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Bronze Member Username: TwochordcoolPost Number: 12 Registered: Jun-05 | I want to buy 3 pairs of bookshelfs for a variety of music and 6.1 home theater for an average sized room. I DO NOT have a specialty hi-fi shop anywhere near me. So I am forced to purchase speakers based on reviews, advice and specs - and I feel comfortable with doing that - I think I can gather enough information and not make a bad choice. I know most of you guys are against this idea but I almost have to. So, one last time, I'd like everyones opinion on what they think the best speakers are on my list - and if they recommend another speaker that is not on my list. I'm willing to spend about $400 per pair. But then again, after I spend a small fortune on speaker stands, I'd wonder if I should have just went with decent entry-level floor standers! Here is my list: Now Hear This! SB-2 -- 51Hz to 22kHz 86db 150 Watts Now Hear This! SB-3 -- 39Hz- 22kHz 175 Watts 86db??? Paradigm Atom -- 70Hz to 20Khz 86 db 80 Watts Paradigm Titan -- 60Hz to 20kHz 86 db 100 Watts Paradigm Mini Monitor 56Hz to 20kHz 87 db 100 Watts Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 - 69Hz to 20kHz 89db 200 Watts Axiom M3ti -- 60 to 22kHz 88 db 175 Watts Axiom M22ti -- 60Hz to 22kHz 89db 200 Watts Energy C-3 -- 46Hz to 23kHz 89db 125 Watts |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 210 Registered: Dec-03 | You forgot one. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue20/alegrialing.htm |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 14 Registered: Jun-05 | The problem that you're going to find is that just about anyone on here will have some personal bias. I personally am biased towards the Energy C-3s, since I have a pair. I think they offer great performance for a bookshelf - neutral, clear midrange and highs, good bass response (as the specs would indicate) and great imaging (a point made in most of the professional reviews on them). But you'll get enthusiastic responses from others on the Axioms, Ascends and Paradigms. I have never seen mention of the Now Hear This line on this forum before. Good Luck! |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 163 Registered: May-05 | Ziggy - Now Hear This! is the full name for NHT. I wish I could help you out Tim, but I've only heard one of the NHT's (can't remember which) and the Paradigm Mini Monitors. I liked the Paradigms a little better. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1015 Registered: Feb-05 | Actually I have owned both NHT's and the Mini's. I sold the NHT's when I bought the Mini's. The NHT's are very transparent and have a great sounstage. They required more power than I could give them at the time. They also lacked the detail of the Mini's. In contrast the Mini's were more efficient and detailed but also had a boxier sound. In the end I opted for the Mini's because I felt that I was just missing too much of the music with NHT's. With better electronics the result may have been different. |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 15 Registered: Jun-05 | Thanks Stu.. I never knew that. I still have no experience with the NHT bookshelves, so I can't help there. I can only say that for floorstanders with built-in powered subs I prefer DefTech to NHT. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 165 Registered: May-05 | Ziggy - DefTech's are great speakers. I don't know why people don't discuss them more. Speaking of which... If you are going to buy a sub and are looking to keeping costs down, Definitive Technologies makes a book shelf speaker with an 8" powered subwoofer built in. It seems like a gimic thing, but they sound great. A pair of those, a DefTech center channel and a few cheaper surrounds may all fit within your budget. Just some food for thought. |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 16 Registered: Jun-05 | Stu, the bipolar design of the DefTech floorstanders are definitely a "love it or hate it" kinda thing. I was never a big fan of the earlier models (BP8, BP10), but I love the new BP7000 series. I have a pair of the BP7002s (and related center/surround speakers) sitting in their boxes until I can finish construction of my basement theater. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 168 Registered: May-05 | Let us know how that sounds when you're done. It should be interesting. A large part of how they sound - or any speaker for that matter, esp. bipolars - is the room and placement. If you've heard the powered monitors (PM-?), what did you think? |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 18 Registered: Jun-05 | I haven't listened to them... from the components I have listed in my profile for that room, you can tell I was going big all the way. I can't wait to get everything set up myself... I'm hoping to have everything completed in 3-4 weeks. We just need to finish tiling the bar area, prime/paint, install trim, and have carpet installed and we're done. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 174 Registered: Apr-04 | I had the Axiom M50Ti floorstanders a couple weeks ago but sent them back. The M3Ti has the same 6.5" aluminum woofer and 1" titanium tweeter. I thought the midrange was colored...the same sound you get when you tap on the woofer with your finger. I've read some REALLY great reviews of the M3Ti though so myabe it's just me. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 172 Registered: May-05 | Sounds great Ziggy. One thing you may want to add is a urinal in the bathroom. Adam and Jimmy would be proud. |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 20 Registered: Jun-05 | The thought did cross my mind. But we kept the bathroom down there pretty small so it would have been either a urinal or a toilet, but not both. And that wouldn't have gone over too well with the Mrs. And before you start, Paul, I got everything I wanted on the A/V side... it was a small concession to make for that freedom. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 178 Registered: May-05 | Good use of the Paul disclaimer. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzAnn Arbor, Michigan USA Post Number: 177 Registered: Apr-04 | Geez, Don't want to step on ANY sensitive toes on this site. |
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Bronze Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 55 Registered: Jun-05 | You Defenitive also makes a foward radiating powertower the Pro 400s they are pretty good,I will tell you what you really have to respect Definitive for using all the same drivers in every one of their speakers.Its bad that they get so much bad press in the high end mags they really are a very good speaker company,especially the way most companies use all these cheaper drivers in their lower line speakers but Definitive does not,very good company especially considering they are avery big company i like the way they dont dilute thier cheaper speakers the way most companies do |
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Bronze Member Username: ZiggyzoggyoioiOutside Philadelphia, PA Post Number: 25 Registered: Jun-05 | I never even knew they got bad press in the high-end mags; that's how relevant their opinion is to me. I auditioned against B&W, Paradigm, Snell, Totem, MartinLogan, Canton and a few others, and for my application the DefTechs are perfect. I like the Totem Forests (and higher models) and various MLs better for music, but the DefTechs do a better job for HT while remaining quite capable for music. And when you factor in the cost of adding a sub to any of the other speakers, they're really "a bargain." That term is used loosely, of course, when discussing $2200/pr speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 66 Registered: Jun-05 | Well I think its because its bi-polar and the powered sub,audiophiles tend to like a if it aint broke dont fix aproach.I dont think anything can beat them HT,but 2 channel is another mater. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1080 Registered: Mar-05 | Rick, > Geez, Don't want to step on ANY sensitive toes on this site. Aw what the hell, stomp away! They'll only grow back LESS sensitive...isn't that what evolution is all about? Think of it as you doing the gene pool a favor. Ten million years from now Rick, somebody might look back and say, "Thank goodnesss for that guy Zmiejko on that wacky Internet forum, otherwise we'd have a whole race of cringing little porcelain-toed ones!" ; ) |
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Silver Member Username: DonaldekellyWashington, DC Usa Post Number: 193 Registered: Jul-04 | I think I said all this on the last thread you started, but here it is again in case it helps: The ones I have heard: Paradigm Atom -- Seemed much like the Titan without the bass. In the showroom I liked the Titans better and bought them. Paradigm Titan -- BIG bass hump - grew tiresome after a while. Sold them. Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 - very nice, needs a sub, not as tipped up high end as Axiom M22s. Axiom M3ti -- nice, I like the detail of the axiom M22s better. Think I would choose the Ascend 170 over these M3s. Returned them to Axiom for the M22s. Axiom M22ti -- in my living room - very nice, more accented high frequencies - something you will get used to and like probably, seem similar to the ascend 170s except for this high end accent. The 170s at first seemed to lack high end detail cause I was used to the M22s. Now I am used to both and like both. |
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Silver Member Username: DonaldekellyWashington, DC Usa Post Number: 194 Registered: Jul-04 | Posted by Stu Pitt: "Good use of the Paul disclaimer." Funniest thing I have read all week! |
