Best floorstanders for a $1000 and under
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 249 Registered: Jun-05 | I figured this would be a good topic since this sector of the speaker market has improved so much over the last 5 years.The good news is we have a show down coming this comming week our good friend Tim8ter's Ling verse the Ascends one the best reviewed speakers of all time.Rumor has it that Ascend is coming out with a floorstander,and Tim8ter has two floorstanders coming and with all the usual compition out there and the emergence of Chinese companies like SDAT and many many other contenders.The consumer has waited a long time to get their moneies worth in this pricerange of speakers,well the wait is all comming to an end,so lets get started this could be real interesting and good thread everyones welcome lets keep the bullsh1t to a minimum we have been desroying our threads and we have had some good ones,So lets talk speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1080 Registered: Feb-05 | Bohlender Graebener Radia Z, PSB Image T55 would top my list. If you can deal the compromises necessary to own them the Magnepan MMG sounds good. I personally had to return to dynamic loudspeakers as the compromises were to great with the planar designs. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 566 Registered: Mar-05 | having listened to the bohlenders many times and settling on the totems because there was no comparison, I say Totem Rainmakers. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1081 Registered: Feb-05 | I would add however that at that price range I would probably not buy floorstanders. You pay for the extra cabinet which at that price isn't very good anyway. Since most folks will add a sub anyway why not buy good a bookshelf speaker. More bang for your buck. Just one example Paradigm Monitor 7 vs Studio 20...no contest...after stands same price. It's your money. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1082 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks Joseph you helped make my point. I too would rather have Josephs Totems than either of the floorsatnders I listed. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 250 Registered: Jun-05 | Well,Art 5 years ago I would have said that was true ,but thats just not case now not saying that the Floorstanders are better than the bookshelfs at this price,No Istill think the bookshelfs are better in most cases,but the gap has narrowed and it is narrowing everyday the floorstanders at this price level have become the most sought after speakers at this if they are built right.In another couple of year with the new cabinet technologies the floorstanders will the surpass the bookshelfs. |
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New member Username: RsxmanPost Number: 4 Registered: Jul-05 | I love the AS-F1'S and AS-F2'S by Athena. Klipsch reference sounds ok if you match it up with a warm receiver since they use titanium tweeters it can get fairly bright. |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 56 Registered: Jun-05 | Once more I'll cast my vote for Energy. The C-5s, at a list price of $750 are great. At a street price of ~$600, they're a steal. And they've done such a great job of bracing the cabinets - yes, it's still MDF, but it's a SOLID speaker, very well-built. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1083 Registered: Feb-05 | Sorry TW I disagree. All speakers are improving in value as of late meaning the gap is just as big as ever. There are many good values in floorstanders under 1k but I have no Idea why anyone would want them compared to similarly priced bookshelfs. The exception to that would be if you have to run them full range with no sub. What new cabinet technologies? There are some, but not being used at this price range that I am aware of. |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 57 Registered: Jun-05 | I personally prefer listening to redbook CDs in 2-channel as opposed to 2.1. A good pair of full-range floorstanders can do that much better than most bookshelves, especially in this price range. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 254 Registered: Jun-05 | And just 5 years ago 1k speakers didnt have the trickle down technology of drivers as they do now.And some of the cabinet technology is being used in 1k speakers no not all of them and that goes for the bookshelfs to. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1084 Registered: Feb-05 | Ziggy I hope you don't really believe that there are full range speakers in that price range. I would agree with you that the best sounding speakers in the world are full range floorstanders. But not at this price point. At one time I would have agreed about listening in 2 channel as opposed to with a sub. Most subs do far more harm than good. There are however a handful of very good musical subs that are the exception. Vandersteen, REL, Era, Thiel, and Martin Logan. These subs were built with a music first ethic and it shows. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1085 Registered: Feb-05 | Oh TW, agreed about the trickle down technology it has made quite an impact in the last several years. |
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Bronze Member Username: Cousin_itPost Number: 21 Registered: May-05 | The best $1000 floorstander is a monitor - except for the Ohm MicroWalsh Talls. The ONLY sub $1K floorstander that can do what a hi-end monitor can do, with the added advantages of a floorstander! |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 58 Registered: Jun-05 | Art... maybe the floorstanders in this price range are not truly full-range, but many come close these days. Those subs you mention are excellent solutions to the problem, but remember that we're looking in the sub-$1000 range here, and none of those subs really qualify (I think the small MartinLogan might be just under $1k), but that doesn't even factor in the cost of the bookshelves. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1087 Registered: Feb-05 | True but other than a sub there is no solution for any of the under 1k speakers. I'll take the better drivers on the bookshelfs over the additional cabinet on the floorstanders anyday. Just my preference. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 256 Registered: Jun-05 | Art,bookshelfs vs.Floorstanders this not what this thread is about,but this is very interresting anyway.So if you guys want to continue like this thats fine,but you know someone will come on and say that we are off topic,but to me thats ok.Well I guess I should make my choice ,Well Cousin you know I feel like you,but you left out one thing the Ohm Walsh Micros are better than any 1k bookshelf. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1088 Registered: Feb-05 | TW, I can read I know what this thread is about. I answered first on it. I felt that my position needed clarification. When Joseph posted about his Totem's it was a good opportunity to follow up. As we are all entitled to our opinions I believe that yours relative the Ohm speakers is exactly that your opinion. I would rather have Joseph's Totem's than the Ohm's. Both are very good speakers but which is better is in the ears of the beholder. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 257 Registered: Jun-05 | My second choice of course are the SDAT SB639 Dand Art it trully is full range and Yeah the Ohm Walsh Micros will even dust off anything up to $2k the only competition comes from 2 other floorstanders,Magnapan MMG 1.6,and the Totem Arros.No bookshelf at that price can compete with those three. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 258 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah,Art thats true,but the Rainmakers over the Ohms not even close.I have lots of experience with the Rainmakers and I do like them agreat deal,but at that price and $250 cheaper the Epos M5 will blow them away,but back to the floorstanders,after the 2 I named subjective ocourse the Wharfedale Diamond 9.6&9.5 Magnapan MMG,Vandersteen 1c,Bohlender Graebener Radia Z,NHT ST 4 |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1089 Registered: Feb-05 | Tawaun, I have done my best to not listen to others opinions of you and interact positively. But you don't state your opinions as what they are your opinions, instead you state them as facts. You need a reality check. Don't worry I won't stick around this thread and argue with you, it's not worth it. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 259 Registered: Jun-05 | First off the thread does not have anything to do with bookshelfs,2nd I dont give a Damn what you think of me.If you would have stayed on the topic like I stated at the very begining of the thread like it states instead of you trying to discredit floorstanders making it another bookshelf thread. |
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Bronze Member Username: Cousin_itPost Number: 22 Registered: May-05 | I'll try to be diplomatic, although I'm with Tawaun, and I know that the Ohms WILL dust anything in their price range and twice that! Totems, Paradigm... all perform pretty well, I think it gets down to what people are sensitive to. I was talking to Richard Vandersteen at the show in NYC a couple months ago, and he said "you're probably sensitive to how drivers integrate". I guess that's my thing. Since having the Ohms, it takes a pretty darned expensive speaker to give my the mid-range smoothness that I'm into. I don't know if it comes from growing up with my dad's tube gear, or what, but I really go for natural, smooth,resolved mid-range (that's where most of the music is anyway). Other brands are cool, but for me many of them sound like wow-factor-speakers. The Ohms just get the music right. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1094 Registered: Feb-05 | So what you are saying is that it's really in the ears of the beholder. I agree, in fact I said that. I listen to Vandersteens and Magnepans every week and like them very much. In fact I sold my Magnepans to go back to dynamic loudspeakers. Every speaker design makes compromises. I believe that it comes down to several questions. *What music do you listen to. *What sounds right to you. *What is your reference...do you compare your home experience to live music. *What are you sensitive to...you said that in your post. I do not like an overly bright high end. I prefer the sound of tubes but don't want to be bothered with listening for tube degradation instead of music. I opted for a good used power amp with just the right balance. *What can you afford. IMO this element more than any other determines how many compromises you will have to tolerate. *What goes well with your other gear. Synergy! I'm sure there are many other questions but those are the ones that come to mind immediately. I like all of the speaker brands that we have mentioned so far in this thread. They all work well in the appropriate application. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 261 Registered: Jun-05 | Well,Cousin it kind looked like Art wanted to argue with me,its crystal clear what the thread is about.One thing I have learned on here is some people on here dont like people with strong opinions and views,they want to follow 2 or three people on here that they look up to,hey ive got a dad so there is no room for anymore of those in my life,anyway we are gonna talk $1k speakers,Cousin I know 1st hand the Ohm sound and I know 2 some people on here what i am about to say might sound snobish,You havent heard soundstaging and midrange detail combined in one until you have heard a pair of Ohms I grew up listening to them,back in 1982 when the Walsh 2s came out they costed $700 a pair and they beat up 10k to 15k speakers on the regular basis.But $1k floorstander class has some great contenders. |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 644 Registered: May-05 | Hallo there Tawaun. Don't like positive talk, yeah well what if we all say we use JBL and Dolby CP-500 and THX 3417 X-over monitors, then there will be no argument, well maybe? |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 262 Registered: Jun-05 | Art I do agree with you on lots of things and it is in the ear of the beholder,so if you wanna include bookshelfs fine.But they should be able to play down to 45 hertz to be included,which the Raimaker does do.So what are some the bookshelfs in this pricerange that can play that kind of bass? |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 645 Registered: May-05 | Hallo there Tawaun. I nominate you to advertise to sale loudspeakers, and to make everyone aware of three-screen matching and frequency response 30Hz to 20HKz and high sensitivity... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1095 Registered: Feb-05 | Tawaun I don't mind folk with strong opinions at all. I have been yackin' with Paul and Eddie for quite awhile. Both of those fella's have strong opinions. Paul more often just to have fun with us than anything. My speakers reach below 45hz. Studio 40's and 20's. I use an Era sub crossed over at 40hz. Sounds tight as he11. I don't try to dictate how anyone on this forum interacts with others. I know that for me I enjoy talkin' with folk who know that we all have valid points and that we all have something to share. I know that you have something to give Tawaun. I just wish it were packaged a little more humbly. Don't take that as an affront because it was not meant that way, it's just how I feel. Rock on! |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 264 Registered: Jun-05 | Andy,what do you mean man speak engish |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 265 Registered: Jun-05 | Cool ,Art. |
