I would go with the Naim. I played around with this before recently upgrading my NAD stuff and came real close to getting this. It is wonderful BUT not powerful enough for me since I have a big room and a vast need of strong power. There is only a minor difference in sound to what I have now after comparing both at home but the Naim would strain a little in my room.
The Musical Fidelity I tried at a store in Montreal and found it very good but lacking bass. Cyrus was equally good but lacking the mid range I am used to.
To each his own here but no doubt 3 great systems. Choose the Naim if you are into a variety of music types as they are great with classical to rock. Or maybe you could try like me and buy 2 C272's and a C162 pre and vertically bi-amp your speakers for about the same price.
The Naim is certainly a good choice. Of the two Cyrus options I wouldn't bother listening to the 6's. The 8's are so much better it's not funny, and they compete strongly against Naim. With Naim you get a free interconnect, but you should really use it with Naim speaker cable for best results. With Cyrus, you can choose any interconnect you like, Cyrus make their own and this suits very well. As to speaker cable, the Closest in philosophy is the DNM reson cable. DNM make Cyrus's interconnect.
Musical Fidelity make kit which majors on the technical aspects of presentation - soundstage, air, space. Naim majors on pace rhythm and timing (PR&T). Cyrus is somewhere in between and can be tweaked with cabling since it's a characterless sound (where both the Naim and MF have definite character about them).
The Naim has less power than the other amps, but it swings a lot of current so it's deceptively powerful. It's only when playing in large rooms or with difficult loads (such as ATC for example) that the Naim may struggle. The others are more powerful on paper, but you may find that you play them at a similar place on the volume dial as the Naim in a demo! The Cyrus is the most upgradeable system since you can add PSX-R power supplies to CD player and amp, giving massive benefits in fidelity and PR&T. You can also upgrade the CD player with the Q DAC module which also gives big gains. If you believe you will want to go the upgrade path in future, either be prepared to have to swap out your MF/Naim or go with the Cyrus. However, in the final analysis you should go for the system you like the sound of most. Feature-wise there's little to choose between the three.
My personal choice? Naim followed by Cyrus followed by MF.
Regards, Frank. All are good bits of kit and the choice is to you.
I'm not sure if I'll upgrade, as I've already doubled my in initial hi-fi budget, I think I'll go with the Naim gear. If I decide to upgrade later (which I doubt in the next 4-8 years), from what I have heard, secondhand Naim gear sells well & quickly.
I think the Cyrus 8's is nice gear but it is also approx 20% more expensive than Naim and the budget has to stop somewhere.
Enjoy your system. You don't mention what speakers you'll be using, nor what size room. If you need help with that too, feel free to ask. I have quite a bit of experience with Naim's kit.
I suppose the size of the room the Naim will be in is about a medium sized room. Its a open plan apartment with 9ft ceilings with dining, kitchen and living room.
I've auditioned the Naim gear with Quad speakers, my Naim dealer is a Quad dealer and they seem like a really good match. Firstly I tried the 11L's and then moved onto the 12L's which I much preferred. I've demoed a few other brands (however not with the Nait 5i) such as B&W, Dynaaudio & Acoustic Energy none of which I was overly fussed with and much more expensive than the Quads. I think the Quads are great value for money and to me sound great.
I'm not a great fan of the Quads, although the 12 is miles better than the 22. The 11 leaves me a little cold. Shame, since they're beautifully made...
Totem Acoustics speakers match well - the Arro is a particularly strong combination with your Naim duo.
For a very different experience, but perhaps a little rich for your blood, Naim's new entry level nSat is a fantastic speaker. Again it's a little lean, but it is huge fun and I always get great results with it. The nSat needs to be stood on the dedicated Naim stand since it has a special mounting unique to Naim which decouples the speaker as much as possible from its stand. The speaker also needs wall reinforcement so it likes to be placed against a rear wall or as near to as possible in order to boost bass a little. It should not be toed in. The speakers are lightning fast with no cabinet colouration to speak of since they are sealed units.
I see that you don't like Dynaudios particularly. I'm not sure on cost where you are but the Dynaudio 52 and 52SE are another very good combination with your electronics.
If you're on the American side of the Atlantic, then the Totems which hail from Canada will be the best value for money. They don't look like much but the craftsmanship is hidden in the cabinetry which is put together in a far more complex way than most speaker cabinets, being completely lock mitred.
