|
Unregistered guest | My T752, 8 months past the expired 2 year warranty, punked out on me. The options are take a $800 loss, fix it for $200 or move on. Currently, moving on with an outboard Parasound fiver amp that sounds great. The NAD QC mojo has caught up to me. I'm a big boy and can take it; the research done on NAD 3 years ago before the purchase certainly pointed towards this possibility. My impressions and sources on NAD: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/0510/172_print.html >>In May 1999 AudioNord sold NAD to Lenbrook, a firm in Pickering, Ont., for an initial $5 million, plus undisclosed future payouts.<< $5MM? People on Wall St. raise that kind of money on charm and good looks with a tin cup in ½ an hour. This is not exactly a hot commodity. This is a tiny company with a tiny market share. Just how substantial are their resources to back a product that lasts? $30MM in revenues? Companies have advertising budgets of $30 million on a single brand. That kind of money could be raised in 3 hours with the same tin cup . There's more: >>Its second and third generations, designed in Canada and manufactured in China in 2000 and 2002, caught up but had quality problems. Some could be fixed with a new chip or a software upgrade; others had to be replaced. "With NAD's two-channel stereos, I've never had a single unit come back. But with their A/V products, 30% get returned," grumbles one longtime NAD dealer.<< A dealer I eamiled warned me regarding NAD problems; this forum has archived dealers dropping them because of the problems. If your dealer staunchly denies issues and even reports that the issues have been fixed, prove it. That would be good information to know While checking out potential repairs for the T752, found this resource on the net. Sounds to me like an experienced, creditable operation for an array of audio repairs: http://www.stereorepair.net/NAD.htm >>Most NAD receivers, amplifiers, preamps and integrated amplifiers are well designed but have developed soldering defects over time due to rather thin circuit boards and poor quality soldering. Most NAD CD players are of poor mechanical quality and we generally do not advise repair on these units.<< Looking for that NAD CD/DVD player on ebay? Regarding a repair fix on the T752, below is my verbatim email correspondence with above repair center: >>From: James Wood <uptonow@charter.net> Date: Thursday, July 07, 2005 3:10 PM To: info@stereorepair.net <info@stereorepair.net> Subject: NAD T752 Receiver - Shuts Down - Please advise Sir, Saw your web page and am impressed; maybe you can help: My T752, 32 months old, shuts down at high volume with all 5 channels running. When unplugged and sitting for a day or so, can turn the unit back on and run 2 channels at low/medium volume; at high volume it shuts down again. The fan now kicks on after about 2 minutes and the unit runs hot; obviously would guess some kind of heat overload. Prior to the current shutdown situation, a rear channel would close down on occasion, but always turn back on. Well that's it. Can you help, fix it, cost? Please respond and Thanks, Jim Wood Wisconsin (I can pay you in beer) PS: Question - On a comparative basis, how would you rate the Quality Control/Quality Assurance on the build of NAD audio/video receivers versus the other brands? How good/bad is the NAD QC? Thanks.<< The audio repair shop's response- >>From: stereorepair@optonline.net <stereorepair@optonline.net> Date: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:26 PM To: James Wood <uptonow@charter.net> Subject: Re: NAD T752 Receiver - Shuts Down - Please advise This is usually caused by cracked solder connections at the output transistor/pc board junction. Cost of repair is 125.00, parts and labor. QC has always been an issue with NAD. Build quality has never been up to design (which is quite good). After a repair that includes a through resoldering these perform well.<< Well, that's good, add in $70 round trip freight and total = $200. Consider that with NAD's questionable QC history, some other breakdown is imminent and then what? Or, I could be a creep, fix-it and dump it on ebay as perfect operating condition. Now, I've got you thinking; are you really considering a second hand NAD product? Don't believe me. Call them, email them. Save this information for future reference because you might need it. There's also a ton of info on QC in the archives. So, what's my point? Just another shard of information on an audio purchase. As a word of learning if you are considering a purchase, take a look at all points of the product. If you are on a tight budget (we've all been there) and can't afford a loss, think twice about buying. Take a broad perspective and draw your own conclusions. |
|
Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 173 Registered: Apr-05 | Very interesting article Jaw. Manufacturing electronics, especially in this outsourced world, is a tough tough issue for all electronics companies. Where the management makes a decision to go to a company in China that skimps on perceived quality and cuts corners, they always run the risk of having the manufacturer "learn" on their dime. Sometimes they switch manufacturers and sometimes they stick with them and review the quality for the next round and hopfully see improvements. The company (NAD) will suffer greatly, but the difference in margins and keeping up with competition forces them into it. Unfortunately buyers like us get stuck with the "learning" product. I would continue to pressure NAD. Don't take no for an answer. If this is a quality issue, such as a cracked board, you should have them fix it regardless of the warranty. If you don't get a resolution from the people you are talking to move up the chain. If you still don't get results, write a letter and FedEX (don't mail) to the top 3 or 4 people in the company (it will cost you some money, but it will be worth it). Tell them that you will indicate this on all the A/V boards on the internet. They will pay attention. |
|
Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 43 Registered: Jun-05 | I was considering the NAD 773 myself and was put off by everything I had read online. But my previous experience with the NAD sound made me still consider it. When I went to my local NAD dealer, he didn't have one on display, so he took a brand new one out of the box. This was about 2 months ago - long after the problems were supposed to be fixed. The brand-new unit possessed an audible hiss with no input, whereas the Marantz SR8400 and Yamaha RX-V2500 were dead silent through the same speakers. That was the end of the "maybe I'll get a NAD AVR" experiment. I would have hated that thing from the minute I brought it home - and that's even IF it never started buzzing, popping or flat-out died. That kind of thing is tolerable on cheap gear, but not on $1500 AVRs. |
|
Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 345 Registered: Apr-04 | I have only owned 2 channel NAD's over the last 20 years and have NEVER had 1 issue at all! I don't believe in multi-channel music listening anyways and even though I own a huge T.V, I listen to rented DVD's this way and it sounds great even without surround sound. I recently asked my loyal dealer about these issues and he said that he has only had a couple of minor problems and rarely does he fix anything NAD even though he is an authorized dealer for the last 20 years or so. I have a friend that has had major problems with his Musical Fidelity equipment and is getting quite tired of it breaking. Did you buy your gear through an authorised dealer or was it by one of those Internet companies? I have heard that sometimes they sell used stuff as new! |
|
Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 346 Registered: Apr-04 | By the way, if you all think that Yamaha or other Japanese companies don't have any problems with their gear, then maybe you better check again! It does not matter if it was made in blouk blouk islands, that does not make it any worse! GM builds crap cars in the States and we are supposed to have the best technology in the world! |
|
Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 236 Registered: Feb-05 | I very much agree with you Ziggy, problems of this nature are completely intolerable with a $1K or more receiver. Just to let you guys know I recently sent an HK receiver I have had for 4 years to this shop- In House Stereo Repair. This HK is a model AVR 310 purchased from CC in 2001. This receiver has performed flawlessly and sounds great other than a faint buzzing, 60Hz AC hum coming through the speakers. Of course with the volume turned to regular listening levels or higher this noise cannot be heard. During quiet passages in music and movies this noise can be heard because the unit was in a small quiet bedroom. It is a very minor flaw, but I find it annoying and aggravating since I sent it to CC repair 4 TIMES to correct this problem to no avail. A couple of years after I initially purchased this unit I earned an associates degree in an electronics field, Had I the knowledge then that I have now I would have returned the unit. So let this be a warning, no receiver no matter how expensive or cheap should have this kind of problem. If you buy one and it has this problem,and no ground loops are the cause, RETURN IT IMMEDIATELY! Personally I would look at the unit myself but I don't have the MDS sheets for the product and HK only sells these to authorized repair centers. I also don't have the sophisticated equipment needed such as a wideband o scope to troubleshoot a complex problem such as this. Well anyway, I recently purchased an AVR 335 which is the latest equalivalent to replace the AVR310 and it is completely silent no hum or hiss whatsoever. This is a hard learned lesson for me as I will probably have to shell out $100-150 for this repair once the cause has been determined.On the bright side, I am very confidant in this repair center and am sure they will identify the problem. |
|
