Archive through June 02, 2005
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 603 Registered: Feb-04 | And the hero to many air guitarists, Eddie Van Halen. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 604 Registered: Feb-04 | Oops, Kegger did include Eddie on his original list. |
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Silver Member Username: OjophileTake the Eh Train Post Number: 317 Registered: Jun-04 | Django Reinhardt Ritchie Blackmore Steve Morse Paco de Lucia another vote for Terry Kath (the good they die young) and another vote for Al di Meola Larry Coryell |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2441 Registered: Dec-03 | There you go now where rolling, I just think there is no greatest player ever and I believe nothing like this is set in stone, somone can allways come along in any genre and just blow you away with there talent just like the many before them. What because someone before taught someone else the student couldn't turn out to surpass the master? There are so many true masters of the axe out there! Sure there are a bunch of squawking solo only players too but many incredable players out there that most of us have never heard! So I have a problem labeling one as the all mighty! That again is just my 2 cents. ............ .......... ....... .... .. . Larry still working on the list? "I hope your a good sport in this as I mean no disrespect" |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 465 Registered: Mar-04 | Lots of great guitarists, I knew of most from Kegger's list as well as most of those mentioned since then. Didn't see Eric Johnson listed, he probably should be considered as well. Looking into the future, keep an eye open for young Randy McStine, http://www.randymcstine.com/ a young guitar player from my neck of the woods. He's been playing professionally since he was around 11 years old, and when he was barely a teen, he was opening for such acts as Molly Hatchet, Coco Montoya, and Elvin Bishop, among others. Though still just a junior in high school, he regularly appears in many of the New York City music hot spots. As far as my SACD copy of Honky Chateau, whether its an act of God or "the industry intervening" to keep me from doing an A/B comparison, I'l take joy in my freak of a disc, and delight in the fact that I got a two-fer. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1061 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan V. - uh, what is "Megadeth?" Something like a lot of people being killed in an avalanche? Hmm... Kegger: Yep, always a good sport - I know that I'm so far out of the mainstream that I'm on dry land! (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2445 Registered: Dec-03 | Neet little article on the center channel and some suround music stuff! http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/304round/ |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3696 Registered: May-04 | Kegger - I see no one has replied on this thread to your question about the derived center channel. Here's the scoop as I know it. John and I discussed this way back when this thread was still on the surround sound issue. I also made some suggestions to another member on the "Amps" section early this year. The original concept of the derived center channel comes from the 1930's when Bell Labs were doing the early experiments in more than one channel sound reproduction (mostly for the introduction of stereo to movies). At that point in time three channel, with two fronts and a center (sorry, John), was considered the best approach to reproducing the soundstage of a symphony or other large scale productions. The earliest experiments in recording multichannel (and even some mono material) followed this format. As stereo became the accepted consumer format, three channel reproduction was expected with an open reel tape to be used for playback. At about that point, the 45/45 method of stereo reproduction for a disc was accepted and the discrete three channel format was essentially forgotten as a reality for the next 40 years. As two channel stereo became accepted, the desire for a center fill was becoming fashionable. P. Klipsch reintroduced the three channel format with a virtual center for his Horns. By that point, the Horn was big enough and expensive enough to be purchased by owners with very large rooms. (Where was Phil Spector when you needed him?) A Belle Klipsch was the suggested center so there was no need for anything other that a straight connection. The technical papers I have (Dope From Hope) detailing this set up go through the differences when the connection is made between the two +'s and then the two -'s. In the 1970's Quadrophonic arrived, and David Hafler reintroduced the phantom center and phantom surrounds as the circuit for the DynaQuad adapter. A totally passive device, it had provisions for switching the aditional speakers off, adjusting the gain to the rear speaker(s) and manipulating the virtual soundstage by adjusting gain to all speakers. I have a schematic for this circuit also. Though the Hafler circuit was totally passive, it is credited with being the progenitor of Dolby Surround and later Dolby Pro Logic Surround. The Hafler circuit was still popular in the late 1980's as a simple circuit for video playback. If you are trying to derive a center channel for a summed sub, the + to + connection is the best choice. Do not use this connection with any amplifier arrangement that does not share a common ground. Usually a sub will require some attentuation and most often you want to filter the hi pass/low pass to keep the unneeded frequencies out of each specific driver. Here's a link to a 3/5a site which gives a schematic for the sub using the same 4" driver in the "sub" as the 3/5a utilizes. No gain control is used in this circuit, but the low frequency driver has a coil on it and the 3/5a woofer has a cap. http://www.ls35a.com/ To connect to a tube amp, you should use one set of taps only. There are instances where you can use a second tap if the amount of difference in gain will be useful and close to what is required. This gain difference will normally be approx. 3dB. All the taps are connected internally at all times so the speakers will work no matter how the taps are used. But to maintain the best transfer function the transformer is intended to produce, it is best to use only one set of taps at a time. Power will likely decrease slightly overall and distorion will certainly rise somewhat if more than one tap is used. If you would like I will send along the hand drawn schematics I have for the various connections. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3697 Registered: May-04 | Kegger- The article you supplied refers to the different surround mix formats (no center or sub, instead give height channels) to which I have referred previously. These are issues I still have with incorporating HT and surround music systems. The issue of tonal balance also is discussed in relation to a center channel in the article. Actually, I liked the second page better. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2446 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks for the info Jan and I am researching this also for my own learning and find many different ways to wire this. I will be testing all this out myself. Here is another little link with some interesting reading! http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_back_mono_dont/ Also Jan I would love to get whatever info you may have or wish to dig up for me on this subject as I feel a lot of experimenting coming up! From what I've been able to gather so far the ++ method is more for rear ambiance effects but I will test them all and maybe for a sub like you say may provide the best results. someone has mentioned that on the back of a talking heads album brian eno uses the ++ approch for a rear center on all his 2 channel setup listening! very intersting stuff and kinda brings us back to the orignality of this thread! But with maybe a little twist on the 2 channel setup! Sorry John! