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daveL Unregistered guest | Hi, I was wondering if any of you would know which amp I should get to use with a decent (270gbp pro-ject) record player I have just purchased. The budget I will have is going to be about 250gbp, but ideally I will spend a lot less (more like 150-200 if possible). I'm not big big on sound as much as some are and I am sure I would be happy with something fairly basic, only I want to be careful to get one that has a decent phono as I hear many are crap. From looking on sales sites, I get the impression that the rotel (around 250) is the best thing availible for a man with a 250 budget. This has MM (moving magnet?) phono, but then so does the cheaper marantz (around 140gbp- the lowest priced of their integrated models) Then again, this marantz integrated has a remote too, so it's gotta be very basic? (I don't particulary want a remote and would prefer all my moneys going into the quality of the amp if you know what I mean, considering I'm trying to get one for a small price tag) I don't know what MM (moving magnet) means but I am presuming it is a better sounding kind of phono imput than a regular one and I should go for one with this. Then there is that rotel pre-amp (with built in power amp???) for just a bit more than 250. That actually has an MM/something imput (I forget now). Obviously people who know the world of phono understand.. but I'm at a real loss even after trying to become learned through google searches. The rotel 'pre-amp, with built in power amp which you can activate'... That basically means it is an integrated amp then?? Anyway, Sorry. Just if anyone had any suggestions on which to get with a view to decent phono and a budget of around 250 it would be much appreciated. Maybe somebody knows where the cheapest decent phono one begins (marantz?)- and whether rotel's integrated really is amazing, and best value out of everything around for the 250price. Whether the Rotel pre-amp, with built in power amp, is a much better buy that the rotel integrated for just that 30 more (279gbp) etc etc Again, Thanks very much for any help. It's really appreciated. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 664 Registered: Feb-05 | Rotel's integrated really is very nice. If you can swing it, that is the way to go. A pre amp with abuilt in power amp is an integrated amp. If it had a built in tuner to it would be a receiver. |
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Bronze Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 56 Registered: May-05 | I'm no phono expert by any means - I don't own one - but I saw what I think is a big mistake in your post. The MM (moving magnet) and MC (I believe moving coil?) are very different from one another and are not interchangable. You use the different types - some phono sections have an external switch to use either one - depending on either the type of cartridge or turnatble you have. I'm pretty sure that this is determined by the cartridge, but I'm not positive (it may be the turntable itself) Let's assume MM or MC is determined by the cartridge (again, I don't have a record player). If you have an MM cartdidge, you can't/shouldn't play that on an MC input. You should make sure that the cartridge and type of phono preamp section of the integrated amp coorespond to each other. |
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daveL Unregistered guest | Thanks very much to you both. I think I will get a Rotel Art. I'm hearing so much about them being the best in the price range. It seems a wise match too (with the record player I have bought costing the same/and probably being the equivelant in quality kind of thing). Either that or a Marantz. Rotel is MM phono as are several of the marantz models. That's great the way you informed me of that MM thing Stu (I really think you are correct now that you've said it- it's ringing some bell in my damaged brain). I may have just gone and bought something without MM. The record player I have is an MM cartridge project 2. It's been discontinued now (I ordered it months back and it's just been sitting in it's box for ages-after I assembled it- which was a bit of a ghastly job itself!!). It's pretty silly of me but I just haven't got round to geting the funds organsed to buy the amp yet (I have speakers) . Luckily I saved this web page from a seperate site that offered a lot of the turntables specs (unlike the place I bought it from) - and that's where I've just refferred to, learning it is definately MM orofton cartridge. I'm only 22 and never have cash. 250 was a huge amount for me to spend on a record player. It was after I got into buying records a lot a few years ago and discovered the cheap second hand piece of rubbish I had (an all in one thing from the 70's) was putting noticeable wear on them. It was a shame as it sounded cool enough. But yeh, I just went crazy and decided I was going to buy a great record player (not that 250 is a great great record player really, but to me...) Anyway, thanks again lads. I'm sure your correct Stu- and at least, if your not, I can't go wrong buying an MM phono imput integrated amp for a turntable with an MM cartridge. Cool. |
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Bronze Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 63 Registered: May-05 | You can also buy am integrated amp without a phono input - You would have to get a seperate phono pre amp though. NAD makes an inexpensive one the is supposed to sound vey good for the money. If you found a cheaper integrated without a phono input that you like better than the one you do, this may be the way to go. But if you are happy with what you're considering, than that would be better obviously. I tried listing the name of the model and the page won't allow me to!!! Can you believe that $hit!!! The model is two p's, not one - the P_-2!!! You can't even write 2 consecutive P's on this site? what is this world coming to? |
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Bronze Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 64 Registered: May-05 | Another option to consider - the NAD C320BEE with the previously mentioned seperate phono pre-amp. I don't know what the prices are over there though. I've got the 320BEE and can't recomend it enough. The Rotel you are considering is very good too though. |
