New and need help with receivers
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New member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-05 | allright, i'm sure you guys get plenty of annoying newbs here and i'm sorry, but i'm gonna be the next one. i'm an absolute amateur when it comes to home audio (i'm a car audio buff, having competed with the IASCA). well my old roommate left a couple of digital audio monitor speakers when he left (i know their a p.o.s., but they were free and i'm a poor college student, so i didn't care), so I bought a cheap pyramid home amp for them so I could power them substantially. Now what i'm confused about is how surround sound systems work. Can you actually get external speakers to work with regular television, or is it only for dvd players, playstations, etc? If it does work for regular tv, how so? Do some receivers have an input for the TV cable and that's how they get the sound? Also, the amp that i bought for those speakers, albeit good, have no remote for the volume control (only 2 knobs which you adjust), so my thinking was that I'd buy a receiver that has a remote control so i could control the volume to those speakers and also accept the audio inputs for all my different stuff (dvd player, playstation 2, etc). How should I go about this? I'm not interested in tons of features or whatever, just something with a remote so when i'm watching TV or a movie while those things are on, I can lower the volume from my couch instead of having to get up repeatedly and adjust those damn knobs. thanks for the help, I appreciate it. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1252 Registered: Mar-05 | A lot depends on what kinds of plug connections your TV has. If your TV has audio outputs you run those into the AV receiver; if not, you'll have to use your VCR's tuner to watch TV. Some TVs nowadays even have speaker terminals but usually only 2 channels and I imagine the SQ probably sucks due to underpowering. What's your max budget, room size, and %music to HT use? Do you watch a lot of action movies? What type of music? These are the kinds of questions you have to figure out first. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 204 Registered: May-05 | If you have a cable box like a scientific atlanta (most common brand - used by Time Warner, Comcast, Cable Vision, Adelphia) it should have some audio outputs on the back of it. They should be RCA's. These should fit into your amp. VCR's, DVD players, and anything else I can think of also have RCA's on the back for audio output. Playstation2 - If you have the 3 wire RCA setup (Red, yellow, and white) you can plug the red and white into the amp, and the yellow into the tv. The tv won't have any sound coming from it's own speakers (I think), it will only come from the speakers attached to the amp. Being a car audio guy, I'm assuming you know about impedence matching with an amp and speakers. Now for a bit of very important information - If the speakers you have are "Digital Audio," do not get a new receiver. These are part of the infamous "White Van Scam" (look it up, it's amazing). They have unpredictable impedence loads that can do some serious damage to the amp. I know it's a pain in the butt not having a remote (I went without one for about 8 years), but the speakers will most likely ruin any receiver you hook them up to. Buy a decent pair of speakers, then think about upgrading your amp. One more thing, you're not going to get surround sound from a 2 channel amp. You will need a receiver that is surround sound capible (99% of them today are). |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 205 Registered: May-05 | Sorry - The Impedence matching part was supposed to go with the warning about your speakers. Bad editing... |
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New member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 2 Registered: Jul-05 | i did look up the great white van scam, i thought it was absolutely hilarious. Keep in mind, my old roommate was the one scammed, I picked these pieces of crap up for free. I already bench tested them and checked their impedances, parallel wired them to the amp, and they work well (for free speakers, they work fine for me!). Sorry, I realize now I should've put up more information about my situation. I'm in an apartment and do not have a cable box. However I did find that receiver article (I actually did try looking for info on this stuff before I posted, but there's a lot to assimilate for a newb) and my best option is to go ahead and use the VCR as my cable. Now my new thing is, can I hook up the amp and speakers to a receiver I'd purchase and be able to control the volume from there? I would imagine that the receiver has audio outs that the receiver can monitor and control the volume. My ultimate goal is to have everything coming out of those speakers powered by the amplifier with a receiver controlling the volume. Sounds feasible? |
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New member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 3 Registered: Jul-05 | Oh, and my TV's a good 4 or 5 years old, all it has is one set of RCA inputs. It would make life insensitively easier if it had a pair of audio outputs, because then the volume (I would imagine) could be controlled directly by the television and the world would be one of sunshine and kittens! I'd upgrade the amp, it's a pyramid, trust me I'd love to upgrade, but what for? These are no Martin Logans (or in the car audio world, JL Audio W7s) by any means, so why give them a good amplifier if they aren't good speakers to begin with? I understand the controversy of that statement, a good amp can make even the worst of speakers sound surprisingly decent. However, I'm a starving college student in a fraternity, I picked these things up for free and I figured anything would sound better than the TV speakers. The amp takes care of business, I'm just lazy and would like to find a receiver to hook them up to so I can turn the volume up or down without having to adjust the knobs. Once again, thanks for all the help guys. |
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New member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 4 Registered: Jul-05 | Jeez, I keep forgetting to mention stuff each time. Budget-wise is preferably low. I'm not in the market for a high-end receiver, just one that has a good chunk of inputs and outputs, and a remote so I can control the volume. My money is better spent towards school books and alcohol right now haha. |