Of all, I'd choose the Naim nSats, but that's not including the money in the equation...
I'm located in Brisbane Australia and the Dynaudio 52 & 52SE are $2100 AUD and $2600 AUD respectively. As a comparison the Quad 12L's are $1500 AUD. I've had a look and listen to the Naim Arivas and I've got to say I was impressed, they go for $3800 here but I could get a pair (floor stock) through my Naim dealer for $3000. Lovely speakers just a bit to big for my apartment.
I'm heading back to the dealer tomorrow and I'll ask about the nSats, I suspect they will be in the $2200 to $2700 price range, which will mean they'd have to be a lot better then the 12L's to warrant the extra cost. This is where I feel the Quads are good value as the next level up in quality raises the price to around $2500 to $3500 and I can always trade up if I feel the Quads aren't working for me.
Well i havent heard the Cyrus gear but ihave been reading about them for the last 10 years.Are you in the UK? But i can tell you about the other gear I have the whole X-ray setup one good thing about all of them have the ability to upgrade in some way.Im abig fan of Naim I love their pace and speed and over the last couple of years they have improved their detail and soundstaging and they are pretty easy to mate speakers with.But when the tube buffer,power supply,and the dac is added the x- ray stuff goes to another level where it has no buisness being it will worry a whole lot expensive big high end names.But it is allabout synergy with x-rays you have to have the right speaker.What kind of sound do you prefer?You might also want try the Moons they are very warm but still very fast and detailed a real good buy.
I suspect the nSats will be closer to the Ariva price than further! Sorry about that. I certainly get where you're coming from on that score. I guess Totems are big money too. Pity. I wonder if there are any Asian speakers that could fill the post. We rarely hear of decent speakers from that part of the world. The only one that comes to mind is the Aurum Cantus, although I have not heard it myself.
Well,Frank there is most of these guys think its a joke when i bring up aasian speaker but they are being completely ignorant to fact that most speakers are actually built in China.Like SDAT they are selling thier speakers really cheap so they can get into the american market.And probably Usher and Califex the two most well known brands to the rest of the world.
Quads are made in Malaysia I believe as are Acoustic Energy, but I'm guessing there must be other brands that are homegrown in China, rather than exported Brit or US brands, such as Aurum.
There is a lot of resistance to goods made in Asia here in the UK. It's as if the Asian continent can't learn how to make things properly! You'd have thought people would have learned the lesson after the Japanese took over the car, photography and volume HiFi markets from the rest of the world!
Quad have apparently got a brand new factory in China. Very state of the art with British engineers overlooking R&D, design & manufacture. Unfortunately this is the way of the future as there will be more & more chinese/asian hi-fi products coming in at very cheap prices.
The only way to control quality and intellectual property, and not have products knocked off, is to set up and build a factory as Quad have and take them on at their own game.
John I believe you are right and also I think it is the same one where Wharfedale have their stuff built as well being that they are involved in the same coorperation.
There is an advantage to this as they have all their products built in Britain and then put together over seas. This may take away good jobs but decreases costs about 40% thus giving the customer a better speaker for cheaper price. Quality control is supposed to be top notch. Most hi end companies are also getting on board ie. Musical Fidelity, NAD etc.....
Well most of thier designers even their homegrown companies have american,brtish,and german ceos and stuff like that.They are as likely to build a speaker as good as B&W,look at Usher they build some of the best sounding speakers in the world and build quality to die for,and Califex a horn speaker thats probably better than any Klipsch or JBL.So they do know what they are doing,I trust them when it comes to speakers.Jungson a amp and speaker company Iowned a pair of their speakers the buid and sound on them were very good they looked just like the Sonus Faber Ceromonas they weighed 70 pounds apiece and rumor they have been building Krells amps,they are internationally known for their amps.
Danman, I also beleive you are correct. I got some Wharfdale speaker stands for my Quads as they where all tied in through the same company/factory & hi-fi store. Infact the Quad L series brochure used Wharfdale speaker stands throughout.
p.s. Guys I made a decision. Bought a Naim Nait 5i & CD5i combination with Quad 12L speakers & Wharfdale speaker stands.
Wharfedale owns Quad,but its deeper than that the two guys that started both companies were very good friends and they done a lot of work and designs together they have always had ties with each other for over 40 years.