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Silver Member Username: DonaldekellyWashington, DC Usa Post Number: 195 Registered: Jul-04 | I went around and auditioned speakers about 7 years ago. First stop the nearby electronics store. Mostly carried Bose and Polk from what I remember. Bose sounded better in my price range (about $300). Bought the Bose from Circuit City and returned them a week later as it didn't sound any better than my 15+ year old torn Scott speakers!!! Next went to a hi-fi store about 1 hour away and listened to all the Paradigms I thought I could afford. Ended up with Titans. Not bad, but the exaggerated bass turned me off after a while. Sold them (years later). Came here and saw a lot of rave reveiws of Axioms. Ordered some M3s. Nice. Based on the talk on the Axiom list, I ordered the M22s as people liked them better than the M3s. Very nice. Recently bought some used Ascends based on reveiws here and elsewhere (including the Axiom boards). Very nice. When I used my ears I ended up with Bose and distorted Paradigms. When I used places like this to gather information I ended up better off. Not that my ears are not the final judge of what I like, it is just that I was such a noobie I was suckered in by exaggerated bass, I guess. Maybe now I could actually go to a speaker store and tell better what I like. I plan to listen some more when I have time, even bringing my Ascends along to compare. I know - almost everyone says you have to listen and do a lot of comparing to really know what you have and what you like. I am just saying that sometimes the reviews and the talk on threads like this one are just as important for a noobie. Good luck on your purchase, Timothy. |
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Anonymous | If it makes you feel any better Don, I couldn't tell much of a difference between my $50 computer speakers and a bonafide hi-fi system once upon a time. Now I of course realize they have no highs, bloated bass, and sound like crap. Live and learn. Then get luvs. (diaper commercial) |
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Silver Member Username: DonaldekellyWashington, DC Usa Post Number: 196 Registered: Jul-04 | Thanks. I feel no shame in buying Bose back in the day. I did return them pretty quick. I was surprised they didn't sound that good. Must have been a good source in the stereo store. Are you the anonymous that was trying so hard to convince me to get out and listen to more speakers? If so, I guess your point was taken. Not that reviews and websites are not very helpful, but I am willing to go listen a little and get an earful of data that way as well, now. I do think Timothy can do alright by himself without hearing, though. But, he has to "fly blind." I think if I were him I might check out the Energy C3 if the price was good, if not maybe the Ascend 170. But, of course, I don't have his ears or audiotory nerves or cerebral whatever it is that processes music. That is just me. The energy c3 might have the clarity of the ascend and more good bass. I will try to listen to some tomorrow, and maybe some more paradigms as well. The Titans were designed to be that bassy - so people like me that weren't going to buy a sub would be happy, I guess. |
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Anonymous | Yes I'm one and the same. If you believe all the rumors the Bose speakers in the store are attached to $30,000 worth of equipment and are in million dollar sound booths, etc. I'll stick with another explanation. Dr. Bose knew what he was doing when it came to psychoacoustical research and crafted a speaker that a lot of people think sounds great, but when listened to critically, has a lot of holes. As for Tim, with the group of speakers he is being given to look into, its hard to go wrong. But, you never can tell. Either way, enjoy the weekend. |
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Silver Member Username: DonaldekellyWashington, DC Usa Post Number: 199 Registered: Jul-04 | Thanks Anon I did listen to some more Paradigms yesterday. I didn't bring my ascends or axioms in to compare. I did need to bring my 2 year old daughter. She kept yelling about wanting to watch all their big screen tvs! The Paradigm studio 20s ($800) didn't sound distincly better than my Ascends or Axioms - but I did not a/b them, and I had to wait about 2 hours to go home and play the same cds on the system at home. The paradigm 20s sounded kind of sibilant - but I was playing Styx (remastered) and some Journey. Particualrly Styx would sound sibilant easily on a lot of speakers. Their paradigms were hooked up to a Rotel cd player and a Rotel amplifier (or receiver-I didn't check carefully). So, considering the source, maybe it was a good comparison of speakers. My home Pioneer/Onkyo setup matched up well through the Axioms and Ascends. Also, I listened to some of the more expensive floorstanding Paradigms. They sounded less balanced than the studio monitor 20 (or whatever it is called - the small one in the reference line) - but maybe I am just used to bookshelf speakers at this point. Also, the 20s sounded distincly better than the Titans - as they should. They only had KEF, Klipsch, Paradigm and a few other brands. But Paradigm seems to be well respected and most reviews of the 20s are glowing, so it was the comparison I wanted to make. Not a very thorough comparison, but satisfying none the less for me. My daughter didn't like any of them! But she does like Styx. She loved the $10,000 flat screen tvs. They had five different ones (about $3,000-$10,000) on the wall and she was happy to sit in the chair by them and watch nature scenes. |