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patnshan Unregistered guest | Regarding budget receivers, I have heard that the sherwood HT receivers have great bang for the buck. Also check UBID for lower end yamaha and kenwoods. HK has an E-Bay site that sells refurbs from the factory. They also come highly recommended. Pat |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 207 Registered: May-05 | Ivan - I was in the same boat a few years back. I wasn't sure if you were going to put some money into the receiver, so that down the road you had something decent, or if you were going to get something to just get you through school. If the second is the case, pick up the cheapest 2 channel receiver you can get. I think Sony sells one for about $100-$120 (Circuit City may have it). I knew it wasn't you who got scammed. And I don't bust anyone's balls about it - they got my father back in the day (read a post I started in the speaker section about my experiences - I think it's called great speaker stories). As for sound - anything hooked up to the receiver will come out of the scam speakers. It will most likely come out of the tv too, but you can mute or turn the volume down all the way. You can also put the towers in different parts of the room and use the tv speakers as normal to get different sound "effects." There is no one right or wrong way to go. It's up to you. I did the same thing in college - connected my amp to the vcr, then put 2 towers in the back of the room, and got a ghetto surround sound when I turned up the volume on the tv. It really wasn't bad at all. If you want to spend more money on a receiver that you can put better speakers onto down the road, we can make some suggestions if need be. |
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New member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 5 Registered: Jul-05 | I appreciate the help, I would spend more money on a receiver because I've always been into higher end audio (I'm a firm believer of it usually costs that much because it's worth it, with the exception of the white van scam of course). However, I just moved into a new apartment where I pay close to $500 a month, I work at a job that only pays $8 an hour, and school's sneaking up so my financial situation is going to be taking a huge dive soon. I'll end up going with the "ghetto" setup you were talking about to conserve cash, and whenever we throw a party or two, I can always hook my laptop up to them (I originally had them hooked up to my computer, but now that I have a cool roommate, I threw them out in the living room so it'd look/sound nicer). Thanks once again for the suggestions though, really appreciate the help. Here's hoping later on in life I can come in here and ask for some help but with a much larger budget haha. Audio's always fun and home audio seems to be much easier to do than car audio (you don't have to dynamat your house, etc). |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 210 Registered: May-05 | One more thing - Unless you plan on buying or somehow getting 3 more speakers, don't get a surround sound receiver (unless it's cheap), get a stereo receiver (2 channel). The extra amps/channels in a surround receiver aren't worth the extra money if you're not going to use them.. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 211 Registered: May-05 | "don't have to dynamat your house, etc" Depends on where you live, how loud you like it, and how loud you landlord likes it... |
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patnshan Unregistered guest | UBID has a 5.1 onkyo refurb with 1 year warranty for $100 right now. I would get that before a cheap sony 2 channel, but that's just me. I agree with the two channel thing, but sony's are not regarded as being too good. If you can get an onkyo for the same price, I would. That's just me though. Then you could get three more speakers from the guys in the white van in the future  ) Pat |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 218 Registered: May-05 | I definately agree with you Pat. I was just thinking of the most inexpensive thing off the top of my head. I'd take Onkyo (even though they aren't what they once were - by a long shot) over Sony any day. |
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New member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 6 Registered: Jul-05 | ok, well i got a cheap sherwood yesterday and it's getting returned today because it didn't do what I thought it would. At least now I know how to better explain my situation. Basically I need a receiver that can take an RCA input (the audio signal from my TV), be able to adjust the volume on it, and then spit it out the RCA output which is going to the external amplifier I have (which is connected to my speakers). The receiver doesn't need to be an amp itself as I will not be connecting any speakers to it, however I was wondering if there is a receiver that can take an input, adjust the volume, and send it out through an RCA output. What I noticed is that this receiver I purchased doesn't do that, It can't take an input and convert it to an output that I can control the volume on. I don't know if you guys understand what I'm talking about. I'll try to elaborate further if you're still confused. |
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New member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 7 Registered: Jul-05 | ok, now slowly but surely understanding this more, maybe this will make my long, complicated post a little easier to understand. I was reading the article on receiver set up and connection and it spoke of pre-outs and how you could hook up an external amplifier to a pre-out in order to decrease the work-load on the amp. This is perfect, exactly what I want. Now my question is, is the signal being sent out by the pre-out moderated by the receiver, or is it a constant, unadultered signal? Basically, can the receiver increase or decrease the volume on the signal being sent out on a pre-out? I can tell you right now the Sherwood I just bought does not do that at all haha. Man, this can get complicating, but it's all starting to make sense. Thanks everybody. |