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Somed00d Unregistered guest | I agree that subs do more harm than good for music. This is one of the reasons I can't stand speakers that dont at least give SOME bass. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1607 Registered: Jan-05 | I agree..... Petite little halfpints dont cut the cheese. Well that is unless you're wine tasting while listening to chamber music. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 951 Registered: Feb-04 | I agree that subs do more harm than good for music. Who are you agreeing with? |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 267 Registered: Jun-05 | Somed00d I listen to wharfedale Diamond 8.1 all the time without the sub and I have one.I guess I just feel that it takes away from the performance.Most subs at this price range while being good for movies are slow and sluggish with music they just cant keep up with those small drivers.Its different with subs with floorstanders you only need just a touch with them.Then again its just over kill for music unless you live in a aircraft hangar. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1202 Registered: Mar-05 | > Petite little halfpints dont cut the cheese. Why thank you Paul: I never thought small speakers had a habit of fa rting, either! ; ) |
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New member Username: Boris_vaslovPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-05 | I like this, there is a lot of discussions going on hear, yes I like it, this art and Paul, there in total agreement, do they have a good sopuning system, you must please forgive me as i don't argree with them at all. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1611 Registered: Jan-05 | It's true Eddie...... I've never listened to a pair of halfpints that didnt stink. |
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New member Username: Boris_vaslovPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-05 | You mentioned JBL and THX X-over something called 3417, is it good sopuning system is it not, I also use JBL they are brilliant sopuning, and the sub bass is very powerful with 1200Kw, hitting you in the chest like it does in cinema. |
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Bronze Member Username: Cousin_itPost Number: 23 Registered: May-05 | Tawaun, I also don't want to sound snobbish or fanatical, for that matter - but the Ohms are that good!! Anyway, I know enough to know that there isn't one model to satisfy everyone, but I DO know that there are a lot of listeners who would dig the Ohms - for now, we'll just enjoy them... |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 269 Registered: Jun-05 | Its great isnt it,well cousin it I only got about a week and a half left and they will be here. Cant wait! |
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New member Username: Boris_vaslovPost Number: 4 Registered: Jul-05 | No, no JBL are better than ohms, the sopund pressures are big! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1207 Registered: Mar-05 | Paul, well in that case you should've written, "Petite little halfpints DO cut the cheese." LOL |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 270 Registered: Jun-05 | I need bass,I will not except bad bass,some bookshelfs can play low,but if you want that visceral feeling you need floorstanders.Even small bookshelfs with a sub cant supply that feeling. |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 646 Registered: May-05 | Who you calling a halfpint,what's going on hear tonight, it's all at each others necks again, your all behaving like a pack a wild dogs again.  |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 271 Registered: Jun-05 | Actually,its pretty tamed tonight Andy,its just if you want real bass you need a floorstander to get it. |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 647 Registered: May-05 | Tame, well that's more like it. Nonsense utter total Nonsense, you can pick up JBL PA 4675-A that will blow theses ohms and even my JBL control 5 totally out of the water. Just Balanced Lovely And they will cost you far less, and designing the room layout so these towering JBL 4675-A whodunit be seen, by anyone least of all the owner.   Jaws Bites Low |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1209 Registered: Mar-05 | Tawaun, yeah but in THIS price range if you get a floorstander that has truly good bass you'll probably have to accept some major sacrifices in the mids and highs, at least this is what I found when I was out shopping speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 648 Registered: May-05 | Edster922 Hell these are all you need, hook line and sink her. There far easy to control the sound with an active x-over frequency network system and EQ in line and the B-chain is awesome.   |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 272 Registered: Jun-05 | Edster what I have found mostly is with the Floorstanders at this if they do everything correctly,they are usually bland and boring,but that could apply to bookshelfs to but more than likely floorstanders.The SDATs are great Idont know why people dont believe me they actually have none of these short comings. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 273 Registered: Jun-05 | And for the price its flat out robery! and as for the Ohms they are just musical freaks they have the perfect drive unit well as close to perfection that anyone has designed yet just one driver does it all. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 954 Registered: Feb-04 | Andy, The JBL web site lists these under "obsolete". I assume you mean to say that you can buy them for $1000 a pair used, right? They must need a pretty big room, right? How far away should you be from them and how far apart should they be? I'm imagining a room also suited for Klipschorns, perhaps 18 to 27 feet apart on a long wall? Have you heard these in a home setting rather than a very large cinema? How do they image? What sort of matching center or surround could you use with them? |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 567 Registered: Mar-05 | Why is it that once a good disagreement is started, it all of a sudden becomes "oh well my d!ck is bigger than yours" and "my Cerwin Vegas are the be all end all". Just because a subwoofer hits hard or floorstanders have lower more powerful bass extension does not necessarily mean more accurate reproduction of content. I agree for movies with big explosions that a good sub gives greater involvement with the soundtrack. I do not agree that with music, unless your reference music is E-40, that you need exorbitant bass. This however could be personal peference but if you all want to get technical, then look at this way. Ideally we would have a full range speaker with no crossover capable of going from 20hz to 20,000hz with equal output at all levels, then it would have to be played on such a clean source and so on ... you guys know the rest. Unfortunately there are not many if any systems this pure out there so we keep it as simple as possible. If you start splitting the source from bookshelf speakers to subwoofers we come into timing issues and phase problems. As minute as we make be able to make these defects, they still are defects and take away from the simplicity of "natural" sound. Therefore by having speakers with the least amount of crossover and greatest range, we keep it simple and pure. Those Totems have had me checking for the subwoofer "on" light a time or two since I have had them. I am not talking huge bass response, but more than enough to hear all notes that were meant to be heard. Another impressive feature of those Rainmakers is their 2nd order crossover, which has 12db per octave instead of the usual 24, giving a beautiful marriage of tweeter and woofer. Don't get me wrong , I think thier are some great floorstanders out there, but none that come close to the totems for under a grand. Try some jm lab Utopias if you want floorstanders, lol just be ready to fork over a Cadillac. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 957 Registered: Feb-04 | Joseph, I don't really see the dick contest apart from Paul being, well, Paul (he likes to snicker at petite bookshelf speakers). Adam seems to genuinely like the Pro JBL gear and I was interested to know more about them. Klipsch also makes similar pro speakers. These look like double Cornwalls and someone on the Klipsch forum is actually building something that looks quite like it. You said: Just because a subwoofer hits hard or floorstanders have lower more powerful bass extension does not necessarily mean more accurate reproduction of content. Absolutely. But isn't reproduction of low bass still a necessity for completely accurate reproduction? I think that lack of low bass (e.g. bookshelf) is usually better than bad bass (e.g. muddy floorstander). This may be what you were saying about the Totems; maybe not. But if one really want accurate sound, one needs to include the low bass accurately (IMHO). |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 275 Registered: Jun-05 | Well thats your opinion the Ohm Walsh Micros are a floorstander and they will mop the floor with the Rainmakers in every single catagory. You can spend $200 more and get the Arros they mop the floor with the Rainmakers,see I Know the Rainmakers I had them for 2 months I Know all of their strengths and weeknesses you should read their measurements in the November issue of Stereophile.They use the old Rogers trick in the midbass,yeah that boosted hump to make it like they really have some low end and that midrange aint all that great either.And its plenty of real floorstanders out there that arent trying to be floorstanders that really are foorstanders. Bookshelfs should not try to be floorstanders thats all the Rainmakers are trying to be. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1211 Registered: Mar-05 | Tawaun, so where can I hear a pair of these SDATs? I don't recall ever seeing them advertised at any of the big chains. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 277 Registered: Jun-05 | The Rainmakers are no where near the best in thier own bookshelf class here are a few that are better:B&W 602s3,JM Cobalt 806,Epos M5&m12.2,Dynaudio Audience 52,Do you want me to keep going Na I wont but 2 of them on that list are a lot cheaper. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 568 Registered: Mar-05 | here we go again, why TW do you feel the need to aggressively respond to comments? Also I feel that most of your comments on speakers seem to be direct quotes from speaker reviews. You also seem to be quite redundant like this: Tawaun A.Williams Silver Member Username: T_bomb25 Dayton , Ohio United States Post Number: 158 Registered: Jun-05 Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2005 - 10:38 pm: Hey Joseph the Rainmakers they are quite good with percussion music?All speakers have compromises I love this speakers strengths well balanced very exciting they are a riot. and now you say:.They use the old Rogers trick in the midbass,yeah that boosted hump to make it like they really have some low end and that midrange aint all that great either. so really man , stop bringing your attitude to all of your posts. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1620 Registered: Jan-05 | Joe, The point that certain owners of petite 'girlyman-speakers' keep insisting is that big speakers cannot do those things. You have the typical eddie response....."Well, it may be big, but only at the expense of mids/highs"...etc, etc, etc. That's not the case........Heck, I have dual 6.5" midranges in each speaker specifically designed to handle "ONLY MIDS", and the bass all goes to the 15" drivers. With 'girlyman' speakers, they have to share responsibilities because the tiny midgranges serve double duty as both midrange and the bottom end. Geez, talk about 'muddying' the sound.....why would you want a little dainty midranges performing double duty??? Maybe the reality is that THEY do neither well?? |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 278 Registered: Jun-05 | Stop trying to tell me what I can do and what I cant do,I can express my opinion anyway I want to stop being so sensitive.This what Edtser was talking about,andIM NOT EXPLAINING MYSELF AGAIN.I feel like Im telling my daughter to clean her room,if you cant take criticsim about your little speakers dont post.You act like I said they suck,just because complimented them doesent mean I dont think they have flaws.STOP CRYING! |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 649 Registered: May-05 | Peter Galbraith You are correct they are indeed obsolete, but are sill in use in professional cinemas, and if you look around, you will find them going cheaply and mind you 3x will be needed for the fronts. As for room size, well if you like home theatre, and are as mad as me, then I will make them fit into the room, hell I'm all ready using the JBL 4645 THX professional cinema sub bass and that is around the size of the JBL 4675-A enclosure, so a fair size small 20x feet wide by 30x feet length 14x feet high, should do it but they are so choice. When was the last time, any of you went to the cinema, "War of the Worlds" sounds fantastic in six-track Dolby digital, sound very realistic they are very robust and will give years of performance... The images are not to totally to scale, but are close, this is the package you will need and there many sites where you can buy EX-cinema PA.     |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1624 Registered: Jan-05 | Actually, I saw the latest star wars in theaters this spring, and thought it sounded terrible. It was all screaming highs and mids, and no bottom end whatsoever. After that awful experience, I'm in no rush to go "OUT" to the movies anytime soon. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 279 Registered: Jun-05 | Edster,check www.overstock.com they have all of the models the one I have are the:SB639 D the owner Kenny li said they were the best ones,if they were not as good as he said they were,I would have sent them back.You talk to me enough to Know I am very serious when it comes to speakers,so you should know I would'nt lead you wrong.Check it out and let me know what you think,I think you will be impressed with what you see.You get a bonous it seems that you have the right room for them they are monsters. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1218 Registered: Mar-05 | > That's not the case........Heck, I have dual 6.5" midranges in each speaker specifically designed to handle "ONLY MIDS", and the bass all goes to the 15" drivers. With 'girlyman' speakers, they have to share responsibilities because the tiny midgranges serve double duty as both midrange and the bottom end. Have you never heard of SUBWOOFERS? See, that's why AV receivers have a "small" vs. "large" setting, so you can choose to send all the frequencies to your speakers or just the mids and highs while letting the sub fill in the bottom end. Heck even your Yammie has that feature...did you know that Paul? It really really does, why just read the manual! LOL Paul, you are entertaining as always but do you really have to flaunt your embarassing ignorance so much? Simple question: if your Cerwin Vegas' precious 15" woofers were so great, why did the arrival of your behemoth SVS sub cause you to cream in your pants for days and weeks thereafter? |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 650 Registered: May-05 | Paul Now that depends on which donkey sound engineer did the EQ, it sound fine in sub standard Dolby SR-D, yeah I can name a whole lot films that sound Topy, like Batman Begins, the "Odeon" cinema where I heard this was awful the old Altec A4 have really had there day, and besides have low bass distortion with the LFE been sent to them, did little difference, as there is no sub bass in the cinema, to extend it lower. As for "Star Wars" episode 3 it sounded quite on the first viewing at the ABC cinema, due to the projectionist that was on and the fader must have been at around 5, on the second viewing I spoke to the chief and he send that screen #1 was due for an EQ within the next few weeks, this was last month now, in time for "War of the Worlds" as for "Star Wars" the fader must have been set too 7 and wow feel those lightsabers. The sound preceding the "tripods" opening was very realistic lots of natural low end with mid and highs giving directional cues to the sounds glass shattering and breaks crumpling the ground cracking under your feet, and all this hitting you in the chest and punching you in the stomach. Like I said, it depends on who EQ it, and how many THX sound system theatres do you have near you.   |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1219 Registered: Mar-05 | Tawaun, http://www.sdatgroup.com/hifispeaker/hifispeaker.htm I have to say, they don't LOOK bad at all, in fact they remind me of the B&W Nautilus a little with the top mounted tweeter. And for $253/pair shipped that would indeed be a he11 of a catch if they were anywhere as good as the Ascends. A couple of things raised my eyebrows though: 1. PAPER cone woofers? 2. ONE year warranty? Most speakers have at least 3-5 year warranties. Even my lowly Polk R20s. 3. "Crossover: Custom Digital Circuitry" --- WTF??? 4. "Product Weight: 45 LBS" BUT "Shipping Weight: 70 LBS x 2" --- huh? 5. The SDAT site lists the tiny SB-E5 bookshelf as going down to 20Hz...sorry, that SEVERELY damages their credibility at least for me. Let's just say I'd feel a WHOLE lot better if I could hear these first. So are they online-ONLY speakers? That doesn't seem to make any sense, if they are so cheap yet good and made by such a massive company you'd think that they could easily get distribution by the big-box chains...? |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 651 Registered: May-05 | I can't really say which ones I like these ones I guess.   Bruce.... |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1222 Registered: Mar-05 | Tawaun, These SDATs remind me of the Fluance floorstanders for some reason, probably size, price and the sidefiring passive sub: http://www.fluance.com/fluanhigthre.html Have you ever heard the Fluance speakers, Tawaun? I briefly considered them after hearing some buzz about them on some audio forums but decided that it was too good to be true. What I like about the Fluance website (and the Ascend site) is the very detailed info it provides on the speakers, in contrast to the SDAT site. BTW how did you decide to buy the SDATs---just by word of mouth or did you know someone who had them and had a chance to hear them first? Also are there any professional reviews of the SDATs? How long have they been on the US market? I couldn't even find any consumer reviews on audioreview.com for this model. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 280 Registered: Jun-05 | Joe calm yourself,you can love a speaker even if it has which nearly everyone them at this price does unfortunetly $1k pool is what mosy people have to choose from.Now look Im gonna tell a little Totem story.One of my good friends used to own a Audio store that I used to work for,Well we carried: Totem,Meadowlark,Canton speakers now for electronics:Musical Fidelity,Unison,Jeff Rowland,McCormick,Nad,andQuickSilver,One day I decided to take home the:Forest,Hawk,Model 1,Rainmaker and the Swift,note I already owned the Arros for about a month with about 250 hrs on them all of the other speakers had more than that except the Rainmaker that was the first set we had so I took them home to break them in.I had the Polk LSi 15s at home also plus the Wharfedale Diamond 8.1,Yeah I have a audio store at home to.So now Im gonna give you the rundown in this whole situation.all the testing was done with the Musical Fidelity 3.2 pre/pro,Unison Unico{itergratedamp and cd player}and last but not least my trusty Nad 320bee and 541i.First up the Model 1 huge bass for a bookshelf,but I didnt hear the increadable soundstage that everyone raved about they didnt do well at all overrated speaker terrible with brass,so that was ahuge dissapointment:next up the Swift it dne well with all setups nice speaker for the money,Huge soundstage and very very deep and so sweet and mellow,all Meadowlark trademarks nice company to bad they went up so much,next up the Hawk ,Totem really hit the mark with these.They do everything very well and they are very partner friendly so so warm they will put you to sleep,but the only bad which is actually a good thing is they didnt show the differences with the gear which is bad for someone wanting to test out electronics,but they can put you right into high sound with cheap cheap equipment,very very deep bass for a speaker that size.Next up the mighty Forrest,now I couldnt figure this speaker out,they didnt do well with anything they done certain great things each setup.Great deep bass on the Nads,great midrange weight on the and relaxing top end on the Unison,Staggering detail and soundstaging on the Musical Fidelitys,but they could never pull it all together and that $3200 pricetag didnt look good at all.Real Real Frustrating!They ended up being the least favorite to listen to,just a shame I love Vinces designing techniques but I still cant figure