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2447 Registered: Dec-03 | Well Jan when I read the first article I was refering to the center channel disussion and then leading to the second page I thought you would like that. Also did you notice on the mac preamp the derived center channel output? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3699 Registered: May-04 | YEP! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3700 Registered: May-04 | Larry may remember more, but I know of several vinatge pre amps which supplied a derived center channel output. My, how we have progressed. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3106 Registered: Dec-03 | No apology necessary, Jan and Kegger. I get a precision center-stage source from my current set-up, when playing a mono source. And, in two-channel stereo, there is no central gap in the left-to-right sound stage, ; I can demonstrate that with many sources. So some of the claims I read for a center channel are false. That is all I say. The center channel is used to distort the image on some 5.1 recordings; no question. That is not an argument, I understand that. I'd like a chance to try three-channel stereo from a good recording and a good source. Looks like I'll have to get SACD sometime. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2449 Registered: Dec-03 | What do you think of this one Jan without using the rears? The ST70 I believe should have no problem tying it's grounds together. The negatives of the amp go together and go to the center speaker "my sub" then each positive goes through it's corrosponding left and right speakers and then come together as negatives and go into the centers "my sub" positive. For a 3 speaker setup that should feed all signals to my sub! HUMM.  |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3111 Registered: Dec-03 | Kegger, You may be interested in the old thread 4 channel sound with stereo receiver I am having a tough time understanding that diagram. Is the black rectangle the amp? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1836 Registered: Aug-04 | Well I had to go and play around with my speakers! I swapped the JBL mains with the B&W 602's, played bits and pieces from a dozen or so hi-res discs. What I heard astounded me; these speakers are really something else for their size/price (I think I mentioned that once before). The second set of 602's should arrive tomorrow then the JBL's are going into my audio dealers shop for sale on consignment. Also picked up a nice set of stands at a very good price. I was thinking of saving for a pair of 604's ($3499) but after hearing the 602's ($1199) in front of the surround system, I think it would be overkill for our room, receiver and wallet. When the new B&W's arrive it will be the same brand all around (except the sub) and we will be content with our (audio) lot hereafter. Hopefully. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2450 Registered: Dec-03 | Mr. Rantz yu had to do it aye? Yah before I bought my klipsch RB-35 bookshelves I almost bought a pair of the 602's, very nice looking and sounding speaker. Good listening sir! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3112 Registered: Dec-03 | Congratulations, My Rantz! "Same all round" is the ideal. Also good, directional speakers, which is what you will have. Please write on how it sounds! Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1838 Registered: Aug-04 | Kegger, John Thanks. I had always considered the JBL XTi-60's a good sonic match with the B&W's but replacing them with the 602's up front really opened my eyes (listen and you will see) - they weren't bad but the same sonic match is that much better. My dealer gave me another good deal for the second set of 602's and I am looking forward to hearing them all playing nicely together (especially after after run-in period). I will certainly report my findings then. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2452 Registered: Dec-03 | John checked out your link to the other thread but the diagram is no longer available. But it should be basically like the above curcuit I listed without the center. Anyways I tried the above curcuit without the rears and didn't workout for me. I went with 2 bass drivers, one paralelled on each output with the bookshelves and used the 4 ohm taps from the amp and for now that works fine, until further review. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3113 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Kegger. The Hafler connection, which I learned from the manual of my old amp, connects the Left and Right "+" "Speakers B" terminals of the amp to the "+" terminals of each of the surround speakers, then the two surround speaker "-" terminals are connected to each other. Just as in your diagram. Then the amp's "Speakers A" terminals are connected to front Left and Right speakers, "+" to "+" and "-" to "-" as normal. So you get the complete stereo sound stage from the front, plus the out-of phase sound from the surrounds, behind you. Jan had something to say on that thread about getting a phantom center, too. I still can't quite read your wiring diagram at least at the left side which I think is the front. Sorry to be slow. My faithful old PowerBook has some hardware problem and my diagnostic disc is in our old house. I think it time for an upgrade, anyway, it is five years old and has been in nearly continuous use all that time. But I will still try to get the old one fixed. I think I should be spending less time here, anyway, I think I have sort of run out of thing to say on hifi! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1841 Registered: Aug-04 | John, It seems all the old dogs are spending less time here lately with some notable absentees - maybe we are all running out of steam and/or possibly a little fed up with the influx of idiotic posters who seem intent on turning this forum into trash. Well, we have all the 602's up and running and if I didn't know better I would say music couldn't sound any finer. Especially hi-res surround with the seamless integration of instruments and vocals sounding so real it's almost spooky. We can almost feel the vibration on Monty Alexander's piano when playing the pure DSD recording of 'My America'. This is about as close to audio nirvana we are likely to get and even stereo cd is stunning. And if Mr Abella thinks what we are hearing isn't musical then his head must be full of cotton bleeding wool. (He contends that universal players are about as musical as watching paint dry - this is from a guy that included his BMW on his profile - Christ I'm soooo envious). |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3118 Registered: Dec-03 | My Rantz, Great to read that. These days I find FM analogue gives the stereo sound I like best. Better than Cd from my NAD T533. DAB is heavily promoted here, but the bandwidth is low, I read. I am always interested to try things, however. