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New member Username: MafustoPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-05 | I'm a newbie and have been looking for great quality speakers for the money. 6mo later I ended up whole heartily choosing B&W's for the price and sound quality. I got two 600s3's and two 602s3 with a Lcr60 center. For base I have a velodyne DSP 4000r. My Onkyo TXSR702 sounds great with my speaker selection. My question is I've been hearing about Axiom speakers and been told I could have saved $500 bucks for something better sounding. I'm impressed with my B&W's and find it hard to believe Axiom's are better. I'm curious if the Axiom junkies are smoking crack or do they speak the truth about the epic master 175 series? All you B&W and Axiom experts please clue me in. Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1271 Registered: Jan-05 | Well..... Since you already own the B&Ws.... I wouldnt worry about it. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 811 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm with Paul on this one. There is no way that I would be envious of the Axiom owners with the B&W's that you have. The Axioms are fine speakers and so are the B&W's and given the choice I would take the B&W's anytime. It appears as though you are happy with the sound of your system so you should probably just stop and put down that credit card before you become one of us (just kidding). |
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New member Username: MafustoColumbus, Ohio Post Number: 2 Registered: Jun-05 | Thanks Paul and Art Kyle. I was second guessing myself for a minute. You're both right I stand by what I have so what does it mattter? I guess I was getting worried I forgot key players in my research before I went with B&W's. Thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 73 Registered: May-05 | WHAT???? Paul and Art agreed on something. WOW, did everyone check to see if the sun came out today? LOL and ROTFL too much. Even as a relative newbie myself, I'm with both Art and Paul, if you like em, keep em. |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1276 Registered: Jan-05 | Eventhough we like to disagree on some things, we agree on plenty of topics. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 156 Registered: Apr-04 | FTM after owning AXIOMS, you have definately made the right choice. People on that message board are cult like but at least loyal to their brand. They are good but you have much better. Most of those owners never listen to anything else believing there is no other! BUT.......speakers are a topic that could start wars and is very individualized. The problem is with AXIOM being an Internet based company, most people do not use the return policy and never compare to anything else. For some reason I did and sold them! I will never buy without listening ever again. |
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Bronze Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 78 Registered: May-05 | Paul, I know, I just couldn't resist having some fun, unfortunately at yours and Art's expense. No harm intended though, "CV MAN" - I think I've just created a new superhero, no? |
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucksPost Number: 1290 Registered: Jan-05 | LOL....I was talking about eddie, and not you. Im still not sure if we agree on anything at this point in time. |
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New member Username: MafustoColumbus, Ohio Post Number: 3 Registered: Jun-05 | Danman! You're the first person I've heard from who owned Axioms and decided to go with something else. Thanks for your input. I don't feel as though I'm part of the B&W cult due to my lack of speaker knowledge and the fact my investment was low compared to the cult leaders in this forum. My goal was to get my monies worth without suffering from buyer's remorse. Thanks to everyone who responded. I truly believe I got every pennies worth in sound quality. As the saying goes "You can't go wrong with B&W's" It's nice to know I could bring Paul and ArtKyle together on something. I should get a newbie choice award or something....LOL Viva B&W! |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 160 Registered: Apr-04 | I agree that your B&W's are a fantastic speaker and for your money, you got better than AXIOM. I am not saying that AXIOM is no good as they are very good BUT like I said, many buy them without knowing any better. Go to a Hi-Fi shop somewhere and spend the day experimenting and listening. Speakers are the biggest influence in a stereo system. Amps and CD players are your source material but everything from NAD to YBA and NAIM is only as good as your speakers and that is where each individual has to be their own judge. AXIOM owners are religious and want everyone to think that their sound is the only good one but you have to remain objective. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jorge59Rio de JaneiroBrasil Post Number: 21 Registered: May-05 | FTM I'm a newbie too and my "consumer dream" was having a B&W speaker set, just like what you have. Where I live, B&W are probably the most reputable brand available and the best I was able to audition (I loved the 600 S3 even for mains and I was astonished by the sound of the 705). Then, I found this forum and started reading about Paradigms, Klipischs, Velodynes, Asperions, Axioms, Ascends, SVS, Hsus and so on. Ed, the Ascend enthousiast who has given me good advice in this forum, introduced me to them and I started reading their reviews in webforums. Someone in the ascendforum has the opinion that the CBM-170 matches the quality of the B&W 705 (except for the lows) for about one fourth of the price (check my thread there). As we use a sub, the lows "but" becomes irrelevant in a 5.1 set. In other words, you get B&W 700 line quality by the price of the 600 S3 cost (the 601/602/603 are obviously more expensive than the 600). Similar situation with the Ascend 340 center to the B&W LCR 60. That's why I'm willing to take the risk of buying the Ascends without listening before. Anyway, I'm sure you have a superb speaker system, so do not suffer from buyer's remorse. In your place, based on the reviews found here, I would wonder about the Onkyo, but, if you are satisfied, just enjoy. |
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Bronze Member Username: RiffmanPost Number: 23 Registered: Apr-04 | Many that post on the Axiom board treat an expenditure over $1K as a huge sin, so yes, they are religious. hahahahhaha. I have heard and am getting some Tyler Acoustics speakers to replace my M60s. There is a reason Axiom speakers are inexpensive. They simply cannot compete with higher priced speakers that are, indeed, better. |
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New member Username: MafustoColumbus, Ohio Post Number: 5 Registered: Jun-05 | Jorge You mentioned something about Onkyo as being questionable. I've been trying to tweak my system and I'm getting kind of frustrated. I was happy till I realized my volume was turned up to 60 every time I watched a movie or around 55 to listen to music. The volume only goes to 100 so I cranked it to the max. Much to my surprise I felt cheated. Not by the speakers but by the receiver. I'm losing 30 plus of volume numbers. Where did they go? I was under the impression that when you turn up the volume from zero you're suppose to hear something by the time the volume reaches 3. I have to turn my volume up to about 19 before I hear sound. Is this normal or am I missing a setting somewhere? I thought maybe you would know or have heard such issues with Onkyo. The receiver is 100x7 and is model txsr702. I'm trying to call Onkyo support right now. Maybe 100x7 really means 25x7watts. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 916 Registered: Mar-05 | > I'm trying to call Onkyo support right now. Maybe 100x7 really means 25x7watts. In Onkyo's case that's about right...huge paper tiger! See below: http://geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm?20055 |
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New member Username: MafustoColumbus, Ohio Post Number: 6 Registered: Jun-05 | Edster922, Nice find. I didn't see my receiver but can assume by the trend that it's probably not me or my failure at tweaking the impedance. Thanks for the info BTW I'm still on hold grrr! I may return the Onkyo???? What will I do after the return? |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 918 Registered: Mar-05 | Get an HK refurb from Harman Direct on eBay, depends on your budget. HKs are known for CONSERVATIVE power ratings, so they're kind of the anti-Onkyo, lol. If you have $700 to spend I'd look at the Marantz 8400s selling on uBid.com right now with full Marantz warranty...a $1300 retail receiver like that can't be bad. |
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New member Username: MafustoColumbus, Ohio Post Number: 8 Registered: Jun-05 | Edster922, What's this NAD thing I read you getting ecstatic about? I wish to enjoy such fruits in my quest for primo sound. |
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Anonymous | Out of curiousity, does the Onkyo not go loud enough for your tastes? You stated it sounds good earlier, and that you only drive it to 60/100 for movies. Whats the big deal? FWIW the TX-SR501 (rated 65wpc) is good for 47 watts according to that and it's doubtful your receiver is worse. Keep in mind though that every doubling of power (say up to 94 watts) would only yield a 3dB increase in volume as well. |
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New member Username: MafustoColumbus, Ohio Post Number: 9 Registered: Jun-05 | Anonymous, I have a great room 30x40ft with 20ft ceilings. With my open floor plan my theater system serves as a fill the whole house with music system. I've already put the volume to max and found my speakers are not getting enough power (so it seems). I'm thinking with a better receiver my speakers will get the power they need to work at their optimal level (otherwise I'm cheating myself). Of course I could be wrong since I'm new but seems like bad math to me when I run out of volume control. Things were cool when I was sitting chilling watching a movie or listening to music in the same room. I started noticing while in my loft that I ran out of volume control and it didn't seem right so I started tweaking and ran into a wall. |