them out to this day,are they worth the money I dont think so,but lots of people think so,well Iwill leave it at that.Next up the Rainmakers right off the top they will wow you the way they play drums and thier Dynamics,they really sounded similar to the Hawks with a little less warmth and speed and a more foward soundstage.They played real good with the Nad gear,but they really shined with the Unison gear it added the warmth that the Hawk had naturally.But When they were on MF gear it exposed the hardness in the treble,and the lower bass was down in level compared to the midbass and upperbass,the upper midrange was a tad pinched,they still had good speed in the bass thats what maskedthe hump in the midbass so good it took us 2 weeks to finnally nail it down.Not bad when you are considering the price in the company of speakers it was in.It was a little hollowness in the midrange you could hear it bass guitars and the left hand on the baby grand piano.Next up the Arro,First off the Arro is one of the most fussy speakers I know of,but that is one of its great strenths reveals everything in the electric chain,we heard a constant hum at the shop everytime we played them it was the socket in the wall.No other speaker in there could we here that on not the Blue Herren 2 $13k the Nighthawk $7k the Wind $8 and not even the mighty Shamen $14k,now that is simply amazing and when you get them partnered with the right gear they sound ecen more amazing,They clearly showed all the strengths and weaknesses of all the gear and the other Speakers to Vince said he built them for a friend that he really admired before he even put them into production and he said that he didnt know they would be as good as they were,but he did make them to be very criticle and acurate.The only thing they wont play loud with deep bass at extreme levels in huge rooms.I could'nt play them very loud with the Nad gear it was to noisey and it showed everything the budget Nad wasnt good at in brutal fashions,the MF gear was silly detailed with jazz and vocal music but with R&B and rock it was clinical affair that would make you hate all your recordings.Wire made monumental differences with the Arros they were bright and forward with the Kimber 8tc still with lots of detail,but with the W.B.T. biwire cable everthing got better and dont think about not biwireing them you will lose everything,Final with the Unison gear match made in heaven,They produced one of the largest deepest widest soundstages and riches layered midranges,they spoke with increadible emotion ,you could feel the music it was increadible system I have ever had.All the auditioning was done three people at the same time and on seperate occassions they are magical.So see Joe im not trying to put the Rainmakers down they are what they are.Hope this clarified some things for you.I am not trying to make you not like me I am just a very expressive person and very passionate about audio and music and whatever I do in life. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 281 Registered: Jun-05 | Edster dont pay much attention to their site,we know the bookshelfs dont go down to 20 htz,Kenny li said he is gonna make the correct changes to the site.Yeah a friend of mind bought the 404s you've seen that thread on here.Well when heard them they sounded really natural and uncolored and Iasked him what were they and he explained it to me,and then I asked him how much he paid for them and when he said $80,I said you have got be kidding,so me being me I researched them and the company worldwide,so I got real interested in them at the prices I thought I might as well go for the best one.So SDAT and talked to kenny and he recomende these.They actually weigh about 58 pounds apiece and they are horizontal and vertically braced,very well built still vinyll but the nicest I have seen and real laqur on the front.that top tweater is a supertweater.Its much a known fact that paper drivers are the least colored transducer in box speakers thats all Pro Ac uses,here are some more prominate speaker companies that use paper drivers Sonous Faber,Vienna Accoustics,Aerial,Usher,Tannoy,Dali,Von Schweikert,Avalon,Kharma,Ruark,Canadas best speaker company Gershman and Canadas other best speaker company Coincident Technology.Thats some pretty heavy hitters,so dont let the paper scare you.Yah they eill destroy the Fluances the 404s are better than thier best model.Yes they look like a geat deal and they are even more amazing to listen to,so if you have anymore Questions just get back with me. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 282 Registered: Jun-05 | Im a little tired so excuse my typing im trying to improve thanks! |
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Somed00d Unregistered guest | There is nothing wrong with using paper woofers, or foam surrounds . Audio Note is also another well regarded speaker maker that uses paper woofers, as well as foam surrounds, and tweeters with no ferro fluid. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 959 Registered: Feb-04 | Andy wrote: As for room size, well if you like home theatre, and are as mad as me, then I will make them fit into the room, hell I'm all ready using the JBL 4645 THX professional cinema sub bass and that is around the size of the JBL 4675-A enclosure, so a fair size small 20x feet wide by 30x feet length 14x feet high, should do it but they are so choice. Andy, if you ever get them you should try them close to the 30' wall corners with your TV/screen in the middle (i.e. using the other axis of the room). They might soundstage quite a bit better that way! |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 569 Registered: Mar-05 | Tawaun, I have no problem with you. I respect the amount of time your ears have had with different gear and like to hear your opinion, but it just seemed to me like you praised the Totem and then all of a sudden they are not that great "mop the floor for less". I have no problem not owning the best . My belief is that music is more pleasing to me (quality music, I still blast some floyd and led) at balanced levels. Now that to me is less bass than most would like. I guess it's like Peter said, I would rather have less lower end extension than have muddy lows. For $1000 I do not know of many floor standers that could produce nice lows AND faithful midrange. That was my point with saying I would rather have a quality pair of book's than a less quality pair of floorstander, considering floorstanders are inherently more expensive. You know what TW, I was going to get the Arro's, but I knew that my wife would dig the smaller rainmakers. Plus they saved me a few bucks. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 570 Registered: Mar-05 | I meant I have no problem NOT owning the best** |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 574 Registered: Mar-05 | by the way I was lucky enough to see Paul's setup the other day, check it out: |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 576 Registered: Mar-05 | sorry about the picture but I could not resist. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1108 Registered: Feb-05 | LOL! If he weren't on vacation I'm sure he would laugh with us! |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 283 Registered: Jun-05 | See, Joe maybe it was good that you did get the Rainmakers,they are entertaining,the Arros take lots of effort to set up correctlly.It just depends on if you are intrested in fiddleing around.My dad loves the Rainmakers regardless of their slight weaknesses,but Totem done a great job emphasising their strengths.Sorry Joe if you thought I was downing them.I guess I have become to much of analytical listener these days. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 284 Registered: Jun-05 | Joe is that really Pauls set up,well its huge,Ah man I love big CVs! |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 285 Registered: Jun-05 | Hey paper drivers as far as box speakers go,lots of audiophiles feel they are the most uncolored drvers Somed00d. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 286 Registered: Jun-05 | Joe, where did you get that,man thats Hillarious!!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: IknownuttinOttawaCanada Post Number: 18 Registered: Jul-05 | Man go away for a couple of days and this places goes nuts!;o) As much as I like the RainMakers (I think they are great value for the price ie much better than most at $1000). That said I do prefer the Arro but as TW mentioned they are harder to position and I much prefer the Sttaf (which now retails closer to $1,500) and just as hard to place. The Model 1 which is a bookshelf is outstanding (better then the Sttaf) but at $2,000 a lot more money. I got the Ohms because they were less money then the Sttaf, more flexible in placement yet almost as good in sound (don't get me going on the finish tho'). Yet as Art et al pointed out several times, it's what sounds good to you. I ended up carting the Ohms, amp and CD player over to the audio shop, listened and compared over 2 days the various speakers, concentrating on the Arro/Sttaf/Ohm after the initial thinning of the herd ;o). We all hear differently, more sensitive to certain frequencies then others etc. It only make sense that we have different tastes in speakers. Vive la différence! |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 680 Registered: May-05 | What the f·ck is that joseph coulson Nah, that's not Paul's set-up I've seen the pictures of his home cinema, this is a gag, though I do like it, is it yours, and if so. Looks like the neighbours love you man, hehehehe. What is the sensitivity of the loudspeakers CW. |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 681 Registered: May-05 | Hay you guys don't be virgin's images yes, as words and images are 100% words only 50% if you all get my meaning.... |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 682 Registered: May-05 | I would guess that the total SPL would be somewhere around +150dbC weighting now that is mad...  |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 579 Registered: Mar-05 | Andy , I am sorry for posting a picture. Please do not take it as free reign to post pictures all over this thread and ruin it. It is my fault for opening the door. |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 683 Registered: May-05 | joseph coulson Don't be silly post pictures, post pictures.... Get the picture.... |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 308 Registered: Jun-05 | Edster,get back with me about the sb639ds and I will give you run down on them they are really starting to sound even better.they breaking in more and more and the combination of them with the Musical Fidelity gear is stagering,they will sound good with the Nad gear, but you will really want to get 542 to make them sound better.They are very revealing without being brutal,but they let you know loud and clear if something up stream isnt right. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 311 Registered: Jun-05 | Edster,get back with me about the sb639ds and I will give you run down on them they are really starting to sound even better.they breaking in more and more and the combination of them with the Musical Fidelity gear is stagering,they will sound good with the Nad gear, but you will really want to get 542 to make them sound better.They are very revealing without being brutal,but they let you know loud and clear if something up stream isnt right. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1236 Registered: Mar-05 | I'm certainly curious, Tawaun but am simply not in the market for a speaker. Would love to go somewhere and listen to them, though. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 319 Registered: Jun-05 | You just have to check around you might be able to find some to listen to. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 331 Registered: Jun-05 | I wasnt in the market for a speaker either but once I saw the price I just had to.I Just bought the M-Ss in March,I just cant help it I love to buy speakers,the Ohm Walsh Micro Talls will be here in a about a week. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1254 Registered: Mar-05 | Geez, my wife would kill me if I had your buying habits! LOL |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 334 Registered: Jun-05 | I Know my wife wants to kill me,but she knoes im like a typical alcholic that im a speaker holic,with all the money I have spent in the last three years I could've bought the Ariel 20ts by now.Wish I would have,oh well I'll get there someday. |
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New member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-05 | Tawaun, how does these SDAT SB-E639D speakers compare to your Mordaunt short Avant 908's now? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1177 Registered: Feb-05 | OK Eddie, you really are misbehavin'. On one thread you've taken over for Andy and on this one it's Tawaun. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1283 Registered: Mar-05 | ahem!!! NOTE: my imposter is listed as Bronze Member with a different Username and also different Post number and Registered date. clever little bugger, whoever he/she/it is... |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 641 Registered: Mar-05 | That my friends is the one arm bandit known as Alfonso. |
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Anonymous | 77 years of experience.. That makes you how old?? |
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New member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-05 | I just ordered some SDAT SB-E639D speakers from overstock.com for $253.00.... |
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New member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 3 Registered: Jul-05 | When I get these speakers I will make them sound even better with my "Teflon Tape Tweak".... |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 345 Registered: Jun-05 | Richard,the SDAT sb639d is a more tonally faithful speaker than the M-S 908s and they go down trully to the low 20htz range so they are infact a true full range speaker at the price of peanuts! |