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3725 Registered: May-04 | Kegger - I'm not certain what didn't work for you in the hookup, but the things to consider are (after determining you have a common ground between amplifier channels) whether you are trying to achieve a sum of the two channels or the difference between the two channels. Also decide whether you want a series or parallel connection. The diagram you've drawn seems to be reversing the phase of the center signal and shouldn't provide much bass when used with two other speakers. Try one of these hookups if you want to experiment more on phantom center channels. 1) The simplest phantom channel is taken from the L and R positives of the amplifier. One channel's + goes to the + of the center and the other channel's + goes to the - of the center. This should give what is considered the "best" connection for a phantom center speaker but creates a parallel connection that will drop the impedance. This also can be a quite ambiguous signal when the source is not simple in its mixing techniques. A failure of the Klipsch and Dyna hookups is the more complex the phase relationships of the individual elements of the signal became, the less the phantom channel fit together with the other channels. A pot (L-pad) can be inserted for level adjustment in the run to the + of the center, but this will affect the impedance even further. After determining the resistance required to balance all three channels, the pot is better replaced by an appropriate value load resistor if possible. 2) The series connection can offer similar results in most cases with the added benefit of the higher impedance as a load to the amplifier. A sum channel for the front center can be made by hooking a single conductor from the + of each amplifier channel to the + of the appropriate front speakers. (Amp left + to left speaker + and amp right + to right speaker +.) Take a single conductor from the - post of each front speaker and tie them together at the + post of the center speaker. Using a two conductor cable, tie one leg each to the L- and R- amplifier posts and then tie both legs together at the - of the center speaker. A trim pot can be inserted in front of the + connection to the center speaker. Both of these connections should provide proper phase overall. When using these connections the amplifier may have a tendency to oscillate so watch for signs of distress until you are sure the amplifier will remain stable into the load. This becomes even more important when using more than one tap per channel on a transformer as the amplifier's feedback loop is normally tied to the output taps and can make the amplifier unstable. The connection you have made with one woofer per channel is the safest from all stand points other than impedance. If you want to combine this down to one woofer, you can use a dual voice coil design. As I pointed out in an earlier post, it is usually beneficial to roll off the upper frequencies of the woofer's response. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3726 Registered: May-04 | John - Maybe you're just running out of steam on stereo and multichannel. Now it's time to discuss mono! Seventy years worth of recordings there. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2453 Registered: Dec-03 | For right now I've left it with the 2 subs wired in paralell with a 6.4 MH coil in series with each sub to filter any highs out and seems to work fine. Thanks for the info Jan and I will at some point here try the single bass driver again. But the curcuit above "without rears" was distorted and no bass to the bookshelves. John: "So you get the complete stereo sound stage from the front, plus the out-of phase sound from the surrounds, behind you. " Yes I see that but that wasn't what I was looking for. I wanted to add 1 speaker that would get the bass from both channels to fill out the low end from both bookshelves. For now the setup I made works fine. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3119 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Kegger. I have obviously not been paying sufficient attention. But I scroll back and it is difficult to find out what you are trying to do. My first reaction is "What is the problem with the standard sub speaker-level connection". Anyway, ignore this if I have missed the point. Perhaps the "center-sub" is a conventional speaker. I think I agree with Jan about the phase. On some subs you can control that separately. WIll be back on mono, Jan. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2454 Registered: Dec-03 | Sorry John didn't mean to make my post sound like I was b!tch!ng! I'm trying to use a raw "driver" no sub really, just a 12" "driver" in a cabinet that is powered by the amp along with the 2 main speakers! That is why at the moment the (2) raw drivers are running in paralel with the bookshelves and all is put on the 4 ohm taps. I want to get down to (1) raw driver in combo with the bookshelves. Hopefully that clears up what I'm trying to do. See yu buddy! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3120 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Kegger. I think I've got it. A raw driver. A passive sub with no crossover? This is making life difficult for yourself! |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2455 Registered: Dec-03 | Your getting warmer John! A passive sub with a 6.4Mh coil in series with it to filter out the highs. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3121 Registered: Dec-03 | On mono: I prefer stereeo. Slight change of tack. Listening to analogue FM stereo, I always wonder what the source is. Everything sounds so good. Live broadcasts. Excellent. I do not know whether these are still analogue all the way through. Some are relayed via satellite. This is probably digital. I honestly cannot tell the difference between real-time and a re-broadcast; the latter is recorded digitally these days, I think. Radio station playing CDs or SACDs. It sounds smoother and less shrill than the sound from some of my own CDs. What is the source? What sort of players do professional use? Do they always choose SACD if it is an option? On FM there is a slight hiss, but it is easy to ignore, and forgive, since the general sound is so good. Earlier today there was a live direct broadcast from The Barbican concert hall, less than 2 miles from where I live, and the transmitter is about 5 miles from both locations. Before that there was another from Gottingen, which must be around 300 to 500 miles away from the transmitter, and probably comes via digital satellite. Sometimes there is "live from the Met" and that is surely via satallite; it is 5,000 miles or so to New York. This question may not get everyone here fired up, but I mention this because it seems to me that digital encoding has no detectable effect in these cases. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3122 Registered: Dec-03 | Crossed posts, Kegger: I did intend to ignore your reply. So you have some kind of crossover? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3123 Registered: Dec-03 | I did NOT intend to ignore your reply, Kegger! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3731 Registered: May-04 | John - With the Quads and the move to London you seem to be finding the best source often will be live FM. Seldom are the same compression techniques required or used when broadcasting live as compared to recording in a studio. This becomes all the more apparent when the recording is being done with an eye to how many channels can be folded, flanged and finagled into the amount of tracks the average studio can employ (96 is not that uncommon today.) Of course, the BBC has always had the enviable reputation of being one of the best broadcast systems in the world. But any area that has the benefit of receiving live FM broadcasts will almost always prefer the sound from the tuner to any other source. Unfortunately Dallas is beset with FM stations that don't justify a decent radio in my car let alone a Mac tube tuner. What are you using for a tuner and an antenna? You can call or email the BBC to find what equipment they use. I believe they used to have all Studer CD players but that was years ago and much has changed in the CD player market for both home and professional. As to mono, you ain't heard nothing yet! Which brings us to; what have you heard in mono? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3124 Registered: Dec-03 | "What are you using for a tuner and an antenna? " The tuner is my late 1970s Armstrong 620 (I think that is the model). It is solid-state. It was my first "real" hifi purchase. My upgrades have been to replace a small pilot light-bulb and, yesterday, tie a reef-knot in the nylon cord that connects the tuning knob with the main variable cap (is it a cap?) and the cursor, behind its glass panel. The cord snapped after I gave a sticky spot on the dial an impatient twirl. The sticky spot came from about 12 years of storage, in one tuning position. It now works just fine. This tuner is not retro; it is the real thing, complete with DIN output socket, a walnut-veneered cabinet. It is my friend! It is a pleasure that it still works so well. The antenna is a two-arm telescopic indoor antenna which came with a Sony TV purchased in the late 1980s. It gives a nice strong signal, at least as good as the various roof antennae I have had installed in various places. But we are only five miles from the main transmitter; Crystal Palace. The same antenna gives poor TV reception. The socket in the wall is connected to some sort of communal roof antenna, which gives better TV but a poor FM radio signal. I intend eventually to get a roof antenna. This would be my fifth, I think. Oh for a settled life. I don't know how it is in the US, but DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting) is being promoted here, and there is even talk of switching off analogue broadcasting completely. I shall object. It will make no difference. HiFi news is fairly scathing about DAB. I must admit I have not heard it. The selling point seems to be more channels, interference-free reception, auto tuning with stored lists etc., and (as if an afterthought) "crystal clear, CD-quality sound". Even the BBC has gone for more channels at the expense of bandwidth for digital radio broadcasting. I think it has 192 kbps for Radio 3 ("classical") and 96 kbps for the others. Formerly, I got good reception via digital satellite. This was after they turned off analogue satellite radio. I had to get a digital receiver; nice features, but could hear no difference in sound quality. Afew years ago they changed transponders to narrow the footprint, as an alternative to paying for encryption services to satisfy "digital rights agreements". This meant we could not get BBC Radio 3 at all for the last few years, disaster. As with the basic issue on this thread, of recording formats, I am sceptical about claims for real progress in sound broadcasting. Analogue FM stereo must be about 40 years old. When it works, and if you are in the right location, it is wonderful. I am not writing off DAB, still less satellite, but it seems these technologies are driven neither by considerations of sound quality nor by increased range of reception - in fact, for satellite, the broadcasters have gone to real trouble to restrict range. That is an "Old Dog" take on sound broadcasting, at least over here. If there is progress, I have yet to hear it for myself. Thanks for the tip. Yes, BBC technical used to be very good. I will ask them, one day. Will be back on mono vs stereo. I think we sort of covered it many archived threads ago. I really enjoy a good stereo sound stage. It helps to be able to resolve individual instruments, voices, etc., in space, as well as timbre. To me, the concerted effect of number of identifiable individuals performing together is the name of the game, in music. Any genre. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1063 Registered: Oct-04 | This could be the end of me! Sigh. Kids (20s) are renting the townhouse adjoining ours, and their "music" is driving us crazy! It's sorta "Disco" music - mostly bass and whompa-wumpa-wumpa-boom. Sigh. I went over and very politely explained my problem, and they DID turn down the music a bit. Went over a second time, and they said they'd watch it. Nope. Here's the problem, chaps - and MAYBE some of you can solve it? The wall between the homes is fairly solid - concrete block sandwiched between studs and insulation and drywall. Now - they claim they NEVER hear our music or movies, even when we turn up the MS 10" subwoofer! And we sometimes run it rather loud for movies! So - why do we hear their bass line, and they don't hear ours? Could it be the way the sound-source is sited? Our subwoofer is on brass points, over carpet, and out from the wall about five inches. I don't know how their speakes are placed, but they say they are on the wall that's on the other side of the room from the "common wall." To top it off - the guy says he's running rather small speakers, and an el-cheapo stereo from Wal-Mart! How embarrassing - to be out-gunned by such gear! (grin) OK - any thoughts on how to damp his nerve-shredding whumpa-wumpa? I'm about to buy some dynamite. . . Aside from that, been very busy with some new CDs of Haydn and some guitar concerto performances. But we just haven't been that "into" our music for weeks now - perhaps we just needed a breather? Or maybe our neighbors have us too upset to do anything but fret. . . Is it some sort of universal edict that the worse the music is, the louder it's played? Hmmm. . . |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1844 Registered: Aug-04 | Larry, Good to see you're still kicking - was about to send out a search party. Oh, the joys of townhouse living huh? Sorry, can't help with your problem - can only agree about the dynamite, or maybe an uzi (they're cheap in FA aren't they?). Neighbours can make or break you I'm afraid. We live on a 3/4 acre plus lot and the guy next door has a drum kit set up in a tin shed on his yard and likes to have a bash at it when he gets drunk - which is late at night or early mornings - and I end up bashing on his wall yelling and taking my life in my hands hoping he stops without resorting to violence. Lucky so far! If you saw him and his pals you'd understand my apprehension. Anyway it's been a while and I haven't seen him around - he might be in jail or somewhere worse (I'm rooting for the latter) and the peace has been broken only by the woompa wumpa from our subwoofer. Heh heh heh - that'll teach 'em. Anyway, I feel for Mer and yourself with the neighbour problem and hope a solution is found and life gets back to normal for you soon. