Help - Purchased new system - Should I keep it? Or exchange?
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Anonymous | I just bought Denon AVR 1905 with Definitive Mythos Four Speakers. This system is primarily to listen to music - but also HT. I spent about $3500. Should I keep it or is there a better system in my (low) price range? |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 966 Registered: Mar-05 | I'm not familiar with those speakers but if I had $3500 to play with I'd spend $1500-$2000 on separates and THEN worry about speakers. A $500 receiver cannot possibly do justice to $3000 worth of speakers IMHO. |
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Silver Member Username: EdisonGlendale, CA US Post Number: 681 Registered: Dec-03 | I agree with Eds. If music is your primary, I personally would get the best 2-channel system - movies sound ok too. I would return them and start over. You will end up with more quality, and your ears will thank you. If you don't mind used, I would shop at www.audiogon.com or www.audioweb.com - you will end up with more quality, and you can resell the items as you upgrade, or decide you don't like an item, without losing too much. Go slow and research - and you can end up with gooood music at home ! Considerably better than your present system. You can get something like Krell Kav-300 integrated amp used for under a grand. Mate it with Toshiba sd9200 dvd. Many good speakers to chose from for $2000 used ... Try to hear these : Paradigm PSB Green mountain Kef 107 (old one) B&W 801 matrix (old one) The Krell will give you more of an upscale feel to your system. Spend about 10% on cables to hook them all up - will reward. Go slow and spend a few weeks, at least, hearing many systems, and reading professional reviews - hear is a good place to start. www.hifichoice.co.uk You can also get magazines like what hifi, stereophile, etc and read on the buyer's guide. Also chat alive on www.audioasylum.com before making final decisions. www.audiogon.com has also good discussion forum - for asking questions. You can do better than your Denon - go slow, research, listen to many systems, and ask experts (not salesman) at audioasylum - and you will be all set to pick out a satisfying sound at home. Welcome to this exciting hobby... |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 918 Registered: Feb-05 | James' advice is sound. I would only add that if you are uncomfortable with used gear there are a number of other alternatives such as Rotel and NAD which offer great sound and value at a reasonable cost. I would also add that the speakers James listed above are good ones but there are literally dozens of very good speaker lines out there so keep an open mind. If you decide to go used Krell is a good name and so is Musical Fidelity, Creek, Rogue and many others. good luck. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1380 Registered: Jan-05 | Why on earth would someone who just spent $3500 on a new system be asking this question?? PS... Hey everybody, as some of you know, I recently bought a new receiver too. Should I keep it or buy a new one?? HEH.. |
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Anonymous | Thanks Paul -- Very helpful..... |
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Anonymous | Thanks James, Art and Edster - I appreciate your advice. I am now returning the hasty purchase I made. I am considering Paradigm speakers - maybe the Monitor 9 or Studio 60. Not to sure about the rest yet.... |
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Anonymous | Thanks James, Art and Edster - I appreciate your advice. I am now returning the hasty purchase I made. I am considering Paradigm speakers - maybe the Monitor 9 or Studio 60. Not sure about the rest yet.... |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 867 Registered: Feb-04 | If I were spending $3500, I would not be spending it on seperates. That requires a bigger budget. But I would get something better than a Denon 1905. Edster wrote: A $500 receiver cannot possibly do justice to $3000 worth of speakers IMHO. That's not a fact, but a matter of opinion. I have a refurb h/k avr-325 receiver that cost me about US$500 or less, yet I'm running more than $3000 worth of speakers. Sounds incredible. It might get better with $1500 spent more on amplification, but not the expense of $1500 less on speakers. But that's not a fact; it's my opinion. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 949 Registered: Feb-05 | Ahh but Peter how much better would those classic Klipsch speakers sound with a good tube setup. Think about it. I'll bet it would sound fabulous. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 869 Registered: Feb-04 | Perhaps Art, perhaps. But my point is that they already good fabulous with an h/k receiver. I think they sound better than my cheaper speakers would with a better amp (for a similar total price). |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1011 Registered: Mar-05 | Peter, do you not know what IMHO stands for? (scratches head) |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 954 Registered: Feb-05 | I believe you Peter but my point is that you aren't getting from those marvelous speakers all that you can. Neither am I from mine, but you are in a unique situation. Your speakers are considerably more efficient than nearly anything else on the market except other horn loaded designs. Meaning that you get a lot more from less current than most folks. Most folks need more current which equals more dollars to get more from their speakers. Their spending ratio may have to look different than yours because of that, wouldn't you agree. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1412 Registered: Jan-05 | Sure, he wont get everything out of $3000 speakers driven by a $500 amp, but I'll bet you that setup will still sound a lot better than a $3000 amp driving $500 speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 1020 Registered: Mar-05 | Three months ago I would've agreed with you Paul, but after my NAD experience I'm not sure about that anymore. I have come around to Jan's approach of putting amplification first, speakers second. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1416 Registered: Jan-05 | Ok, In that case, you should $5K for a YammiZ9, and then run a pair of crappy speakers for best effect. HEH |
