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Bronze Member Username: TwochordcoolPost Number: 18 Registered: Jun-05 | OK, so if I'm starting to build a stereo and home theater from scratch, and I am probably looking at the higher end budget equipment - Should I concern myself with impedance? The only reason that I ask is because I have started with speakers, and I am shying away from very good speakers for their impedance ratings, ie Monitor Audio Bronze B2's (6 Ohm) and Epos ELS-3's (4 Ohms). What do I have to take into consideration if I will be looking for a 6.1 receiver under $500? Are most of those receivers going to be strictly 8 Ohm impedances? Will I have 6 and 4 Ohm choices in this price range? Are there advantages of buying a receiver rated at 6 and 4 Ohms? |
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Silver Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 568 Registered: May-05 | There is a close friend, and he said the impedance changes due to frequency response, yes look into it more, Jan may know a thing or two more on this, as I have limited knowledge on it, but try the "search engine" on "Google" you may find faster results along with graphics and text to wet your mouth. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 220 Registered: Dec-03 | Your "better" multi-channel receivers will be able to handle 8, 6 or 4 ohm and this is becoming more common with newer equipment. It's not the critical issue is was in the past but always check the manual (if the store even as one) to make sure. Most of the newer equipment can handle a speaker rated at 4 ohm nominal just fine. If you can, try to view a graph of the impedance vs. frequency for the speaker. Andy is right, impedance is frequency dependent. There are some amp manufacturers that try to skew the power ratings by rating them at 6 ohm rather than the more common 8 ohm rating so take that with a grain of salt. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 221 Registered: Dec-03 | This article was targeted at tube amp users but does a good job of de-mystifying speaker impedance. http://www.symphonysound.com/articles/tubefriendly.html |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 29 Registered: Jun-05 | In the sub-$500 range. I wouldn't trust any 6.1 or 7.1 receiver besides HK or Marantz to consistently drive a 4-ohm load. |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 528 Registered: Mar-05 | Maybe the Denon 1905 would be fine. |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 104 Registered: Jun-05 | Or maybe even an Onkyo or Yamaha,Just stay away from:Sony,Kenwood,Pioneer,JVC,and Techniques,none of those are high current amplifiers,oh and even the Yamahas from the chain stores because they are different models cheaper capsitors and power supplies.I would really go after those Epos the ELS 3s have one of the most uncolored midbass I have heard. |
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Anonymous | Can the Panasonic and JVC receivers with digital amplifiers manage low impedance loads? |
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Silver Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 107 Registered: Jun-05 | I dont Know,you have to look at when your not watching movies and then its music time those high current units are proven to play good music. |
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Bronze Member Username: TwochordcoolPost Number: 20 Registered: Jun-05 | "Or maybe even an Onkyo or Yamaha,Just stay away from:Sony,Kenwood,Pioneer,JVC,and Techniques,none of those are high current amplifiers,oh and even the Yamahas from the chain stores because they are different models cheaper capsitors and power supplies.I would really go after those Epos the ELS 3s have one of the most uncolored midbass I have heard" Would these receivers have problems if I stuck to 8 Ohm speakers? I know it might not be necessary - I saw some of the better Yamaha receivers for under $500 at a specialty shop when I went to hear the Titans - the guy said that these Yamaha receivers WERE better than the ones that you would find at Best Buy. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4315 Registered: May-04 | "It is difficult to make generalizations about the quality of a given speaker or amp in terms of its measurements." Excellent article, Timn8ter! Everyone should make an effort to read and understand this article and the simple truths it presents. Timothy, if I might make a few suggestions, I would begin with an commonition to shop at the best stores in your area. Though the pedigree of the shop doesn't always translate into reliable information from any one salesperson, there's a better chance a new salesperson will learn something from others who've been around audio for years than if the entire bunch is working to afford their new car stereo. Even if you end up paying slightly more for your system at the specialty shop, you will reap the rewards of a more satisfying system that will work well together, be upgradeable and will have been put together with an eye towards the final sound not just the bits and pieces. Remember, you are buying an audio "system"; everything