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ollyb_newcastle Unregistered guest | dont suppose you would think about the legendary pioneer a400 or a400x they have phono inputs and are very cheap and they are possibily the most legendary intergrated amps ever. olly |
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Bronze Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 68 Registered: May-05 | I thought the most legendary integrated was the NAD 3020 |
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ollyb_newcastle Unregistered guest | well its review werent anywhere near as impressive as the a400 so i would say that the a400 is more "legendary" but i aint listened to the nad so i couldnt say for sure which is better. but id recommend the a400, ive got one and its better quality than most amps ive heard under £250. its amazin especially when you take its age into account. you can buy them on ebay very cheap. |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 561 Registered: Sep-04 | Dave Sounds like you're in the UK. The NAD C320BEE is a great little amp which can be had for under £200. It doesn't have a phono stage, but a really good one which I rate is the Project Phono Box for £45. You'll need an interconnect between the two. If you go to Richer Sounds they'll probably do you a deal for the lot. The Rotel RA-01 is the £250 amp you mentioned. It's another great amp but I haven't listened to its phono stage in a long time. It'll be good, just don't know if it'll be great. I know it's a stretch, but if you want something a bit special, you could look at the Rega Brio at £329. It comes with an excellent MM phono stage built in. Rega have been making turntables for over 25 years so they know their onions and the Brio is a fabulous amp, just great fun. Stu, the phono stage you're trying to remember is the NAD P/P-2 which is meant to be pretty good too, and retails for similar money to the Project Phono Box. I haven't listened to it however, soI can't recommend it too highly. I remember the P/P-1 which wasn't that great so I veer towards the Project... Also, the most legendary NAD amp is the 3020. However, the C320BEE is today's killer value amp. The BEE nomenclature is in recognition of the input of the designer who was drafted in again after twenty years or so. BEE are his initials I believe. The Pioneer A400 is junk by comparison, although it did have rave reviews and won lots of friends for some reason I cannot fathom, bright nasty thing... Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Stu_pittNYC, NY Pakistan Post Number: 103 Registered: May-05 | BEE = Bjorn Erik Edvardsen. In my opinion, the C320BEE is today's 3020. I don't mean technical stuff, I just mean it in terms as a great sounding amp for a little money. I haven't heard the P/P-2 either, but a lot of people say it sounds very good for the money. Then again, isn't that the whole NAD philosophy? |
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Micthetic Unregistered guest | I'd go for the Pioneer A400 with a decent phono pre amp to go through a line input.The Pioneer is a tremendous amp as long as you don't have shrill/overly bright ancillaries.It's phono section, especially the MC input isn't the best . |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 234 Registered: Apr-04 | My NAD C162 has all of this built in MM and MC. My next purchase is going to be a turntable. The only problem is I have no vinyl records. Do any of you know if they are still being made for todays music? I know nothing about this topic. |
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Silver Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 999 Registered: Feb-05 | New vinyl is still being pressed. In 2003 it outsold SACD and DVD-A combined. |
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Bronze Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 21 Registered: Jun-05 | The Unison Unico one the most musical amps you can get regardless of price the phono stage has a m/m and a m/c of very good quality better than most outboard phono stages up to $500 us and (and ah the magic of those tubes in the preamp section) extremely good buy.Oh and very magical with yhe Totem Arro |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 236 Registered: Apr-04 | Do you know of places to get new vinyl in Canada? Prefer it would be in Quebec! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 1011 Registered: Feb-05 | Here is one online source. http://www.musicdirect.com/ |
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Silver Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 606 Registered: Sep-04 | Danman The vinyl revival (or vinyl limp-on) is being done mainly through mail order. There are a few shops that still cater for vinyl addicts as well as quite a few second hand shops catering for older vinyl. Not all modern music is pressed on vinyl but there is enough interest in the format that a great deal of it is pressed. There is also a big resurgence in reissues from the 60s and 70s. Most mail order people will take back records if you are unhappy with them. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 248 Registered: Apr-04 | Thanks. I am interested in getting involved with this type of sound. |