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Bronze Member Username: BunnyBig D, Texas Post Number: 20 Registered: May-05 | Anonymous, I would have to agree with edster, if music is your priority you owe it to yourself to look into separates, my first set up consisted of a P.E. VSX53 driving a 5.1 system and it sounded pretty good but when I added a pre-amp and two amps (as mono-blocks) the improvement of the sound was unreal. It is a whole new experience, not only you get more power but the sound is superb. This is just my experience, I respect everyone's opinion as they are all valid (except Paul's) but, if at all possible, give this option a chance, you will not regret it. Peter is right though, getting into separates can get pretty expensive but in my case it was well worth every penny. Just My two cents guys. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 872 Registered: Feb-04 | Edster, sorry about that. I read too quickly. Art, it's true that I don't need as many watts but still like a receiver that can push low impedences. That's why I picked the h/k. Like Paul said, in my opinion I have better sound doing this than the reverse of pushing $500 speakers with a multi-thousand dollar amplifier. I had a friend from Quebec City (who is also into audio) come over this last weekend, and he was very impressed with the sound. The soundstage and imaging is very good, the bass is quick and natural (a drum punches like a drum yet isn't boomy; all percussions sound real) and he commented that voices sounded lifelike. I could go on, but what's the point... you can't hear it. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1426 Registered: Jan-05 | So you're telling me that your amp makes $500 speakers sound better than $3000 speakers driven by a $500 amp???? Puhleaaase...... I agree that you wont get 100% from those speakers with an average amp, but to say that cheapo speakers will sound better is a flat out lie. Yea suuuuuure, Im sure that a $250 speaker will easily outperform a $1500 speaker. You are so full of crap that I can smell it from over here. HEH |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 874 Registered: Feb-04 | Paul, who are you addressing? I was agreeing with you that my $500 amp + multi-thousand dollar speakers sound better than $500 speakers pushed by a multi-thousand dollar amp. |
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Silver Member Username: Stealth_cDublin, CA USA Post Number: 245 Registered: Jan-05 | I would tend to agree with Peter & Paul on this one, although it is highly dependant upon the speaker/amp combo in question. $500 can bring home a fairly decent amplifier/receiver, but few if any "hi-fi" full range speakers or bookshelf/sub combos. However, as I said in a prior post I would rather have a pair of large advents (~$100) and a strong amplifier over a pair of expensive sony's and a weak amplifier. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1432 Registered: Jan-05 | My point is that quality $3000 pair of speakers will smoke comperable pair of $500 speakers even if the cheap speakers have a better power supply. Yes, an expensive amp will get 100% from a $500 pair, and an 'average' amp will not get 100% from a $3000 pair, but the $3000 pair will still sound better than the former............regardless. To suggest otherwise is a folly. No $250 speaker will magically sound better than a comperal style speaker costing 6 times more. To compare would be apples to oranges. I realize that some on this forum will undoubtedly search high and low for an exception to prove me wrong, but my statement is meant in general terms. In general, a $3000 pair of fronts will 'smoke' a $500 pair, even if the sheaper speakers has a better power supply. And please......I dont need anyone to respond with "But, what if you power the $3000 pair with a $10 power supply?? The expensive speakers would sound worse then, wouldnt they?" That's not what I'm talking about, and you all know that. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1433 Registered: Jan-05 | Peter, Yes, I misunderstood your comment, and I do agree with you 100%. With that being cleared up, lets just say I was expanding on my disagreement with Eddies response  In the end, the speakers create the soundwaves, and the better speakers will win. |
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Silver Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 877 Registered: Feb-04 | Okay, so we agree to disagree with Edster. :-) I realise that my speakers would not sound as good with a $5 amplifier and might sound better with more expensive gear. But I have an old Nikko Alpha 220 power amplifier (not longer made, it made the professionnal series by Nikko Audio. It's a 30 lbs power amp with 2X120W into 8 ohms and 240Wx2 into 4 ohms, and appears to use a toroidal transformer about 5 inches in diameter). I also have a Carver M4.0t power amplifier on long term loan. I can hear slight differences when I plug them into the main pre-outs of the h/k receiver, but nothing major. I do hear a big difference when I use either my 10 year-old (then $400 a pair) Nuances (large) bookself speakers, my 10 year-old (then $1000 a pair) Nuances floorstanders, my Klipsch La Scala or Klipshorns. Big differences. The Klipschorns smokes all the others and the difference is anything but subtle (well, but as large against the La Scala but still significant). So that where I get my impression that money on the speakers makes the most difference. |
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