has to work well together or you will be disappointed in the end result. Spend time in the shop when it is quiet and the staff can devote some time to making the systems you're considering work for you. Salespeople can't move equipment around on Saturdays or whe the shop is full of people. On a Wednesday afternoon you will have a better chance to hear X receiver with Y speakers. Don't expect a full 5.1 system to be rearranged; the front speakers will be sufficient. Ask questions and if it stll sounds like the salesperson is BS'ing you, they probably are. Your chances of this happening in a better shop are less than at Best Buy. The products you find in a better shop are more likely to come from manufacturers who are concerned about your happiness with their product. If they don't have reviews or literature about their equipment, they are usually the sort of manufacturers who take phone calls and will discuss your thoughts and questions. You will get an automated menu when you call Sony, Yamaha or Pioneer and there will be no option for asking questions. If you've read the article, you'll see that what is on paper is seldom enough information to be helpful. An 8 Ohm speaker can still be dangerously low (or high) in its impedance and a high sensitivity speaker can still be difficult to drive to high volumes. A better shop and better manufacturers will have the information you require or can find it for you. Finally, I would suggest you turn your system buying around and consider the amplifier before you listen to speakers. You do not want to limit yourself to which speakers you can choose. What happens if you choose a speaker that can't be driven by an amplifier in your budget? Choose the amplifier first with the thought of not limiting yourself to speaker choices and then your selection of speakers will be much easier. You may end up with a slightly less expensive speaker than if you go your present route. But, I can assure you the results of a better amplifier with less expensive speakers is still a much more desirable alternative to speakers which are not suited to the amplifier that fits in your remaining budget. |
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Bronze Member Username: TwochordcoolPost Number: 21 Registered: Jun-05 | Hey Jan, appreciate the information. I have done a lot of "homework" on speakers and I feel comfortable with making this purchase first. I know that I won't spend more than $500 on a receiver - I have to set a limit for this. And so, correct me if I am wrong, most $500 receivers won't be able to handle 4 and 6 Ohm speakers. This is how I came to the conclusion of eliminating 4 and 6 Ohm speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 234 Registered: Feb-05 | Timothy, just about all the receivers made by HK and NAD will handle speakers which tend to have a low impedence. There is no reason to reject a speaker automatically because it has a low characteristic impedence. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4329 Registered: May-04 | Also, as the linked article above argues, there is no reason to trust a higher impedance speaker. 8 Ohm speakers can, and do, dip down around 4 Ohms on a regular basis. That played against the phase angle of the speaker can present problems for many $500 amplifiers. I agree HK and NAD amplifiers overall tend to handle the current demands of this sort of design much better than most of their competitors. But, unless you know the 8 Ohm speaker you're looking at is not going to dip down into the 4 or 5 Ohm range (or lower), why bother to exclude any speakers? That "8 Ohm" speaker can still present problems. A consistent 4 Ohm speaker can be an easier load than an 8 Ohm design that wanders around the impedance graph. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 2081 Registered: Aug-04 | Example B&W DM602 S3 - from their specs: Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms (minimum 3.0 ohms). I know these things swing, LOL! |
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New member Username: Thunder18Post Number: 2 Registered: Jul-05 | "You will get an automated menu when you call Sony, Yamaha or Pioneer and there will be no option for asking questions. " Hey, I've called Pioneer at least 4 times in the last year and while initially you do get an automated set-up, you can fairly easily get to a person and they do have answers for you. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4356 Registered: May-04 | I'll scratch Pioneer off my list of do nothing companies. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 4357 Registered: May-04 | I will add Toshiba. I had a few questions about one of their universal DVD players and it took 10 weeks to get an answer from the engineers in Japan that said they didn't have the answer to my questions. (A fairly basic question in this case was; what is output from the jacks labeled "mixed audio"? The owner's manual was so poorly written it left me wondering. Apparently there is no answer to the question.) On top of that, the player's performance was sub par. It was cheap to buy but didn't even perform up to the level of other cheap products. |