Unregistered guest | Danman, with all due respect, quit pounding on your keyboard and back up what your position is with some specific information. The post, if you read it, is based on sourced, detailed information. Your unpersuasive response is sorely lacking in that respect. Also, you just insulted any knowledgeable person by including any suspicions to Yamaha AVR quality into the equation. That is a direct indicator of the myopia that you suffer. |
|
Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 47 Registered: Jun-05 | Danman, I gave NAD every benefit of the doubt. And I also have no problems with their 2-channel gear. But to drop the kind of coin a 773 requires (and it ain't cheap, no matter how you look at it) and not have it be dead silent with no source coming through it... well it just isn't happening here. You are correct that every manufacturer has defects.. it's the very nature of the business... but the NAD hiss has been prevalent in EVERY generation of their AVRs and they still have not been able to correct it on their new units. Why is this? If it's a specific problem, it should be correctable in the manufacturing process. And at ~$1500 for the 773, it's unacceptable. Don't get me wrong..... I love NAD amps, and their CD players too.... but I will never again consider a NAD AVR. The performance is astonishing for the price; but their build quality for the price is equally as astonishing in the other direction. I'll put it this way... on an equal price basis, there are very few 2-channel amps/integrated recievers I would rather own than a NAD. On an equal price basis there are NO AVRs I would rather own less than a NAD. The difference is performance vs. ownership. A great analogy is in the automotive market. GM, Ford, D-C, Volkswagen, etc. offer products in their range that are at or near the top of the class in terms of performace, whether that be acceleration, handling, or what have you... but they are all FAR below average in terms of reliability, and, as a direct result, resale value (although I have to admit GM has been much better over the last half-decade than their peers), and OWNING one of these products is far different than DRIVING one of these products. Some things can be tremendously satisfying to use every once in a while (the NAD sound is a perfect example), but very trying to own (the NAD reliability also perfect here). For me, the most satisfying car to drive I've ever owned was a 1993 Mazda RX-7. It also happened to be, mechanically, the biggest piece of $hit I've ever owned. And that is the essence of the "performance vs. ownership" argument. |
|
Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1201 Registered: Mar-05 | Ziggy, I like your car analogy. Just curious, what would you consider to be the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry of receivers/amps? By which I mean excellent long-term reliability and good (but not spectacular of course) performance for a pretty reasonable price. |
|
Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1597 Registered: Jan-05 | I recommend throwing your broken-down NAD in the garbage. They arent exactly known for their quality control and reliability. |
|
Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 51 Registered: Jun-05 | Edster.. I'd lean towards the Denon/Yamaha/Pioneer/Marantz/HK receivers for that comparison. They all do some things well, and have some limitations, while maintaining good reliability. Within each brand, I think the Denons below the 280x series are not built as well; same thing for the Yamahas below the Rx-V65x. I have less experience with the Pioneers, but from what I've heard they offer excellent performance while skimping on some features that the others offer. I think, as a rule, HK offers the best build quality across their entire range - I won't say that the top-line HKs are any better than the top-line Denon/Yamaha/Pioneer, but the bottom-line models in the HK line are closer to the top than the other manufacturers. In keeping with the analogy, I'd equate Marantz with BMW - maybe a little overpriced (at least at list), but very good performance and at least average reliability. |
|
Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1077 Registered: Feb-05 | I continued to pressure Rotel after a similar QC problem and they gave a new model from refurb stock. Trust me all equipment has issues. The owner of Bradford's (an audio store that I frequent) had multiple problems with his Music Hall SACD player which took months to be fixed. It's all a gamble. |
|
Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 54 Registered: Jun-05 | Art... you are correct, and there's something to be said for the companies that take care of those problems, NAD included. But it seems some companies have more problems than others; and when those problems are well-documented and not fixed, that's bad business. It's one thing to buy a product in that price range and have to deal with an unexpected problem; it's another thing entirely to spend that much money and have to hope you're one of the lucky ones to get a trouble-free product. If you have, and are happy with, a NAD AVR... more power to you. But it's not for me, and probably not for others that can't afford to take that risk. |
