers that are 20, 40 or even 70 years old. I've read questions on this forum which speak of "old, antique" products from the late 1990's. Which is it? |
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Silver Member Username: EdisonGlendale, CA US Post Number: 798 Registered: Dec-03 | You are most likely going to use a CD player, so I would go with a new one - voiced for digital, they will sound better with a CD player, most likely. Also, on older ones, you might have to rebuild the x-over to get good sounds - capacitors drying out. I would stick to new ones - unless you find one that you like the sound of, with your cd player. I do have old JBL 4311 I like - since they have alnico magnets - but I am going to pair them with a turntable. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 965 Registered: Feb-04 | You are most likely going to use a CD player, so I would go with a new one - voiced for digital, they will sound better with a CD player, most likely. Why is that? For one thing, CDs came out over 20 years ago... Like Jan said, how old is old? And, speakers voiced for digital? I'm never heard that. What does it mean? Also, on older ones, you might have to rebuild the x-over to get good sounds - capacitors drying out. Something I plan to do myself... |
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Bronze Member Username: OccamPost Number: 25 Registered: Jul-05 | The speakers I am looking at are from the mid 80's to early 90's. I still listen to mostly two channel stereo. By the way, aren't bookshelf speakers (recent models) supposed to deliver better midrange than similarly graded floorstanding? |
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Silver Member Username: MixneffectOrangevale, Ca. USA Post Number: 300 Registered: Apr-05 | Age has no impact on craftsmanship, engineering, and design. There are products out there that are 10-20-30- even 40 years old that were way ahead of their time as far as engineering and quality of workmanship is concerned. The invereted dome tweeter debuted in the late 60's-early 70's. Pulp paper cones offer probably the highest acuracy and charachter, compared to just about any other diaphragm out there. Audio science has been arround for one century. There has been limited growth in engineering and design as of lately. Most of the stuff you see nowadays is a knock-off of an older technology. IMO, what you get nowadays is, the same old designs with an upgrade in esthetics. Oh ya, warranty...............(if that is important to you) |
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Silver Member Username: EdisonGlendale, CA US Post Number: 816 Registered: Dec-03 | Peter, I was chatting on www.audioasylum.com and someone told me that speaker designer's today have digital source in mind when they are testing them out, so they are voiced for digital, and the old pre digital era speakers had analog in mind, and sound better with a turntable. This was a good reason for me to get sony es CD player and a receiver, and mission speakers, and somehow they do sound "right" I had old speakers and old amp with a cd player, and I was never quite happy with it - constantly upgrading and tweaking. Now, I am happy with my newer after-CD era stuff. I just bought a turntable to mate it with the old stuff I have - see if I will be able to salvage them - possibly like them even more, since many audiophiles are returning to a turntable. You might want to visit a hifi shop and hear it for yourself. I was a believer after my hearing. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 973 Registered: Feb-04 | Well James, That's interesting. In my case I'm perfectly happy playing CDs on my 1978 speakers... Good reproduction then still means good reproduction now, to my ears anyway. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4568 Registered: May-04 | " was chatting on www.audioasylum.com and someone told me that speaker designer's today have digital source in mind ... " Someone! Who is this "someone" who keeps appearing on all these forums dispensing worthless ideas? The advice this "someone" would give you is don't take advice from "someone". Think it through for yourself. Music has not changed in the past 50 years. Designing for digital or analog sound only suggests you're deviating from the accuracy of the music. If you want to listen to digital, then you're not listening to the music. The point "someone" was possibly making might be a bit broader than what you took away from there. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1255 Registered: Feb-05 | Jan..."hip hop", perhaps music has changed a little in the last 50 years. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4571 Registered: May-04 | It's still music no matter what some people may think. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 980 Registered: Feb-04 | But more low frequency content these days... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4572 Registered: May-04 | Does that make it "digital ready"? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1258 Registered: Feb-05 | The questions are; What is it recorded with and who is the intended audience? Are there any assumptions about the playback equipment? 50 years ago most music was played on acoustic instruments and recorded with analog equipment to be played on analog systems. Much has changed in 50 yrs. |