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3737 Registered: May-04 | The New York Times: May 16, 2005 Feeling No Pain By BOB HERBERT Go, geezers! Who among the teenyboppers shrieking for the Rolling Stones during their first American tour in June 1964 could have possibly imagined that some of their grandchildren would be shrieking for the Stones with the same levels of delirium in 2005, more than 40 years later? Mick Jagger's mug may have the look of a petrified fielder's mitt, but 25-year-old Laurin Mack of Middleburg, Va., still thinks he's the sexiest man on the planet. "I realize he's as old as my dad," she said, "but it's like a chemical reaction. He was probably born sexy." When the Stones first came to the states (four months after the Beatles), the Watusi and the monkey were big dances, Barry Goldwater embodied the hopes of the Republican Party, and John Kennedy had been dead less than a year. Bill Clinton and George W. Bush were both 17. "It was the first time we went to Omaha that I really understood how heavy it could get," said Keith Richards in an oral history compiled by the Canadian writer Alan Lysaght. "We were just sitting around drinking whiskey and Coke out of little cups before we went on and the cops walked in and said, 'What's in that cup?' " Richards replied, "Whiskey, sir." A cop said, "You can't drink that here; it's a public place. Throw it down the drain." Richards said, "No." When he looked up, Richards recalled, a loaded pistol was pointed at his head. Three of the current Stones were on that tour - Jagger and Richards, who are now 61, and Charlie Watts, who will be 64 in 21/2 weeks. Joking about their ages has proved irresistible. The Daily News came up with titles for new songs they might consider playing on their upcoming tour, including "(I Can't Get No) Metamucil" and "Let's Take a Nap Together." A young Times employee was astonished to learn that Richards is old enough to have been evacuated with his family during the bombing of London by the N@zis in World War II. You could get a ticket to a Stones concert in 1964 for two or three dollars. They didn't have a huge hit record and were pretty widely viewed as a rowdy, unkempt imitation of the Beatles. Forget 2005 (and its top ticket price of $453). They seemed unlikely to survive until 1965. But while no one would have guessed that the Stones were 21st-century bound, the essential ingredients for their longevity were already in place. They were decent musicians and they put on a great show. The main attraction was Jagger's manic magnetism. Short, skinny and 21, he was a cross between a rooster and a lightning bolt. The Stones were fun. The whole key to the Stones was that they were masters of make-believe. They played at being blues musicians. They gleefully marketed themselves as the outrageous, anarchic alternative to the Beatles, when in fact, as Richards noted in the oral history, the Beatles "were the same kind of blokes as us." Now, in the latest of their incarnations, they are charming, aged delinquents playing their former selves. The Stones really did love the blues, and they promoted many of the old blues masters. But the Stones' own music was a different story. They took the blues and wrung out the grief and sadness until all that was left in most cases was the fun. (My father would have said they took out all the vitamins.) When the Stones sang, "It's too much pain and too much sorrow," they sounded like the happiest guys in the world. "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" sounds like the temporary disappointment of a frat boy on an off night. While entertaining, those kinds of pieces are a long way from the sound and feel of Robert Johnson singing, "Li'l girl, my life seem so misery," or Muddy Waters begging, "Baby, please don't go." The Stones learned enough from the blues to lift their best work above the level of the rock 'n' roll mainstream, and the rest was pretty much unadulterated fun. It's been working for them for more than 40 years. "You don't find bands like that anymore," said Brendan Burke, a 22-year-old Stones fan who graduated last year from New York University. Their age, he said, doesn't bother him at all. On a hunch, I asked him what he thought of as the age when people started getting old. "Forty," he said. There was silence on the telephone. Brendan hung in there. "Forty or 45," he said. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3125 Registered: Dec-03 | I have never had the misfortune with neighbours that you describe, Larry and My Rantz. You have my sympathy. We once had a guy with a small car, living over the road, who used occasionally to make it go "jugga-jugga", like a big truck speeding over bumps, but in ten second bursts. He seemed satisfied with demonstrating what he could do. I went over to have a look one day, and his entire trunk/boot seemed to be the cabinet for a pair of 12" bass drivers, mounted in the rear parcel shelf. He obviously enjoyed the sound of heavy machinery. Perhaps he was nostalic for a former job operating a pile driver. I think the broadcast thumping is at, or close to, the resonant frequency of the car or room in which the sub is located. There is another social role for music, not discussed here so far, probably: marking out territory. I have noticed this in shared workplaces and the like. It is taste fascism: "either you like what we all like, or you go somewhere else". It usually works. From the other side, it spoils musical enjoyment, having to worry about whether you are bothering people. I am so relieved our apartment seems to have no neighbours within earshot. Maybe they are fuming, quietly. The first-floor "listening room" forms a bridge over empty space, and entrace to a parking lot. I do not know who is above, and to one side. They do not complain, that's all I know! When we lived in the Bay Area in a timber-frame apartment, we had no hifi, but were quietly watching TV one night, on a small TV receiver, when the people upstairs phoned to ask us to turn it down. Amazing. I was unable to determine what was, to them, an acceptable level. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1064 Registered: Oct-04 | MR - thank you, sir, for your sympathy! Sigh. I'm going to try talking with the guy again - he does seem reasonable, if dull-witted. Should have kept the boat, so I could anchor far, far away from loud-folk! Double sigh. Soon as I win the lottery, we're outta here!! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1065 Registered: Oct-04 | John A. - congrats so far, sir, in not having in-your-face neighbors! Mer and I are still looking for a house in a neighborhood populated by only creative folk. I know - fat chance! (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1848 Registered: Aug-04 | John, Ah, the cars with the huge subs and mega-watt amps pumping out earth shaking notes burn tyres around the roundabout a few hundred metres down the hill from our home almost each and every night. You can hear the roar of their open mufflers fade off as they drive away through our village past the police station where the patrol cars sit silent and forever awaiting some action in the car park. Then, just as you think silence has come at last and you nestle your weary head into the cosy soft pillow, the neighbours dogs start their barking and yapping. Paradise - man I sure feel sorry for the poor people who live elsewhere! Jan, Took our then nineteen year old son to see the Stones at an open air concert sometime towards the end of the last century when we thought that would be their last world tour. They were about my age then, Jagger ran a marathon back and forth across the huge stage catwalk, Charlie Watts was seen smiling, and Ronnie and Keith smoked enough cigs to cause record pollution levels in the city. But they were amazing enertainers, the songs remained the same if not much better and they could still remember all the words on their songlist. And here I am - can't even remember the exact year without going upstairs and finding the ticket butts. Larry, A good Stones concert may help you to endure your neighbours [grin]. And if you were still on the boat you wouldn't have your NAD and 705's! SM (aka Ghia) - please drop in sometime and let us all know things are okay in your world. Sem, I am yet to listen to the other layers of my "Honky Chateau" sacd to see if the Clapton recording is evident. That is a strange one, but I know they were making both John's and his hybrid discs around the same time. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 608 Registered: Feb-04 | Had the Stones "Exile on Main Street" blasting over the weekend with the doors and windows open. None of my neighbors said a peep. Figured they were digging it as much as I was. Now if I had been blasting Mahler I'm sure I would've heard about that. Has anyone heard from Ghia/SM? It's a little worrisome that she's dropped out without so much as a farewell. Isn't the tradition of this forum to post at least one long rant before leaving... and then returning  |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1066 Registered: Oct-04 | Two Cents: Hmmmm - remind me not to move into your neighborhood. The neighbors are obviously not in tune with my music-tastes!!!! I THINK I heard some of the Stones music somewhere, but not sure. The Rockers all sound the same to me - deafening. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 610 Registered: Feb-04 | Larry, If you moved into my neighborhood, I'd be playing my Handel, Haydn, and Puccini records for you and listening to all the trashy stuff through headphones. It so happens that I don't live that far from the Altamont Speedway, where the Stones gave a concert back in the early 70's and had the bright idea to hire the Hell's Angels to act as security guards. They were a little zealous in their roles and ended up killing one of the concertgoers. To quote Sir Mick (hasn't he been knighted?), "Hey, it's only rock 'n' roll, but I like it!" Yes, I do. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1849 Registered: Aug-04 | "The Rockers all sound the same to me - deafening." Larry - you missed the best years of OUR lives [grin]. All right Larry - try John Pizzarelli's "Knowing You" a pure DSD SACD from Telarc. You'll like this one - Surely? Two Cents What is one man's trash can be another man's treasure :-) |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3739 Registered: May-04 | " They were about my age then ... " Uh, how much older are they than you now? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1850 Registered: Aug-04 | They were then about the age I am now - and that was old! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1851 Registered: Aug-04 | Trouble is I think I am older than Mick regardless of his age! |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 320 Registered: Feb-04 |  |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1067 Registered: Oct-04 | MR & 2C - sorry, wasn't aware that I'd labeled Rock as "trash," though some of the comments would appear to indicate that I may have done that. Nope - I don't consider well-performed Rock as trash - though I admit I have no love for it. The "music" the kids next door play is, well, I'm not sure what it is - mostly just bass. Thumpa-thump seems to be it with I guess some melody? I do know that the guy-mope put big speakers in his car, and the ONLY thing that plays there is BIG bass notes! I don't get it. Just BASS. That's it. . . Am I missing something important here? And Mr. Rantz, sir - I, uh, well, ahem, that is, I seem to have missed most of my life - one way or another. Tried to catch up the other day, but got tired, and took a nap, thus missing even more of my life! (grin) (grin) |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 468 Registered: Mar-04 | My Rantz, "Sem, I am yet to listen to the other layers of my "Honky Chateau" sacd to see if the Clapton recording is evident. That is a strange one, but I know they were making both John's and his hybrid discs around the same time." When you do, please let me know what you find. This is most strange. BTW, knowing your fondness for guitar blues, I think you'd like the Albert King & Stevie Ray Vaughan 'In Session' SACD I recently got. Though its stereo only, there is some cookin' blues being played. It was recorded back in the early 80's for Canadian TV, I believe. The between-songs banter was (thankfully) left intact and the recording is all the better for it. Thus far I've only listened to it during a 5 hour car trip, so when I have a chance to sit and *really* listen to it I'll post a review. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1852 Registered: Aug-04 | John S Who gave you my photo? LOL! And sometimes I sure need starting up. Larry, Yes, I don't understand the big bass fascination these car hoons have - surely there is something else in there but I am yet to hear it also - maybe subliminal messages or something. They spend fortunes on the biggest amps and speakers - but for what? Sem, I have forgotten to check that sacd every time I have sat and listened to our music since you mentioned the problem. I'll try to remember tomorrow. Now, what is it I have to remember again? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1853 Registered: Aug-04 | Sem, I remembered: Elton stars on all layers of my Honky Chateau sacd. You might have a collectors item there in 20 yrs or so [grin] |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 321 Registered: Feb-04 | Yes, I don't understand the big bass fascination these car hoons have - surely there is something else in there but I am yet to hear it also - maybe subliminal messages or something. They spend fortunes on the biggest amps and speakers - but for what? The obvious answer is they want to pissoff old dogs. Damned effective, too. If memory serves, Honky Chateau (1972) was the first time I saw an album credit for Jean-Luc Ponty. "Hoons"...great word. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2456 Registered: Dec-03 | Glad to see we have a new old dog, welcome John s. Just checkin in, Nice to see the dogs are still barkin. I got some stuff to add to tube talk! |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 469 Registered: Mar-04 | "I remembered: Elton stars on all layers of my Honky Chateau sacd. You might have a collectors item there in 20 yrs or so [grin]" My Rantz, Thanks for checking that out for me. Perhaps you're correct, it may someday be a collectors item. Just like all those early Beatles albums I wish I still had!! John S. "If memory serves, Honky Chateau (1972) was the first time I saw an album credit for Jean-Luc Ponty." You are correct. Jean-Luc Ponty is indeed credited on Honky Chateau. I noticed that for the first time last week while listening to it, (and Eric Clapton and friends). |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1854 Registered: Aug-04 | Sem, I heard the SRV/King CD quite a while back - great stuff. Both artists are on my 'best blues' list. My other recommnedation is Clapton's 461 Ocean Boulevard SACD while the sound is nothing short of excellent the titles are (imho) better than the "Slowhand & Lalya" SACD re-releases and it has an three excellent bonus blues tracks. John S "Hoons" - I don't know the origin of the word, but it's been used here since the day dot to describe idiots in cars. Kegger, Yes - still the odd bark or two from the OD's but it seems there has not been too much input lately. Maybe we're all getting TOO old! All, Having the B&W's all around has made a significent improvemnet to our surround system and they (the 602's) are marvellous for stereo as well (did I say stereo?) anyway, the new stands for the rear 602's (to match the fronts) should arrive today or tomorrow then that's it - no more audio hardware for me for a long while. . . . or forever is WAF is taken into account, though I must say Mrs Rantz has been very supportive and appreciates the musical enjoyment all the gear has provided. The Denon/Marantz/B&W/Ricter combo is proving to be a wonderfully musical group. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1855 Registered: Aug-04 | Speaker stand for 602's as previously mentioned shown below. These stands, while having fillable supports (and sectioned for speaker cable), are very heavy and made sturdy with large adjustable floor spikes. The brand is Gecko (http://www.geckoproducts.com.au) for those interested.  |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3129 Registered: Dec-03 | Cool, MR. Nice flowport! |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1128 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, Is it dimpled? I can't tell from the photo. LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3130 Registered: Dec-03 | The man who was UK Minister of Defence, until recently, is named Geoff Hoon. Apt. Whilst driving, I watch out for Hoons, but always give way to a Galloway. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1857 Registered: Aug-04 | Of course it's dimpled - Isn't your flowport dimpled? If you haven't got dimpled flowports you haven't lived. LOL! Re: the stands - the picture doesn't do them justice. Seems the distrubutors aren't getting this model made anymore and now I'm on a country wide hunt hoping someone has a pair left in stock or on demo so I can get a matching pair for the new speakers. I wouldn't be so concerned except they are very sturdy, well priced and - they look so damn good too! I wonder about you guys - I think in future I'll keep all flowports covered appropriately. [grin] |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1130 Registered: Dec-03 | I don't have to worry about dimpled or not, as I have no flowport. What should I do now? LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1858 Registered: Aug-04 | Rick, For Petes sake, stay away from sharp objects! Phew - LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1131 Registered: Dec-03 | I remember seeing an ad or commercial for a creme or ointmint that would clear up those dimples..................Oh well! Have have you been my friend? I haven't been around the forum much lately. I'm too busy trying to pull off this Florida move. I'm getting closer every day. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1861 Registered: Aug-04 | Rick Have been okay, thanks. Hope you and yours are fine also. I noticed your absence recently and was about to notify the coast guard. So, does this Florida move signify a retirement for Mr Barnes? |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1132 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, Retirement?????? LOL! I wish. I'm going to have to grind it out for another few years like most people. I'll just be in a position to throttle way back on the work, and enjoy the family a little more. And no more %a#>FF*# snow! I can't wait. So when are you coming to Disney World? We've decided on the Orlando area. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1862 Registered: Aug-04 | Rick, Okay, so no retirement just yet. When we win lotto and go on our world trip we'll be sure to take in your part of the world - perhaps we guys can go gator hunting down in the 'glades - hire a big airboat? LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1133 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, How about we just relax in a nice soft lounge chair and enjoy a cold one? That I will look forward to my friend. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1863 Registered: Aug-04 | Rick, What no croc hunting - no big guns, knives in mouths, grenades, camo gear, face grease, netting and ammo belts etc? Thank Eric - relaxing in a nice soft lounge chair with cold one and good company is much more my style - along with hi-res surround music of course (gotta stay on thread), but hey friend, if it has to be a stereo Jolida driving Spendors then life really isn't too bad at all. Happy house hunting in Orlando old mate! |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1134 Registered: Dec-03 | Thank you again my friend. Good health and wishes to you and yours. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3747 Registered: May-04 | I received this email from SM: "I'm doing fine...just busy as hell. I have been consumed with work (on the clock), landscaping, and studying to get my Microsoft Systems Engineer certification updated (required for job but studying is OFF the clock). I passed one of the tests today but have four more to pass over the next several weeks. Hope all the old dogs are doing well! Will check in to the forum soon but tell everyone I said hello." There you go. She said hello! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1068 Registered: Oct-04 | Rick: Huh? Y'all decided on the Orlando area? OK, trying to catch up on all the postings here, and was glad you're coming down. Orlando is much more of a "big city" setting than is Naples, and thus there's lots more to do, see, and spend. Just be careful of the traffic! Brutal! Let us know when and where you "land," OK? Rantz, sir - nice stands, and the speakers just glow, don't they? Mine might, too, except Mer won't allow a "grills-off" experience. I think she is to shy for any kind of nu-dity, whether it be human or electronic? Hmmm. . . . Your stands sorta parallel mine, except that I have tempered glass bases. Mine are British, but I can never remember the name. Love mine, as I'm sure you do yours! As to the car-bass. Sigh. Was awakened RUDELY at 6:45 a.m. today - WHOOOMMMPPPHHHH! What the heck? Well, it seems that the mope next door turned on his car-"stereo" and had the volume up full for a few seconds. Mercifully, he turned it down to mere dish-shaking levels as he drove away to work. Sigh. At least we have reached an impasse regarding sound levels on their in-house stereo - so far. . . More anon. . . |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1135 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, Thanks. I was offered a great job with an Orlando based company. My daughter, age 6, is thrilled to be moving to Orlando. I have lived in New York, Houston, and Los Angeles, so how bad can the Orlando traffic be? LOL! I will keep you informed as we progress. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3132 Registered: Dec-03 | Congratulations, Rick! Who says that old dogs get stuck in their ways? Will be away for a week. In Spain. All the best to all. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1069 Registered: Oct-04 | John A. - Spain! Always wanted to go there. There's hope yet. . . have a great trip. Rick: (chuckle) UR so right, my friend - how bad can Orlando be re LA, etc. Hmmm. . .I think the problem is that we EXPECT traffic to be better than it is where the Great Mouse roams? Yep. Anyway - good for you. We welcome you to Carl Hiaasen's State of Madness! Repeat after me: "there is no snow in Florida." Nope. Nada. (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1136 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, LOL! Thanks again. Florida sounds like the kind of place where I'll blend right in. I'll keep you informed. Best wishes to you and Mer. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1870 Registered: Aug-04 | Rick, Yes congratulations for the great new job - I know you'll make a geat Mickey Mouse. LOL! Jan, Thanks for the S.M. update. Good to hear all is okay with her. If you read this Ghia good luck with the tests. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 281 Registered: Jan-05 | Hello Old Dogs! Congrats Rick! Hope all works out as you hope. Down the road, if you miss the 4 seasons but wish for a milder version than NY offers you are welcome to come to the Carolinas. MR, thanks! The next few weeks will be stressful as I try to stay motivated to study. Congrats on the new B&W's. In my world, you would only had to buy one pair. Sorry...couldn't resist. ;-) Got the Mac/Maggies reconnected a few weeks ago. Listening time has been few and far between but sounds wonderful when I do get a chance to listen. Still no subwoofer though..... John, Spain. SM, envy. Enjoy! |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1137 Registered: Dec-03 | Rantz, Thanks. Close but no cigar. I got the job for Goofy! LOL! SM, Great to hear from you, and glad all is well. Thanks for the Carolinas invitation, but have been there, and bought the T-Shirt. I lived in a lovely garden spot called Ft. Bragg for a lot of years. I think it's still a federal felony for me to return to the state. LOL! But thanks again for the wishes. John, Have a great trip to Spain, but be careful. I recall hearing something about the rain there. Best to bring the umbrella, just to be safe. LOL! Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3759 Registered: May-04 | I heard the rain in Spain only falls at the airport. Once you're off the plane there's no problem. |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1138 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks for reminding me Jan. The rain in Spain falls only at the airport. I'll have to write that down. Do you think birds that live at an airport suffer from low self esteem? I have always wondered about that. |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1873 Registered: Aug-04 | Rick, You wonder about the strangest things. LOL! But to answer your question - I would think no. While they might envy the airliners for height and speed, they are quite proud of their much shorter landings and thrifty fuel economy. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3800 Registered: May-04 | Not to mention they get to crap on the planes when no one is looking. The reverse can't be said. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3801 Registered: May-04 | OHMYGOD!!!!! The eternal question: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/138641.html |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1139 Registered: Dec-03 | THE PRESSURE IS ON GENTLEMEN! We better get this one right, or we're DOOMED. All of our hopes and dreams are on the line. How do you think we should proceed???????????? |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1880 Registered: Aug-04 | Yeah, I saw that one and I thought to myself: "Self, I see it, but I don't believe it!" I anyone cares to respond to look4sun, be gentle with him. He needs kindness. [grin] |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3803 Registered: May-04 | He needs to be slapped! |
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Gold Member Username: MyrantzThe Land Dow... Post Number: 1882 Registered: Aug-04 | Okay then LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3821 Registered: May-04 | 1525: Thomas Munzer, millinerian leader, Anabaptist communist, rebel against the authority of the church and all official representatives of God on earth, executed. 1647: Execution of Achsah Young, first witch known to be executed in America. Massachusetts, of course. 1818: Birth of Amelia Bloomer, American social reformer and women's rights advocate. 1819: Birth of Julia Ward (Howe), abolitionist, internationalist, women's movement campaigner, and founder of Mother's Day as a feminist general strike against male waging of war. Not much else happened in the world on this day until: 1923: Nobel Peace Prize winner, corporate consultant, and unrepetant war criminal Henry Kissinger born, Germany. Jeez! Could've done woihout that last one! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3133 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, all. No rain at all. Good to see you're back, SM! It was hell: good food, sunshine, nice interesting meeting, all that. Must go back for holiday one day. I finally dumped MS PPt, in favour of KeyNote. It feels good. Hope you don't mind! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3141 Registered: Dec-03 | I have joined the tube school, courtesy of a PrimaLuna. See Rick's thread Tube Talk. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 3866 Registered: May-04 | 1431: French military leader Joan of Arc burned at the stake. 1741: Thirteen black men are burned at the stake, and 17 black men, two white men and two white women are hanged, for their roles in planning a slave revolt in New York City. Today is Memorial Day in the US of A. This is the day we set aside to honor those who have defended this country since 1775 when we took on those boorish Brits and made nice with the French. It is a day when we pay particular honor to what those battles have given us and what they have taken away. This year the month of May alone has taken away over 60 more who died serving in the US armed services. When I was young there were always parades and ceremonies to make Memorial Day something more than just the marker for the beginning of summer vacation. There aren't many parades on Memorial Day any more. We reserve parades and speechs for the sports teams which bring everlasting glory and temporary cash to our beloved city. Those people who are fortunate enough to have the day off spend their time and money inside with those people at the car dealer or the furniture store who spend Memorial Day just like any other day of the year. Then they go home and on their new TV watch the President lay a wreath on the memorial at Arlington Cemetary. Some veterans will show up in their uniforms and some widows will still shed a tear. Some children will visit the grave of the father they never had a chance to know. Tomorrow will be another day. Tomorrow we'll check the ads to see if we could have saved a few more dolars today. Today is Memorial Day in the US of A. Today is the day we honor those who have served our country. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3152 Registered: Dec-03 | Amen to that. It is the same here. I met a fellow in a pub a few months ago. He is 80. He carried a letter from a friend he last saw alive on June 8 1940, in Normandy. I later saw the words he used, but written, with a shakey hand, on a single playing card, laid at the Cenotaph, amongst the wreaths. "Today is the tomorrow you paid for yesterday". |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1149 Registered: Dec-03 | My thanks to all who remember and care, even if it's only a little......................... |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 3162 Registered: Dec-03 | I do, Rick. The date I mentioned should have been June 6 1944. I was getting several things mixed up, there. |
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Marc C Unregistered guest | Hello All, Just checking in. If I may add a few greats on the guitarist list: Joe Pass (jazz - phenomenally smooth - one of BB King's heroes - shame on you, Old Dogs) Albert King - the man who cut Hendrix to pieces Alan Holdsworth Peter Green Ronnie Montrose (for rock) Duane Eddy Charlie Christian An honorable mention to the mighty Chuck Berry Many speak of Robert Johnson, and his stuff is...but in their one (and maybe only) interview together, BB King and John Lee Hooker deferred to Lonnie Johnson. Taken from one much less together - that's Gospel (so to speak). Most painful song I've heard yet,"Jailhouse Moan" by WC Handy I believe. Gotta love those blues titles... Good to see Old Dogs still barking. Sorry about your tree, Rick B. Best, Marc C |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bNew York USA Post Number: 1151 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks and good to hear from you. |
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