|
Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1078 Registered: Feb-05 | I understand Ziggy, I probably make less money than most folks on the forum so I really can't afford broken down gear. I related my experience with Rotel only to demonstrate that some companies have problem products and then work hard to correct the issues in subsequent generations. I believe that NAD and Rotel are similar in that respect. http://audioholics.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/a-v-receivers/ROTEL/PRD_118 774_2718crx.aspx http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/a-v-receivers/nad/PRD_125206_2718cr x.aspx See a trend. I owned the RSX 965 and had one problem after another. Hiss and Hum, solder joints, and on and on. BTW it was the best sounding AVR I've ever owned. The next generation Rotel solved many of the QC issues but didn't sound as good. Both of my regional NAD dealers who are also friends tell me that they have more reliability issues with Marantz than NAD. They should know they carry both. |
|
Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1599 Registered: Jan-05 | I for once agree with ziggy, and I would never consider NAD because of their quality control issues because I refuse to do business with companies who knowingly flood the market with defective and 'buggy' garbage. |
|
Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1079 Registered: Feb-05 | I wasn't looking for approval, just stating the facts. All companies knowingly flood the market with garbage. But with many of those companies products it's difficult to tell. NAD has a good rep so it is particularly salient when they are having trouble with a product. For many other companies it's just the status quo. |
|
Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 55 Registered: Jun-05 | I think he11 froze over at 12:42 eastern time today. |
|
Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1604 Registered: Jan-05 | Yea, either that, or somebody's chilling those NADs at time of burial. I figure there would be just about enough 'damaged' goods being sent down there to even give hell a chill. |
|
Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1091 Registered: Feb-05 | Paul are you still on vacation? |
|
Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1606 Registered: Jan-05 | Naw... We're leaving in the morning, and you'll all be rid of me for 2 weeks. |
|
Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1093 Registered: Feb-05 | Enjoy your vacation. We've already arranged to replace your CV's with Paradigm Atoms and your Yammie with a 2 watt s.e.t. amp. 2 watt 2 channel movies yeehaw! |
|
Zorro Unregistered guest | Paul, Two weeks without watching movies ? !!!!!!! hang in there man ! |
|
Paolo Unregistered guest | JAW, My T752 broke too, but right on the verge of the warranty expiration. I had it repaired at The Service Bench, in Norwood, Massachusetts. The problem was in the control section, the unit Display and the OSD would show "corrupted" text and the T752 would go into "spontaneous" stand-by when storing radio stations in memory. A random issue was also that when shutting down the T752 from the main power switch without putting it first in stand-by I would hear a loud "pop" noise in the speakers. The T752 never did that for almost two years and then it started together with the other problems I mentioned. To make a long story short, the dealer (Fidelis AV in Derry, NH), took care of everything, shipping the T752 to The Service Bench. The guys there fixed everything but the "pop" noise. Surprisingly, the technician I talked to told me this is an issue with several NAD AVRs and there is not a fix... Since then I have had a multitude of phone conversation with the service center and Tech Support at NAD. Both maintains that there is nothing they can do to eliminate the "pop" noise and the unit is supposed to be left in stand-by. While that might be true (Although not mentioned in the user manual as a requirement) it bothers me to no end that for almost two years my T752 didn't have this "issue". I'm going to write a complain letter to NAD, although I'm not so hopeful it will accomplish much. JAW, going back to your "dilemma" I certainly recommend The Service Center if you decide to repair the T752. And if you call NAD Tech Support ask for Mike. Very nice guy and as far as I can say he has honestly been trying to help me with my T752 troubles. Paolo. |
|
