Myth: Glue or Hairspray on paper speaker cones?
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Bronze Member Username: DuckmanxPost Number: 34 Registered: Mar-05 | Well some of you may have heard that on paper based cones, you can apply a layer of Hairspray or a kind of decoupler glue, like the ones they have for puzzles on the speakers to create a tighter sound. Supposed to put a few layerson the front and back of the speaker and avoid the outside gasket and dust cap. Any thoughts, do you think it'll work? Or is it an old HiFi maids tale? |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 167 Registered: May-05 | It sounds kind of shady. If it ruins them - ie makes them too stiff and break, or chemicals melt or warp them - then what? I think they were made with a certain amount of elasticity for a reason. If they are an old pair that you are going to throw out anyway, I say why not? If they have any value to you at all, I say leave well enough alone. |
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Anonymous | In addition to the chemicals messing up the cone, the weight of the cone (which is typically designed with a certain degree of precision) would be thrown off, which would negatively affect performance. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 212 Registered: Dec-03 | No, it's not a myth. Tweakers who enjoy seeing just how much they can get out of a driver use Dammar thinned with turpentine, or better yet, Puzzlecoat made by Modge that is sold in most craft stores and is BRUSHED on, not sprayed. Tweakers are usually working with very lightweight cones in an effort to stiffen them and perhaps add a little mass. I've had some success with this tweak, along with others but I was working with particular drivers that were known to respond well to this treatment. My results are measurable, not anecdotal. For those with the proper equipment that can identify the particular areas of the cone creating the resonance the treatment can be applied to tame specific frequency. The treatment can reduce cone resonances but be prepared that by sheer experimentation you may make things worse rather than better. My current commercial designs use drivers that are already treated and I would HATE for someone to put hairspray on them. OMG! Also, many dustcaps are designed to breath. Putting a treatment on them prevents that. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShahrukhdMumbai, Maharashtra India Post Number: 60 Registered: Nov-04 | Timn8tr, any tweaks recommended for my Wharfedale Diamond 8.1s?? |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 214 Registered: Dec-03 | I've not torn into a Wharfedale system. There are some basic tweaks you can try. If you want to take the chance you could open them up and perhaps upgrade the capacitors with some high grade units like AuriCaps, SoniCaps, or AudioCaps brand. Damping the driver frames can help. Many budget drivers have stamped rather than cast frames (not mine, mind you) that benefit from having a non-hardening clay, or something called Duct Seal used in air-con systems, applied to the frame above the magnet and on the frame legs. I wouldn't mess with the cones unless you're willing to accept the risk of decreased performance. Externally, use a mass loaded speaker stand and try placing something heavy, like a slab of granite, on top of the speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: DuckmanxPost Number: 35 Registered: Mar-05 | I was thinking about the Sony SA-WM40 the only thing i find tough is that the driver has corregated rings, about 4 of them, before leading down to the dust cap. How would I go about putting the dammar/puzzlecoat on to those corregated rings? Also, I heard that optimal is 3 layers on the front and 1 on the back... your thoughts? If I am a little bit more cautious, and I choose to do a single coat on both sides (thinly) do you think it will do anything? or is it an all or nothing bet? |
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Bronze Member Username: DuckmanxPost Number: 38 Registered: Mar-05 | Puzzlecoat has not been around for a while, so mod podge seems like its the only available kind. So, do I need to thin the mixture if its too thick? If so, what should I thin it with? |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 261 Registered: Dec-03 | Puzzlecoat can be found at Michael's Craft Stores. Just picked up a bottle not too long ago. Another option is PVA glue thinned with water. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 262 Registered: Dec-03 | Ducky: Usually I wouldn't treat the surrounds or the dust cap. Surrounds need to move and dust caps need to breathe. Start with 2 coats on the front and test it out. If you don't have measurement equipment it's going be tougher deciding when it's enough. I've found that 2 coats of Puzzlecoat is usually enough. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 263 Registered: Dec-03 | Another neat trick (that is irreversible, fair warning) is to remove the dustcap and replace it with a "phase" plug. Here's some examples. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3276%26item%3D5786178175% 26%26 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3276%26item%3D5780943218% 26%26 http://www.timn8er.com/fostex_fe207e_phase_plug_test.htm |
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Bronze Member Username: DuckmanxPost Number: 39 Registered: Mar-05 | Timn8ter, Holy *$#@ You're hardcore into audio mods... I never even thought about cuttin off the dust caps. Well, mines a 12" subwoofer so I dont hear any of the tweety/chestiness of the speaker. So you wouldnt suggest me putting a coat on the back of the cone? That is my only concern with doing it. I am willing to put a coat on, but I am afraid of tearing the cone when I take it out of the basket. Any recommendations? SHould I even bother with the back? |
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Anonymous | Dude, if you don't know what you're doing, its best to leave it the heck alone. Tim builds loudspeakers and might have a general clue about this stuff. But for you to attempt it will more than likely end in ruined speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 266 Registered: Dec-03 | Anon is right. You must be prepared to toss the driver in the scrap heap if the mod fails (my buddies have recently destroyed 4 drivers I sold them to play with). The mods are generally for mid-range or full-range drivers. It's possible an older paper cone woofer would benefit from the cone treatment. If you decide to go ahead just leave the driver mounted and brush the treatment on the front side. |
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Bronze Member Username: DuckmanxPost Number: 40 Registered: Mar-05 | Yeah, i am aware of the risks and want to learn this and other things. the sony woofers are made pretty cheaply anyways. I may just do one layer on the front. I can only find mod podge here in Canada and was wondering how thin should the first layer be? I plan on thinning the paste with water (the solution is water soluable). I've heard of two that have benefitted from this exact mod on this exact speaker. I'll try his on an old paper coned full range speaker first though, just so I get the right consistency. now the speaker I am talking about has those ridges on the outside of the cone, would I put the podge solution on them as well, or just the smooth flat area of the cone? Thanks Tim. PS: I used to take risks with computers too, I've wet sanded CPU's till I almost hit silicon  Risks are to be taken for me to learn sometime. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 272 Registered: Dec-03 | Well alright then! Go for it! Thin down the Modge Podge so you can get a smooth, thin coat. Let us know what you're results are. If you're the kind that likes this sort of thing you may be an audio DIYer. You may want to visit: My buddy Planet10 from Victoria can be found there. |
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Bronze Member Username: DuckmanxPost Number: 41 Registered: Mar-05 | Timn8ter, Thanks for the support... I am kind of an everything DIY'er. Could you tell me whether or not I would coat those outer circular grooves on the driver as well as the cone, there are about seven rings that bubble out (other than the foam surround). Or should I just coat the flat areas? Heres a pic of the driver... http://www.kimchicity.co.kr/admin/data/product/m20031106173237_21120724283 Cheers, Duck |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 280 Registered: Dec-03 | Yep, rings too. That's a Sony huh? Looks like Pioneer but who knows...so many companies share parts. |
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