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Unregistered guest | I've been listening for a year to possible replacements for my 20 year old system. Music of all kinds ("classic rock"/country/classical/blues/jazz) 90% / HT 10% in a 2500 sf room (16x18x8). I think this system will work, but I would appreciate any comments since I have not been able to put the pieces together to hear them combined. Paradigm Studio 20s fronts Denon 3805 (refurb) Onkyo 570 (refurb) for center, sides, rear (to be upgraded in the future) Mirage S12 sub Any opinions on the Denon 3805 vs HK 635? Is there another better match for the Paradigms up to $800 or so? Am I overspending on the received relative to the speakers? Any opinions on the Mirage sub vs HSU VTF-2? The Mirage was $400 at Tweeter and clearly better than the Polk subs they had, but I'd spring for the small extra $ if the HSU might be a better match. The receiver and sub from the 570 will be in my bedroom with my old Infinity bookshelves (foam surrounds replaced). Perfect sound isn't required there. I know, that's heresy to some . . . Thanks in advance, Jon |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 901 Registered: Feb-04 | I think you should timbre-match your speakers. I would be surprised if the Onkyo speakers sounded anything like the Paradigm. Start with a matched 5.1 setup rather than an unmatched 7.1 setup. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 902 Registered: Feb-04 | Am I overspending on the received relative to the speakers? That's a question for great debate. I'd say yes you are and other would disagree. I personnaly think that the biggest change in sound and presentation is through speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1146 Registered: Mar-05 | I haven't heard the Mirage sub but did hear some Mirage speakers that totally did not impress me. Generally speaking though, I'd strongly prefer to buy a sub from a subwoofer-only manufacturer like Hsu, SVS, or Velodyne rather than a speaker manufacturer, you're sure to get much better quality for your money. The Denon 3805 and HK 635 should be very close in quality, and you might be able to find the 635 on eBay from Harman Audio in the $600-700 price range with full original HK warranty. Never heard of a Denon refurb coming with the full original Denon warranty. For the speakers, if you liked the sound of the Studio 20s you should be very happy with the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s which cost a fraction of the Paradigms (ascendacoustics.com) and are possibly the most widely and glowingly reviewed Internet-direct speaker on the market. Do a little Google and audioreview.com search and read up on them. I agree with Peter's recommendation on timbre matching especially for the front 3 speakers but the surrounds are really an afterthought, you can get away with keeping the Onkyo pieces for the surrounds---they only do maybe 10% of the work on most HT anyways, and since you only do 10% HT to begin with it makes no sense to scrimp on other areas just for matching surrounds. For 90% music though I'd seriously consider sticking with just the best 2.1 system you can get. Something like this maybe: NAD c352 integrated amp, $500-600 Ascend CMT-340s left/right with Hsu STF-2 sub, $985 shipped or $759 shipped for CBM-170s/STF-2. NAD c542 CD player, $400-500 Unless you are really into big action flicks or plan on buying a lot of DVD-As and SACDs, surround sound IMHO is really a waste of money. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 154 Registered: May-05 | Actually, if you buy the Denon off eBay from Dakmart, they warranty for 1 year, same as Denon plus you get Denon's 90 day warranty. Now, I'm going to admit that Edster talked me into to Ascends and I'm sold to the tune of CBM 170s times 4 and 340 center. BUT, I can't compare to the Paradigms so I'm no help there but they're incredibly clean and neutral and I've fallen in love with Norah Jones, sorry Ed, I know you saw her first. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1163 Registered: Mar-05 | ooh, lay off, I got first dibs on Norah!!! (She can keep her second CD though.) |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 168 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah shes great the best recordingI've ever heard on cd. |
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Jon S Unregistered guest | Thanks, all. Sometimes it helps to just unload, get opinions, and rethink. I had only about 5 mins to do a quick check on the Denon before I bought it on Ubid (with full Denon warranty, only $700). Then I spent another 1/2 hour doing searches and reading reviews which led me to cancel the order. I'm sure it's a great receiver, but it was never high on my "list" anyway and there are better options. An NAD 753 (refurb, $750) or an HK 635 (new, $700), 435 (new, $625) or 335 (new, $460) seem like better options. Rotel is above budget, and CA does not seem quite as highly regarded. I also heard an Integra but wasn't sure it sounded "right" with the Paradigms. I really wanted to keep the receiver under $500 and have the capability for home theater, but quality (build and sound) is most important. The Mirage has gotten a favorable review (it's pretty new). It was another instance of a quick decision - I had about 10 minutes before the store closed and the sale would be over. I'm on the wait list for a VTF-2 (10" is plenty for my room), so if I don't hear more about the Mirage I'll return it and wait for the Hsu. The center from the Onkyo would be temporary - with the Studios I'd go with the 370 or 470 center, just not so soon after spending $2000 for the other stuff. The Ascends seem like a steal, but I really wanted a cherry wood veneer (I don't like the vinyl of the 20s, but they'll be a better "fit" in the room than black). I've been very frustrated with this feature (Polk = good looks; other speakers = better sound), which is part of the reason it's taking me so long to pull the trigger. At this point I might go with black speakers just so their neutral and I can enjoy better sounding music. By the way, Norah is the first of my reference discs when I listen to speakers. Then the Eagles, then my other stuff. Thanks again for the input. It's very much appreciated. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1174 Registered: Mar-05 | Another possibility is to get an entry-level HK 235 refurb for around $200-300 from Harman Audio on eBay (full original HK warranty) and then buy a separate 2-channel NAD amp to use with it for music. The 235 should be fine for HT if you absolutely must have surround sound, and the NAD will definitely deliver the goods for the 90% of the time that you're listening to music. Art Kyle led me on this path, it's worked beautifully. Someone else on this forum has that exact HK235+NADamp setup, can't remember who exactly...maybe Rick Zmiejko or Peter Galbraith. BTW there are alternatives to the plain black finish of the Ascends: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170finop.html I've heard of one person on one of these forums who got Ascend to ship him an unfinished MDF cabinet which he hand stained himself, then shipped it back to them so they could put the drivers in and ship it back to him. This of course would add to cost and turnaround time considerably. If you like Norah Jones I'm certain you'll love the Ascends. There is one song of hers that you might NOT want to play too loudly on the Ascend speakers though: "Come Away With Me." They are such revealing speakers that you will very clearly hear the cymbal brushes in the background, which I found distracting when cranked to reference levels. It only jumped out at me when I added some NAD separates to my system and had it at much higher volumes than I've ever used with my Marantz (because the NAD gear doesn't thin out like the Marantz does at reference levels). It's possible that NJ was just not meant to be listened to that loud, however. ; ) |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 190 Registered: Jun-05 | Its not so many dips and peaks in the music lots of macro and micro dynamics |