Unregistered guest | Paolo, thank you very much for the tip. Wanted to get 2 opinions on the condition of the T752 plus another cost estimate on the fix. With your reference, now know who to go to for another looksee. I am currently running the unit as a preamp with the parasound outboard hooked up. This has obviously taken alot of the load off the NAD and it doesn't shut down; still runs way too hot with fan on immediately. So, got to do something before it completely goes south. I hear you on the POP; sounds like you are literally destroying the speakers. Did I read you correctly that at first there was no pop with the on/off switch? Yes, the T7x2 series does not have a standby button on the unit itself; have to use the remote only to do that and it's a pain tracking down the remote when you're next to the AVR. Believe the T7x3 series has the on/off on the back and a standby on the front. NAD oversight for us. I have a FIX. My final moment of genius: we took a cheap Philips Learning Remote, $14, and programmed in the on/off/standby function from the NAD HTR2 remote. Then, just set the Philips remote angled correctly on the top front of the NAD T752 and use it to click the unit into standby. We also put scotch tape over the on/off button for a month to remind the household to use the "standby button" on the Philips. It works. Got a question, drop a note. Again, appreciate the service tip. |
|
Paolo. Unregistered guest | JAW, I'm very glad I could help. This is one of the reasons why we all hang around here, right? By the way, the name of the NAD service center is The Service Bench, I realised I may have confused you writing "The Service Center" at the end of my posting. I think they don't have a web site, their phone number is (781) 769 4337. The technician that worked on my T752 is Pete or Peter, don't remember. Yes, you got it correctly, my T752 NEVER had this loud "POP" from the day I got it (April 2003) until the day it went crazy with this and the other issues I described. Like I wrote, it is the only thing service couldn't fix. It doesn't happen all the time, but I'd say 6 times out of 10 if I switch it off from the main power switch. That what it annoys me, the issue just wasn't there before. I guess that by incident I got a unit that was better than NAD intended................ I do not consider myself an expert, but I do have an engineering background and I work for a semiconductor company (although I'm now in marketing, the dark side got me, eventually...:-) and frankly the "explantions" I have been given are not convincing. Thanks for the tip on the You-do-It-Yourself stand-by... Since the T752 came back I have been using the NAD remote to put it in stand-by, rather than using the front panel switch. I have been thinking to drop a note to NAD through their web site and ask it there is a front panel button combination that either exists or can be "programmed" to put in std-by the unit without the remote. A while ago I e-mailed them asking if I could program one of the remote buttons to toggle the "Tone defeat" (when watching movies I find the need to tweak the Bass and Trebles once in a while) and they provided me the codes to do that. I know it is different in this case, but you never know. There are undocumented keypresses to reset the T752 to factory setting or to get the display to show the firmware version, so... Good luck with your T752. If I were you I'd have it repaired, enjoy it for another year or two and then sell it to upgrade to something a notch higher. Other than the recent issues, I have enjoied immensely the sound of this AVR. I love how it sounds in stereo with music and IMHO it does a very respectful job with HT. I have passive, full range speakers on all 5 channels and it always sounds loud and clean without strain if I keep it within the due limits. I know a separate "music only" system is the best way to go. However, to my ears the T752 sounded like the best compromise for mixed music/HT use at the time I was shopping to upgrade from my old Dolby Surrond AVR. Your mileage may vary. Paolo. |
|
New member Username: FontboyPost Number: 5 Registered: Jul-05 | ziggy, have you any expereince with thier recievers - from the dra-295 to the dra-685? what do you think of them? was thinking about getting a nad 2 channel amp, but want to consider these also. thanks, |
|
Bronze Member Username: MoorejhPost Number: 33 Registered: May-05 | FYI...I have a new NAD T773 with Paradigm Studio 100 fronts, center, and di-polar surrounds and do not have any hiss or humm besides my neighbor moaning that his wife will not let him spend that amount of money. Hopefully I got a good unit. |
|