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Anonymous | Keep in mind though that in terms of absolute volume, none of those receivers will give you more than a few dB. It might be a little cleaner at higher volumes, but I wouldn't expect the world. |
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New member Username: MafustoColumbus, Ohio Post Number: 10 Registered: Jun-05 | Anonymous, Is it possible to wreck speakers by under powering them? I thought I read that somewhere. Ya know it seems like to me that I have a Ford GT (B&W's) with a 4cl or worse a Ford GT and stuck driving 35mph for the rest of my life. Ok maybe that is a stretch but I'm free wheeling here. Thanks for the info I like the 94watts = would only produce a yield of 3dB. Good to know I may not get much more even if I try. |
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Anonymous | Yes it is possible to damage speakers with too little power. However, this is easy enough to avoid. If you hear distortion, turn the volume down until you don't anymore. Another thing to keep in mind is that B&W's are not party speakers. Most people don't generally buy them to rock the house. There are significantly cheaper options better suited to that task. |
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Bronze Member Username: MafustoColumbus, Ohio Post Number: 11 Registered: Jun-05 | Ah good point which my original intent was not to use my B&W's as party speakers. I just thought if I add power here and do a little something there a dual purpose would be served. Plus it still feels like I'm cheating my speakers a little. See this is why I joined this forum. Hard to get off track when people keep telling me to stay on target! I didn't know distortion could be had with too little power. I thought only too much power could cause distortion. If you see a HI-FI 101 class sign me up because I need it. :-) |
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Anonymous | Don't see any Marantz on ubid. They must have taken it out early today. |
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Anonymous | Just enjoy your system FTM, that's what it's all about. As for Hi-Fi 101, look at something like www.audioholics.com . They aren't perfect, not that anyone is, but they have loads of useful information. I'm sure others have sites they refer to for information. |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 920 Registered: Mar-05 | that's strange, the ubid Marantz 8400 is no more... FTM, if your Onkyo 702 has pre-outs on the back you can always add some vintage NAD amp plus pre-amp to enjoy really good 2-channel music. Otherwise I would go for a refurb HK. It's not only a question of wpc but more importantly the quality of the power which you cannot see in specs. Onkyos are also known to have an infamous protect mode that kicks in whenever you push them to reference levels---it says a lot about the poor quality of the electrical components inside. |
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Anonymous | Have a link for more info on that Edster? |
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Silver Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 925 Registered: Mar-05 | OK, I'll try to find one when I get the chance...would require probably a good hour of searching through various audio forums' archives. However as a former owner of an Onkyo 601 I have to add that I was very dissatisfied with its musical performance especially at high volumes---sounded kind of dead and hollow, very little bass. |
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Anonymous | Not to discount your experience, but FTM has stated that his receiver sounds "great". |
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Unregistered guest | I am looking for some advise from you experts. I have a great room that is about 25' x 40' with 20' ceilings. I am looking to replace my old wore out DCM600 speakers with something better in the $500/pair price range. I have a Harman Kardon AVR120 receiver. I have been considering the JBL E100's or SDAT SB-E880's. These will be primarily for music cd listening only. Any expert advise out there would be greatly appreciated... |
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Silver Member Username: Joe_cOakwood, Ga Post Number: 458 Registered: Mar-05 | those jbl's would fill that room up nicely for that price range. |
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Unregistered guest | Thanks Joseph. Are these speakers a good value at $400/pair? Is there something else in this price range that is better? Is the Harman Kardon AVR120 pushing sufficient power for these speakers and room size? |
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Bronze Member Username: MafustoColumbus, Ohio Post Number: 12 Registered: Jun-05 | Thanks everyone, I finally got through to Onkyo support. They told me the receiver is not working correctly and should be returned before it causes damage to my speakers. Looks like I'll be trying a AVR2805 Denon next. This was the receiver I auditioned the B&W's with in the first place. -FM- |