You have to do more than that - after it's arrived you've got to wait for it to warm up and run in! Naim takes quite some time to run in (minimum two weeks). At first it will sound bass light, bright and disjointed. Then it will slowly warm up and give you better control and integration. Then it will go 'off' again before it settles down completely. it's best if you do not switch it off and in the first couple of weeks, leave the CD player on Repeat all the time to run both it and the amp in, even if you play at low volume. It will help.
Once,the run in time is over,"Boom"you you've got one of the most musical set ups this of $10'000,now thats a real sound achievement there.John welcome to the sound of Hi End,Great Job could've done a better job myself.
Thanks for the positive comments and the words of advice. I'm picking up the system hopefully today. Naim distributor was doing stocktake so I had to wait a couple of days until they where prepared to ship.
Don't worry, I won't turn the amp off & I'd say it will be constantly on at home, so run in time should go by quickly.
This has really reivigorated my music tastes, and I've been out buying new cds & records to play on the new system.
I post some of my initial thoughts on the system tonight.
Cant wait to hear them,My dad is a big Quad L series fan I dont think he will be able to afford the Naim gear although he is thinking about Jolida which I must admit is Quite staggering for the money so this will be real interesting.
I'm back! Got to say the Naim Niat 5i/5CDi/Quad12L combo is better than expected.
I think I'm in one of those rare situations that it actually sounds better at home than at the dealers! The first thing I noticed is that the base is bigger than demoed. I've experimented with speaker positioning with very little change in base dynamics.
Not that I'm complaining, in fact I'm impressed that such a speaker has such great clean base. I remember auditioning the Arivias just before I bought the 12L's and thought these are great speakers, just like the 12L's, but with more base. Now I must admit, I think if I'd bought the Arivas they could a perhaps have had to much base for my room.
The Naim gear certainly has a very musical sound to it, nice and warm, but with a drive and passion that sends tingles down your spine, and makes you rush for the next cd or record to play.
For a system that is barely played and needs running in, I can highly recommend this set-up. The fact that things are only going to get better is truly impressive.
Thanks for all your advice and tips. See you around the forums.
Glad to see you are enjoying it,Its only gonna get better.One thing the Quads have even deeper bass,wait until those Kevlar drivers loosen up its gonna take about 250 for them to fully lose that restrain in the bass,after that the bass power will really shock you.Moving them around trying to find the best position for them really will be needed with that extra bass power.Enjoy!
I am quite used to Quad as they are a sister company of Wharfedale and both companies integrate their technology and drivers to help consumers save money. You have a nice setup here and it will not let you down. As Tawaun said, it will only get better with age. Enjoy
In their day, about 3 years ago or so, Tag McLaren Audio were THE people to beat in the surround sound processor field. They also made two superb DVD transports, so good that they were even excellent for music.
Their power amps were OK but no great shakes and their 2-channel amps were again OK but no great shakes - very clean sound but a little clinical and no particular guts in the bass. That said, what really let the side down was their speakers. These all-metal items were a travesty as far as I was concerned - all of them (they had a couple of models).
Originally, Tag McLaren Audio was setup when Tag McLaren bought audiolab which had been ready for buying for some time. The original aims for Tag McLaren had been stratospheric with three lines envisaged - F3, F2 and F1 in ascending order of fidelity. The F3 stuff was basically reworked audiolab product. We saw a few mockups of F1 amplifiers and the F1 speakers made light of day. As I said before the speakers didn't work (for me at least). The processor was stunning and very good value even though it was expensive. The power amps should have been better.
Unfortunately, things went downhill after a couple of years and TAG McLaren sold off Tag McLaren Audio's intellectual property to IAG - but not the name! IAG will be introducing audiolab back to the world with TMA technology in it. I'm willing to bet that the surround processors will be up there with the best since the old processors were considered to be 2 years ahead of the game up until the Arcam AV8 turned up. The AV8 was about as good as the middle of the range TMA processor for similar money and has been around for 3 years now and is still one of the leaders in the field for sound fidelity. The top of the range TMA processor at minimum twice the price (lots of options) was really good! I'm hoping they've reworked the power amps to give them some grunt. I assume they'll be made in China, so we should be getting Chinese low cost of manufacture allied with TMA technology. If this is true, they will be a force to be reckoned with.