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New member Username: MethenewbiePost Number: 9 Registered: Jul-05 | Hello, I have heard an Onkyo tx-sr602 connected to KEF 1005s. Sounded great, but someone told me to check out HK as well and also opined that HK offers more bang for the buck. 1. Is that true? 2. Which HK receivers with comparable price, wattage, etc should I be looking at? $300+ $400- 3. Is HK notorious for listing their surround sound ratings lower than most companies? Onkyo tx sr602 lists at 85w per channel. It is high current. Thanks. |
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Anonymous | just announced at homecinemachoice.com that onkyo is releasing a replacement to 602 the new 603 so you might want to wait for that.HK has more vesatile bass management which is usefull if you have say very tiny rear speakers and big front speakers.I personally think onkyo is probably just as powerful as Hk (both are high current even though Hk advertises up the 30 amps power,but that does not translate into more ability to power speakers necessarily because to do that you still need the basics like more capacitors etc. which HK doesn't have more than onkyo in fact onkyo could have more than HK-in the HK the high current mostly affects the sound as being possibly just a bit more detailed,but also possibly more aggressive sounding than onkyo which if you have bright speakers could be a problem,but if you have overly smooth speakers that could be better-onkyo is basically just as powerfull).Bestpriceaudiovideo and maybe bhphotovideo will have the new onkyo when it arrives-I would wait for that if you go with onkyo(if you can wait). |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 272 Registered: Feb-05 | Me the Newbie: Onkyo as of late does have a better build quality especially in their flagship the TRX1000. Onkyo claims to be a high current design amplifier and this is very apparent in the TRX 1000 but in their underling models this claim doesn't seem to hold up. All of the Onkyo's except the 1000 use a considerable bit of current limiting in their amplifier sections. This is a rather antiquated solution for amplifier protection. HK on the other hand, does not employ such current limiting in any of their models. Most of the Onkyo's save the flagship are quite intolerant of a demanding speaker, specifically one that dips into a low impedence as low as 4Ohms and will readily go into protection mode when such a situation is encountered. This is not the case with HK which will drive most 4 Ohm rated speakers on the market with no problem. HK recievers will maintain their composure right up to clipping volume levels where the Onkyo would have gone into protection long beforehand. Don't take my word for it do a head to head comparison for yourself and you will see what I am talking about. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 275 Registered: Feb-05 | I can also tell that anonymous doesn't know much about electricity. "HK advertises up to 30 amps of power but that doesn't translate into more ability to power speakers necessarily because you still need more basic's like more capicitors" Current is what drives speakers. A capacitor is a voltage operated device, that is it stores a charge in the form of an electrostatic field or voltage. Current "appears" to flow in a capacitor when they are actually an open circuit. A transformer on the other hand is a current operated device, in which the voltage leads the current and they are out of phase by 90 degrees. An inductor opposes a change of current. Take for example the HK AVR 7300 with it's dual 37KuF capacitors, some of the largest ever employed in a receiver. |
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Das Poopenchuten Unregistered guest | Note: The above is based off a single test where ALL channels are driven to max, something that doesn't happen too often in real life, and if it does, 10 extra watts isn't going to mean diddly to you anyways. Also, which would you rather have, a receiver that will let you kill it, or one that won't? Also, a lowly TX-SR501 can hammer a AVR 330 in one channel, 8 or 4 ohms. Not to mention the 501 did deliver a respectable amount of power given its rating, even in protection mode. Also keep in mind that when you are talking wattage, a doubling of power is only a 3dB gain. So while 50 to 100 watts might seem like a lot, it isnt. Cheers. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 276 Registered: Feb-05 | What a name "Das Poopenchuten" you have got to be kidding! but any way the Onkyo's except the flagship are protection mode wimps. Besides you missing the point here, this is not about power it is about an amplifier's ability to produce extra current to drive speakers. the European Onkyo models can tolerate lower impedence speakers from what i've read but the USA MODELS CANNOT! |
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Das Poopenchuten Unregistered guest | Do you have proof to indicate they cannot? Like I said, the Onkyo pushed more power into 4 ohms than the HK did into one channel, indicating it can push a decent amount of current too. |
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Das Poopenchuten Unregistered guest | Ohh and the source is from S&V, so I trust they are using USA models. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/1117200314244.pdf http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/322004163324.pdf |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 277 Registered: Feb-05 | Yes got to their (Onkyo's) website.Use of speakers under 6Ohms not reccomended for USA models. This is also through a resistor device not an actual speaker- not realistic. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 278 Registered: Feb-05 | Sine tone tests are also a very unrealistic torture test for a receiver and of course never be encountered in a real listening situation. I don't care much for these type of tests. as nearly any reciever will go into protection with this type of test. |
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Das Poopenchuten Unregistered guest | I could be wrong, but IIRC a lot of manufacturers don't recommend the use of low impedence speakers, including some like Marantz and HK in their lower end models. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 279 Registered: Feb-05 | Check HK's website www.Harman Kardon.com got under FAQ's "will my receiver handle a 4 Ohm load?" |
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Das Poopenchuten Unregistered guest | I mean, being realistic, an Onkyo receiver will play most speakers loudly enough for just about any sane individual. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 280 Registered: Feb-05 | Yes Das but so will just about any other receiver. The point is that while decent the Onkyo's are they are not in the same league as HK, Denon and Marantz as far as amplification is concearned. |
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Anonymous | Let me pose a question. Assume for a second that we are only talking about 8 ohm speakers with a fairly flat impedence curve that are relatively easy to drive. Also assume that volumes will not require the receivers be anywhere near maximum power. What kind of difference in the actual sound will there be between the HK and the Onkyo? Why? |
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Anonymous | Or for that matter, a NAD or anything else. |