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New member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 8 Registered: Jul-05 | The preamp " The preamplifier is the nerve center of the receiver. It performs a couple of major functions: it routes the signals from your source components (these signals are called line-level signals) to your amp and it serves as a volume controller. So when you choose to listen to a compact disc, for example, the CD player sends a line-level signal to your preamp, which then controls the system's playback volume according to your specifications before passing the signal on to your amplifier." OK, I feel like a tool, but I think this is what I need according to what I'm asking, correct? If so, any recommendations? Wow, sorry to bug so much guys, but I have no internet at home and there's a lot of receiver articles, it's difficult to get through them all at work haha. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 230 Registered: May-05 | Ivan - After reading what you've written, you're right. You need a pre-amp or something that allows you to seperate the pre-amp and power amp. Generally, a pre-amp may be even more expensive than a low-end receiver. Most integrated amps also have pre-amp outputs, and some higher end receivers have pre-amp outputs, but they tend to get pretty expensive. I know you already have the Pyramid amp, but do you really need to use it? The receivers do have amplification built into them. The cheapest pre-amp I have seen is Audio Source. I have no idea how good it sounds, it's reliability, etc. It may fit your application though - http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=23927 You may also might want to try e-bay, but you never really know what your going to get or who it's coming from. If you're going to try the e-bay route, let us know what you're looking at before you buy it. Chances are someone here has some experience with it. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 231 Registered: May-05 | I just realized - I don't think that one has a remote control. There is a 1-800 number, so you may want to call and find out if it does or doesn't. I saw a few other ones on there that were cheaper (mainly DJ pre-amps, but I don't think they had remotes either. |
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New member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 9 Registered: Jul-05 | awesome, at least we understand each other now. I tried hooking the speakers up to the receiver and the sound quality was subpar. Mind you, I did spend only $70 on the receiver so I wasn't expecting it to sound fantastic, but they actually sound really decent with the amplifier (it's a decently powerful amplifier and those scam speakers sound pretty good with them). If worse comes to worse, I'll find a pretty good receiver that has good amplification and just sell the amp, but if I could find a pre-out that could do the job I'd want it to do, then that would be fantastic. Thanks for the help. |
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New member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 10 Registered: Jul-05 | Oh, another question, there aren't any stereo receivers with built in pre-amps in them? because that would definitely fit my description. It'd be nice if the stereo feature would work through the pre-amp instead of just the speaker outlets, If not, then i'd have no use for the stereo receiver. Haha, we're getting closer and closer to the answer. While I just finished writing this, I've been looking online for something that fits the description. You weren't kidding, they are expensive. Hopefully I can just find one for about $100-150 bucks, and I guess screw the stereo feature as the stereo pre-amps I've seen run about $400 bucks. |
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Bronze Member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 11 Registered: Jul-05 | OK, I think I found exactly what I'm looking for. A bit steep for my price range, but it seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. it's the Denon Stereo Receiver, Model DRA295R. here's the link so you guys can check it out: http://www.abtelectronics.com/scripts/site/site_product.php3?id=6190 It has the preamp outs that I'm looking for (at least it looks like that's what I'm looking for), and I actually have some small crap speakers that were hooked up to my old stereo and I could attach those to the amplifier itself to get that "surround sound" effect going on. What do you guys think? Obviously I'm gonna do some price searching, since I'm sure I can find it cheaper elsewhere, but I just want to verify that this is what I need. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1265 Registered: Mar-05 | Ivan, nope, I doubt a $70 Sherwood would have pre-outs. If I were you I'd spend maybe an extra $100 for this and ditch the Pyramid amp: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem%26item%3D5789122044&category=67799 (should go for $150-200) And for a surround receiver with pre-outs just in case you really are that attached to the Pyramid: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem%26item%3D5789113115&category=39794 (should go for $180-250) |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 233 Registered: May-05 | http://www.harmanaudiooutlet.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNum ber=HK%203380-Z&status= This seems like a good receiver at a good price. It is refurbished by Harman/Kardon and carries a warantee is if it were new. Others here can fill you in about that stuff, I've never bought from them but I think Edster922 has. It has a per-out/main in loop (I had to look for it but it's in the intiial description). This is $177, where as I haven't seen the Denon for under $250. I think that they will probably be very close sonically, especially if your not using it's power amp. I don't know much about Pyramid amps other than a few car amps I came across a while back, but I think it may sound better than the amp you have now. When did Pyramid start making home audio? |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 234 Registered: May-05 | I didn't realize that the first one Edster mentioned is the same one I did. The difference is that the first one is on e-bay, and the second is direct from harman kardon. Both from the same place, but one is an auction item, maybe it'll be a little cheaper, maybe not. |
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Bronze Member Username: Dolfan058Post Number: 12 Registered: Jul-05 | pyramid's low end audio all around. The only thing I'd probably ever buy off them is their AC/DC power supply converters. I got the amp incredibly cheap and it's far more powerful than the amp on a receiver, which is why I'd prefer to keep it if I could. I found the denon on etronics.com for $177. I love etronics and have bought tons of stuff there, very reliable site. i like that harmon kardon though and since it's off the site, their warranty's should be good. It's not like I'll be keeping this receiver for the rest of my life either so as long as it lasts me a few years, that'll be perfect. Thanks for the link. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 240 Registered: May-05 | No problem. Let us know if you need more help |
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