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Growbag Unregistered guest | I now have a pair of Klipschorns having wanted a pair for years. I am VERY disapointed with the sound. There is no treble and no bass, smart. I played a test dic and this confirmed it, nothing above 16khz and very little below 60hz. I wouldn't mind but they aren't exactly high resoloution in the midband!!. HELP. IDEAS PLEASE. PS Yes they are working fine, yes they are in phase, yes they are in corners, yes the rest of the gear is proven. They fill the room and are obviously efficient but that all. Thanks. Paul. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 982 Registered: Feb-04 | Growbag, please don't highjack threads. Start a new onw, or better yet go to the Klipsch forums for help. http://forums.klipsch.com/ The Khorns go to 17 KHz at -3 db. If you get nothing below 60 Hz, they are not sealed into corners. My house shakes with a 40 Hz test tone and they are solid to low thirties. You'll also need to specify your room size, and others wll ask what you are driving them with. But I won't answer any further within this thread. -- Back on topic... Perhaps "voiced for digital" is just a bad way of saying "able to reproduce the electronic boom-boom iof hip-hop"? Anyway, you can always use a sub for that! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1259 Registered: Feb-05 | Not just hip hop Peter. Have you heard the music of Medeski, Martin, and Wood. Very interesting music and often very digital. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 985 Registered: Feb-04 | Haven't... I was using hip-hop as an example only. :-) |
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Silver Member Username: W00bPost Number: 188 Registered: Mar-05 | actually.. i am going to disagree on the more low frequency content comment. If you have ever listened to old school hip hop, they have much more carrying bass than today's newer rap. there are a few exceptions of course, but just about every old school rap group (eric b and rakim, digital underground, etc) had a ton of bass throughout their songs. I listen to a wide range of music.. not as wide as some people, but for each new artist I pick up, i note certain things.. look up artist history (www.allmusic.com is my best friend, honestly.) each friday is my "random day" where i will goto the CD store, pick a genre that is not the same as last week's genre, and then pick a random CD. I have found more things I like than things that I don't like, and it has expanded my knowledge of genre's aswell. just my 2 cents  |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4576 Registered: May-04 | "50 years ago most music was played on acoustic instruments and recorded with analog equipment to be played on analog systems. Much has changed in 50 yrs." I'd still have to disagree, Art. Music hasn't changed, we may have added more "instruments" to play music with; but music is still mostly the same as it was 50 years, or 150 years, ago. Twelve tones, rhythm, melody, harmony, etc. That hasn't changed. Some music has been affected by foreign influences; but music is basically still music. |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 19 Registered: Jul-05 | But but but...My Panasonic hi-fi speakers say they are digital ready and they can play up to 50kHz! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4578 Registered: May-04 | Have you heard them do it? |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 20 Registered: Jul-05 | Indeed I have. Theyre rated up to 50kHz at -16dB, which is still very audible to me. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1265 Registered: Feb-05 | "Twelve tones, rhythm, melody, harmony, etc. That hasn't changed. Some music has been affected by foreign influences; but music is basically still music." Jan, if you haven't figured out that music is what you do with the characteristics that you listed and not the characteristics themselves, I won't be the first to tell you. What we do with those characteristics has changed dramatically in the last 50 years. I don't even know what to say about the "foreign influences" statement. All music is foreign to someone. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 987 Registered: Feb-04 | Theyre rated up to 50kHz at -16dB, which is still very audible to me. Kidding, right? |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 23 Registered: Jul-05 | Probably. You never know though, I could be half cat or something. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4582 Registered: May-04 | Thank you, Art. That was very helpful information. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1268 Registered: Feb-05 | As was yours. Thank you. Now perhaps we can both move past sarcasm. |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 29 Registered: Jul-05 | If I might offer my thoughts... Music has obviously changed in some aspects, but there are fundamental properties still there, as Jan pointed out. There is nothing so radically new to music that 40 year old speakers can't handle it. Pushing air is the same now as it ever was, no? Of course, technology has gotten better. Peter's speakers can only manage 17kHz at the top end, while mine can manage 50kHz . Sure, I probably won't hear a difference, but its there. As I recall though, that was done intentionally to some degree on older speakers to reduce the amount of high frequency garbage on LP's. I could be mistaken however. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1269 Registered: Feb-05 | I agree DA. Elements or characteristics of music have not changed but music itself has. Pushing air is still pushing air, but some means of pushing air are more suited to communicating specific genres of music. I wouldn't play hip hop on Magnepan MMG's. They don't even play the bass in Sarah McLachlan's "Surfacing" record. |
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Bronze Member Username: Devils_advocatePost Number: 30 Registered: Jul-05 | Perhaps. Owners of various exotic speakers might argue that their speakers are good at everything. Take a Wilson X1 for example. It certainly has the bass to do hip hop justice and the finesse to do Sarah right. Either way, it is neither here nor there. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1270 Registered: Feb-05 | Having heard all of the Wilson line up except the X2 I can tell you that they can do justice to all music types. Having owned Maggies (SMGa's, MMG's and MG12's) I can tell you that they don't. But, oh my, what they do right is something else again. I loved my Maggies for classical and jazz. |
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