Anonymous | HEY HERE'S AN IDEA FOR NAD-LISTEN NAD!!!I am a fan of your products-you design great sounding products(when they work properly).My suggestion is to stop ruining your reputation and build your products better!!!!Yes it will cost the consumer $100-$200 more for say a receiver but it will stop the destruction of your reputation(in this cuthroat business)and I will tell you I personally will buy 2 of your receivers immediately when you fix the QC issues.How will we know when you fix these issues-hopefully the price might go up a bit,and you will offer a 5yr warranty standard on your receivers.Think about it since NAD products are always rated as HUGE,HUGE bargains soundwise if they go up in price a little they will still be rated as bargains,especially if you include that 5yr warranty.NAD products even now are still just a bit too expensive to appeal to bargain shoppers,so your customers are mainly music lovers and audiophiles who have high expectations for their expensive purchases.Also if I were NAD I would also focus on making some killer power amps of varying power-and if you made them well they could start at $600-800(depending on power)and people would buy tons of these to add to their name brand(cheaper)receiver for better sound.I am available to run NAD if they want me(no kidding!)-I just love the sound of NAD products and therefore it is such a shame to see them designing products well but producing them APPARENTLY so poorly that I personally have no faith in them and will probably not purchase another product unless they fix their QC problems(and prove it to me with a longer warranty)--once again NAD is not competing with sony,so you need to build a better product when people spend major $ on their equipment--even if it's paying off now I can't beleive it's a good business decision in the long term-of course I could be wrong but as I said unless NAD ever improves their build quality I personally will probably never buy another NAD product which is a shame since I love their products!!! |
|
Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 377 Registered: Apr-04 | I am not sure what goal you aim to obtain by writing that message BUT for your information, NAD's QC problems are in their AV lineup and NOT the 2 channel systems! Even though there are some problems, they are mostly involved with the computer software and not the hardware itself. These computer bugs can be very difficult in figuring out and I think that NAD has raised the bar in trying to find out what to do. Many companies that develop receivers for this new fad of 5.1 and up viewing, are having some problems adapting at the price range they sell their products since competition is tough. In order to make equipment really reliable, you are somewhat right by saying that maybe they should put in some better parts at the expense of a price increase. You also mentioned power amps........NAD already makes the wonderful C272 that is VERY reliable and at the price you mentioned. I am not sure why you added that remark. You will have to sort out your facts with NAD and not include their stereo lineup with the receivers mentioned in the above posts. I would personally NEVER buy a receiver as I am 80% into music and find this fad a little out of the ordinary for my tatstes as well as not a reliable way to make audio equipment with all the DAC's, chips processors.....anything completely digital is dangerous for reliability. Nad has made quite a profit this year and from what my dealer told me, is trying to sort out some of the issues they have with AV receivers. But like I said, he also told me other companies are have their fair share of problems as well including Cambridge, Onkyo, Panasonic etc.....that is the price to pay in the ever increasing "cheepie" market that this area of audio has created. I am sure that only about 5% of new owners actually have QC issues as in general, being on many forums, I have only seen complaints on ecoustics! I also know people that own these receivers and never have had one problem at all. Hard to say I guess. |
|
Gvenk Unregistered guest | First, NAD has a noticeable Q/C problem. It isn't the same as saying no one else has bad units. NAD's problems seem to go beyond the norm especially for a boutique manufacturer. For example, many Ferraris have a lot of problems which is beyond what you would find it in a Lexus. But the fact that some Lexus also have problems does not put them all in the same boat which is what NAD enthusaists seem to be doing. Granted that exaggerated hyperbole from Paul and the like make people defensive but one also needs to be careful that a manufacturer does not take its loyal following for granted and try to push things that are not satisfactory. "anything completely digital is dangerous for reliability" The above is absolute rubbish and only shows a mindset of the past not one that is logical or informed. And A/V is not a fad (as in a passing fancy). It is different hobby from music but nevertheless as important and relevant to entertainment as any other form. The future will be units that will perform great whether you are just listening to audio or have the full multi-media experience. Pure audio became a dominant theme only because good video experience was so dificult to reproduce at home. But that is slowly changing. Unfortunately, many manufacturers have also fallen into this mindset which is why they spend disproportionate amount of their R&D dollars on accomodating the video part while not wanting to lose out that lucrative market and so pushing things that have the video parts as afterthoughts. I have not found a single boutique manufacturer that takes both audio and video equally seriously. They might do decent equipment but video always comes secondary in priorities. NAD's problems with their A/V receivers is a good example of problems with that mindset. |