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New member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 4 Registered: Jul-05 | That sounds great because the Mordaunt Short ms-908's have been compared to some really good speakers!....I was looking at the reviews on audioreview.com..... |
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Barnacle Unregistered guest | My kid brother has those SDATs and if you honestly believe they go down to 20Hz then you don't know what 20Hz sounds like. I'd guess them to be around 40 Hz at best. Pretty slow muddy 40Hz too. Best thing about them is their price thats for sure. |
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New member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 5 Registered: Jul-05 | Not too many people know about these SDAT speakers here yet, if these SB-E639D speakers are better then the Mordaunt Short MS-908'S then that is AMAZING for only $253.00 $$$$$$$$$$$ It has to be one of the greatest buys in all of AUDIO! |
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Arthur Kyle Unregistered guest | I own a pair of SDAT's and they hands down beat my Paradigm Studio 40s. |
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New member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 6 Registered: Jul-05 | Paradigm Studio 40's are good speakers.....don't let that low low price fool you on those SDAT speakers! These SDAT's are the REAL DEAL! |
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New member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 8 Registered: Jul-05 | JUST BECAUSE SPEAKERS COST MORE DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN BETTER SOUND!.......LONG LIVE SDAT SPEAKERS! |
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New member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 9 Registered: Jul-05 | No, its just great to see a speaker company put out a great product at a AMAZING PRICE! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1197 Registered: Feb-05 | B&W DM603 S3 just received a very good review in "Stereophile". I've heard them and I think they are a very good and versatile speakers. Obviously I prefer my Paradigm Studio 40v3's as they sell both where I bought my 40's. But hey back to the original discussion topic for this thread. The B&W's seem to be an excellent buy at under 1k. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 268 Registered: May-05 | As Art originally said - PSB Image t55. |
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Somed00d Unregistered guest | Stu, I'm curious if youve heard PSB's older image series ( 2b,T4,T5 etc.)? According to the stereophile review of the B25 PSB has made some pretty big changes in this line. Just wondering if this was correct? |
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New member Username: MiltonPost Number: 3 Registered: Jul-05 | In case some of you missed it: Just so ya know *Richard* Patrick is a major troll on several forums like HTT, HTF, and S&V. He has been either kicked off of or nearly banned from all of them for his non-sensical sales pitches for stuff like QuickSilver, teflon taping and caulking his entire speaker system, and the funniest of all...freezing (in a home freezer) EVERY cd and audio video piece of equipment he has..all this is claimed to make things sound AMAZING. Lastly, take note that he is around 14 years of age and lives with his parents..so he's claimed to me and others..personally I think he just a dillusional middle aged guy who has NO life and likes to stir up things on every A/V forum he can get onto. So don't take him too seriously..99.9% of what he says is BS. p.s. Oh and I'm sure you all will be ANXIOUS to hear that Richard claims he.....well read his PM message about it here: "Will it looks like I'm going to be in another magazine REVIEW! People will look up to me when the review comes out and I will post it on every forum out there.....How about that I'm going to be bigger than life." |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 271 Registered: May-05 | Somed00d - I have heard the older image series - towers and bookshelves. I haven't heard the new bookshelves though. This is all subjective (just like everything else audio) - the changes are significant, but not major. I know this is contradictory. By significant, I mean a definate improvement. Everything is better - highs, mids, lows, imaging, soundstage, etc. But it's not a night and day difference. The older image's were very good. I was going to buy the older ones from dmc-electronics.com, but my local dealer had the newer ones for cheaper (Image t55's for $550) because they were dropping the PSB line (a big mistake IMO, but I'm not a store owner). Highs are clear, mids are warm, and lows are tight and fast. The old ones had all of these traits, but the new ones improved upon them. The new line is significantly better side by side, but they kept their signature intact. To me their signature is well balanced and neutral; very little coloration. Different components may get different results. Mine are NAD C320BEE and NAD 523 CD Changer (soon to be upgraded to 521BEE or 542). Hope this answers your question. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 272 Registered: May-05 | Jsut to add to my previous post - The PSB t55's are worth every penny of the $899 retail. I wasn't looking at them as $550 speakers. The price I paid has to be the best audio deal I've ever come across. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1211 Registered: Feb-05 | Stu, I would still stick to the PSB T55's, I just wanted to place another alternative in the discussion. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Post Number: 276 Registered: May-05 | Art - I know what you mean. No one speaker is going to work for everyone. The others you mentioned aren't any better or worse, just different. I think people here seem to forget that sometimes. Glad to see things are getting more difficult for your alter-ego. You've gotta give him credit though, it was pretty smart. |
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Auntie Cyberspace Unregistered guest | Dumb question time- I'm 60 years old and have the following speakers purchased many moons ago. We're building a house with a speaker allowance. The builder's AV advisor recommends replacing our speakers (Ohm Model 1, KEF C75, and Wharfendales) with Klipsch RB-25, RC-25, and R-3650c, all of which he sells. Will my old ears notice the difference? I know my pocketbook will. I listen to XM-radio, DISH 500 DVR, have a variety of amps--Pioneer EliteM90 anc C90, and Sony STR DE 835. He recommends upgrading to Denon 3805, which we'll probably do because of its 7-1 and 2 zones. Any advice you wise Yodas can provide will be greatly appreciated. |
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