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DaveL Unregistered guest | Hi again. Thanks frank (I am in the UK!!- good to at last spot one of my own- I was wondering why I had'nt come accross any yet) and everyone else who's contributed to this issue from wherever you are. Believe it or not I still haven't bought the amp. I like the idea of a pro-ject phono-preamp, seing as I have a pro-ject turntable it suddenly makes sense. I have indeed heard more praise to that good price NAD amp than any other (that and the rotel), only I had originally been a little drawn away thinking most people were praising it in regards to cd and that maybe it would'nt neccessarily be a good amp for vinyl. Pretty silly of me probably. A good amp is a good amp?? and its probably more about the phono. The only other thing that put me off was the fact that the volume/tone controls appeared to be buttons you pushed rather than turned. On closer look now of the large pictures I see I am probably wrong about this and that they are just very small turning buttons. I was just scared as I dislike from experience, stereos that have numbered volume that is controlled by pushing a button. It's probably a trick of the mind, all said, but for me it's as though you just can't locate 'the spot' with them. You know 'hit the spot'. Most likely I'm just thinking of cheap all in one systems that could never hit any spot anyway but I still think even a crap system benefits somehow from a turning volume and not a pressing one. Maybe I'm crazy. Cheers for the info about the rega there also Frank- I did not know that they had amps out for that price and will look at that. Pioneers a400 I did read many good reviews of too. I was not considering it again at first, cause it lacked the phono and It seems I was hellbent on getting one with it's own phono factory installed. I'm really gonna buy soon and I can't wait to link all these chunks of new gear Ive invested in up. It's gonna be real good. ON THE RECORD THING DANMAN: I just love my records and don't really even buy cd's (while most my music is early 80's) I don't think you can go wrong with records, but the trick is, in my eyes, to get still sealed beauties off marketplaces or ebay. www.musicstack.com www.gemm.com www.ebay.com This way you start a vinyl collection that is sweet smelling- but ,more importantly, you get the great records of the 70's 80's in a form that will be gone soon. Mint new disc and original transfer from master tape. Nothing better than hearing an early 80's record on vinyl for instance, that has been opened by you from it's original seal. If you keep it (handle it like a complete looper, or loser the foolish might call you) in mint condition you really can hear that tape in there and it's the best way to own recordings from that age ( nothing against regular cd when done well but it stands to reason if the thing was made on tape years ago it's likely to be better on original new record pressing?). Watch out with the marketplaces however (ebay judge by feedback, and sellers are generally forced into a world where clarity is demanded) as with the marketplaces (while often the even better deals go down for back-order original sealed records) descriptions aren't always very good, or worse, non-existent. A record with condition mark 'new' - does not neccessarily mean sealed (ss) with al sellers (the cover could be ruined). The small print in at least a lot of the marketplace sellers 'about us' area says stuff like - "Most our new' records are sealed, some may have cut outs or saw marks" Deletion marks are where someone (acting on behalf of the label?) has chopped the corner or- or sawed into the new cover of a still sealed record. I still fail to understand why someone can do this, but watch out for it if you like covers without rather painful to look at damage. On buying vinyl in general I think it's better you only own mint near mint or especially 'new' (that you opened yourself) As a format vinyl stands better when you only own new or great condition. Vinyl with pops gives people the cause to say 'yeh, but vinyl has crackle and pops' etc etc. That's one reason why most people thought cd was way better back in the day I think (while despite the obvious reason that there was a big plus to some with the instant access, no side changing, deteriation) the average person did'nt understand (especially when they were the standard industry product) how to care for a record- just like the average, or maybe not average I should'nt be saying, person leaves a cd on it's face you know. "It was good when it was new". People say now 'but records are noisy have crackling and popping, they suck'. Well Danman, your lp collection dosen't if you do like me and buy original ss lp's of ebay/marketplaces. I don't buy much new age music while I think it nearly all comes out on vinyl (again try ebay the week a new album is released and it's usually on there sealed I find). The question is how was it made and has owning it on vinyl just become a gimic. I don't buy 180gram records of classic music as while often they are good, thesedays they do a lot of stuff with vinyl- like make it off digital remastered files/bad dat tapes which is just horrible behviour. New age vinyl manufacturing is, in some instances going down the tubes too - just go and read some of the stuff about how your lp will be pressed at many of the new pressing plants. It's horrific. And these people are meant to be keeping vinyl alive. The things that your own fellow man says. I am very concerned about the future of vinyl. Now I'm not saying that many 180 grams of classic albums aren't from the original master tape and great AND that new lp's as 180gram arent hardcore if you like vinyl as a sound but I think vinyls more about the tape myself and that labels should state whether a new lp's been made from tape or 24-bit/dat etc as most people who like vinyl can tell when they get home. You can get most new release stuff special ordered if you ask behind the counter at a good (but mainstream) record store also . The label should have a vinyl copy to sell you if you want it but they just don't slam it back on all the shelves in numbers thesedays as they want to keep the public prepped for the whole cd/file future. Vinyl made from digital is positively ill to me. Thats why I don't buy much new music vinyl. I want gaurantees, as stated, of layback mastering to tape for the record transfer (no I'm not a purist!- I hate that word) just I feel if I wanted to hear the digitally recorded piece I'd really just have the 24-bit file over it you know. I'd rather buy that. I'm just not one of these people who thinks vinyl alone is an ultra cool sound and thats what a lot of people thesedays seem to think. It's the tape that can be heard inside it. Well, not literally inside, but you know what I mean. That's what I love most about vinyl. Anyway, what a waffler. Hopefully a few pices of that info will be of help Danman, if you can wade through. Good on ya, get your turntable on. |