|
Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 379 Registered: Apr-04 | NAD came late to the game and are paying the price with catch up no doubt about that but to excuse my comment about digital equipment at these low prices is an absence of knowledge on your part. Making low cost equipment with cheaper DAC's and processors is a mixture for problems. The Japanese have an advantage here and have figured out some cures to their earlier problems as they were basically the inventors at this category. "I have not found a single boutique manufacturer that takes both audio and video equally seriously. They might do decent equipment but video always comes secondary in priorities." This is normal as most stores still believe in sound reproduction before video and it will take time to adjust. I said "fad" but did not mean it the way it sounded. I know that the AV market is going to get bigger every day even though most audio companies would love for it to go away. |
|
Gvenk Unregistered guest | Dan, your clarification on use of digital components in low cost equipment is quite different from the sweeping statement in the earlier post that I commented on. Even in cheap receivers, the digital components themselves aren't any less reliable any more than cheap transistors, solder material, integrated amp chips, etc., often used in analog equipment. It just so happens that half-way decent analog systems required a certain sound quality that wasn't possible to get from very cheaply built components and therefore the components used tended to be better than the bottom lot in reliability. With digital systems, it is possible to get decent (I am not talking boutique performance here) audio/video performance with even the lowest priced components which may suffer from reliability problems. But this has nothing to do with them being digital. There are digital components far more complex than DACs and video processors that have been used cheaply in other applications with very little (if any) reliability problems. The challenge for NAD and other boutique manufacturers in this area is to enter into the digital/video world without compromising their sound quality. Part of it is mindset and part of it is having higher standards. Stores only believe in what will sell and the most lucrative market at the moment is in a/v. If NAD et al., don't move quickly enough, this creates a strong opportunity for new boutique entrants to provide a/v products that excel in both. Between them and the large mass gorillas that have improved their audio considerably compared to 10 years ago and have excellent video capabilities, NADs might become extinct or concentrate entirely on the very high-end, high-margin separates which would completely change what NAD stood for. I am only frustrated that the current mid-level boutique manufacturers that have excellent value and performance in audio have been so slow to adopt video (even if it might mean their own slow demise). |
|
Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 386 Registered: Apr-04 | I guess I did not explain myself well in my first post.......sorry. I agree with all you are saying and yes NAD has to catch up quickly andI believe they will. They did have a very good fiscal year from what I heard but have to figure out their AV problems soon. NAD has always stood for audio quality at a resonable price but also has high standards. I really hope they survive this different market segment that has changed audio as I know it since I am no enthousiast of the mutiple speaker, surround sound, digital thing and I am under 40 years old! I even own a large screen t.v. BUT...........I listen to almost all music. My DVD player costs 250$C however I am getting the new NAD T514 slim line next week but this is only because my Cambridge is giving me massive problems after only 4 months and my dealer will take it back at a loss of only 75$. I seriously hope NAD will not change markets to survive. |
|
Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 187 Registered: Apr-05 | "Even in cheap receivers, the digital components themselves aren't any less reliable any more than cheap transistors, solder material, integrated amp chips, etc., often used in analog equipment." Gvenk I'm not quite sure about your intended meaning specifically. Though cheap components are the same regardless of whether you make digital or analog amps, the manufacturing process used in making cheap amps can and often does by itself lead to cheap products that fail. The amount of time a processor board spends on the assembly line, for example, directly impacts the quality of the amp as well as the cost. As I stated in my post earlier NAD and other makers of usually good equipment are prone to going outside of their trusted manufacturing circles and using plants and suppliers that fail and "learn" on NAD (and ultimately our) dime. |